THE AMAZING FANTASY #15 CLUB 39 39

[gadzukes]

I finally found a masthead for my remaindered copy.  Here's the result.

I'm just happy to have another Af15 in the middle of this price explosion that's been happening, even if it's just a restored copy.

 

[lou_fine]

On 9/3/2017 at 11:29 AM, Bomber-Bob said:

A couple of the 'worked on' books I bought, at a convention , raw from Ewert and Brulato, were from circa 1999, maybe 2000 ish. They were active for years before getting 'caught'.  It was amazing at the inventory these guys had, in uber high grades no less.  

What's the chance that some of Brulato's uber HG SA books sitting in his personal collection, including some of his Curators and other highest graded copies, might have also receive a similar tender loving care treatment from his former VIA partner? 

Especially since I believe they have never been reslabbed or placed into the marketplace as far as I am aware of. 

[Bomber-Bob]

6 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

What's the chance that some of Brulato's uber HG SA books sitting in his personal collection, including some of his Curators and other highest graded copies, might have also receive a similar tender loving care treatment from his former VIA partner? 

Especially since I believe they have never been reslabbed or placed into the marketplace as far as I am aware of. 

I would hope the Curators were not touched. They actually stood on their own and probably only needed a light press in some circumstances. I believe the Curator X-Men #1 got a 9.8 on it's first submission and, for a while, was the only 9.8 on the census. The Curators came out just before CGC started and Brulato got most of the good stuff. It's still one of my favorite pedigrees, incredible page quality, and not too many books in the marketplace. However, you raise a good point.

[lou_fine]

1 hour ago, Bomber-Bob said:

1 hour ago, lou_fine said:

What's the chance that some of Brulato's uber HG SA books sitting in his personal collection, including some of his Curators and other highest graded copies, might have also receive a similar tender loving care treatment from his former VIA partner? 

Especially since I believe they have never been reslabbed or placed into the marketplace as far as I am aware of. 

I would hope the Curators were not touched. They actually stood on their own and probably only needed a light press in some circumstances. I believe the Curator X-Men #1 got a 9.8 on it's first submission and, for a while, was the only 9.8 on the census. The Curators came out just before CGC started and Brulato got most of the good stuff. It's still one of my favorite pedigrees, incredible page quality, and not too many books in the marketplace. However, you raise a good point.

Didn't Brulato have his Curators and other uber HG books graded very early on in the grading game before this whole grade manipulation and enhancement came to light? 

If that's the case let's hope that the books have also not been pressed in that case, since he most likely would have also used Jason's services for this.  And if it was Jason, why would they have stopped at "sharpening the edges" since both pressing and micro trimming were thought of in the general marketplace as a form of restoration in CGC's first few years of existence before these hidden practices were outed on these very  boards here. 

I guess it doesn't really matter at this point anyways, because I strongly doubt we will ever see these books taken out of their old slabs. 

Edited September 7, 2017 by lou_fine

[Bomber-Bob]

58 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Didn't Brulato have his Curators and other uber HG books graded very early on in the grading game before this whole grade manipulation and enhancement came to light? 

If that's the case let's hope that the books have also not been pressed in that case, since he most likely would have also used Jason's services for this.  And if it was Jason, why would they have stopped at "sharpening the edges" since both pressing and micro trimming were thought of in the general marketplace as a form of restoration in CGC's first few years of existence before these hidden practices were outed on these very  boards here. 

I guess it doesn't really matter at this point anyways, because I strongly doubt we will ever see these books taken out of their old slabs. 

I suspect Brulato would have been privy to the art of pressing long before the rest of us so it's possible he pressed the Curators. Yes, he was on board early with CGC submissions. I don't know when he actually hooked up with Jason before eventually making a joint business venture. He seems to be keeping a low profile lately, don't see him as much as I used to. 

[paul747]

There seems to be some resistance building up at new price point AF #15 s are stacking up . 7 alone on Bobs site, 25 on E-bay and others for sale everywhere.  Just an observation. no buyers at new price point, seems like a lot of people are willing to get out of their copies.

Edited September 8, 2017 by paul747

[G.A.tor]

31 minutes ago, paul747 said:

There seems to be some resistance building up at new price point AF #15 s are stacking up . 7 alone on Bobs site, 25 on E-bay and others for sale everywhere.  Just an observation. no buyers at new price point, seems like a lot of people are willing to get out of their copies.

I think there are buyers. I bet Bob has sold many multiple copies lately. I've sold a couple. eBay has always had lots of copies (typically higher than fmv priced , and since there are many options like highgrade , auction houses etc to get good copies at fmv, eBay copies sit)

[chrisco37]

1 hour ago, G.A.tor said:

I think there are buyers. I bet Bob has sold many multiple copies lately. I've sold a couple. eBay has always had lots of copies (typically higher than fmv priced , and since there are many options like highgrade , auction houses etc to get good copies at fmv, eBay copies sit)

Agree.  I suspect that buyers of AF15 (or "fill in the blank with big $$$ book") would prefer to buy from a dealer or auction house versus eBay.  Not saying there aren't eBay sales, just that when spending that kind of money, personally I'd go a dealer/auction house route (even if cost a little more) than roll the dice on "random eBay guy". 

[zhamlau]

2 hours ago, paul747 said:

There seems to be some resistance building up at new price point AF #15 s are stacking up . 7 alone on Bobs site, 25 on E-bay and others for sale everywhere.  Just an observation. no buyers at new price point, seems like a lot of people are willing to get out of their copies.

