Cole Schave collection: face jobs?

[ciorac]

Let's say I buy a book off the boards or Ebay and it's listed as FN and when I receive it it's actually a VG. When I put this to the seller they state that according to their standards it is a FN and when I politely ask to have those standards explained to me they reply with - "sorry, that's propriety information." What would be the best type of response in that situation?

 

I would not have asked them to explain their grading standards. I would have just returned the book if you thought you over paid and/or it was over graded.

 

But how do you determine if it is 'over graded' if you don't know what the standards are?

 

When grading a book for sale am I allowed to use Overstreet standards without their permission?

 

you grade it against your own personal standards. If it fits, keep it. If it doesn't, don't. You do not need someone else to tell you what is acceptable, or should be acceptable to you I should imagine

 

If everybody buys or sells based on their own personal standards then is there any need for an 'industry standard'?

 

there is a "collective wisdom" or "popular opinion" about what a VG is for instance. But you, and the rest of us, are certainly free to have our own standards of what is acceptable in YOUR collection. Not all VGs are created equal. i see some that i like and agree with the grade and buy. i see others i don't like, but agree with the grade and don't buy. Certain defects can be pet peeves, yet generally allowable in certain grades, by generally accepted rules.

 

 

[DrWatson]

Let's say I buy a book off the boards or Ebay and it's listed as FN and when I receive it it's actually a VG. When I put this to the seller they state that according to their standards it is a FN and when I politely ask to have those standards explained to me they reply with - "sorry, that's propriety information." What would be the best type of response in that situation?

 

I would not have asked them to explain their grading standards. I would have just returned the book if you thought you over paid and/or it was over graded.

 

But how do you determine if it is 'over graded' if you don't know what the standards are?

 

When grading a book for sale am I allowed to use Overstreet standards without their permission?

 

you grade it against your own personal standards. If it fits, keep it. If it doesn't, don't. You do not need someone else to tell you what is acceptable, or should be acceptable to you I should imagine

 

If everybody buys or sells based on their own personal standards then is there any need for an 'industry standard'?

There has to be a standard. Otherwise, how could there be a deviation?

[sborock]

There has to be a standard. Otherwise, how could there be a deviation?

 

You just like deviation

[DrWatson]

There has to be a standard. Otherwise, how could there be a deviation?

You just like deviation

I prefer the term "left of center."

[blazingbob]

Is this some of the "Overstreet Advisor" wisdom?

 

No wonder nobody knows how to grade.

 

There are written standards, to bad none of the "Advisors" ever advised the masses how to grade. They have their pictures in a book and pretty much do nothing else.

 

 

[comicdonna]

[DrWatson]

Is this some of the "Overstreet Advisor" wisdom?

 

No wonder nobody knows how to grade.

 

There are written standards, to bad none of the "Advisors" ever advised the masses how to grade. They have their pictures in a book and pretty much do nothing else.

If only you were a tad more photogenic...

[ciorac]

Is this some of the "Overstreet Advisor" wisdom?

 

No wonder nobody knows how to grade.

 

There are written standards, to bad none of the "Advisors" ever advised the masses how to grade. They have their pictures in a book and pretty much do nothing else.

 

 

Maybe it is Bob. I don't get returns on my grades when I sell raw comics, so i must have learned to grade somewhere along the way.

 

Haven't you? Or do you simply rely on CGC to do all your grading for you?

 

The question I was answering was about whether he should return a book because the seller wouldn't share with him his grading standards. It was a hypothetical query I assume to take a shot at CGC not listing their standards somewhere.

 

I'm not sure what question you are trying to answer

 

Or are you just being grumpy gus again?

[Davenport]

Daaa-yum.

It's about to get real all up in heya.

[VintageComics]

Let's say I buy a book off the boards or Ebay and it's listed as FN and when I receive it it's actually a VG. When I put this to the seller they state that according to their standards it is a FN and when I politely ask to have those standards explained to me they reply with - "sorry, that's propriety information." What would be the best type of response in that situation?

 

I would not have asked them to explain their grading standards. I would have just returned the book if you thought you over paid and/or it was over graded.

 

But how do you determine if it is 'over graded' if you don't know what the standards are?

 

When grading a book for sale am I allowed to use Overstreet standards without their permission?

 

you grade it against your own personal standards. If it fits, keep it. If it doesn't, don't. You do not need someone else to tell you what is acceptable, or should be acceptable to you I should imagine

 

If everybody buys or sells based on their own personal standards then is there any need for an 'industry standard'?

 

Even 'industry standards' are up for interpretation.

 

 

[Moondog]

Is this some of the "Overstreet Advisor" wisdom?

 

No wonder nobody knows how to grade.

 

There are written standards, to bad none of the "Advisors" ever advised the masses how to grade. They have their pictures in a book and pretty much do nothing else.

 

 

! C'mon, Bob, you know the reason that the great majority of collectors can't grade is because they don't want or care to know.

 

CGC has taken this burden off their shoulders.

 

It doesn't matter what OPG advisors do or don't do. In nearly 40 years only one collector has ever asked me to show him how to grade. That was back in the 80s and he ended up working for me.

