Fantastic Four reboot is already screwed up...

[Logan510]

Putting aside the awful image posted by someone earlier - has anyone actually thought about the potential outcry when a Black guy goes up in flames?

 

Aside from people obsessed about race, no one is going to be upset over a non-caucasian Human Torch.

 

 

Thanks for proving my point.

 

 

 

Oh? John Byrne was vocal about his unhappiness that Sue Storm was played by a latino actress.

 

If you're going to cast aspersions, at least get it right.

[passion4comics]

I don’t think the issue here is racist. I think it’s the readers who are the purist that want the continuity of 40 years of reading to remain the same. Someone who’s read FF for 25 years expects to see on the big screen what they’ve been reading for almost three decades. Personally, I could care less. They are going to blow it again anyway.

[miraclemet]

With this coming up Im just going to sit on the Byrne message board and wait for his comment... is he even making comments any more?

 

[miraclemet]

And it certainly hurt The Avengers movie franchise to have Nick Fury be black (yes I know the Ultimate version is black, but if we are going to complain about not holding true to 25 years of continuity then we're talking about 616 accuracy right?)

 

wait let me check...

 

nope it didn't hurt them at all, cause Sam Jackson played Nick Fury like a bad mother *shut your mouth!*, and that's what mattered.

 

Captain America being black would have been a more complicated shift, since there would be obvious race implications since he was a man born in the 20s), but if Hawkeye had been black, or heck, if Iron Man had been black, as long as the actor was good in the role who cares?

 

I love RDJr as Tony Stark, but I think Jamie Fox would have been a good second choice (not saying he would have been better, but he certainly would have had a comparable amount of swagger and humor to what RDJr brought to the screen).

[fantastic_four]

Given that they've also talked to Allison Williams--daughter of Brian Williams and an actress on the HBO show "Girls"--to play Sue Storm, the likelihood of them casting Johnny Storm with a black actor is slim to none.

 

[miraclemet]

Given that they've also talked to Allison Williams--daughter of Brian Williams and an actress on the HBO show "Girls"--to play Sue Storm, the likelihood of them casting Johnny Storm with a black actor is slim to none.

 

 

Here's the article about Michael B Jordan being on the short list for Johnny Storm.

 

http://nukethefridge.com/2013/05/02/learn-who-may-play-human-torch-in-the-fantastic-four-reboot/

 

And again, I think its very easy to write in how Johnny & Sue can be brother/sister while not being blood related (one is adopted, both are adopted, foster brother or sister, etc)...

 

Also Since F4 is being directed by Josh Trank, who also directed Chronicle, which starred Michael B. Jordan I think MBJ as a very real shot for the role, and even the inside track.

[fantastic_four]

And again, I think its very easy to write in how Johnny & Sue can be brother/sister while not being blood related (one is adopted, both are adopted, foster brother or sister, etc)...

 

Also Since F4 is being directed by Josh Trank, who also directed Chronicle, which starred Michael B. Jordan I think MBJ as a very real shot for the role, and even the inside track.

 

I find it unlikely he'd change the character's blood relation. More likely would be that they end up casting two actors and actresses of the same race--so either Jordan gets it, or Williams gets it, but not both. It's all meaningless speculation for now, not worth getting worked up over.

[vaillant]

I feel like we have had this discussion before. These heroes are fictional characters. As someone just mentioned if a good actor, regardless of color, can bring our heroes to life in a way that works why wouldn't we be happy?

 

Because it doesn’t make sense to arbitrarily alter a character, even a fictional character just for the sake of it? Or for some misunderstood sense of "equity", which in fact suppresses true personality.

And because they are "fictional" one should feel free to suppress complexity, and ultimately, sense?

 

For the record, these ugly movies have not "brought my heroes to life" in any way, they are just contributing to mystify what they truly represented, and represent, by superimposing a raw, simplified frame of thinking on those of other historical moments, making an operation which is both dangerous and misleading.

[Comicopolis]

No, let's get back to your other statement that was wrong, Mister Peace.

 

 

You said Colossus was shorter than Wolverine, yet this was incorrect. Now you want to swap out the gender of a character as another approach when race was your main concern.

 

No, accuracy to the source material was my main concern. That's been lost since the 2nd post of the thread.

 

Fine, then. You want to pick nits? I'll amend my statement...Colossus should be a LOT taller than Wolverine...not 6 inches.

 

Peace,

 

Chip

 

You should never be ashamed of your 6 inches.

[Dark Knight]

Also, "Johnny" in my mind is a white person's name...

[vaillant]

I don’t think the issue here is racist. I think it’s the readers who are the purist that want the continuity of 40 years of reading to remain the same. Someone who’s read FF for 25 years expects to see on the big screen what they’ve been reading for almost three decades. Personally, I could care less. They are going to blow it again anyway.

 

First you should explain what you mean by "purism".

 

Second, the idea of a character "remains the same" has a double meaning. One is negative (the one you used) but one is positive. A good writer can, and in fact does, develop a character keeping it "the same" and at the same time making it grow.

