Reasonable Price for ASM 361 0

[r100comics]

Right about hulk 271 going down in value as more and more of the corrected CGC labels made it into circulation ? Check.

 

Right about asm 361 second print not selling for what it does now as additional copies hit the census and come to market, as the first printing continues to rise, a-la NM 98? Probably right. But as RMA stated, we can only wait and see for that one. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

Because more corrected labels weren't the result of the flood of CGC 9.8 copies and 9.8 floods from CGC never drive down prices (regardless of any issue notes on the label) and that's not the argument you're making about ASM 361 second prints?

 

Actually that has happened multiple times (hulk 181 and x men 94 being two of the most high profile and notorious examples I can think of right off the top of my head). It is generally know that it is a spectacularly bad idea to seek out and pay beyond top dollar for a book simply because it currently "appears rare" or "rare in high grade" on the census. At least if you are concerned about "not losing money on the deal". Particularly with copper age books, where there is very little that is actually "rare".

 

-J.

 

Sandman 8b ?

 

[Jaydogrules]

Right about hulk 271 going down in value as more and more of the corrected CGC labels made it into circulation ? Check.

 

Right about asm 361 second print not selling for what it does now as additional copies hit the census and come to market, as the first printing continues to rise, a-la NM 98? Probably right. But as RMA stated, we can only wait and see for that one. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

Because more corrected labels weren't the result of the flood of CGC 9.8 copies and 9.8 floods from CGC never drive down prices (regardless of any issue notes on the label) and that's not the argument you're making about ASM 361 second prints?

 

Actually that has happened multiple times (hulk 181 and x men 94 being two of the most high profile and notorious examples I can think of right off the top of my head). It is generally know that it is a spectacularly bad idea to seek out and pay beyond top dollar for a book simply because it currently "appears rare" or "rare in high grade" on the census. At least if you are concerned about "not losing money on the deal". Particularly with copper age books, where there is very little that is actually "rare".

 

-J.

 

Sandman 8b ?

 

No. Sandman 8b is in fact verifiably rare, and sells for several hundreds of dollars in even lower grades raw as a result.

 

-J.

[whetteon]

Last sold Amazing Spider-Man #361 CGC 9.6 @ $118

Last sold Amazing Spider-Man #361 CGC 9.6 2nd printing @ $101

 

What are we arguing again? That the comic is rare or are we arguing that it had no value? Because clearly it does have a value. A value that's catching up to the 1st printing very quickly. I call that a trend. That's what I do, I watch for those on Lyria Exchange

Edited October 22, 2014 by whetteon

[Jaydogrules]

Last sold Amazing Spider-Man #361 CGC 9.6 @ $118

Last sold Amazing Spider-Man #361 CGC 9.6 2nd printing @ $101

 

What are we arguing again? That the comic is rare or are we arguing that it had no value? Because clearly it does have a value. A value that's catching up to the 1st printing very quickly. I call that a trend. That's what I do, I watch for those on Lyria Exchange

 

Yes, folks have suggested that it is "rare". I am suggesting that the primary (if not only) reason the second printing has value is because of a mistaken perception of "rarity" that is based entirely on what is currently on the census. Very little from the copper age is actually "rare", and the second printing of asm 361 certainly is not, as evidenced by the 10-20 raw copies that are readily available at anytime.

 

-J.

[whetteon]

Last sold Amazing Spider-Man #361 CGC 9.6 @ $118

Last sold Amazing Spider-Man #361 CGC 9.6 2nd printing @ $101

 

What are we arguing again? That the comic is rare or are we arguing that it had no value? Because clearly it does have a value. A value that's catching up to the 1st printing very quickly. I call that a trend. That's what I do, I watch for those on Lyria Exchange

 

Yes, folks have suggested that it is "rare". I am suggesting that the primary (if not only) reason the second printing has value is because of a mistaken perception of "rarity" that is based entirely on what is currently on the census. Very little from the copper age is actually "rare", and the second printing of asm 361 certainly is not, as evidenced by the 10-20 raw copies that are readily available at anytime.

 

-J.

 

Ah, well I'm not arguing that point. So a for you.

[mysterio]

Last sold Amazing Spider-Man #361 CGC 9.6 @ $118

Last sold Amazing Spider-Man #361 CGC 9.6 2nd printing @ $101

 

What are we arguing again? That the comic is rare or are we arguing that it had no value? Because clearly it does have a value. A value that's catching up to the 1st printing very quickly. I call that a trend. That's what I do, I watch for those on Lyria Exchange

 

Yes, folks have suggested that it is "rare". I am suggesting that the primary (if not only) reason the second printing has value is because of a mistaken perception of "rarity" that is based entirely on what is currently on the census. Very little from the copper age is actually "rare", and the second printing of asm 361 certainly is not, as evidenced by the 10-20 raw copies that are readily available at anytime.

