Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice movie thread for your reading pleasure 2 2

[NewEnglandGothic]

You haven't seen it, but Bruce was going to kill him. So yeah, it came out of left field and changed the whole dynamic. Good writing and a surprise.

 

Sounds almost like a Hitchcockian twist (the way Hitchcock used mothers with his leads, North By Northwest and Psycho, etc.)

 

[mschmidt]

Research the comic history a little deeper. The Martha thing was apparently just a device used to sell an awkward scene, it has no bearing on comic history. The coincidence is precious to be sure, but it doesn't demonstrate brilliant scriptwriting.

No.

 

(a) as a lifelong fan of the two I'm floating in enough comic history thank you, and (b) you have zero-experience of the film . So any lack of perspective is lopsided, 100% on your side.

 

So go see it, come back and trash it with authority. Otherwise...

 

For the writers to employ a minor factoid in that manor, to b-slap Bruce all the way back to HIS humanity, was clever if not brilliant imho.

After thousands of comic, film, animation and tv stories it was FRESH and unexpected. A fan can't ask for more than that.

 

You haven't seen it, but Bruce was going to kill him. So yeah, it came out of left field and changed the whole dynamic. Good writing and a surprise.

 

 

It was ridiculous. There were audible groans from the audience at the showing I was at.

[gadzukes]

I liked the "Martha" moment myself. Very nice. Since Martha is the motivation for everything Batman is, I bought into the moment, that it could stop him in his tracks and in that pause, Superman was humanized.

 

The "Martha" moment in BvS is kind of like the moment when the Grinch's heart grew 3 times it's size. It happened fast. Only in that moment he didn't get the strength of "Ten Batmans, plus two"

Edited April 27, 2016 by gadzukes

[Drummy]

I'm not a huge BvS fan (4/10 was my rating), and I have to admit the Martha scene was among the problems for me. For one thing, I felt like we didn't get a strong enough sense of Bruce Wayne's ties to his mother as an actual person (we see him visiting the grave and the dad's final words, but we never get to see WHY Martha Wayne was important to Bruce or to his father in any touching or meaningful way). Also, the fact that Superman has to say "I have to save Martha!" instead of "I have to save my mother!" felt odd and contrived to me -- it didn't feel like an authentic line someone would actually say.

 

I did, however, buy that Batman would hesitate in his killing of Supes when he hears the name -- I didn't roll my eyes when I heard it. In my mind, however, it just needed much more set-up to carry real emotional weight. It felt more like a "coincidence for the sake of the plot" than anything else.

 

Dan

[Doktor]

The "Martha" thing made just about the entire audience at my showing groan audibly. Maybe we're jaded? But it was pretty groan inducing for the showing I was at. Granted, it was only about 12 people in the theater though.

[Bosco685]

The "Martha" thing made just about the entire audience at my showing groan audibly. Maybe we're jaded? But it was pretty groan inducing for the showing I was at. Granted, it was only about 12 people in the theater though.

 

My theater didn't have that reaction. But at that point, I think they were all captivated by the fight right before this.

 

How did your crowd react to the Lex Luthor metahuman videos and Wonder Woman combat appearance?

[Prince Namor]

A moment like that, for the jaded, will induce a groan. Remember, this is America, where we're more influenced by Professional Wrestling than Macbeth.

 

I guess it's just impossible to make a serious superhero movie... an actual film, as opposed to a 'movie', without...

 

Oh wait, we're at $852MIL and counting!

[revat]

A moment like that, for the jaded, will induce a groan. Remember, this is America, where we're more influenced by Professional Wrestling than Macbeth.

 

I guess it's just impossible to make a serious superhero movie... an actual film, as opposed to a 'movie', without...

 

Oh wait, we're at $852MIL and counting!

 

Dark Knight was a pretty serious movie....

[Bosco685]

You ain't kidding!

 

Domestic: $319,918,506 (37.5%)

Foreign: $532,400,000 (62.5%)

Worldwide: $852,318,506

[Cat-Man_America]

Research the comic history a little deeper. The Martha thing was apparently just a device used to sell an awkward scene, it has no bearing on comic history. The coincidence is precious to be sure, but it doesn't demonstrate brilliant scriptwriting.

No.

 

(a) as a lifelong fan of the two I'm floating in enough comic history thank you, and (b) you have zero-experience of the film . So any lack of perspective is lopsided, 100% on your side.

 

So go see it, come back and trash it with authority. Otherwise...

 

For the writers to employ a minor factoid in that manor, to b-slap Bruce all the way back to HIS humanity, was clever if not brilliant imho.

After thousands of comic, film, animation and tv stories it was FRESH and unexpected. A fan can't ask for more than that.

 

You haven't seen it, but Bruce was going to kill him. So yeah, it came out of left field and changed the whole dynamic. Good writing and a surprise.

 

 

It sounds hokey on the page and apparently got a mixed reaction from audiences. Do you need more informed opinions to verify it? FRESH doesn't elicit groans.

 

I'll see the Diector's cut. My opinions here have been more about Zack Snyder's vision for the character than the failings of this film.

