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first appearance of adamantium/cgc label question

Started by wtbvcjmoctt-migration,

54 posts in this topic

wtbvcjmoctt-migration

wtbvcjmoctt-migration

Posted
Posted

Hey Fellas.

 

Avengers 66 is the first time the alloy adamantium was mentioned by name in a marvel book, and CGC has been labeling this on their Avengers 66 books as "first appearance of adamantium" or something like that.

 

This is wrong. Yeah here it is first mentioned in a book by name, but it is actually in reference to the adamantium material used in Ultron's armor. That said, the first appearance of adamantium is really Avengers 55 (ultron's first appearance), and thus should be labeled appropriately on a CGC slabbed book. Right?

 

I guess it's similar to Secret Wars 8. CGC slabs these books labeled with something along the lines of "first appearance of symbiote which eventually becomes

venom". Kind of. Same ballpark. I think.

 

Any ideas? I've got both an Avengers 55 and 66 to slab and would be cool to get this on both labels just for fun.

 

 

 

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stanley1883

stanley1883

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Posted

When it is first mentioned is when it officially happened. CGC will not label 2 books with the same thing. If A55 mentioned Adamantium you have a case if not, you don't have an argument. Consider first appearances of a character, a cameo on the last page does not make that issue the first appearance. Thats why Hulk 181 is the valuable book and 180 by comparison is nothing.

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Dr. Balls

Dr. Balls

Posted
Posted

Very similar analogy to Captain Marvel 18 - when Carol Danvers gets blasted with the Kree weapon and turns her into 'Ms Marvel'. She's not regarded as anything in issue 18 other than an innocent bystander, even though in hindsight she was changed into a super powered being with that act.

 

Captain Marvel 18 shouldn't really have any notation at all because nothing in the issue refers to Danvers as having powers at that point. Same thing with Avengers 55, no special notation because even though we see it, it's not really designated as Adamantium until a later issue.

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Cyclops

Cyclops

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Avengers #55 is the first appearance of adamantium in retrospect I suppose. But I think it's more important when it was actually first called adamantium. That is the key.

 

When it is first mentioned is when it officially happened. CGC will not label 2 books with the same thing. If A55 mentioned Adamantium you have a case if not, you don't have an argument. Consider first appearances of a character, a cameo on the last page does not make that issue the first appearance. Thats why Hulk 181 is the valuable book and 180 by comparison is nothing.

 

Hulk #181 is the more valuable book because Wolverine is on the cover, and the entire book is focused on Wolverine.

#180 was the valuable book to begin with until people started saying, "Know what, I get more bang for my buck with 181". And it snowballed from there.

 

#181 is, quite clearly, his second appearance (1st full). Unless we just want to completely disregard the english language.

 

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Jaylam

Jaylam

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It's my understanding that Ultron-5 as seen in the Avengers #55 was not made of adamantium. He appropriated this material from SHIELD via latent subliminal instructions through the Vision and remade himself with it as Ultron-6 in Avengers #66 (as described in Avengers #67 & #68). Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

;)

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wtbvcjmoctt-migration

wtbvcjmoctt-migration

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hmm if you look at a cgc label of 180, id say you are incorrect.

 

that label does in fact say"first appearance of wolverine" on it. it might also say "in cameo appearance", but for the record, CGC is still recognizing this as the numero uno first app of wolvie.

 

hulk 181 might be the more valuable book, but thats not what we are debating here. its all about appearances and thats whats being discussed.

 

come to think of it ultron made his first appearance in avengers 54 as a "cameo" - hes clearly in it, revealed at the end in all his glory although not formally named. this is in the same boat as the adamantium thing - hes mentioned in 55 but hes in 54 and is not credited by CGC for being in it. i think it deserves a label.

 

 

 

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The Less Blob

The Less Blob

Posted
Posted
It's my understanding that Ultron-5 as seen in the Avengers #55 was not made of adamantium. He appropriated this material from SHIELD via latent subliminal instructions through the Vision and remade himself with it as Ultron-6 in Avengers #66 (as described in Avengers #67 & #68). Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

;)

 

wow, when i read that i thought you were just making that up as a joke, but that's what was really in the comics? i don't think i ever read any of those issues...

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crazyhips

crazyhips

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When it is first mentioned is when it officially happened. CGC will not label 2 books with the same thing. If A55 mentioned Adamantium you have a case if not, you don't have an argument. Consider first appearances of a character, a cameo on the last page does not make that issue the first appearance. Thats why Hulk 181 is the valuable book and 180 by comparison is nothing.

 

Umm. Then what about Jimmy Olsen 134? That's pretty cameo by darkseid on the last page.

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DiceX

DiceX

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Nope no joke. Ultron-5 was not adamantium, Ultron 6 (starting in 66) is.

 

And the Wolverine in Hulk 180 isn't the real Wolverine. That was Weapon outside-affiliatelinksnotallowed

Hulk 181 was the first REAL Wolverine.

 

 

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slym2none

slym2none

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Consider first appearances of a character, a cameo on the last page does not make that issue the first appearance.

 

Incorrect.

 

Thats why Hulk 181 is the valuable book and 180 by comparison is nothing.

 

:whistle:

 

 

 

-slym

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sassemble

sassemble

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Nope no joke. Ultron-5 was not adamantium, Ultron 6 (starting in 66) is.

 

+1

 

There is no way adamantium was used in the first Ultron in #55. Roy Thomas said he came up with it for the #66-68 run, according to the intro of the Marvel Masterworks edition.

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Mayor006

Mayor006

Posted
Posted
It's my understanding that Ultron-5 as seen in the Avengers #55 was not made of adamantium. He appropriated this material from SHIELD via latent subliminal instructions through the Vision and remade himself with it as Ultron-6 in Avengers #66 (as described in Avengers #67 & #68). Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

;)

 

Correct sir. I have a couple copies of 66 on hand and did have 55. That is the story I remember as well.

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stanley1883

stanley1883

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Consider first appearances of a character, a cameo on the last page does not make that issue the first appearance.

 

Incorrect.

 

Thats why Hulk 181 is the valuable book and 180 by comparison is nothing.

 

:whistle:

 

 

 

-slym

 

Please elaborate.

 

According to CGC a cameo does not a first appearance make.

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slym2none

slym2none

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How is a cameo that is the first time a character is seen, not a first appearance?

 

IH#181 is the more valuable because the market set it that way. Wolverine is on the cover and appears throughout the issue. It's his first "full" appearance, but IH#180 is still his first appearance.

 

 

 

-slym

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