Fantastic Four from Fox Studios (8/7/15) 1 1

[Mr 9.8]

Why didn't Fox do us all a favor and have the release date be tomorrow, why wait till Friday?

[porcupine48]

You guys need to hug it out. Think of the children.

 

 

You know, I was watching the Roger Corman FF film today, and I have to say, as much as I love Jessica Alba (though not as Sue Storm), I think the best looking Sue Storm has to be... Rebecca Staab....

 

Sheesh,that scene with MrFantastics arm going,and going and going...

[Buzzetta]

 

Hey, Thing... how ya doin? I heard you're in a new Fantastic Four movie. What's that all about? Those are some nice rocks. I like rocks. I also produced Entourage. Anyway, good to see you 'Thing'. Say hi to your mother for me!

 

 

Edited August 4, 2015 by Buzzetta

[RockMyAmadeus]

I wasn't offended, I was nearly explaining to you why someone ELSE pointed out that you were 'cheerleading', before you then made a hypocritical request for us to quit being negative because we might change others point of view.

 

Chuck, let it go. You peeling apart paragraphs and sentences so you can show how right you are

 

As Chuck said (and better than I've ever said it), this is done so that specific points are specifically and directly addressed, rather than "hid(ing) behind generalities that manipulative people use", which is rampant anywhere people gather to share opinions. Those who complain about "dissecting" do so not because "dissecting" makes points harder to understand...on the contrary, it addresses each point directly and (usually) clearly, just as in any proper debate: comment, rebuttal, point by point. That's how it works.

 

No, they complain because it forces them out of hiding behind those generalities, and makes them address those specific points directly, which is not what they want to do....because being specific is 1. hard, and 2. requires commitment.

 

It has nothing whatsoever to do with someone trying to "show how right they are."

 

Doesn't EVERYONE who posts an opinion think that opinion is "right"? Yes, of course they do, or they wouldn't post it. So, isn't everyone "trying to show how right they are" when they post? Not in so direct terms, but yes, of course they are.

 

That's how dialogue works.

 

So, you saying Chuck is only "trying to show how right he is" is a manipulative attempt to get other people to dismiss Chuck's statements. It says to the uninquisitive "huh...yeah, that Chuck guy thinks he's a know-it-all, doesn't he!" And your untruth becomes belief in others, which is exactly what you intended.

 

Rather than attacking the merits of Chuck's argument, you attack Chuck personally, in the hopes that invalidating the person will invalidate his arguments, without actually having to responsibly reason out why you believe his argument is invalid.

 

is only burning up a lot of board space that could be used to discuss the movie.

 

What business is it of anybody except the moderators and the board owners how much "board space" is "burned up" by anyone, on any topic, for any reason, provided they are operating within the rules of the board?

 

None.

 

Saying that is, again, an attempt to manipulate people into agreeing with you. "Yeah, that guy DOES type/post a lot. He's burning up valuable board space!" as if board space is a limited commodity that should be "preserved" for "legitimate" opinions only.

 

If you think that "board space" could be better used to discuss the movie, then by all means, do that. Neither Chuck nor anyone else is preventing you from using your own virtually unlimited board space to discuss whatever you want. If you don't think Chuck's posts should take up "board space", you're free to put him on ignore, and then his will disappear, replaced with a small notice that you're ignoring him. No fuss, no muss.

 

But you think it's appropriate to tell others to "let it go." How's about you "let go" of telling others when and how they should post...?

 

And hopefully in an unbiased way until we have actual details from someone that saw the movie.

 

Translation: "Chuck's view is obviously biased, so his opinions should be dismissed" and by "unbiased", you really mean "positive", which isn't unbiased.

 

That's just more manipulation.

 

You want to continue bringing the negative analysis into the discussion - that's your right. You want to accuse me of whatever - hypocrisy, manipulation, misrepresentation. If that helps your ego, have at it.

 

Manipulation - speaking as if Chuck's opinions are not informed by valid observation and experience, but are made to "help his ego."

 

Folks will just get a better view of where your head is at.