 

 

[miraclemet]

Since Martha is the motivation for everything Batman is, I bought into the moment that it could stop him in his tracks and in that pause, Superman was humanized.

 

 

is she?

 

Im trying to remember, how do they establish this in the movie?

[Bosco685]

It sounds hokey on the page and apparently got a mixed reaction from audiences. Do you need more informed opinions to verify it? FRESH doesn't elicit groans.

 

I'll see the Diector's cut. My opinions here have been more about Zack Snyder's vision for the character than the failings of this film.

 

Which post is this where you didn't judge the film as a failure already?

 

But you're absolutely right, there were other aspects of the confusing -script that actually seemed in conflict with scripture. My take on MoS was that he was supposed to represent the second coming of christ in an apocryphal world. Again, not an image of Superman that I cared to see. The entire film was a downer, the -script a jumbled mess and the acting sub-par.

 

BvS 2.0 apparently doesn't stray too far from the tree.

 

This one, where you made it sound like you knew all the details of BvS...

 

I only mention this to set the stage for the critical train wreck of BvS that followed.

 

...or this one that already called out BvS as a train wreck?

 

[Bosco685]

BATMAN V SUPERMAN R-Rated Extended Version Confirmed At 181 Minutes

 

The official run time of the R-Rated extended edition of Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice has been revealed, thanks to a listing for the Blu-ray by a Swedish retailer. The extended edition is 181 minutes, right at the "around three hours" mark that's been previously teased.

 

The extended edition gets an entire subplot that was cut from the theatrical release, including Jena Malone's role that was removed from the movie completely. There will also be some increase in the violence (a little more gore, like a stab wound actually having blood come out of it can instantly increase the rating from PG-13 to R).

[Gatsby77]

A moment like that, for the jaded, will induce a groan. Remember, this is America, where we're more influenced by Professional Wrestling than Macbeth.!

 

Point of Order: How the hell is the climax of Macbeth not similarly grown-inducing?

 

Y'all remember that, right? The big twist?

 

Prophecy three is "No man of woman-born can harm Macbeth"

 

So then when Macduff, having stormed the castle & defeated him in combat, runs him through, and Macbeth is lying there bleeding out, confused 'cuz he thought he was invulnerable Macduff reveals:

 

He's "not of woman born" 'cuz his mom had a c-section.

 

Seriously -- the big 11th-hour twist in Macbeth is "C-section, son!"

 

*Groan*

 

 

[Doktor]

The "Martha" thing made just about the entire audience at my showing groan audibly. Maybe we're jaded? But it was pretty groan inducing for the showing I was at. Granted, it was only about 12 people in the theater though.

 

My theater didn't have that reaction. But at that point, I think they were all captivated by the fight right before this.

 

How did your crowd react to the Lex Luthor metahuman videos and Wonder Woman combat appearance?

 

They enjoyed the Wonder Woman bits. But the cameos didn't really illicit ANY reaction at all. They didn't even really seem to be all that interested in the "Wonder Woman was alive in WW 1!" swerve/reveal. They were just kinda like "ok, so?" In fact, the biggest reaction was for Chris Pine being in the picture. No real excitement for much of it beyond the Wonder Woman fight scene. But as I said, it was a small crowd & maybe we were jaded.

 

Nobody was really captivated by the fight scene going on either. Neither the Batman/Superman fight nor the Doomsday fight, except for the Wonder Woman bits.

 

Edited April 27, 2016 by Doktor

[Bosco685]

They enjoyed the Wonder Woman bits. But the cameos didn't really illicit ANY reaction at all. They didn't even really seem to be all that interested in the "Wonder Woman was alive in WW 1!" swerve/reveal. They were just kinda like "ok, so?" In fact, the biggest reaction was for Chris Pine being in the picture. No real excitement for much of it beyond the Wonder Woman fight scene. But as I said, it was a small crowd & maybe we were jaded.

 

Nobody was really captivated by the fight scene going on either. Neither the Batman/Superman fight nor the Doomsday fight, except for the Wonder Woman bits.

 

My theater clapped loudly for Wonder Woman and Aquaman.

 

Cyborg and The Flash - not much of a reaction, other than the Cyborg scene got a few 'oh wow' comments. But I think they weren't sure what was going on too.

 

But during the Batman-Superman fight scene, you didn't hear anything. Like people were in shock due to how brutal Batman was to overcome Superman (which was not a bad thing). But when...

 

 

 

...he raised that Kryptonite spear up to drive it into Superman's chest, that definitely had someone yell out 'OH SHYT...' and people started laughing and clapping.

 

 

[Cat-Man_America]

It sounds hokey on the page and apparently got a mixed reaction from audiences. Do you need more informed opinions to verify it? FRESH doesn't elicit groans.

 

I'll see the Diector's cut. My opinions here have been more about Zack Snyder's vision for the character than the failings of this film.

 

Which post is this where you didn't judge the film as a failure already?

 

But you're absolutely right, there were other aspects of the confusing -script that actually seemed in conflict with scripture. My take on MoS was that he was supposed to represent the second coming of christ in an apocryphal world. Again, not an image of Superman that I cared to see. The entire film was a downer, the -script a jumbled mess and the acting sub-par.

