Why do people think New Mutants #98 had a "high print run"...? 0

[southerncross]

True story, CVM made an apparent error or typo one month with regards to fugitoid #1. It went from $8 to $96 back to $8 the following month.

 

Guess which month I traded in my copy of fugitoid 1 to the LCS ?

 

That's evil Bronty

 

Those CVM did have the most drunken prices, And the shops in Brisbane did price the back issues based on their values listed.

Bad for collectors buying but great for 1st year working guy like me hoarding new issue multiples and getting half price trade to buy my monthly pull lists flipping Green Lantern 1's Emerald dawn 1's, Ghost rider 1's ect.

 

Wasn't GR #1 a $50 book in CVM at one point? I think Emerald Dawn was $35.

 

(And worth every damn penny. Emerald Dawn is the greatest Green Lantern story every told, ever, and that includes Neal Adams. It is simply the best. Tight plot, well written, GORGEOUS covers, caught the flavor of Hal, Carol, and the rest PERFECTLY. It is ta awesomes.)

 

 

 

Not sure but when the book hit the $20- $30 in CVM it was unload before the prices crashed.

 

And yeah that Emerald Dawn Green lantern series was fantastic.

Emerald dawn 2 was a disappointment like most sequels.

 

[Bosco685]

Bosco...you're focusing on irrelevant minutiae.

 

This isn't a discussion about metrics, focus groups, business analytics, or market surveys. Nor am I interested in such a discussion. Nor does my lack of interest mask some fear that I "have no answer" to your arguments.

 

You're trying way too hard to get me to bite, with the usual provocative commentary, and I'm not going to do it. I'm waiting any minute for you to pull out the Wookie Defense. Dial it back a bit, huh?

 

I'll talk about market dynamics in the comics industry all you want, but I will not get sidetracked into an irrelevant debate about whether or not Jon Warren improved the OPG system to the best it ever was, because it's not relevant to the discussion...if you need to see that as a surrender on my part, by all means, knock yourself out. I surrender!

 

 

RMA, I was just applying your same approach in a chat board discussion. If someone states an opinion or experience as fact, make them prove it to be true. You made that statement a few times in this thread, dissecting people's statements in order to disprove what they said. And that's not an opinion. That's what you do.

 

How about this on a discussion board. Let people share their experiences and opinions without a templated diatribe of how to convince them they just don't know what they are talking about. Then you can ease your extensive reference material details into the conversation without using it to discredit someone's statements.

 

That's the point you are missing. You did it to kimik, theblob and others (including myself). It's not a discussion if you try and force only your opinion.

[fastballspecial]

Now I have to ask for data to follow the enlightened path of "factual accuracy".

 

I'm going to have to disagree with you a bit there. In fact, Jon Warren, the editor of the Update at the time, did a better job of keeping track of things in this time period...when the Update went from once a year to every two months to every month...than at any other time during Overstreet's entire history, before or since.

 

So if something is a fact, it has to have data to back it up. Right? Otherwise, you are just making a statement based on your personal opinion.

 

1) What metrics validate "just about as accurate as it ever could possibly be" when judging a market tracking source?

 

2) Where are such metrics being tracked to validate "factual accuracy"?

 

3) Were there focus groups or survey results from major store owners where the results proved Jon Warren's period was the most accurate for the techniques available at the time?

 

It's important, as if you are stating what he wrote was the most up-to-date and accurate details for the time (if that is what you are implying), we need to validate the source.

 

 

3. The Market Reports.

 

Each update contained 10-15 market reports from individual retailers from around the country, and even frequently included retailers in the UK and Canada. Because these people were on the ground, doing the daily business of selling comics (and despite what I or any other internet pundits may say, the comics retailer is STILL the most reliable information on the day to day business of the comics industry than anyone else. If Richard Evans says "thus and such is a hot book, and it's selling for $XX, and here's why", I'll believe him over someone who only does conventions once a month, or even eBay sellers like myself, because he has the day to day interaction with collectors that no one else really has.)