 

Manipulation - The unspoken coda to that sentence is "....and it's not at all good" is clear.

 

Your so focused on the negative and making sure everyone knows how much you will not be questioned over this movie's success - go get 'em.

 

Manipulation - speaking as if anybody except the moderators has any control over who questions what, rather than reality, which is that anyone is free to question anyone else, at any time, for any reason, within the (admittedly loose) structure of the board rules.

 

The comment is specifically designed to give the uninquisitive "skimmers" the impression that Chuck is some sort of totalitarian who doesn't allow anyone to question him, which is not the case for any regular poster on this board, much less Chuck. And there are dozens, if not hundreds, of people who have negative views of others on this board not because of their own direct interactions with those people...but because of comments others have made ABOUT those people, and they couldn't be bothered to find out for themselves.

 

It does real, actual damage when you deliberately misrepresent people.

 

Bosco...I say this not as your enemy, but as a friend, truly: if you didn't take and make these things personal, you wouldn't have these conflicts. It's not about the people discussing. Attack the merits of the argument, not the person making them.

 

A true friend tells you the truth, painful though it may be, while an enemy only flatters you with what you want to hear.

 

[Gatsby77]

Nope.

 

Disagree here, Rocky.

 

When one (or two) people's posts constitute a disproportionate percentage (here, 10-20%) of _all_ of the posts for the last 20 pages, personal attacks (or even advice, such as the aforementioned "Take it to PM") are warranted.

 

I myself have come close to such "over-posting" in the last few days, but when one person feels the need to rebut every single positive post of a movie that he hasn't even seen, it's time to ease off a bit.

 

Yes, that's arguing against the person, not on the issue.

 

It's also spot on.

[ChrisInBaltimore]

Yea I'm going to chime in too...

 

While Bosco has been positive about the film, it isn't surprising. He is positive about almost all the films. He just seems to enjoy them.

 

Chuck has made good points about the film, but he just continues to beat a dead horse. This thread has gotten tiring because he takes over every discussion and bashes the heck out of the film.

 

I bet it'll stink, but let's wait and see.

[cloud cloddie]

 

Hey, Thing... how ya doin? I heard you're in a new Fantastic Four movie. What's that all about? Those are some nice rocks. I like rocks. I also produced Entourage. Anyway, good to see you 'Thing'. Say hi to your mother for me!

 

 

[Comicopolis]

I like how people dislike something they haven't actually seen.

[Gotham Kid]

I bet it'll stink

 

+1

[Prince Namor]

Yea I'm going to chime in too...

 

While Bosco has been positive about the film, it isn't surprising. He is positive about almost all the films. He just seems to enjoy them.

 

Chuck has made good points about the film, but he just continues to beat a dead horse. This thread has gotten tiring because he takes over every discussion and bashes the heck out of the film.

 

I bet it'll stink, but let's wait and see.

 

The last discussion I had on this movie was with Gatsby over what we thought the movie would do in domestic and foreign grosses.

 

He said his thoughts on it based upon whatever ideas he has and I said mine We went back and forth.

 

How is that beating a dead horse?

 

Bausch's posted more than anyone in this thread, why isn't THAT beating a dead horse.

 

See how you've been manipulated? I shared my thoughts and Bosco has convinced you I'm aggressive and taking over the thread and forcing people to only see things from my view.

 

It's silly.

 

I'm entitled to share my thoughts as much as anyone.

 

 

[makeminemego]

I'm starting to think the movie may actually be more entertaining than this thread.

Edited August 4, 2015 by makeminemego

[ChrisInBaltimore]

Yea I'm going to chime in too...

 

While Bosco has been positive about the film, it isn't surprising. He is positive about almost all the films. He just seems to enjoy them.

 

Chuck has made good points about the film, but he just continues to beat a dead horse. This thread has gotten tiring because he takes over every discussion and bashes the heck out of the film.

 

I bet it'll stink, but let's wait and see.

 

The last discussion I had on this movie was with Gatsby over what we thought the movie would do in domestic and foreign grosses.

