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Comic Book Spine Realignment Therapy, turn your 8.5's into 9.2's!

Started by drbanner,

3,329 posts in this topic

Bomber-Bob

Bomber-Bob

Posted
Posted

Here's my take. If CGC wasn't gifting this guy so many uber grades, there would be no situation. If the 8.5 came back as an 8.5, life is good. We need an explanation from CGC as to why the shifting of the flaws can garner a better grade. CGC ????

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500Club

500Club

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Posted
No, I don't think it's a matter of degree. In one example, the condition of the book has been improved by pressing. In the other example, pressing has merely moved the defects to another area of the book, it hasn't improved them. In my mind, the first example receives a legitimate grade bump, but the second example receiving a grade bump makes no sense at all.

It comes down to the fundamental question of the role aesthetics plays in a grade.

 

But CGC already did that for this copy when they graded it 8.5. Why would it upgrade just because the defects have been moved to the spine or back cover?

Because they are less noticeable; hence the term aesthetics.

 

Aesthetics is one thing, but you're implying they only grade the front cover.

Not quite. I am implying, though, that defects are weighted differently depending on their location. There has always been a front cover bias in that regard. (shrug)

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oakman29

oakman29

Posted
Posted
Here's my take. If CGC wasn't gifting this guy so many uber grades, there would be no situation. If the 8.5 came back as an 8.5, life is good. We need an explanation from CGC as to why the shifting of the flaws can garner a better grade. CGC ????
:applause:
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InvstmntComcSuply

InvstmntComcSuply

Posted
Posted
Here's my take. If CGC wasn't gifting this guy so many uber grades, there would be no situation. If the 8.5 came back as an 8.5, life is good. We need an explanation from CGC as to why the shifting of the flaws can garner a better grade. CGC ????

 

Don't hold your breath :sick:

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thirdgreenham

thirdgreenham

Posted
Posted
Plus, let's not lose sight of the real problem. There's pressing and then there's stupidity. Stupidity is what CGC is encouraging, fostering, and displaying in allowing something like that in a blue label. The CGC is the one creating a marketplace where that type of creative manipulation is acceptable. I don't see these type of books jumping off the shelves with that level of eye appeal.

 

I agree with your comments about CGC, but this book will sell, and the seller will make a handsome profit. Whether it gets standard 9.2 money or not really doesn't matter because the profit is conducive to more of this kind of activity.

 

What if the book sells for 8.5 money?

It doesn't matter what it sells for. It's a practice that shouldn't be encouraged by the CGC.

 

Comics are a commodity, thank god!

 

Could it be?? hm

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Bomber-Bob

Bomber-Bob

Posted
Posted
Here's my take. If CGC wasn't gifting this guy so many uber grades, there would be no situation. If the 8.5 came back as an 8.5, life is good. We need an explanation from CGC as to why the shifting of the flaws can garner a better grade. CGC ????

 

Don't hold your breath :sick:

 

I am really hoping they will respond. I know Steve Borock would have included himself in the conversation. This topic has dominated the conversation on the Boards this whole weekend. CGC must know about it. Even an acknowledgement that they will talk about it. Something.

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Calamerica

Calamerica

Posted
Posted
So are you guys saying that this type of work is something not offered by Matt Nelson?

 

I'm not sure if you're directing this question to me, but I don't know.

 

What I do know is that agencies like the FTC need to be alerted of this type of fraud and manipulation, and I'll leave it to them to decide the appropriate action for consumer redress.

 

The comics market is an unregulated market; the FTC would not hear any of this...

 

Sorry CAL...

 

Unless you are an investigator or are employed by the FTC, I don't think it's appropriate for you to give an opinion on how they decide to act on complaints they collect.

No I am not an Investigator of the FTC, but neither are you. My experiences lead me to believe that without a class-action lawsuit against any particular company( this case it would be CGC) one single case like this would not be heard.

 

On your point about the "unregulated" comic hobby, I would say that you need to do a refresher on past FTC charges and a $1.2 million redress plan against a coin certification company's representative accused of "failures to disclose information which misled consumers [coin collectors] as to the value of certified coins."

 

That is a much different scenario than this one comic being manipulated. See my previous reply.

 

I see this as an act of destroying a comic, by creating a new bind to mask the defects on the original production bind, and look at it on the same level as someone restriking a high relief double eagle to get an ultra high relief example.

 

You've heard my piece on the manipulation and fraud, but the fact that this Avengers 1 got certified without it being flagged is disgraceful. Period.

 

Read my other post where I use the examples including selling that Ford Excursion.

 

CAL just sayin'...

 

 

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goldust40

goldust40

Posted
Posted
No, I don't think it's a matter of degree. In one example, the condition of the book has been improved by pressing. In the other example, pressing has merely moved the defects to another area of the book, it hasn't improved them. In my mind, the first example receives a legitimate grade bump, but the second example receiving a grade bump makes no sense at all.

It comes down to the fundamental question of the role aesthetics plays in a grade.

 

But CGC already did that for this copy when they graded it 8.5. Why would it upgrade just because the defects have been moved to the spine or back cover?

Because they are less noticeable; hence the term aesthetics. This is in contrast to simply mathematically tallying defects and scoring a book.

 

I don't think CGC is grading on aesthetics. I've had too many books downgraded because of stains invisible to my eye. The defects are either there or they're not, and should be downgraded for regardless of where they're located.

 

In a nutshell.

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blazingbob

blazingbob

Posted
Posted

Versus all of these posts that are basically being stated to people that can't do anything about it?

 

It easy to sit back and complain, did you write/call Paul to bring this to his attention?

 

What exactly do you want to happen?

 

CGC admit they made a mistake?

 

Force the seller to return the book?

 

Proclaim to the buying public they will never make another mistake?

 

Grade to each and every individuals grading standards?

 

Openly admit that they don't give a sheet?

 

 

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paperheart

paperheart

Posted
Posted
Versus all of these posts that are basically being stated to people that can't do anything about it?

 

It easy to sit back and complain, did you write/call Paul to bring this to his attention?

 

What exactly do you want to happen?

 

CGC admit they made a mistake?

 

Force the seller to return the book?

 

Proclaim to the buying public they will never make another mistake?

 

Grade to each and every individuals grading standards?

 

Openly admit that they don't give a sheet?

 

lol

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Kevin76

Kevin76

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Posted

No company is ever perfect, regardless if it's CGC or not. Some people really have no life outside of comics which is why they notice these things as well as "keeping tabs on the seller" Ok, keeping tabs on the seller for what purpose? To prove what? The greater good of the CGC collecting community? If that's the case Your voice is falling on deaf ears because as daffy duck once said "One man cannot make a difference" The comic collecting market doesn't start with CGC forum member #1 and ends with the last guy who signs up. Fanned pages weather it's an 8.5 or a 9.2, Only YOU have the power to walk away from the deal. It's just a comic guys, there are other Avengers #1's you can buy instead of this one.

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dc eng

dc eng

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Posted
I came in late to this and haven't read all 17 pages. What happened to the rest of the back cover? Is it now overhanging?

 

Here's a pic of the back cover swiped from the seller's ebay sale page.

 

backcoverof92avengers1.jpg[/img]

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Avengers-1-MARVEL-1963-NEAR-MINT-CGC-9-2-NM-1st-App-ORIGIN-of-The-Avengers-/230941596092?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item35c53119bc

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