 

eBay sales may be touted as having replaced such market reports, but eBay sales are only raw data. They have no context, the buyers don't give any motive for why they paid what they paid, and there's no way to explain why this book sold for $50 last week, and $17 today....outside of theorizing, which is usually pointless.

 

While it's never wise to rely on one source of information, having many sources of information gives a much clearer picture of what was actually happening, in many different places.

 

As far as "metrics" and "focus groups"....you do realize we're talking about comic books, right...?

 

:shrug:

 

The data speaks for itself. No need for surveys or focus groups. Those three details combined to make the OPG the most responsive, most up to date publication it had ever been, and, since the Update isn't published any more, sadly no longer is, and hasn't been for a long time.

 

Those market reports were "gold" to me especially when they went quarterly years later. I miss them because I got feedback from all over the country for what was in demand not just my area.

 

Tony Stark might be able to give us some insight into OS as well. He is a boardie and wrote for Overstreet for years in the 80s and 90s as well.

 

[fastballspecial]

True story, CVM made an apparent error or typo one month with regards to fugitoid #1. It went from $8 to $96 back to $8 the following month.

 

Guess which month I traded in my copy of fugitoid 1 to the LCS ?

 

That's evil Bronty

 

Those CVM did have the most drunken prices, And the shops in Brisbane did price the back issues based on their values listed.

Bad for collectors buying but great for 1st year working guy like me hoarding new issue multiples and getting half price trade to buy my monthly pull lists flipping Green Lantern 1's Emerald dawn 1's, Ghost rider 1's ect.

 

Wasn't GR #1 a $50 book in CVM at one point? I think Emerald Dawn was $35.

 

(And worth every damn penny. Emerald Dawn is the greatest Green Lantern story every told, ever, and that includes Neal Adams. It is simply the best. Tight plot, well written, GORGEOUS covers, caught the flavor of Hal, Carol, and the rest PERFECTLY. It is ta awesomes.)

 

 

 

Not sure but when the book hit the $20- $30 in CVM it was unload before the prices crashed.

 

And yeah that Emerald Dawn Green lantern series was fantastic.

Emerald dawn 2 was a disappointment like most sequels.

 

One of the few GL stories I read, put it down and thought "Man that was brilliant". It was smoking hot for awhile.

 

[Jeffro.]

Bosco...you're focusing on irrelevant minutiae.

 

This isn't a discussion about metrics, focus groups, business analytics, or market surveys. Nor am I interested in such a discussion. Nor does my lack of interest mask some fear that I "have no answer" to your arguments.

 

You're trying way too hard to get me to bite, with the usual provocative commentary, and I'm not going to do it. I'm waiting any minute for you to pull out the Wookie Defense. Dial it back a bit, huh?

 

I'll talk about market dynamics in the comics industry all you want, but I will not get sidetracked into an irrelevant debate about whether or not Jon Warren improved the OPG system to the best it ever was, because it's not relevant to the discussion...if you need to see that as a surrender on my part, by all means, knock yourself out. I surrender!

 

 

RMA, I was just applying your same approach in a chat board discussion. If someone states an opinion or experience as fact, make them prove it to be true. You made that statement a few times in this thread, dissecting people's statements in order to disprove what they said. And that's not an opinion. That's what you do.

 

How about this on a discussion board. Let people share their experiences and opinions without a templated diatribe of how to convince them they just don't know what they are talking about. Then you can ease your extensive reference material details into the conversation without using it to discredit someone's statements.

 

That's the point you are missing. You did it to kimik, theblob and others (including myself). It's not a discussion if you try and force only your opinion.

 

Did I just step out of the wayback machine into 2008/9?

[Bosco685]

Did I just step out of the wayback machine into 2008/9?

 

 

"The wayback machine"

 

No. It's the same situation of the beginnings of a good conversation about comics. Then RMA telling people their recollections, experiences and opinions aren't fact-based, and therefore not accurate.

 

You know. Bosco telling everyone what to do or think, and peeling apart each sentence in a statement.