 

He said his thoughts on it based upon whatever ideas he has and I said mine We went back and forth.

 

How is that beating a dead horse?

 

Bausch's posted more than anyone in this thread, why isn't THAT beating a dead horse.

 

See how you've been manipulated? I shared my thoughts and Bosco has convinced you I'm aggressive and taking over the thread and forcing people to only see things from my view.

 

It's silly.

 

I'm entitled to share my thoughts as much as anyone.

 

 

Of course you are, as am I. You just seem to want to see the film fail. I imagine we will. You've just been really negative- that's all I'm trying to say.

 

Bosco did take it personally though and I'd concede on that point. I also think he posts a lot on movies and I suppose it is beating a dead horse too. I concede on both those points.

 

Don't you think you've been hard on this movie? It probably deserves it, but the thread in general has gotten really redundant which I guess threads do.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Yea I'm going to chime in too...

 

While Bosco has been positive about the film, it isn't surprising. He is positive about almost all the films. He just seems to enjoy them.

 

Chuck has made good points about the film, but he just continues to beat a dead horse. This thread has gotten tiring because he takes over every discussion and bashes the heck out of the film.

 

I bet it'll stink, but let's wait and see.

 

The last discussion I had on this movie was with Gatsby over what we thought the movie would do in domestic and foreign grosses.

 

He said his thoughts on it based upon whatever ideas he has and I said mine We went back and forth.

 

How is that beating a dead horse?

 

Bausch's posted more than anyone in this thread, why isn't THAT beating a dead horse.

 

See how you've been manipulated? I shared my thoughts and Bosco has convinced you I'm aggressive and taking over the thread and forcing people to only see things from my view.

 

It's silly.

 

I'm entitled to share my thoughts as much as anyone.

 

 

Yup.

 

And there's an antidote to people who think someone is "taking over a thread"...ignore them, and then continue chatting with others as you desire. No one can "take over" anything unless other people let them.

 

All this sturm und drang about how and what other people post...it's quite wacky.

 

 

 

[Bosco685]

What agenda could there be here related to a Fantastic Four movie failing or succeeding?

 

You're too positive. You need to earn some street cred like this guy is doing:

 

 

 

Get 'em!

 

[Bosco685]

Bosco...I say this not as your enemy, but as a friend, truly: if you didn't take and make these things personal, you wouldn't have these conflicts. It's not about the people discussing. Attack the merits of the argument, not the person making them.

 

A true friend tells you the truth, painful though it may be, while an enemy only flatters you with what you want to hear.

 

I took nothing personal, RMA. You should realize that.

 

I am just observing the same actions in here that Chuck has taken with another movie he took a strong offense to its content. It's about repeatedly beating on the same negative drum when the point has been made.

 

Your observations are noted - again. But they are painted with the same historic brush that gives you a feeling it is others - not the other person. Even when I tried to stop debating, Chuck had to carry on.

[VintageComics]

Yea I'm going to chime in too...

 

While Bosco has been positive about the film, it isn't surprising. He is positive about almost all the films. He just seems to enjoy them.

 

Chuck has made good points about the film, but he just continues to beat a dead horse. This thread has gotten tiring because he takes over every discussion and bashes the heck out of the film.

 

I bet it'll stink, but let's wait and see.

 

The last discussion I had on this movie was with Gatsby over what we thought the movie would do in domestic and foreign grosses.

 

He said his thoughts on it based upon whatever ideas he has and I said mine We went back and forth.

 

How is that beating a dead horse?

 

Bausch's posted more than anyone in this thread, why isn't THAT beating a dead horse.

 

See how you've been manipulated? I shared my thoughts and Bosco has convinced you I'm aggressive and taking over the thread and forcing people to only see things from my view.

 

It's silly.

 

I'm entitled to share my thoughts as much as anyone.

 

 

Yup.

 

And there's an antidote to people who think someone is "taking over a thread"...ignore them, and then continue chatting with others as you desire. No one can "take over" anything unless other people let them.

 

All this sturm und drang about how and what other people post...it's quite wacky.

