Manipulation Record Expungement?

[Mark 1]

How about thank you Bob.

 

Mark Zaid respond yet?

 

Thank you Bob

 

Hope you are feeling better. I better see you at NYCC!

[Mark 1]

How about thank you Bob.

I may have PM'd first.

 

Where's my thank you.

 

Thanks Gaz!

[gaz973]

Thanks to CGC for reinstating the threads. I believe it's a positive move for everyone.

[Davenport]

Unfortunately, those all old threads demonstrated that the JIM 83 fiasco was not an isolated incident, but rather, illustrative of a pattern of the shysters always being one step ahead of the graders at CGC. Oh well, I hope Mark Zaid can get them to re-instate those informative threads.

 

It's unfortunate that old threads were removed but if people are trying to stay one step ahead of CGC graders, how do you think that leaves those that don't know how to grade or check for resto?

 

We're still miles ahead because

 

a) the issues were brought to light

b) the general collecting public can still apply pressure through ongoing conversation

c) CGC graders are in the top percentile to catch stuff that 99% of people will miss

 

 

You have to be the biggest CGC apologist i've seen yet.

This thread is surprising. Not because threads were deleted, that's been both typical and predictable.

 

But not-so-long ago it would've been VintageComicsx1000 and you all would've been labeled as a bunch anti-CGC "purist" whiners. Crazy folk with an ax to grind.

[VintageComics]

Unfortunately, those all old threads demonstrated that the JIM 83 fiasco was not an isolated incident, but rather, illustrative of a pattern of the shysters always being one step ahead of the graders at CGC. Oh well, I hope Mark Zaid can get them to re-instate those informative threads.

 

It's unfortunate that old threads were removed but if people are trying to stay one step ahead of CGC graders, how do you think that leaves those that don't know how to grade or check for resto?

 

We're still miles ahead because

 

a) the issues were brought to light

b) the general collecting public can still apply pressure through ongoing conversation

c) CGC graders are in the top percentile to catch stuff that 99% of people will miss

 

 

You have to be the biggest CGC apologist i've seen yet.

 

Nice. You can't help but drag a conversation down to name calling. That's very big of you.

 

All I said was that even though it's unfortunate that the threads were removed (even if it was only temporarily) CGC will still catch more in grading a book than the average person. WAY more.

 

Feel free to take a swipe if you need to. (thumbs u

[DrWatson]

Unfortunately, those all old threads demonstrated that the JIM 83 fiasco was not an isolated incident, but rather, illustrative of a pattern of the shysters always being one step ahead of the graders at CGC. Oh well, I hope Mark Zaid can get them to re-instate those informative threads.

 

It's unfortunate that old threads were removed but if people are trying to stay one step ahead of CGC graders, how do you think that leaves those that don't know how to grade or check for resto?

 

We're still miles ahead because

 

a) the issues were brought to light

b) the general collecting public can still apply pressure through ongoing conversation

c) CGC graders are in the top percentile to catch stuff that 99% of people will miss

 

 

You have to be the biggest CGC apologist i've seen yet.

This thread is surprising. Not because threads were deleted, that's been both typical and predictable.

 

But not-so-long ago it would've been VintageComicsx1000 and you all would've been labeled as a bunch anti-CGC "purist" whiners. Crazy folk with an ax to grind.

More people are looking behind the curtain. Oh, and you're still a crazy nutjob.

 

[Mike's Rack]

Unfortunately, those all old threads demonstrated that the JIM 83 fiasco was not an isolated incident, but rather, illustrative of a pattern of the shysters always being one step ahead of the graders at CGC. Oh well, I hope Mark Zaid can get them to re-instate those informative threads.

 

It's unfortunate that old threads were removed but if people are trying to stay one step ahead of CGC graders, how do you think that leaves those that don't know how to grade or check for resto?

 

We're still miles ahead because

 

a) the issues were brought to light

b) the general collecting public can still apply pressure through ongoing conversation

c) CGC graders are in the top percentile to catch stuff that 99% of people will miss

 

 

You have to be the biggest CGC apologist i've seen yet.

I'm with Roy on this. CGC's opinion is still better than 99% of the people out there. I don't think I am the only one that has purchased books from people that I respect (and still do) only to later find that they had resto that he and I both missed. This debate seems to take place in extremes - CGC's opinion is worth nothing vs. CGC is the final infallible arbitrator.

 

I take neither of these positions. I believe CGC's opinion as to grade or resto is worth paying a premium for, but I know stuff can and does get past them. I consider this risk when I buy a CGC book. If I believed that CGC was perfect and graded consistently 100% of the time and caught resto 100% of the time, I would pay much more of a premium. The problem seems to be that it appears a lot of people thought CGC was pretty close to infallible and started paying a premium for CGC books based on this assumption. These incidents have shaken their faith. However, if you look at CGC less like an all powerful deity and more like a skilled, experienced craftsman, these incidents don't hurt as bad.

[VintageComics]

This thread is surprising. Not because threads were deleted, that's been both typical and predictable.

 

But not-so-long ago it would've been VintageComicsx1000 and you all would've been labeled as a bunch anti-CGC "purist" whiners. Crazy folk with an ax to grind.

 

That's entirely untrue.

 

The hobby is not divided into 2 exclusive groups and there will always be hecklers on all sides. Your constant 'sound byte' posting style is simply an attempt at divisive conversation and you are just as guilty as those "bunch anti-CGC "purist" whiners".

 

Not a single person agreed to the removal of the threads as being beneficial, but you guys go on seeing what you want to see.

 

When there's a mob, anybody that stops to think first will be considered guilty.