 

[Jeffro.]

 

No. It's the same situation of the beginnings of a good conversation about comics. Then RMA telling people their recollections, experiences and opinions aren't fact-based, and therefore not accurate.

 

I have seen people in this thread quote or reference actual sources and also post anecdotal evidence.

 

Both sources are subject to scrutiny, however anecdotal evidence can be unprovable.

[Prince Namor]

Memory + Nostalgia = Faulty Information. I find myself falling victim to it.

[Jeffro.]

Or as Hepcat put it in another thread...

 

After all, it's a common trait for people to generalize from their own personal experience.

[ThoseBackPages]

i STILL cant find anyone to tell me (a newbie) WHY Deadpool is "popular" enough to warrant such a sum for NM98, other then he tells "fart jokes"

[retrothecollector]

i STILL cant find anyone to tell me (a newbie) WHY Deadpool is "popular" enough to warrant such a sum for NM98, other then he tells "fart jokes"

Me too... Do tell

[kimik]

NM #87 a cold dud...? When?

 

On eBay, for as long as I can go back (1998), they were always $5-$10. I bought a boatload of them. It never, ever became a bona fide dollar book.

 

#98 on the other hand, I bought in runs of, say, 95-100 for $10 shipped.

 

:shrug:

 

I was referring to the local shows that we would gouge people like Brian at.

 

For whatever reason, NM #98 was always an easier sell for us than #87. I had a copy of NM #87 in my show stock from a collection I bought in 2004 or so that finally sold last year. The copy of #98 from that run sold as soon as my former partner and I put it out way back then.

 

We see similar idiosyncracies in the local market with the US and eBay right now on other books. ASM #361 has been a $40 book here for 2 - 3 years now in 8.0+, which is why I like buying them on the boards or eBay for $15 - $20 apiece (or less). We can get above NM- guide for raw 8.0 - 9.0 copies of a lot of other Copper keys as well. This is why I like seeing the LCSs put new stock out at guide, especially for their 50% Boxing Day and FCBD sales.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Bosco...you're focusing on irrelevant minutiae.

 

This isn't a discussion about metrics, focus groups, business analytics, or market surveys. Nor am I interested in such a discussion. Nor does my lack of interest mask some fear that I "have no answer" to your arguments.

 

You're trying way too hard to get me to bite, with the usual provocative commentary, and I'm not going to do it. I'm waiting any minute for you to pull out the Wookie Defense. Dial it back a bit, huh?

 

I'll talk about market dynamics in the comics industry all you want, but I will not get sidetracked into an irrelevant debate about whether or not Jon Warren improved the OPG system to the best it ever was, because it's not relevant to the discussion...if you need to see that as a surrender on my part, by all means, knock yourself out. I surrender!

 

 

RMA, I was just applying your same approach in a chat board discussion. If someone states an opinion or experience as fact, make them prove it to be true. You made that statement a few times in this thread, dissecting people's statements in order to disprove what they said. And that's not an opinion. That's what you do.

 

 

This tune sounds familiar...where have I heard it before...?

 

How about this on a discussion board. Let people share their experiences and opinions without a templated diatribe of how to convince them they just don't know what they are talking about. Then you can ease your extensive reference material details into the conversation without using it to discredit someone's statements.

 

That's the point you are missing. You did it to kimik, theblob and others (including myself). It's not a discussion if you try and force only your opinion.

 

Ah, now I remember...

 

No, Bosco. We're not going down this road again, for the 10,000th time. When you can't debate the issue on its merits, you focus instead on the person debating you and what you feel their "flaws" are. That is garbage debate, and unworthy of response.

 

I'm not going to refute your statements here, because it accomplishes nothing good. Not because I think you're wrong, and not because I'm afraid to debate it, but because I don't wish to have yet another argument WITH YOU. If you choose to focus on an irrelevant side comment that has nothing to do with the discussion, and then claim victory because I'm not going to do this very old, very tired dance with you anymore, by all means...knock yourself out.

