Cole Schave collection: face jobs?

[DrWatson]

I still subscribe to the theory it is caused by the trimming process and where the book was at in the stack as it was being trimmed.

 

I believe Dice said that books (ie. comics and magazines) were trimmed individually and not stacked.

 

 

They were individually trimmed.

They were trimmed after they were completely assembled, folded and stapled.

Trimming the three sides, individually, is the final step in production.

 

That's the last time I'll say it. I'm tired of repeating the same thing over and over. If someone doesn't believe it, they'll never believe it if I say it once more or a thousand more times.

I'm done.

 

 

So you are saying they trimmed more than one at a time?

 

 

Yes. They are stacked into a pile where a pack of beavers walk by and gnaw them down to the proper size, then use the trimmings to build dams.

If anyone gives a dam, it's the beavers.

I wouldn't trust those beavers. They're prone to PMS.

[Hero Restoration]

 

They were individually trimmed.

They were trimmed after they were completely assembled, folded and stapled.

Trimming the three sides, individually, is the final step in production.

 

 

I disagree.

Just don't want to go into details......

 

 

 

 

I disagree.

Just don't want to go into details......

[batman_fan]

 

They were individually trimmed.

They were trimmed after they were completely assembled, folded and stapled.

Trimming the three sides, individually, is the final step in production.

 

 

I disagree.

Just don't want to go into details......

 

 

 

 

Complete tease !

[comicdonna]

 

They were individually trimmed.

They were trimmed after they were completely assembled, folded and stapled.

Trimming the three sides, individually, is the final step in production.

 

 

I disagree.

Just don't want to go into details......

 

 

 

 

I disagree.

Just don't want to go into details......

I'm speechless.

[DiceX]

 

They were individually trimmed.

They were trimmed after they were completely assembled, folded and stapled.

Trimming the three sides, individually, is the final step in production.

 

 

I disagree.

Just don't want to go into details......

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hero Restoration]

 

They were individually trimmed.

They were trimmed after they were completely assembled, folded and stapled.

Trimming the three sides, individually, is the final step in production.

 

 

I disagree.

Just don't want to go into details......

 

 

 

 

 

 

Okay, to make sure we are one the same page, this is a debate whether the books were trimmed individually or in stacks right?

[THE_BEYONDER]

 

They were individually trimmed.

They were trimmed after they were completely assembled, folded and stapled.

Trimming the three sides, individually, is the final step in production.

 

 

I disagree.

Just don't want to go into details......

 

 

 

 

 

 

Shut it hippie

[DiceX]

 

They were individually trimmed.

They were trimmed after they were completely assembled, folded and stapled.

Trimming the three sides, individually, is the final step in production.

 

 

I disagree.

Just don't want to go into details......

 

 

 

 

 

 

Okay, to make sure we are one the same page, this is a debate whether the books were trimmed individually or in stacks right?

 

I was unaware of any debate.

 

 

[drbanner]

Did someone mention trimmed beaver?

[Gotham Kid]

We need pics up in here

[Aman619]

stacked trimming is very common in the production of many paper products.

[Hero Restoration]

stacked trimming is very common in the production of many paper products.

 

Sure, but what is the sheet limit? 18, 30 50, 100? And are we talking about one side or multi?

 

 

[sborock]

Sorry, did not mean to do a "post and run". My daughter called me to come pick her up from Sunday night youth group and I needed to make her some dinner before bed. (School night)

 

Dice is not 100% wrong about how some places printed books at a certain time, but he is not 100% correct either.

 

Different companies at different times "cut and bound" books in different ways.

 

It's scary to me that collectors will now think that any book that was maufactured with a short cover or a crooked cover is now trimmed or pressed incorrectly.

 

I can tell the difference between a "Cosanza" book and one that is not, most of the time.

I can tell when a book is trimmed most of the time. (A perfect micro trimming is almost impossible to detect without before and after scans, I don't care what anyone says, it's a 50/50 guess. I (we) will have to live with that, if we want to keep buying books from most dealers and collectors.)

I can tell if a book has lost gloss from presssing or just natural causes, most of the time.

I can tell if a book was solvent washed, most of the time.

I can tell if a book has "reverse" spine roll, most of the time.

 

There's more, but I think you folks get what I am trying to say. I also made sure I wrote "most of the time", because no one catches these things 100% of the time. No one. Also, new ways of screwing with a book seem to come to light every year. And, yes, many times, it all because of money. I have not had a problem with pressing since I found out about it in the 80's. I do have a problem with people going the "extra mile" to "squeeze" more money out of a book by pushing the pressing to the point that the book no longer looks natural, or worse, ruins the book.