 

Thanks for making the call, Bob. (thumbs u

[VintageComics]

I'm with Roy on this. CGC's opinion is still better than 99% of the people out there. I don't think I am the only one that has purchased books from people that I respect (and still do) only to later find that they had resto that he and I both missed. This debate seems to take place in extremes - CGC's opinion is worth nothing vs. CGC is the final infallible arbitrator.

 

I take neither of these positions. I believe CGC's opinion as to grade or resto is worth paying a premium for, but I know stuff can and does get past them. I consider this risk when I buy a CGC book. If I believed that CGC was perfect and graded consistently 100% of the time and caught resto 100% of the time, I would pay much more of a premium. The problem seems to be that it appears a lot of people thought CGC was pretty close to infallible and started paying a premium for CGC books based on this assumption. These incidents have shaken their faith. However, if you look at CGC less like an all powerful deity and more like a skilled, experienced craftsman, these incidents don't hurt as bad.

 

(thumbs u

 

If your world isn't all 'black and white' then it starts to take a very different appearance.

 

[blazingbob]

Mine is black and white.

 

I am not really sure why threads have to go "viral" when a simple call or email could have calmed everybody down. The "CGC sucks" or "they are attempting to hide the truth" posts make more sense if CGC had really come out and stated that they deleted these threads. And I would have agreed with some posters that CGC is not making a very smart choice.

 

But typical with many threads it is shoot first, put another bullet in the head just to make sure and ask questions later.

[Balham's Finest]

We are working to get them restored.

 

It would be nice to have an explanation as to why they were removed in the first place and a reassurance that threads like that won't be poofed again without a good reason.

[paperheart]

How about thank you Bob.

 

Mark Zaid respond yet?

 

[Davenport]

Unfortunately, those all old threads demonstrated that the JIM 83 fiasco was not an isolated incident, but rather, illustrative of a pattern of the shysters always being one step ahead of the graders at CGC. Oh well, I hope Mark Zaid can get them to re-instate those informative threads.

 

It's unfortunate that old threads were removed but if people are trying to stay one step ahead of CGC graders, how do you think that leaves those that don't know how to grade or check for resto?

 

We're still miles ahead because

 

a) the issues were brought to light

b) the general collecting public can still apply pressure through ongoing conversation

c) CGC graders are in the top percentile to catch stuff that 99% of people will miss

 

 

You have to be the biggest CGC apologist i've seen yet.

This thread is surprising. Not because threads were deleted, that's been both typical and predictable.

 

But not-so-long ago it would've been VintageComicsx1000 and you all would've been labeled as a bunch anti-CGC "purist" whiners. Crazy folk with an ax to grind.

More people are looking behind the curtain. Oh, and you're still a crazy nutjob.

 

Yeah, I know.

 

Oh, and WTTNH.

(welcome to the nut house)

[Mark 1]

Unfortunately, those all old threads demonstrated that the JIM 83 fiasco was not an isolated incident, but rather, illustrative of a pattern of the shysters always being one step ahead of the graders at CGC. Oh well, I hope Mark Zaid can get them to re-instate those informative threads.

 

It's unfortunate that old threads were removed but if people are trying to stay one step ahead of CGC graders, how do you think that leaves those that don't know how to grade or check for resto?

 

We're still miles ahead because

 

a) the issues were brought to light

b) the general collecting public can still apply pressure through ongoing conversation

c) CGC graders are in the top percentile to catch stuff that 99% of people will miss

 

 

You have to be the biggest CGC apologist i've seen yet.

 

Nice. You can't help but drag a conversation down to name calling. That's very big of you.

 

All I said was that even though it's unfortunate that the threads were removed (even if it was only temporarily) CGC will still catch more in grading a book than the average person. WAY more.

 

Feel free to take a swipe if you need to. (thumbs u

 

I'm not calling you names. I stating that you apologize for CGC at almost every turn. I've seen you defend them in almost every thread that pops up with anything negative about them.

 

I think you see CGC through rose colored glasses and just have too much invested in their service, pressing, and selling slabs.

 

I also don't agree the threads should have been taken down and now put back up only because someone noticed it.

 

What if nobody had called it out? Those threads would still be gone.

 

I believe CGC has the knowledge about grading and like all humans, fluctuate in quality and service. However, there are plenty of collectors and dealers out there that can rival CGC's grading and resto check.

 

 

[blazingbob]

I have a lot invested in their grading and service.

 

Someone did notice the threads were missing and automatically is was assumed CGC was hiding the truth. Not exactly true but that's the majority of the posts.

 

What if nobody called it out? I doubt it.

 

Everybody does know that all these threads take up space on servers, eventually things have to get archived if the DBA is doing his job correctly. Sometimes things get deleted by mistake. But hey, don't let me get "black/white" in here.

[Hulksdaddy1]

We are working to get them restored.

 

It would be nice to have an explanation as to why they were removed in the first place and a reassurance that threads like that won't be poofed again without a good reason.

 

 

Quoted so it's not missed.

[drbanner]

We are working to get them restored.

Great, thanks Paul (and Bob )!

[Flaming_Telepath]

And it appears that the 'CGC Comments Regarding the JIM 83' thread is now locked?

 

And there doesn't appear to be any of the usual attempts to derail and get it locked?

 

Strange.

[Gotham Kid]

[thehumantorch]

Anyway... for everyone there is eventually a last straw,so dramatic or otherwise, this is one businessman that bids these boards a final adieu.

 

I hope you don't leave. I enjoy your posts very much.

 

Have to agree Andy. Always well written and interesting.