Comic Book Spine Realignment Therapy, turn your 8.5's into 9.2's!

[sufunk]

It's sad it's come to this but he's just playing by CGCs rules...... He's definitely a professional at what he does...... Just have to steer clear of his books.

 

stay clear of his other Ebay account also (thumbs u

Unfortunately, If this particular form of manipulation is continued to be blessed by CGC, it won't just be his books, as others will follow

 

That would see to be a MAJOR problem since the SA forum thread has already established that Matt (who now works hand in hand with CGC) has performed this procedure on at least 1 forum members book in the past

[drbanner]

It's sad it's come to this but he's just playing by CGCs rules...... He's definitely a professional at what he does...... Just have to steer clear of his books.

 

stay clear of his other Ebay account also (thumbs u

Unfortunately, If this particular form of manipulation is continued to be blessed by CGC, it won't just be his books, as others will follow

 

That would see to be a MAJOR problem since the SA forum thread has already established that Matt (who now works hand in hand with CGC) has performed this procedure on at least 1 forum members book in the past

 

Holy shnikeys Batman!

[TupennyConan]

I love pressing.

 

I haven't loved this thread.

 

Mixed feelings are confusing.

 

Y'all get this all sorted out for me by lunch.

 

That'd be cool. Thanks.

 

~~Tupenny

[ARWilson-migration]

Good lord, I need a Tums.

 

Take one of these instead, you'll feel much better

[lizards2]

Maybe some of the rules are archaic and need to be updated?

Wow - which rule are you talking about here, or maybe all of them?

[ARWilson-migration]

It's sad it's come to this but he's just playing by CGCs rules...... He's definitely a professional at what he does...... Just have to steer clear of his books.

 

Maybe some of the rules are archaic and need to be updated?

 

Whoa! I never thought I'd live to see the day...

[plitch]

An email that I sent to the higher-ups at CGC on 12/8/09, over 3 years ago. I didn't receive a response...

 

You may or may not have heard that I raised a bit of a ruckus last week on the boards by posting a thread about the presence of tape increasing the grade on some books, sometimes Golden Age keys.

A while back, I started to notice books like Superman #1 and Detective #27 that had been a 2.0 or 2.5 with a detached cover showing up again as a 3.0 or 3.5, now with tape holding the cover onto the book. Another example is a Captain America #1 coming up in the February Heritage auction that used to be a 3.5 with the cover detached at the bottom staple, which now sits in a 4.5 holder with tape at the bottom staple.

On a gut level, it feels wrong to me that by adding something as potentially destructive as tape, a book's grade can increase. So, I started a poll in the thread that I created asking the following three questions:

 

1) Should CGC continue giving a book a higher grade if it's cover is attached with tape rather than being detached?

2) Should CGC grade a book with a cover attached with tape exactly the same way they'd grade a book with a detached cover?

3) Should CGC grade a book with a cover attached with tape lower than the same book with a detached cover?

 

84 people responded to the poll, and the results were surprising. Only 7% of the responders agreed with #1, that CGC should continue its practice of giving a book a higher grade if it's cover is attached with tape than if the cover was detached. The other 93% felt that CGC should grade a book with tape attaching the cover to the book the same as a detached cover, or that CGC should grade the book lower than the same copy with a detached cover. I know board polls are anything but scientific, but the fact that 93% should agree on this topic is amazing. I doubt 93% of board members would agree that the sky is blue. That sort of united front on a topic never happens on the boards.

I think adamstrange put it best in the thread when he said that the current policy incentivizes destructive practices. We've all seen what tape can do to a book over time. Rick(detective27kid) mentioned that this practice will only increase in the near future as more and more people see the easy money that can be made with very little effort.

The only way to take the incentive away is if CGC changes its policy and no longer recognizes the apparent structural improvements created by tape. I'm not saying its restoration, and I'm not saying that CGC should downgrade for it. Just please consider not upgrading a book based on the presence of tape. After all, the book is still detached from the staples.

Thanks for your time. I hope you guys get some time off for the holidays!

Jeff

 

 

If anyone would like to PM me or email me at plitch@cgccomics.com their opinion of how CGC should treat tape on a comic book, we'd love to hear it!

 

Good of you to respond, Paul. (thumbs u

 

However, regarding...

 

'We'd like to thank the boards for pointing out these concerns. You watch the Watchmen and it is appreciated. More to come. Thanks.'

 

...could I ask why previous, extremely educational threads related to similar activity have been deleted from the boards?

 

I'm thinking of the Ewert-related threads and the 'Manufactured Gold' thread and a few others?

 

You know what they say about learning from history, but if that history isn't available to our new boards members...?

