DC and Marvel movie results: 1978 to present 5 5

[CAHokie]

What percentage of women that stay at home to raise the family have zero decision making? I didn't realize the percentage of decision making was tied to the hourly bring home rate. I know we don’t have many women here but maybe the stay at home dads can way in.

I wonder how many women would choose or love to stay at home if they could but it takes two incomes to make it.

 

[VintageComics]

On 12/5/2023 at 4:31 PM, jaybuck43 said:

The "trad" lifestyle portrayed and lamented about being gone is one where the wife is subservient to the husband, not one where the wife (or the husband) is a stay at home partner but equal in all other regards.  

Well then you have it all wrong because that's not the traditional lifestyle I was raised in. 

My grandmother absolutely had a say in what happened in the household, in fact, both my grandmothers were the strength in the family.

My mom had a say. My exes had says. My daughters have says. Full stop. 

Maybe you need to update on what "traditional" means and need to stop getting your facts from social media and the news, which is where all of this info and programming comes from. 

[jaybuck43]

On 12/5/2023 at 4:34 PM, CAHokie said:

What percentage of women that stay at home to raise the family have zero decision making? I didn't realize the percentage of decision making was tied to the hourly bring home rate. I know we don’t have many women here but maybe the stay at home dads can way in.

I wonder how many women would choose or love to stay at home if they could but it takes two incomes to make it.

 

No clue.  Depends on the relationship.  There are plenty of partners where they are equal.  And there are plenty of people who will say "I bring home the money, I make the decisions".  

[namisgr]

On 12/5/2023 at 4:34 PM, CAHokie said:

What percentage of women that stay at home to raise the family have zero decision making? I didn't realize the percentage of decision making was tied to the hourly bring home rate. I know we don’t have many women here but maybe the stay at home dads can way in.

And what does this have to do with the depiction of women in Sleeping Beauty and Snow White needing a gallant prince to activate their desired lives?  Or of the racist portrayal of Asian cultures in a Disney movie and a slew of comic books from a bygone era?  Movies, comic books, books, and the like have for a hundred years been spreading messages from their points of view.  The notion that things are different now in movies from Disney ignores this 100 year history.  

What I do agree with is that some of the more recent offerings from Disney lack the compelling storytelling, warmth, and charm that characterize so many of their successes from long ago.  It's not a problem of messaging but one of moviemaking.

Edited December 5, 2023 by namisgr

[jaybuck43]

On 12/5/2023 at 4:36 PM, VintageComics said:

Well then you have it all wrong because that's not the traditional lifestyle I was raised in. 

My grandmother absolutely had a say in what happened in the household, in fact, both my grandmothers were the strength in the family.

My mom had a say. My exes had says. My daughters have says. Full stop. 

Maybe you need to update on what "traditional" means and need to stop getting your facts from social media and the news, which is where all of this info and programming comes from. 

That is YOUR personal definition of a "traditional" lifestyle.  The problem is that the general discussion that is going on right now in society about "Tradwives" is not that at all.  It espouses the idea that women should concentrate only on birthing children, raising them, cleaning the house, and being utterly subservient to their husband in ALL matters.  This is an entire movement, including TikTok influencers pushing it etc.  And when you start to peel back the layers on it, that movement then gets into some really creepy places (including a TON of white supremacy).  

Your personal definition doesn't match what societies currently is.  You're describing a one-income family.  Hey, if you can have that, congratulations! that is great. 

 

[VintageComics]

On 12/5/2023 at 4:34 PM, CAHokie said:

What percentage of women that stay at home to raise the family have zero decision making? I didn't realize the percentage of decision making was tied to the hourly bring home rate. I know we don’t have many women here but maybe the stay at home dads can way in.

I wonder how many women would choose or love to stay at home if they could but it takes two incomes to make it.

 

 

On 12/5/2023 at 4:38 PM, jaybuck43 said:

No clue.  Depends on the relationship.  There are plenty of partners where they are equal.  And there are plenty of people who will say "I bring home the money, I make the decisions".  

Wow, dude. If I told my daughters and exes how you people are portraying women they'd want to meet you in Phil's parking lot for a smackdown.

I agree with @CAHokie, that MANY MORE women would prefer to stay at home and raise their children IF THEY COULD. It's in their evolutionary biology and psychology. 

Their evolutionary biology is not to want to be a CEO. That came much after, as a backlash against society because the media programmed them to be bitter about it. 

The media projects what people don't have and makes them bitter, in order to make people want things, and bitterness is a never ending well that transcends all generations, demographics and even time itself. If you make someone bitter they can stay bitter forever. 

The antidote to bitterness is gratefulness. 

We are quite literally living at the pinnacle of human history. If you have weekly food you're in the top percentile on earth. If you can vote freely and get a job, you're in the top percentile on earth. Yes, there are always deficiencies but these deficiencies are being projected as though they're life and death and much worse than they are. 

