Manipulation Record Expungement?

[BEAUMONTS]

Looking for several recent threads detailing new manipulation practices released upon the hobby.

 

Does anyone know what happened to these threads...I can't seem to find them?

 

Cole Schave collection: face jobs?

 

Comic Book Spine Realignment Therapy, turn your 8.5's into 9.2's!

 

Insane press and flip Avengers 1

 

 

[Bookery]

I noticed this recently as well. I tried to find the Cole Shave thread through the post I made in it. My post count is X, but the number of posts in my post history is X-1. The one missing post is from the Cole Shave thread. If the thread is not deleted, it is doing a pretty good imitation of being deleted. I've only entered the CGC part of the hobby in 2013. I will tell you it is very hard to be new collector and keep up with all the shenanigans in this hobby. Makes a person not want to be part of the hobby...

It makes a person not want to be a part of the Third Party Grading portion of the hobby. I'm beginning to focus more on ungraded books...

 

Yup.

 

Interesting that this came up today. Yesterday I concluded that the boards had pretty much devolved into nothing of substance lately, and deleted my link to them, prepared to move on. But today I said to myself... no... there is still occasionally useful data emerging, such as these very threads that I may need to refer to from time to time as I may come across such books / issues in my own store. And this is the first thread I read...

 

Now certainly I don't have a problem with CGC deleting individual posts that are clearly libelous, or ones meant to attack businesses or individuals just for the sake of doing so. But a lot of careful work went into tracking some of those books, showing side-by-side comparisons, etc. Sure, all threads get sideswiped by loons eventually, but the good posts shouldn't be dissolved with the useless ones.

 

Anyway... for everyone there is eventually a last straw,so dramatic or otherwise, this is one businessman that bids these boards a final adieu.

 

[Gotham Kid]

What a Revoltin' Development!

 

I started the Spine Realignment Therapy thread to educate folks (including CGC since they obviously didn't know what Mark Wilson, et al were pulling over on them) and protect the consumer. I suspect the JIM 83 "it's trimmed...it's not trimmed...it's a 6.0...no, it's a 7.0...no, it's a 6.0" thread made CGC sensitive to the perception that they may not know what they're doing anymore, so they swept those other threads/issues under the rug and into the abyss of the interwebs. Unfortunately, those all old threads demonstrated that the JIM 83 fiasco was not an isolated incident, but rather, illustrative of a pattern of the shysters always being one step ahead of the graders at CGC.

 

This. Best to keep up appearances.

 

 

[Gotham Kid]

Way to go Mitch for bringing this up ! (thumbs u

[comicdonna]

+1

[comicwiz]

I noticed this recently as well. I tried to find the Cole Shave thread through the post I made in it. My post count is X, but the number of posts in my post history is X-1. The one missing post is from the Cole Shave thread. If the thread is not deleted, it is doing a pretty good imitation of being deleted. I've only entered the CGC part of the hobby in 2013. I will tell you it is very hard to be new collector and keep up with all the shenanigans in this hobby. Makes a person not want to be part of the hobby...

 

Thanks for sharing your views/opinions.

 

There are a number of members here who have put up with undue criticism, vilification, and even have been suspended or outright banned from these boards for sticking their necks out, and trying to make certain information publicly known. For the most part, one of the reasons why people who have taken on the duty of raising awareness did what they did, even when it wasn't popular or was met with ridicule, is exactly to help reduce the opportunity for people like yourself to get burned and too quickly look for the hobby exit.

 

Know, that there is still a great deal of enjoyment to be had in this hobby, and while I won't pass judgement on how anyone ought to pursue theirs, find your sweet spot and try to remain dialed-in enough at least to help yourself avoid the shenanigans. It isn't always fun, but don't let this kind of nonsense wreck it completely for you.

[VintageComics]

Unfortunately, those all old threads demonstrated that the JIM 83 fiasco was not an isolated incident, but rather, illustrative of a pattern of the shysters always being one step ahead of the graders at CGC. Oh well, I hope Mark Zaid can get them to re-instate those informative threads.

 

It's unfortunate that old threads were removed but if people are trying to stay one step ahead of CGC graders, how do you think that leaves those that don't know how to grade or check for resto?

 

We're still miles ahead because

 

a) the issues were brought to light

b) the general collecting public can still apply pressure through ongoing conversation

c) CGC graders are in the top percentile to catch stuff that 99% of people will miss

 

 

[BEAUMONTS]

This is just "white washing" plain and simple. This makes the CGC "brand" look unprofessional and shows the integrity of the grading to be questionable at best.

Being that this is there "dog and pony show" them poofing the "evidence" is not really a surprise.

 

That being said, this does not instill confidence but will perpetuate murmurs and "not" instill confidence in there services. So it will basically be the exact opposite of what the "cover up" is supposed to accomplish. Not sure what Mr. Zaid's roll is with CGC but these types of decisions are questionable.

[VintageComics]

I noticed this recently as well. I tried to find the Cole Shave thread through the post I made in it. My post count is X, but the number of posts in my post history is X-1. The one missing post is from the Cole Shave thread. If the thread is not deleted, it is doing a pretty good imitation of being deleted. I've only entered the CGC part of the hobby in 2013. I will tell you it is very hard to be new collector and keep up with all the shenanigans in this hobby. Makes a person not want to be part of the hobby...