 

Today those lessons would cost him $100 / hour.

 

And yes, we all know what a VG is.

 

[Logan510]

Any collector who doesn't know how to grade and wants to learn should just buy a copy of the OSPG. Their standards may not be perfect, but it's a nice template to start out with

[blazingbob]

I have learned how to grade because I compared my grades with other collectors before I eventually became a dealer. And when I worked for Vinny we compared grades all the time. When CGC game along I reviewed my grades by getting books CGC graded, I asked again if I wasn't getting consistent grades back from CGC.

 

Which is why I continually bring up in threads after 40+ years this hobby still has issues with people not knowing how to grade. So I ask myself what are the Overstreet Advisors supposed to do? Advise? Teach people to grade? Obviously not. Let somebody else do it.

 

Read a grading book? Lots of books are interpreted wrong. I asked NOD/AACC or whoever that latest association is that if they wanted to be taken seriously teach people how to grade and you will change this hobby. This has been a bigger issue than anything else in this hobby for the last 40 years.

 

 

[Timely]

Is this some of the "Overstreet Advisor" wisdom?

 

No wonder nobody knows how to grade.

 

There are written standards, to bad none of the "Advisors" ever advised the masses how to grade. They have their pictures in a book and pretty much do nothing else.

 

 

! C'mon, Bob, you know the reason that the great majority of collectors can't grade is because they don't want or care to know.

 

CGC has taken this burden off their shoulders.

 

It doesn't matter what OPG advisors do or don't do. In nearly 40 years only one collector has ever asked me to show him how to grade. That was back in the 80s and he ended up working for me.

 

Today those lessons would cost him $100 / hour.

 

And yes, we all know what a VG is.

 

VG is Very Good. Very Good is 4.0 See, I'm advising... and free of charge!

[Randall Dowling]

And yes, we all know what a VG is.

 

Based on how much people respond to them, I assumed VG was short for Vegan.

 

Did I get it right?

[batman_fan]

Let's say I buy a book off the boards or Ebay and it's listed as FN and when I receive it it's actually a VG. When I put this to the seller they state that according to their standards it is a FN and when I politely ask to have those standards explained to me they reply with - "sorry, that's propriety information." What would be the best type of response in that situation?

 

I would not have asked them to explain their grading standards. I would have just returned the book if you thought you over paid and/or it was over graded.

 

But how do you determine if it is 'over graded' if you don't know what the standards are?

 

When grading a book for sale am I allowed to use Overstreet standards without their permission?

 

One of the best thing I remember from the 1st decent Phoenix shows back in the 90's. Motor City had a pretty big booth (I bought a Batman 3 and 64 from them that I still have). Some guy kept picking up books and saying "what do you grade this" and the guy working at Motor City kept saying "I don't grade books, I price them". I actually think that is a pretty fair statement given how everyone has slightly (or significantly) different grading standards.

[batman_fan]

Let's say I buy a book off the boards or Ebay and it's listed as FN and when I receive it it's actually a VG. When I put this to the seller they state that according to their standards it is a FN and when I politely ask to have those standards explained to me they reply with - "sorry, that's propriety information." What would be the best type of response in that situation?

 

I would not have asked them to explain their grading standards. I would have just returned the book if you thought you over paid and/or it was over graded.

 

But how do you determine if it is 'over graded' if you don't know what the standards are?

 

When grading a book for sale am I allowed to use Overstreet standards without their permission?

 

you grade it against your own personal standards. If it fits, keep it. If it doesn't, don't. You do not need someone else to tell you what is acceptable, or should be acceptable to you I should imagine

 

dead nuts on (thumbs u

[blazingbob]

If somebody tells me that they don't care or don't want to know then by all means you get what is handed to you. But as a seller should I encourage that? Send them along as a poster stated to get "fleeced". But please don't assume that I think every person behind a table knows what they are doing and that I should be shy about asking them who taught them how to grade.

 

CGC is popular because they are "supposedly" a neutral grading committee whereby the dealer/buyer argue over price versus "What's the grade/then we discuss the price". Add in GPA to track sales and you have a retail market that is a little easier to navigate.

 

 

[ciorac]

Advisors advise. We advise Bob Overstreet on prices, trends, historical information uncovered, etc.

 

Some of us also worked on the grading guides. Admittedly it isn't the be all end all. But you can't learn to be a QB by reading a book either. You practice.

 

I learned over a period of many years, and eventually fell into a groove with it. As I know you have too

 

The hobby doesn't need, nor could someone produce, the definitive guide to grading. Comics aren't coins. Many, many variables.

[comicwiz]

I agree. I think part of the difficulty is that grading isn't really teachable. Not just in comics either, as I've spent the better part of the last three years learning how to grade action figures/toys, coins and cards. You could learn the ropes from visual reference, but it's the hands-on type of learning which really allows your grading to improve. Exposure and regular practice also helps. In-hand inspection experience can teach you a lot more than staring at photos or scans.

 

I think the more realistic role of advisors is to act as stewards, and to show collectors just enough to get them interested in learning the ropes and to encourage them to do so at a pace where they're most comfortable.