 

-J.

 

The crux of this issue is that relatively speaking, the second print of #361 is much more difficult to find, and find in grade, than the first printing. This does not make it rare in the sense of Gutenberg Bibles or more pedestrian GA comics, but it does mean that it is considerably more difficult to find than the first printing. If a third of the people who want a 9.8 first printing also want a 9.8 second printing, that demand is going to raise the prices on the much more meager supply of the second printing relative to the first.

 

I know that you're arguing that the census is not an accurate representation of the number of copies in the wild, because second printings are not submitted nearly as often as the first. But as an ASM collector I can tell you that I have seen many fewer copies of the second print relative to first prints. I would say that the second prints are roughly 20% of the run of the first prints, based only on my perception of what I have seen. I would be highly skeptical that the number of 9.8 second prints would ever be more than a fraction of the first prints, so if the demand stays high the value of those second prints will continue to rise and may surpass the much more plentiful first prints.

 

Again, the argument is not that the #361 second print is truly rare, just that it is significantly less plentiful (particularly in grade) than the first print. If you're going to argue a point, please start with that interpretation because that is what everyone is saying here.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Last sold Amazing Spider-Man #361 CGC 9.6 @ $118

Last sold Amazing Spider-Man #361 CGC 9.6 2nd printing @ $101

 

What are we arguing again? That the comic is rare or are we arguing that it had no value? Because clearly it does have a value. A value that's catching up to the 1st printing very quickly. I call that a trend. That's what I do, I watch for those on Lyria Exchange

 

Yes, folks have suggested that it is "rare". I am suggesting that the primary (if not only) reason the second printing has value is because of a mistaken perception of "rarity" that is based entirely on what is currently on the census. Very little from the copper age is actually "rare", and the second printing of asm 361 certainly is not, as evidenced by the 10-20 raw copies that are readily available at anytime.

 

-J.

 

Nobody has said what you are suggesting.

 

I'll explain it again: the market is driven by supply AND demand. It is one thing to say "don't go crazy over this, because it's not really going to be that hard to find:"...but that's only part of what fuels demand, and may not be a factor in any particular person's reasoning for buying it.

 

You have said, over and over again, that "very little form the copper age is actually rare"...and you are quite correct. But we are discussing relative situations, in the Copper Age forum. You could say "well, compared to Blood Is The Harvest, nothing from the copper age is rare"...and you would be correct....but most folks understand this, and it needn't be said over and over again.

 

This is an absolute fact: Amazing Spiderman #361 second print is less common, in all grades, than the first print. Because of production questions, it is also much less common in very high grade.

 

This will always be true, barring some bizarre attrition situation regarding the first print (that would likely also affect the second), because the print run for second prints has *always* (with very few exceptions) been smaller, by their very nature.

 

That all said...the second printing of 361 in 9.8 has value because people value it. If it is valued solely because of a "misperception of availability", that will correct itself over time. And that's obviously not the case, even without that "correction." It is a legitimate variant to an important key in the Amazing Spiderman series. and it's less likely to have survived in ultra high grade than the first prints, for the reasons already mentioned.

 

It assumes that there are hordes of raw copies, just waiting to be slabbed, and that's not necessarily true.

 

How long must someone wait...? The spike in price for #301 happened because people got tired of waiting for all those raw 9.8s to show up.

[kimik]

I might have to check my 361 2nd prints now looking at these results.

[Illustrious]

 

 

[mysterio]

That's a nicely centered copy. Mine has a bit more of a miswrap.

[Illustrious]

Most 2nd prints I've seen have some degree of miswrap, seems to have been a reoccurring problem on this issue.

[Jaydogrules]

Most 2nd prints I've seen have some degree of miswrap, seems to have been a reoccurring problem on this issue.

 

The first printings are known to have a similar mis-wrap.

 

-J.

[mr_highgrade]

Last sold Amazing Spider-Man #361 CGC 9.6 @ $118

Last sold Amazing Spider-Man #361 CGC 9.6 2nd printing @ $101

 

What are we arguing again? That the comic is rare or are we arguing that it had no value? Because clearly it does have a value. A value that's catching up to the 1st printing very quickly. I call that a trend. That's what I do, I watch for those on Lyria Exchange

 

Yes, folks have suggested that it is "rare". I am suggesting that the primary (if not only) reason the second printing has value is because of a mistaken perception of "rarity" that is based entirely on what is currently on the census. Very little from the copper age is actually "rare", and the second printing of asm 361 certainly is not, as evidenced by the 10-20 raw copies that are readily available at anytime.

 

-J.

 

Nobody has said what you are suggesting.