 

 

 

The 'burning board real estate' comment was ridiculous because nobody burns more board real estate than Bosco now.

 

Personally, I think the all movie threadss are a bit silly at times as there is literally more speculation in them than the movies warrant. Or the comics themselves.

 

Oh, and I think FF is going to be a stinker.

 

 

 

[Prince Namor]

Yea I'm going to chime in too...

 

While Bosco has been positive about the film, it isn't surprising. He is positive about almost all the films. He just seems to enjoy them.

 

Chuck has made good points about the film, but he just continues to beat a dead horse. This thread has gotten tiring because he takes over every discussion and bashes the heck out of the film.

 

I bet it'll stink, but let's wait and see.

 

The last discussion I had on this movie was with Gatsby over what we thought the movie would do in domestic and foreign grosses.

 

He said his thoughts on it based upon whatever ideas he has and I said mine We went back and forth.

 

How is that beating a dead horse?

 

Bausch's posted more than anyone in this thread, why isn't THAT beating a dead horse.

 

See how you've been manipulated? I shared my thoughts and Bosco has convinced you I'm aggressive and taking over the thread and forcing people to only see things from my view.

 

It's silly.

 

I'm entitled to share my thoughts as much as anyone.

 

 

Of course you are, as am I. You just seem to want to see the film fail. I imagine we will. You've just been really negative- that's all I'm trying to say.

 

Bosco did take it personally though and I'd concede on that point. I also think he posts a lot on movies and I suppose it is beating a dead horse too. I concede on both those points.

 

Don't you think you've been hard on this movie? It probably deserves it, but the thread in general has gotten really redundant which I guess threads do.

 

If you go back and read, the things I've pointed out are how the mistakes this film is making in it's production and presentation are historically consistent with movies that have failed. So when someone says, "I think tis movie could do $300MIL in foreign" and I respond with, "But none of the Fox movies under $200MIL (which it is sure to not hit) have ever done $300MIL in foreign - is that me saying I don't like the movie or stating a fact as a part of the conversation?

 

Is that negative or a part of conversation?

 

I think it's important to realize how I've hardly ever mentioned the film itself, as a movie/story, and yet I've somehow been painted as 'not liking the movie'

 

How'd that happen?

 

Or how I'm 'negative', even though generally, I've just responded to other people's opinion's in topics like the budget, it's possible performance, the director's behavior, etc.

 

But somehow, I've been painted as being negative....

 

Hmm.....

[ChrisInBaltimore]

Yea I'm going to chime in too...

 

While Bosco has been positive about the film, it isn't surprising. He is positive about almost all the films. He just seems to enjoy them.

 

Chuck has made good points about the film, but he just continues to beat a dead horse. This thread has gotten tiring because he takes over every discussion and bashes the heck out of the film.

 

I bet it'll stink, but let's wait and see.

 

The last discussion I had on this movie was with Gatsby over what we thought the movie would do in domestic and foreign grosses.

 

He said his thoughts on it based upon whatever ideas he has and I said mine We went back and forth.

 

How is that beating a dead horse?

 

Bausch's posted more than anyone in this thread, why isn't THAT beating a dead horse.

 

See how you've been manipulated? I shared my thoughts and Bosco has convinced you I'm aggressive and taking over the thread and forcing people to only see things from my view.

 

It's silly.

 

I'm entitled to share my thoughts as much as anyone.

 

 

Of course you are, as am I. You just seem to want to see the film fail. I imagine we will. You've just been really negative- that's all I'm trying to say.

 

Bosco did take it personally though and I'd concede on that point. I also think he posts a lot on movies and I suppose it is beating a dead horse too. I concede on both those points.

 

Don't you think you've been hard on this movie? It probably deserves it, but the thread in general has gotten really redundant which I guess threads do.

 

If you go back and read, the things I've pointed out are how the mistakes this film is making in it's production and presentation are historically consistent with movies that have failed. So when someone says, "I think tis movie could do $300MIL in foreign" and I respond with, "But none of the Fox movies under $200MIL (which it is sure to not hit) have ever done $300MIL in foreign - is that me saying I don't like the movie or stating a fact as a part of the conversation?