It makes a person not want to be a part of the Third Party Grading portion of the hobby. I'm beginning to focus more on ungraded books...

 

That is what I meant. I was on a tear buying up CGC books I wanted to hold for a long time for about 6 months in 2013 (ASM #1, FF #1, Avengers #1, high grade bronze and minor key silver). By the end of the year I was already selling some. I am selling more now and will probably eventually unload nearly all of them. I am much happier owning raw books.

 

I don't understand.

 

If you're saying you'd rather buy a Superior Spider-man #1 (2013) raw that's one thing.

 

But that you would rather buy an Avengers #1 (1963) raw that I don't understand. You don't think raw Avengers #1 will be manipulated? Manipulation of books has been a part of the hobby since the first printed comics. I'd much rather buy a book from someone trusted whom I know will catch the majority of work done than otherwise.

[VintageComics]

There are a number of members here who have put up with undue criticism, vilification, and even have been suspended or outright banned from these boards for sticking their necks out, and trying to make certain information publicly known. For the most part, one of the reasons why people who have taken on the duty of raising awareness did what they did, even when it wasn't popular or was met with ridicule, is exactly to help reduce the opportunity for people like yourself to get burned and too quickly look for the hobby exit.

 

 

Who has been banned and suspended for sticking their necks out? Plenty of people talk negatively about CGC and are still around.

 

To my memory, the only people who are banned or suspended are those that do it in a disrespectful manner.

[comicwiz]

Anyway... for everyone there is eventually a last straw,so dramatic or otherwise, this is one businessman that bids these boards a final adieu.

 

Can't blame you as I've often thought about doing the same. Although the only reason why I haven't is because it's one less voice to clear-cutting a path of resistance for those who have been using this hobby to stage a perpetual groundhog day scene of taking candy from a kid.

[Gotham Kid]

@Roy

 

So if a new guy to the hobby, or even not so new, finds this place and has questions, don't you think those threads would have been helpful ?

 

Heck, you're even the one that warned me about Wilson and his practices when it came to the Tecs.

[Gotham Kid]

It's exactly because of those threads that I have 1 or 2 more things to look for before even considering a purchase ...

[VintageComics]

@Roy

 

So if a new guy to the hobby, or even not so new, finds this place and has questions, don't you think those threads would have been helpful ?

 

Absolutely. That's why I said it's unfortunate that the threads were removed.

 

 

I just don't believe in throwing out the baby with the bathwater and handing in the towel.

[pickycollector]

I realise that this is CGC's message board and they are entitled to do what they like with it.

 

However, the fact that they appear to have selectively removed many threads that contained information that could put them in a bad light actually makes them look worse in my eyes than the information that was in the threads.

+1,000

[pickycollector]

c) CGC graders are in the top percentile to catch stuff that 99% of people will miss

[gaz973]

@Roy

 

So if a new guy to the hobby, or even not so new, finds this place and has questions, don't you think those threads would have been helpful ?

 

Absolutely. That's why I said it's unfortunate that the threads were removed.

 

 

I just don't believe in throwing out the baby with the bathwater and handing in the towel.

Who is throwing out babies and bathwater?

 

Basically, CGC appear to be deliberately hiding information that could be extremely helpful to the community in general, to stop themselves from looking bad and people aren't happy about that.

 

I'm not sure what positive spin you could put on that.

[pickycollector]

This is just "white washing" plain and simple. This makes the CGC "brand" look unprofessional and shows the integrity of the grading to be questionable at best.

Being that this is there "dog and pony show" them poofing the "evidence" is not really a surprise.

 

That being said, this does not instill confidence but will perpetuate murmurs and "not" instill confidence in there services. So it will basically be the exact opposite of what the "cover up" is supposed to accomplish. Not sure what Mr. Zaid's roll is with CGC but these types of decisions are questionable.

The more time passes, the less confidence I have in buying CGC recently graded books and news like these certainly does not help me re-gain that confidence...

[Mike's Rack]

@Roy

 

So if a new guy to the hobby, or even not so new, finds this place and has questions, don't you think those threads would have been helpful ?

 

Absolutely. That's why I said it's unfortunate that the threads were removed.

 

 

I just don't believe in throwing out the baby with the bathwater and handing in the towel.

Leave it to Roy to throw cold water on a good old fashioned witch burnin'. I agree CGC has done themselves a disservice by deleting these threads. But that doesn't mean that quitting CGC and buying raw is necessarily a better idea.

[VintageComics]

c) CGC graders are in the top percentile to catch stuff that 99% of people will miss

 

I don't know why you're laughing. After spending 10 years here, I'm pretty good at catching resto and grading and I have dealers at shows ask me stuff about grading and resto all the time and they (CGC) catch stuff that I miss all the time.

 

 

I know for a fact that you're a terrific grader. Do you ever miss stuff?

 

I'm not saying they're perfect and I'm not saying someone can't trick a CGC grader but if they get one over on an independant 3rd party grading company that is better than most people at what they do, what chance does the average person have?