Well not speaking for Bob's copies, but I tend to follow ebay closely. I looked at all BIN copies (only ones with prices) on ebay and i found around 30+. Every single copy for sale right now has some common elements

1. Is priced for 10-150% over GPA

• Chipped copies are being offered for prices at or substantially above highest sale price of unchipped exceptional in grade copies from major auctions (aka worse copies being offered for over the selling price of superior copies)
• Unchipped superior copies are being offered on average around 100% over known high level mark prices (there is one example however of a clean unchipped mid-grade being offered at just 5% over record, that's the best value it seems)

2. Are generally lower examples in grade across board, very few high PQ no chips copies out there (only 2 i see now in BIN). Rest are copies that most collectors would love to have but arent exceptional in grade or with exceptional eye appeal.

 

Basically ebay is filled right now with books with lesser eye appeal and structure issues for substantially over high GPA prices. Anything higher quality/exceptional in anyway is being offered for multiples of GPA/fair market (one exception maybe). It looks like a bunch of guys fishing with lesser copies hoping to find someone who doesnt know how to read GPA properly who dont mind setting new record high prices...they are doing this because there is little to no risk for them cost wise. Its lazy "i hope you will overpay even in a strong market" offerings. Those normally stack up, not surprising at all (at least to me).

[Sweet Lou 14]

2 hours ago, zhamlau said:

Basically ebay is filled right now with books with lesser eye appeal and structure issues for substantially over high GPA prices. Anything higher quality/exceptional in anyway is being offered for multiples of GPA/fair market (one exception maybe). It looks like a bunch of guys fishing with lesser copies hoping to find someone who doesnt know how to read GPA properly who dont mind setting new record high prices...they are doing this because there is little to no risk for them cost wise. Its lazy "i hope you will overpay even in a strong market" offerings. Those normally stack up, not surprising at all (at least to me).

Speaking as someone who is going after keys while also putting together runs, I can say that this behavior is consistent across the board.  Pick almost any random 1970s issue of a Marvel title in 9.4 and you'll see copies sitting on eBay at 150% - 250% of GPA.

[Dark Knight]

Checking ebay and saw that a CGC 5.0 copy sold for $9750 yesterday.  Looks like a scam and I 'm sure it is.  I've seen those same pictures circulating around ebay auctions every few months or so.  

Also, just saw a beautiful 5.0 old label copy with a BIN of $119k OBO.  Seller also has a nice 6.5 old label Hulk 1 up for sale.  Looks legit to me after selling a ASM 1 for over $20k this year, but then again I dunno given there have been so many hijacked accounts and that his pictures were taken differently for each book: one with a camera and the other on a scanner.  

[SECollector]

55 minutes ago, Dark Knight said:

Checking ebay and saw that a CGC 5.0 copy sold for $9750 yesterday.  Looks like a scam and I 'm sure it is.  I've seen those same pictures circulating around ebay auctions every few months or so.  

I genuinely wonder who in his right mind, who knows what an AF15 is and has $9750 in his bank account, would think that such a listing is legit and actually go for it.  

[Dark Knight]

22 minutes ago, SECollector said:

I genuinely wonder who in his right mind, who knows what an AF15 is and has $9750 in his bank account, would think that such a listing is legit and actually go for it.  

Nuff said

[Glassman10]

52 minutes ago, Dark Knight said:

Nuff said

well maybe , maybe not. Auctions are strange things and the term "buyer's remorse " didn't come out of the blue

I do think that AF 15 is interesting because it's not a rare book. It does indeed seem that it's the case that there's a glut on the market right now  and it will be most interesting to see what happens as the glut subsides. My copy cost me nothing as I've said before but most copies did indeed cost something and people want at the very least to not get burned and preferably would like to make some coin on flipping what is not a rare book. It seems to me that if you are in a hurry, or borrowed money to buy an AF 15 thinking  about a quick turnover, it may be a bad time. I have to make a comparison:

In February, I put 20 K into VISA  or MC as stocks after getting out of an investment. It's up as  of today 17%. Not bad on return but I'm in no hurry to sell it. It has tax as does a comic. It has risk, as does a comic and maybe the comic is worse. How many books are going under water between Sarasota and Houston in the last ten days?  

Risk is a part of investing. Supply and demand are real. Sometimes it's a bad time to sell, sometimes not if you don't have to. Auctions really push the time frame. Dealers don't. . Being in a hurry is where volatility finds it's bottom.  I have confidence in Bob.  The number of people who want an AF15 compared to the number of  issues that are available is a funny ratio.  Any glut won't last unless people move from AF15 to  Something else. What can fill that "Something Else " void? Why is ASM 129 valuable at all, or Iron Man 55?  Do we always need the unattainable or can we enjoy the books?

One of my teachers in art always said to never let your art be your work.  He was a really smart guy. 

[dem1138]

Speaking of all of this - relevant new sale that hit GPA:

My Comic Shop 

Amazing Fantasy (1962-1996) #15 CGC 3.5 

$18,975

[G.A.tor]

4 hours ago, dem1138 said:

Speaking of all of this - relevant new sale that hit GPA:

My Comic Shop 

Amazing Fantasy (1962-1996) #15 CGC 3.5 

$18,975

Clean copy or marvel chipping?

[piper]

5 hours ago, dem1138 said:

Speaking of all of this - relevant new sale that hit GPA:

My Comic Shop 

Amazing Fantasy (1962-1996) #15 CGC 3.5 

$18,975

Does that price seem low?

[showcase22gr1959]

Here's the 3.5 being discussed.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amazing-Fantasy-1962-15-CGC-3-5-0039103001-/311946599427?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=%2FNKz5DTEpMZIMLBH4G2NHD5VYb8%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

 

[Gotham Kid]

Not a bad looking 3.5 at all. Is that an expected price ?

[showcase22gr1959]

13 minutes ago, Gotham Kid said:

Not a bad looking 3.5 at all. Is that an expected price ?

I agree, decent 3.5 and it sold within ten days. If this copy didn't have chips, would command a 25%+  premium.