 

For the people on the boards that don't know me:

I am not "thumping my chest" and I am not posting this like "I can weight lift x number of pounds", "I am a martial arts expert", and all those other things people say on the boards to "prove themselves".

 

I just keep shaking my head reading some of the stuff posted as fact by some here, even some high end players. Thing's like "Marvel over-hangs were not there when the books were bought off the shelves." (BS!) and other things like that.

 

I grew up in a printing family, as well as worked in printing, on and off most of my life, until I was twenty-two. I have also collected and studied comics since I can remember. Getting ripped off by buying restored as un-restored, helped me learn quite a bit. I have had "trial by fire" when I helped open CGC and was the their orignal restoration detection expert and primary grader (finalizer).

 

I have, and always will, help collectors and dealers with a free restoration check at conventions. I have saved many people thousands of dollars, many that are on, or used to be on, these boards. I used to give away my detection methods for free, as I thought I was helping the hobby. I probably was, but I was also costing myself a fortune and teaching some people how to "not get caught". That's why I no longer come into these threads and explain whyI think someone is right or wrong. I would also get sucked into debates with people that have no agenda other than pushing peoples buttons. I don't need mine pushed. So, now, If I work one on one with someone, I will sometimes show them how to detect certain things. If it's a great friend, I will help them out with some detection methods. I will also do it if $ is donated to charity (one of my choice).

 

Anyway, it's a shame that these books got damaged by the presser and missed by CGC. mess happens.

 

Be aware, just don't be too paranoid. It will hurt the fun you have in this great hobby, and that's waaaaaay worse than a properly pressed or properly dry cleaned book.

 

End of

[batman_fan]

Sorry, did not mean to do a "post and run". My daughter called me to come pick her up from Sunday night youth group and I needed to make her some dinner before bed. (School night)

 

Dice is not 100% wrong about how some places printed books at a certain time, but he is not 100% correct either.

 

Different companies at different times "cut and bound" books in different ways.

 

It's scary to me that collectors will now think that any book that was maufactured with a short cover or a crooked cover is now trimmed or pressed incorrectly.

 

I can tell the difference between a "Cosanza" book and one that is not, most of the time.

I can tell when a book is trimmed most of the time. (A perfect micro trimming is almost impossible to detect without before and after scans, I don't care what anyone says, it's a 50/50 guess. I (we) will have to live with that, if we want to keep buying books from most dealers and collectors.)

I can tell if a book has lost gloss from presssing or just natural causes, most of the time.

I can tell if a book was solvent washed, most of the time.

I can tell if a book has "reverse" spine roll, most of the time.

 

There's more, but I think you folks get what I am trying to say. I also made sure I wrote "most of the time", because no one catches these things 100% of the time. No one. Also, new ways of screwing with a book seem to come to light every year. And, yes, many times, it all because of money. I have not had a problem with pressing since I found out about it in the 80's. I do have a problem with people going the "extra mile" to "squeeze" more money out of a book by pushing the pressing to the point that the book no longer looks natural, or worse, ruins the book.

 

For the people on the boards that don't know me:

I am not "thumping my chest" and I am not posting this like "I can weight lift x number of pounds", "I am a martial arts expert", and all those other things people say on the boards to "prove themselves".

 

I just keep shaking my head reading some of the stuff posted as fact by some here, even some high end players. Thing's like "Marvel over-hangs were not there when the books were bought off the shelves." (BS!) and other things like that.

 

I grew up in a printing family, as well as worked in printing, on and off most of my life, until I was twenty-two. I have also collected and studied comics since I can remember. Getting ripped off by buying restored as un-restored, helped me learn quite a bit. I have had "trial by fire" when I helped open CGC and was the their orignal restoration detection expert and primary grader (finalizer).

 

I have, and always will, help collectors and dealers with a free restoration check at conventions. I have saved many people thousands of dollars, many that are on, or used to be on, these boards. I used to give away my detection methods for free, as I thought I was helping the hobby. I probably was, but I was also costing myself a fortune and teaching some people how to "not get caught". That's why I no longer come into these threads and explain whyI think someone is right or wrong. I would also get sucked into debates with people that have no agenda other than pushing peoples buttons. I don't need mine pushed. So, now, If I work one on one with someone, I will sometimes show them how to detect certain things. If it's a great friend, I will help them out with some detection methods. I will also do it if $ is donated to charity (one of my choice).

 

Anyway, it's a shame that these books got damaged by the presser and missed by CGC. mess happens.

 

Be aware, just don't be too paranoid. It will hurt the fun you have in this great hobby, and that's waaaaaay worse than a properly pressed or properly dry cleaned book.