How about instead of portraying what people don't have, and pitting people against each other, media portrayed gratefulness for what people DO have and we grew from that common ground instead?

The world would be a different place.

And I'm going to say it:

Not everyone can be and do anything they want, which is the message that a lot of movies and media project these days. There are limitations and you can't pretend those limitations are not real. 

[VintageComics]

On 12/5/2023 at 4:49 PM, jaybuck43 said:

TikTok influencers pushing it etc.  And when you start to peel back the layers on it, that movement then gets into some really creepy places (including a TON of white supremacy).  

Your personal definition doesn't match what societies currently is.  

Oh, well I guess we'll take the Tik Tok influencers over real life.

You're obviously younger and lean a lot more on social media than I do, but my personal definition matches real life a lot better than Tik Tok does, at least in the free world, I can tell you that.

The roots of most bitterness come from not addressing root causes, and the current narrative does NOTHING to address root causes, it only addresses the symptoms which makes the patient worse, not better.

If you want to get into root causes, you need to understand how and why men and women interact differently. There is no "supremacy" in my family. 

I'd love to have a discussion with you on "white supremacy" but this is not the place, so if you want to do it via PM or elsewhere, I'm game. 

And with that, I think we can either agree to disagree or chat elsewhere. 

Edited December 5, 2023 by VintageComics

[ThothAmon]

On 4/12/2014 at 5:36 PM, Bosco685 said:

Since there have been so many posts about who should declare cinema victory over the past few years, maybe it is worth taking a look at the production run of both companies. It doesn't take deep analysis to identify Marvel as the solid quality leader at this time, though Warner is promising large growth over the coming years.

 

The 1978 to present period in DC and Marvel-based productions is comprised of 76 movies. Looking at all included movies as a whole, they had a budget of $9,067,500,000 leading to a worldwide box office revenue total of $30.519,924,346 using USD from their given year of release. If adjusted for 2016 inflation, the overall worldwide box office revenue total is $35,081,492,263.

 

Some movies had a very limited cinema release (Captain America from 1990 mainly appeared in UK theaters and a few other limited international markets), and three movies either were a total direct to video (DTV) release with one being a partial DTV. With the Wes Craven 'Swamp Thing' movie from 1982, it is very unclear what true budget and box office results were noted for the time. Some sites like IMDb mistakenly reference numbers from 'The Return of Swamp Thing' and cannot confirm the results.

 

Suicide Squad is still actively showing in theaters as of this update, and Doctor Strange (movie #77) will be in UK theaters as of October 23.

 

Note: Movie budget and box office results were taken from either Box Office Mojo, IMDb, Rotten Tomatoes or through researching interviews with creators that spoke to the final results (Roger Corman mentioning his total budget for 'The Fantastic Four' was one million dollars). In the case of 'The Fantastic Four' where Marvel purchased the movie for an additional few million dollars so as not to have it released to the public, this has not been included in the final analysis. %20really%3F%20Arad%22&f=false'>Los Angeles Magazine, March 2005

 

http://i.imgur.com/2QdrSOs.png

 

I'll be looking at this dataset from different analysis points to determine the success, failures and break-evens of both companies.

Thought I’d quote Bosco’ op in this thread. Not one word about media bias or evolutionary biology. Really just about movies and their box offices. 

On 12/5/2023 at 4:51 PM, VintageComics said:

I agree with @CAHokie, that MANY MORE women would prefer to stay at home and raise their children IF THEY COULD. It's in their evolutionary biology and psychology. 

[paperheart]

need to move this thread again, seems like it was too easy for some to find

[VintageComics]

On 12/5/2023 at 5:09 PM, ThothAmon said:

Thought I’d quote Bosco’ op in this thread. Not one word about media bias or evolutionary biology. Really just about movies and their box offices. 

Dude, you've been following me around and talking about me for weeks whenever I post something you don't want to read. There were like 6 different people involved in the conversation, it diverged slightly, as ALL conversations do and now it's over. 

What is wrong with people these days when a few people can't have a polite conversation without everyone always trying to make things worse. Relax and put me on ignore. 

[Bosco685]

Does moderation still offer personal titles?

Option #1 - Love is a wonderful thing

On 12/4/2023 at 9:07 PM, VintageComics said:

I will always be me. I happen to genuinely love myself. It's a beautiful thing.  

 

Option #2 - Adulation o'plenty

On 12/5/2023 at 8:27 AM, VintageComics said:

Well now, Disney's Iger has come out and stated EXACTLY what I've been getting thrashed for, for the last 2 months.

We all truly want Roy to be granted the recognization he deserves. And even better if you can include a flower emoticon to the left and right as an additional badge of honor.