 

Is that negative or a part of conversation?

 

I think it's important to realize how I've hardly ever mentioned the film itself, as a movie/story, and yet I've somehow been painted as 'not liking the movie'

 

How'd that happen?

 

Or how I'm 'negative', even though generally, I've just responded to other people's opinion's in topics like the budget, it's possible performance, the director's behavior, etc.

 

But somehow, I've been painted as being negative....

 

Hmm.....

 

I think it is the same way you've painted Bosco positive.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Nope.

 

Disagree here, Rocky.

 

When one (or two) people's posts constitute a disproportionate percentage (here, 10-20%) of _all_ of the posts for the last 20 pages, personal attacks (or even advice, such as the aforementioned "Take it to PM") are warranted.

 

Personal attacks are never warranted, at any time, for any reason, under any circumstances.

 

If you don't like what someone says, or the amount of what they say, or the way they express themselves...ignore them. Complaining about it, and attacking people about it, makes you just as guilty as the one you're complaining about and attacking.

 

If you have to scroll through pages of "you are ignoring this user", so what? It's not that hard.

 

Everyone has the right to post as much as they want, as often as they want, with as many or few words as they want, provided they are operating within the rules of the board. If anyone has a problem with that, the proper channel is to take it to the moderators...not by making personal attacks. And it is no one's business but the moderators as to how, why, what, and where anyone posts.

 

I'm amazed that this even needs to be stated.

 

I myself have come close to such "over-posting" in the last few days, but when one person feels the need to rebut every single positive post of a movie that he hasn't even seen, it's time to ease off a bit.

 

That is your opinion, and is not an opinion shared by others. And your opinion has no more authority than anyone else's. And, I suspect your claim that one has "rebut(ted) every single positive post" isn't accurate, either.

[Bosco685]

Yea I'm going to chime in too...

 

While Bosco has been positive about the film, it isn't surprising. He is positive about almost all the films. He just seems to enjoy them.

 

Chuck has made good points about the film, but he just continues to beat a dead horse. This thread has gotten tiring because he takes over every discussion and bashes the heck out of the film.

 

I bet it'll stink, but let's wait and see.

 

The last discussion I had on this movie was with Gatsby over what we thought the movie would do in domestic and foreign grosses.

 

He said his thoughts on it based upon whatever ideas he has and I said mine We went back and forth.

 

How is that beating a dead horse?

 

Bausch's posted more than anyone in this thread, why isn't THAT beating a dead horse.

 

See how you've been manipulated? I shared my thoughts and Bosco has convinced you I'm aggressive and taking over the thread and forcing people to only see things from my view.

 

It's silly.

 

I'm entitled to share my thoughts as much as anyone.

 

 

Of course you are, as am I. You just seem to want to see the film fail. I imagine we will. You've just been really negative- that's all I'm trying to say.

 

Bosco did take it personally though and I'd concede on that point. I also think he posts a lot on movies and I suppose it is beating a dead horse too. I concede on both those points.

 

Don't you think you've been hard on this movie? It probably deserves it, but the thread in general has gotten really redundant which I guess threads do.

 

I didn't take anything personal with this movie. I didn't produce, direct, act, invest or market this film. So it is funny the same people that make it out to taking something personal and let it go are the same that are also not understanding why I am positive about comic book films WHEN they deserve it.

 

Chuck making it out there is manipulation here is a very twisted view on things. Repeatedly, Chuck has posted in here how this movie is going to fail - how it is not the Fantastic Four he grew up on - that the design of the characters doesn't meet his standards.

 

How much negative do you post in a thread about a topic before you finally move on to something you do appreciate? Would you stay married to someone you don't love because - oh well - that person said 'YES' originally. But then complain for years what a horrible marriage you have? Or the restaurant analogy - would you go back repeatedly to a restaurant you didn't enjoy just to let them know 'YOU STILL SUCK'?

 

Good grief!