 

End of

 

Thanks for posting Steve. Can you go into some more details on the various manufacturing process used over time by the various companies producing comics to help set the record straight? I think it would be good to get people on a more solid footing.

 

P.S. how much weight can you lift?

[Moondog]

Sorry, did not mean to do a "post and run". My daughter called me to come pick her up from Sunday night youth group and I needed to make her some dinner before bed. (School night)

 

Dice is not 100% wrong about how some places printed books at a certain time, but he is not 100% correct either.

 

Different companies at different times "cut and bound" books in different ways.

 

It's scary to me that collectors will now think that any book that was maufactured with a short cover or a crooked cover is now trimmed or pressed incorrectly.

 

I can tell the difference between a "Cosanza" book and one that is not, most of the time.

I can tell when a book is trimmed most of the time. (A perfect micro trimming is almost impossible to detect without before and after scans, I don't care what anyone says, it's a 50/50 guess. I (we) will have to live with that, if we want to keep buying books from most dealers and collectors.)

I can tell if a book has lost gloss from presssing or just natural causes, most of the time.

I can tell if a book was solvent washed, most of the time.

I can tell if a book has "reverse" spine roll, most of the time.

 

There's more, but I think you folks get what I am trying to say. I also made sure I wrote "most of the time", because no one catches these things 100% of the time. No one. Also, new ways of screwing with a book seem to come to light every year. And, yes, many times, it all because of money. I have not had a problem with pressing since I found out about it in the 80's. I do have a problem with people going the "extra mile" to "squeeze" more money out of a book by pushing the pressing to the point that the book no longer looks natural, or worse, ruins the book.

 

For the people on the boards that don't know me:

I am not "thumping my chest" and I am not posting this like "I can weight lift x number of pounds", "I am a martial arts expert", and all those other things people say on the boards to "prove themselves".

 

I just keep shaking my head reading some of the stuff posted as fact by some here, even some high end players. Thing's like "Marvel over-hangs were not there when the books were bought off the shelves." (BS!) and other things like that.

 

I grew up in a printing family, as well as worked in printing, on and off most of my life, until I was twenty-two. I have also collected and studied comics since I can remember. Getting ripped off by buying restored as un-restored, helped me learn quite a bit. I have had "trial by fire" when I helped open CGC and was the their orignal restoration detection expert and primary grader (finalizer).

 

I have, and always will, help collectors and dealers with a free restoration check at conventions. I have saved many people thousands of dollars, many that are on, or used to be on, these boards. I used to give away my detection methods for free, as I thought I was helping the hobby. I probably was, but I was also costing myself a fortune and teaching some people how to "not get caught". That's why I no longer come into these threads and explain whyI think someone is right or wrong. I would also get sucked into debates with people that have no agenda other than pushing peoples buttons. I don't need mine pushed. So, now, If I work one on one with someone, I will sometimes show them how to detect certain things. If it's a great friend, I will help them out with some detection methods. I will also do it if $ is donated to charity (one of my choice).

 

Anyway, it's a shame that these books got damaged by the presser and missed by CGC. mess happens.

 

Be aware, just don't be too paranoid. It will hurt the fun you have in this great hobby, and that's waaaaaay worse than a properly pressed or properly dry cleaned book.

 

End of

 

Very nice. Maybe this "fun" thing you speak of will grow throughout the land.

[sborock]

 

Thanks for posting Steve. Can you go into some more details on the various manufacturing process used over time by the various companies producing comics to help set the record straight? I think it would be good to get people on a more solid footing.

 

P.S. how much weight can you lift?

 

Can't lift anything more than a longbox of comics, can't punch my way out of a paper bag

 

Sorry, but it would take too much time to type all that out (I am a two-finger typer). That was probably my longest post in years. I also don't need to cost myself money. This is how I make my living and support my family. I don't want to help some of the others who are buying the same books for re-sale that I am.

 

I would be happy to talk with you about it and give you some pointers at a convention sometime.

[Randall Dowling]

Awesome post, Steve. Thanks for taking the time to write it. (thumbs u

[Icculus308win]

Indeed very nice Steve.

Thank-you for extending some of your extensive professional and personal knowledge from the years in the industries as a hobbyist/collector and as a profession.

 

[sborock]

 

Very nice. Maybe this "fun" thing you speak of will grow throughout the land.

 

Gary- I can imagine hearing Woody Guthrie or Pete Seeger singing about this right now (thumbs u

[drbanner]

I just keep shaking my head reading some of the stuff posted as fact by some here, even some high end players. Thing's like "Marvel over-hangs were not there when the books were bought off the shelves."

(thumbs u