Option #1 - The message is fresh and exciting

🍀 [inserting amazing title] 🍀

Option #2 - The message is so burned out even the flowers are wilting

🥀 [inserting amazing title] 🥀

[Buzzetta]

On 12/5/2023 at 9:29 AM, jaybuck43 said:

Who has said that Disney wasn't putting messages into its films? You've been pilloried because you've acted as if it's a massive conspiracy theory.  From its first full length film Disney has been including "messages" in its storytelling.  The original Disney films were fables (you know, the thing that tells a succulent story that LEADS TO a moral lesson.  You know, messaging.  Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (Vanity will not take you far, kindness will).  Sleeping Beauty (True Love conquers all), Pinnocio (Don't tell lies, I mean if you missed the moral here it was literally beaten into you).

Even the article mentions this.  It also mentions what the real issue is "[Igor] believes the company’s storytelling has suffered as the company has increased the number of movies it’s made for both Disney+ and theatrical release."

 I said the first part of this to him in a previous thread and he ignored it.  Hopefully, this reinforces it.   

 

 

[Buzzetta]

On 12/5/2023 at 10:33 AM, Dr. Balls said:

Making more money is not equal to what their profit margin is - which I don't know if that's disclosed anywhere in annual report information. I mean, you're not wrong about them generating more revenue, but there is a lot of the picture we don't see. As for their messaging, yes - they've always had it, but there's a very large discrepancy between messaging from the 40's to the 2020's:

Pinocchio: Lying is bad.

Falcon and Winter Soldier: Banks don't loan money to black people.

The messaging now is a propagandized tool to help them win a 100% CEI score, which they proudly tout as a badge of honor. They likely encourage the same efforts toward ESG. It's glaringly obvious that Disney's "messaging" is geared more towards tyrannical snowflake brainwashing than the old baseline moral lessons that reinforced a more normal behavior. It's a painfully uncreative, forced, staged and shoehorned narrative into their entertainment, and hopefully losing enough luster that Disney will opt to get rid of the side narratives most people have come to find annoying in the movies and shows.

You know things like this still occur right?   It's sad but true.  In many parts of the country, even here on Long Island, real estate agents continue to push certain families to certain neighborhoods and do not show certain homes in certain neighborhoods to people of color.   There was a big expose about it on Long Island that hit right before the pandemic but got put to the wayside as the world focused on not dying. 

Here, it is one of the few Newsday articles not behind a paywall. 

https://projects.newsday.com/long-island/real-estate-agents-investigation/

People around here did not like discussing this however everyone in town knew about this for years.  A friend of mine is the caucasian male in an interracial marriage.  His wife would look at homes when he was working and he would go when she would.  It was amazing how many more homes were available in certain neighborhoods in certain towns when he was inquiring about homes compared to when she was. 

So, when I saw Falcon and Winter Solider, I nodded in agreement.  While I can only speculate about other areas of the country, at least around here, it happens and probably way more than many want to admit and believe.

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Buzzetta

[Hulksdaddy1]

On 12/5/2023 at 8:27 AM, VintageComics said:

For two months I've been getting lambasted by irate boardies who have tried to oppose me for the central, irrefutable point I've been making.

That point has been that Disney and other corporations have been adulterating the art form by having overarching agendas that have nothing to do with good story telling. 

I've shown my work in longform and in clear detail on how and why. I've been called names for it, ganged up on accused of lying and making things up. I've even been accused of posting things nobody wants to hear about. I've been accusing of talking about politics, when in fact I've only spoken about economics. Meanwhile the people opposed to the discussion are pushing their politics in an effort to drown out the discussion on economics. 

Well, of course you're not going to hear about it if your beliefs are built on a foundation of sand and what I'm saying is toppling your structure. 

I've shown clearly that Disney and competitors have prioritized messaging and virtue signalling over storytelling. It's unequivocal and yet people have their head in the sand and refuse to acknowledge it, let alone prove me wrong. 

Well now, Disney's Iger has come out and stated EXACTLY what I've been getting thrashed for, for the last 2 months.

@PopKulture @Buzzetta @Cat @Hulksdaddy1

@jaybuck43 @delekkerste @Bosco685

Can we have a consensus on this? 

I won't post the entire article, because it contains political speak but you can find it on Social Media. It's a CNBC article. 

Good grief, people, can we finally acknowledge that many had no idea what they were talking about, that some of us did and we can FINALLY bring some normalcy into this place now that the Wizard of Oz behind the curtain has been exposed?

Disney has shown their kink in the armor and it's game over. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Disney CEO Bob Iger says company's movies have been too focused on messaging

Disney CEO Bob Iger acknowledged his company has focused too much on movie messaging and not enough on quality storytelling.

Disney Chief Executive Officer Bob Iger said Wednesday he will no longer tolerate his company's partners and creative team prioritizing messaging over storytelling.