 

My advice to you is the same as it always is: if you don't like the way people discuss things, then don't discuss things with them. If the way people discuss things bothers you, spare yourself the bother and talk to other people.

 

There are hundreds of other fine people on this message board with whom to have a discussion. Why waste your time on someone who cannot have a discussion in the way you think it should be had...?

 

If you wish to go back to discussing the issues, rather than the people involved, please feel free. I'd be happy to continue that discussion. And I promise not to bring up the issues I (and others) have with you and the way you have discussions, and just discuss the issues on their merits.

 

That's pretty reasonable, no...?

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

Did I just step out of the wayback machine into 2008/9?

 

Nope.

 

[divad]

[RockMyAmadeus]

Memory + Nostalgia = Faulty Information. I find myself falling victim to it.

 

Me too.

 

I make it a point to encourage correction if I have something remembered wrong. I don't have a problem with being corrected, and actually like it, because it means my knowledge base is "more true" after the correction than it was before.

 

I'm much more interested in the truth, than the story in my head, no matter how appealing that story may be.

 

A lot of people have a hard time being corrected, and take it very personally. To those people I would say: don't be defined by what you know, but rather who you are. That way, you won't have a personal stake if you find out something you believed was wrong.

 

Tough advice, I know.

 

Mark Twain: "'It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.'

[RockMyAmadeus]

i STILL cant find anyone to tell me (a newbie) WHY Deadpool is "popular" enough to warrant such a sum for NM98, other then he tells "fart jokes"

 

He's a wiseass. All the kids love wiseasses these days.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Memory + Nostalgia = Faulty Information. I find myself falling victim to it.

 

Me too.

 

I make it a point to encourage correction if I have something remembered wrong. I don't have a problem with being corrected, and actually like it, because it means my knowledge base is "more true" after the correction than it was before.

 

I'm much more interested in the truth, than the story in my head, no matter how appealing that story may be.

 

A lot of people have a hard time being corrected, and take it very personally. To those people I would say: don't be defined by what you know, but rather who you are. That way, you won't have a personal stake if you find out something you believed was wrong.

 

Tough advice, I know.

 

Mark Twain: "'It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.'

 

Yeeesh.

 

What a bunch of hot air.

 

[the blob]

I'm still not sure how a book can be a "dud" for 18 years when in the middle of those 18 years (when the character in question did not even have a series of his own) it is selling for $175 in CGC 9.8 (see 2005 OPG at p. 128), but whatever, I suppose that is not relevant to the initial statement made in this thread.

 

With that said, I just picked up a bunch of Deadpool X-Force appearances out of my LCS 50 cent box. They were dragging him out into 1996 at least.

[vaillant]

Siege Perilous was the last dying gasp of Chris Claremont's coattails riding (yes I said it) X-Men career, and it was atrocious. He's very fortunate that Jim Lee came along and gave him a gracious ending to his run.

 

Literally, Nothing from issue #228-269 makes any sense. I dare anyone to string a coherent plot from that run.

 

Claremont had some wonderful plots...wonderful...but he was TERRIBLE at dialogue, and without a strong artist, he just rambles on and on, and goes nowhere. Plot elements introduced that are never resolved, plots that don't make sense, characters who behave differently one issue to another...ick.

 

Thanks, but what "Siege Perilous" refers to?

I restarted reading the X-Men as a young adult with issue #214 and I liked the various titles a lot, especially X-Factor, New Mutants and Power Pack.

 

But there are various thing I don’t understand. First, while I can see your point about the second half of the run you mentioned, I seem to recall up to some point the stories were good.

Second, I never thought Claremont was "terrible" at dialogue. I was re-reading some New Mutants and dialogue is good. Why do you say that?

Also, how the presence of a "strong artist" can improve a story if it is not already decently good?

 

I also don’t understand why you say that Jim Lee "gave him a gracious ending to his run" – I think I stopped buying the title when Lee started to co-wrote, or at least that is what I got. What would be the gracious ending?