 

I'll explain it again: the market is driven by supply AND demand. It is one thing to say "don't go crazy over this, because it's not really going to be that hard to find:"...but that's only part of what fuels demand, and may not be a factor in any particular person's reasoning for buying it.

 

You have said, over and over again, that "very little form the copper age is actually rare"...and you are quite correct. But we are discussing relative situations, in the Copper Age forum. You could say "well, compared to Blood Is The Harvest, nothing from the copper age is rare"...and you would be correct....but most folks understand this, and it needn't be said over and over again.

 

This is an absolute fact: Amazing Spiderman #361 second print is less common, in all grades, than the first print. Because of production questions, it is also much less common in very high grade.

 

This will always be true, barring some bizarre attrition situation regarding the first print (that would likely also affect the second), because the print run for second prints has *always* (with very few exceptions) been smaller, by their very nature.

 

That all said...the second printing of 361 in 9.8 has value because people value it. If it is valued solely because of a "misperception of availability", that will correct itself over time. And that's obviously not the case, even without that "correction." It is a legitimate variant to an important key in the Amazing Spiderman series. and it's less likely to have survived in ultra high grade than the first prints, for the reasons already mentioned.

 

It assumes that there are hordes of raw copies, just waiting to be slabbed, and that's not necessarily true.

 

How long must someone wait...? The spike in price for #301 happened because people got tired of waiting for all those raw 9.8s to show up.

 

 

Everyone knows that the only rare ASM #361 is the newsstand editions.

[showcase22gr1959]

Get all three editions centered. I always love this book.

 

[mr_highgrade]

Get all three editions centered. I always love this book.

 

 

[B-Smooth]

Most 2nd prints I've seen have some degree of miswrap, seems to have been a reoccurring problem on this issue.

 

The first printings are known to have a similar mis-wrap.

 

-J.

Most copies I see have some kind of mis-wrap and small edge cuts on the bottom edge of the back. Good centered copies should have a premium. If they already do not?

[whetteon]

 

 

 

[whetteon]

Get all three editions centered. I always love this book.

 

 

[Guardian Comics]

Last sold Amazing Spider-Man #361 CGC 9.6 @ $118

Last sold Amazing Spider-Man #361 CGC 9.6 2nd printing @ $101

 

What are we arguing again? That the comic is rare or are we arguing that it had no value? Because clearly it does have a value. A value that's catching up to the 1st printing very quickly. I call that a trend. That's what I do, I watch for those on Lyria Exchange

 

Yes, folks have suggested that it is "rare". I am suggesting that the primary (if not only) reason the second printing has value is because of a mistaken perception of "rarity" that is based entirely on what is currently on the census. Very little from the copper age is actually "rare", and the second printing of asm 361 certainly is not, as evidenced by the 10-20 raw copies that are readily available at anytime.

 

-J.

 

Nobody has said what you are suggesting.

 

I'll explain it again: the market is driven by supply AND demand. It is one thing to say "don't go crazy over this, because it's not really going to be that hard to find:"...but that's only part of what fuels demand, and may not be a factor in any particular person's reasoning for buying it.

 

You have said, over and over again, that "very little form the copper age is actually rare"...and you are quite correct. But we are discussing relative situations, in the Copper Age forum. You could say "well, compared to Blood Is The Harvest, nothing from the copper age is rare"...and you would be correct....but most folks understand this, and it needn't be said over and over again.

 

This is an absolute fact: Amazing Spiderman #361 second print is less common, in all grades, than the first print. Because of production questions, it is also much less common in very high grade.

 

This will always be true, barring some bizarre attrition situation regarding the first print (that would likely also affect the second), because the print run for second prints has *always* (with very few exceptions) been smaller, by their very nature.

 

That all said...the second printing of 361 in 9.8 has value because people value it. If it is valued solely because of a "misperception of availability", that will correct itself over time. And that's obviously not the case, even without that "correction." It is a legitimate variant to an important key in the Amazing Spiderman series. and it's less likely to have survived in ultra high grade than the first prints, for the reasons already mentioned.

 

It assumes that there are hordes of raw copies, just waiting to be slabbed, and that's not necessarily true.

 

How long must someone wait...? The spike in price for #301 happened because people got tired of waiting for all those raw 9.8s to show up.

 

 

Everyone knows that the only rare ASM #361 is the newsstand editions.

 

Speaking of which, pulled 3 newsstand ASM #361's out of dealers box yesterday. They were priced at $20. So I grabbed them, and didn't even try to haggle at all. After trying to hand him over my $60, he said to me, those are in my 25% off bins, it's only $45.

 

Jim

[whetteon]

Amazing Spider-Man #361 CGC 9.8 2nd print @ $199.