A pity that Marvel systematically fired, one by one, all the good writers, to rebuilt its asset in a way each character is – de facto – interchangeable. You call this "renewal"? You call this "comic art"? I don’t.

[miraclemet]

I feel like we have had this discussion before. These heroes are fictional characters. As someone just mentioned if a good actor, regardless of color, can bring our heroes to life in a way that works why wouldn't we be happy?

 

Because it doesn’t make sense to arbitrarily alter a character, even a fictional character just for the sake of it? Or for some misunderstood sense of "equity", which in fact suppresses true personality.

And because they are "fictional" one should feel free to suppress complexity, and ultimately, sense?

 

 

I think the point some here are making is that the character is not being changed arbitrarily (your word), but to try and put the best actor in the role. Also if Michael B Jordan (or Donald Faison as Spiderman, or whom ever) captures the spirit of the character better than anyone else in the room, I say go for it. Its not a matter of equity/equality, just putting out the best product possible. If MBJ captures Johnny's spirit, and fire (hah!), and has great rapport with the actress playing Sue, then go for it.

 

 

[vaillant]

I think the point some here are making is that the character is not being changed arbitrarily (your word), but to try and put the best actor in the role. Also if Michael B Jordan (or Donald Faison as Spiderman, or whom ever) captures the spirit of the character better than anyone else in the room, I say go for it. Its not a matter of equity/equality, just putting out the best product possible. If MBJ captures Johnny's spirit, and fire (hah!), and has great rapport with the actress playing Sue, then go for it.

 

 

Again, what is "the best product possible"? A product that tries to remain faithful to Stan Lee’s vision or a product that arbitrarily alters it in favor of an "accomplished" movie "version"? Again, we are not talking of acting, we are not talking of race, we are talking of movies that are either inspired, based or vaguely look to Marvel comics?

[fantastic_four]

Also, "Johnny" in my mind is a white person's name...

 

The thread is getting bizarrely racist...PLENTY of African-Americans are named Johnny.

 

Marvel changes characters when they're represented in new media constantly. It's not the huge deal some of you think it is aside from in your own minds. Nothing about Wolverine really requires him to be 5' 3", and nothing about Johnny and Sue require them to be white. Stan Lee would agree--he certainly never had the rigid requirements for creative works that most of the fans do. It's counterproductive to the infinite possibility inherent in the creative process.

[Bosco685]

No, let's get back to your other statement that was wrong, Mister Peace.

 

 

You said Colossus was shorter than Wolverine, yet this was incorrect. Now you want to swap out the gender of a character as another approach when race was your main concern.

 

No, accuracy to the source material was my main concern. That's been lost since the 2nd post of the thread.

 

Fine, then. You want to pick nits? I'll amend my statement...Colossus should be a LOT taller than Wolverine...not 6 inches.

 

Peace,

 

Chip

 

You should never be ashamed of your 6 inches.

 

[fantastic_four]

A product that tries to remain faithful to Stan Lee’s vision

 

Stan Lee's vision had little to do with superficial character attributes like height or race, and he was NEVER as hung up on trivial aspects of a character like the fans are. His "No-Prize" was a perfect symbol of this--nitpicking little stuff like fans tend to do isn't something he has much respect for. It's not likely the Fantastic Four would have been accepted by white kids in 1961 before the Civil Rights movement, so he didn't have a lot of choice at the time with choosing the characters' races.

[miraclemet]

Also, "Johnny" in my mind is a white person's name...

 

The thread is getting bizarrely racist...PLENTY of African-Americans are named Johnny.

 

 

Johnny Cochran, Johnny Mathis, Johnny Gill off the top of my head... yeah its not as common as caucasian Johnnys, but its certainly more common than Rutherford, or Reed...

[vaillant]

Also, "Johnny" in my mind is a white person's name...

 

The thread is getting bizarrely racist...PLENTY of African-Americans are named Johnny.

 

Marvel changes characters when they're represented in new media constantly. It's not the huge deal some of you think it is aside from in your own minds. Nothing about Wolverine really requires him to be 5' 3", and nothing about Johnny and Sue require them to be white. Stan Lee would agree--he certainly never had the rigid requirements for creative works that most of the fans do. It's counterproductive to the infinite possibility inherent in the creative process.

 

To think creativity means to be utterly unrestrained in all one can do about his own "creative process" – without even caring for what has happened and how it has happened – then we are facing a misleading idea of creativity.

I think Stan could eventually agree with everything, now that his opinion does not matter so much to the Marvel management.

[miraclemet]

Also, "Johnny" in my mind is a white person's name...

 

The thread is getting bizarrely racist...PLENTY of African-Americans are named Johnny.

 

Marvel changes characters when they're represented in new media constantly. It's not the huge deal some of you think it is aside from in your own minds. Nothing about Wolverine really requires him to be 5' 3", and nothing about Johnny and Sue require them to be white. Stan Lee would agree--he certainly never had the rigid requirements for creative works that most of the fans do. It's counterproductive to the infinite possibility inherent in the creative process.

 

Also this just in, Hugh Jackman; not Canadian.

 

 

[Transplant]

Also, "Johnny" in my mind is a white person's name...