 

BvS 2.0 apparently doesn't stray too far from the tree.

 

This one, where you made it sound like you knew all the details of BvS...

 

I only mention this to set the stage for the critical train wreck of BvS that followed.

 

...or this one that already called out BvS as a train wreck?

 

 

How does the word apparently demonstrate my pre-judging the film? I'm not embarrassed about referencing the consensus of critical reviews. Their chorus of disappointment in BvS has been heard loud and clear. It's there for all to read, just click Rotten Tomatoes and look for films whose box office numbers dropped off the page.

[Bosco685]

How does the word apparently demonstrate my pre-judging the film? I'm not embarrassed about referencing the consensus of critical reviews. Their chorus of disappointment in BvS has been heard loud and clear. It's there for all to read, just click Rotten Tomatoes and look for films whose box office numbers dropped off the page.

 

I realize the critics are key to your story. But the IMDb results show across 260,961 users they still score this movie at a 7.2/10.0 which is much more positive than the 325 critics that gave this movie an average of 4.9/10.0 via Rotten Tomatoes.

 

I'd say the weight leans towards the user population that are also paying customers. Speaking of which...

 

 

 

[revat]

How does the word apparently demonstrate my pre-judging the film? I'm not embarrassed about referencing the consensus of critical reviews. Their chorus of disappointment in BvS has been heard loud and clear. It's there for all to read, just click Rotten Tomatoes and look for films whose box office numbers dropped off the page.

 

I realize the critics are key to your story. But the IMDb results show across 260,961 users they still score this movie at a 7.2/10.0 which is much more positive than the 325 critics that gave this movie an average of 4.9/10.0 via Rotten Tomatoes.

 

I'd say the weight leans towards the user population that are also paying customers. Speaking of which...

 

 

 

 

to be fair, 500K imdb people gave Man of Steel 7.2/10 also. Sooo if I'm a dude who hasn't seen the 2nd movie, and most people agree that the score is the same and its the same director shot the same way with the same tone (all of which I didn't like) and the critics gave it an EVEN WORSE SCORE, I would think there's a pretty good chance I would feel the same way about the second movie as I did the first, and I would be unhappy that they didn't improve upon the first, AND I'd be very reluctant to spend theater time and money on it, and I'd feel pretty certain they are CONTINUING DOWN a path I'm not in favor of.

 

 

With that being said, I PERSONALLY thought it was better than MOS, mostly because of Batman and WW, but the plot holes were far larger in BvS and the editing far worse, resulting in just a marginally better overall movie. I would recommend the movie to any comic book fan, UNLESS they hated MOS. Then I would not recommend it, because clearly that style is not for you and the added deficiencies compound EXPONENTIALLY the unenjoyability of the film.

 

Same with Fantastic Four 2, which at the time made a decent amount of money, though not as much as they'd hoped. That was an AWFUL movie, but still worth watching if you're a huge fan of the Surfer. If you hated the first one, you for sure should not see the second one....and would think its reasonable to deride it even you hadn't seen it. Though to what extent....at some point it becomes more agenda driven than opinion sharing....

Edited April 27, 2016 by Revat

[Bosco685]

to be fair, 500K imdb people gave Man of Steel 7.2/10 also. Sooo if I'm a dude who hasn't seen the 2nd movie, and most people agree that the score is the same and its the same director shot the same way with the same tone (all of which I didn't like) and the critics gave it an EVEN WORSE SCORE, I would think there's a pretty good chance I would feel the same way about the second movie as I did the first, and I would be unhappy that they didn't improve upon the first, AND I'd be very reluctant to spend theater time and money on it, and I'd feel pretty certain they are CONTINUING DOWN a path I'm not in favor of.

 

With that being said, I PERSONALLY thought it was better than MOS, mostly because of Batman and WW, but the plot holes were far larger in BvS and the editing far worse, resulting in just a marginally better overall movie. I would recommend the movie to any comic book fan, UNLESS they hated MOS. Then I would not recommend it, because clearly that style is not for you and the added deficiencies compound EXPONENTIALLY the unenjoyability of the film.

 

Same with Fantastic Four 2, which at the time made a decent amount of money, though not as much as they'd hoped. That was an AWFUL movie, but still worth watching if you're a huge fan of the Surfer. If you hated the first one, you for sure should not see the second one....and would think its reasonable to deride it even you hadn't seen it. Though to what extent....at some point it becomes more agenda driven than opinion sharing....

 

Are you implying people voted 7.2/10.0 without seeing the movie? Out of that many people voting, I can see some of that taking place. But also remember the first two critics to post a review on Rotten Tomatoes admitted their scores were based on the trailers, as they had not seen the movie. So it goes both ways, right?

 

As far as huge plot holes in BvS - I wouldn't go that far. But the editing definitely needed work as you could tell there were scenes missing. Now finding out later there was a four-hour cut reviewed by production which then they sliced it down to 151 minutes, it's clear why it has that feeling.