"Creators lost sight of what their No. 1 objective needed to be," Iger said at the DealBook Summit in New York on Wednesday. "We have to entertain first. It's not about messages."

Iger has recently pushed to improve the quality of Disney films in 2024 and beyond. He is cutting back the number of movies Disney makes to focus on making better films. Earlier this week, he told Disney employees at a town hall that creating hit movies is the best way the company can change perception for investors and employees.

Iger said Disney's prioritization of messaging over storytelling peaked "while [he] was gone" in 2022, alluding to the 11 months he left his job as Disney's executive chairman. Iger had been in charge of "creative endeavors" in 2020 and 2021, even while Bob Chapek ran the company as CEO.

I don't remember being too involved in that conversation, or siding with anyone? 

[Hulksdaddy1]

On 12/5/2023 at 10:44 AM, jaybuck43 said:

Profitability per year:

2022         2021      2020       2019     2018        2017       2016

$4,216   $7295       $8717     $8330  $11,237   $11,001  $12,423

You can see the massive drop off when the Netflix deal ends (2019).  And then the ramp up of streaming causes more and more losses.

The reason I use revenue instead of profitability is because revenue corresponds with popularity and use.  Profitability doesn't.  

Inflation skews revenue, so popularity and use will most likely have decreased.

[Cat]

On 12/6/2023 at 12:48 PM, Hulksdaddy1 said:

I don't remember being too involved in that conversation, or siding with anyone? 

Don't worry about it. I had nothing to do with it and still got tagged. 

[Bosco685]

On 12/5/2023 at 11:32 PM, Cat said:

Don't worry about it. I had nothing to do with it and still got tagged. 

[Prince Namor]

On 12/5/2023 at 8:27 PM, VintageComics said:

For two months I've been getting lambasted by irate boardies who have tried to oppose me for the central, irrefutable point I've been making.

That point has been that Disney and other corporations have been adulterating the art form by having overarching agendas that have nothing to do with good story telling. 

And now Bob Iger has proven you're WRONG. Because just like that he can change the direction of the company without any imaginary worry about ESG.

On 12/5/2023 at 8:27 PM, VintageComics said:

I've shown my work in longform and in clear detail on how and why. I've been called names for it, ganged up on accused of lying and making things up. I've even been accused of posting things nobody wants to hear about. I've been accusing of talking about politics, when in fact I've only spoken about economics.

Well THAT is true.

On 12/5/2023 at 8:27 PM, VintageComics said:

I've shown clearly that Disney and competitors have prioritized messaging and virtue signalling over storytelling. It's unequivocal and yet people have their head in the sand and refuse to acknowledge it, let alone prove me wrong. 

Show where anyone denied Disney had a message. That's NOT what was argued. It was that it was a conspiracy you and people like Ethan van Sciver created to promote your political views. 

Everyone here can see how misleading you are in this. It's embarrassing. 

[Prince Namor]

On 12/5/2023 at 10:33 PM, Dr. Balls said:

Making more money is not equal to what their profit margin is - which I don't know if that's disclosed anywhere in annual report information. I mean, you're not wrong about them generating more revenue, but there is a lot of the picture we don't see. As for their messaging, yes - they've always had it, but there's a very large discrepancy between messaging from the 40's to the 2020's:

Pinocchio: Lying is bad.

Falcon and Winter Soldier: Banks don't loan money to black people.

The messaging now is a propagandized tool to help them win a 100% CEI score, which they proudly tout as a badge of honor. They likely encourage the same efforts toward ESG. It's glaringly obvious that Disney's "messaging" is geared more towards tyrannical snowflake brainwashing than the old baseline moral lessons that reinforced a more normal behavior. It's a painfully uncreative, forced, staged and shoehorned narrative into their entertainment, and hopefully losing enough luster that Disney will opt to get rid of the side narratives most people have come to find annoying in the movies and shows.

Strange that you use that as an example, as if that's something that wasn't done before ESG even existed in its current form. I remember in Men in Black 3 (2012), Will Smith getting hassled by Police for having a fancy car... that's just right off the top of my head... what about Enter the Dragon (1973), with the Cops hassling Jim Kelly because he's black... has does ESG figure into any of this?

Sana Amanat created Kamala Khan in 2014 - a character with a true message - before any ESG involvement...

Where's the PROOF for what you're claiming?

HIRING with diversity and protecting the environment are NOT the same thing as creating content. There's ZERO proof ESG has made those decisions regarding CONTENT of programming. Zero Proof. 

Edited December 6, 2023 by Prince Namor

[Prince Namor]

Remember being young, and thinking, I LOVE this. MY superheroes, want to make the world safe for EVERYONE.

At least I did.

Green Lantern in 1970, Captain America in 1990, Archie in the 80's...