 

I'm not sure if I was involved in the decision to remove those threads. Educational threads are great, bashing threads are not - did they teeter over the edge?

 

Personally, I appreciate that the hobby cares enough to watch and question what we are doing and I am always open to discuss it. However, it is easier to reach me via email as I'm not on here much.

 

That would see to be a MAJOR problem since the SA forum thread has already established that Matt (who now works hand in hand with CGC) has performed this procedure on at least 1 forum members book in the past

 

BTW - in case it is not known, Matt is NOT allowed to put tape on books. And he is happy about that.

 

Sorry, but I really need to grade. Something about us being behind?

I'll drop in when I have more news.

[comicdonna]

I am glad to hear about the tape rule.

[sufunk]

 

 

 

That would see to be a MAJOR problem since the SA forum thread has already established that Matt (who now works hand in hand with CGC) has performed this procedure on at least 1 forum members book in the past

 

BTW - in case it is not known, Matt is NOT allowed to put tape on books. And he is happy about that.

 

 

For the record, i wasn't talking about adding tape, i was referring to "shifting" the spine to move defects to the back cover and get a higher grade (thumbs u

[oakman29]

I feel sick.

[sufunk]

I feel sick.

 

Just for the record. Now, apparently, this was "fixing" a bad alignment but i have a feeling Matt can and has done it both ways based on this post

 

 

Welcome to the hobby pressing has created. I hate to say it, and noone should take this personally but IMO if you (myself included) buy, sell or support pressed books you have been a part of creating a market that accepts this.

Absolutely.

No, not absolutely. There's pressing and then there's stupidity. Stupidity is what CGC is encouraging, fostering, and displaying in allowing something like that in a blue label. The CGC is the one creating a marketplace where that type of creative manipulation is acceptable.

The irony here is thick enough to shield me from a gamma bomb. Ive seen you defend pressing so many times i cant count them. Now that a technique has passed your personal line in the sand its a big deal. This book isnt anymore damaged than any other pressed book ( actual damage not your opinion on ascetics). Cgc is simply grading the book as it sits in front of them.

Yes, it has been damaged. It has had a new spine created where wasn't one before.. I still defend pressing. This isn't pressing. This is purposely deforming a book to improve the technical grade. Nothing about this is book has been improved upon with exception of the number in the upper left hand corner and that fault lays squarely with the CGC.

 

Plus, you need to work on your hyperbole technique. You need to be just a touch more indignant.

 

You sound like every anti presser ive heard you rail on over the years. Your emotions cloud your judgement (and your posts). Press a spine roll in, press a spine roll out its all the same "damage"

 

As an aside, i had a tales to astonish 93 9.2 that looked like the avengers 9.2. It looked to have been made that way. I then had it pressed and the spine realligned to where it should have been. Matt nelson did this for me in like 2009.

[oakman29]

I feel sick.

 

Just for the record. Now, apparently, this was "fixing" a bad alignment but i have a feeling Matt can and has done it both ways based on this post

 

 

Welcome to the hobby pressing has created. I hate to say it, and noone should take this personally but IMO if you (myself included) buy, sell or support pressed books you have been a part of creating a market that accepts this.

Absolutely.

No, not absolutely. There's pressing and then there's stupidity. Stupidity is what CGC is encouraging, fostering, and displaying in allowing something like that in a blue label. The CGC is the one creating a marketplace where that type of creative manipulation is acceptable.

The irony here is thick enough to shield me from a gamma bomb. Ive seen you defend pressing so many times i cant count them. Now that a technique has passed your personal line in the sand its a big deal. This book isnt anymore damaged than any other pressed book ( actual damage not your opinion on ascetics). Cgc is simply grading the book as it sits in front of them.

Yes, it has been damaged. It has had a new spine created where wasn't one before.. I still defend pressing. This isn't pressing. This is purposely deforming a book to improve the technical grade. Nothing about this is book has been improved upon with exception of the number in the upper left hand corner and that fault lays squarely with the CGC.

 

Plus, you need to work on your hyperbole technique. You need to be just a touch more indignant.

 

You sound like every anti presser ive heard you rail on over the years. Your emotions cloud your judgement (and your posts). Press a spine roll in, press a spine roll out its all the same "damage"

 

As an aside, i had a tales to astonish 93 9.2 that looked like the avengers 9.2. It looked to have been made that way. I then had it pressed and the spine realligned to where it should have been. Matt nelson did this for me in like 2009.

Oh my GOD! This is of Ewert proportions.I am sad today.

[sufunk]

I feel sick.

 

Just for the record. Now, apparently, this was "fixing" a bad alignment but i have a feeling Matt can and has done it both ways based on this post

 

 

Welcome to the hobby pressing has created. I hate to say it, and noone should take this personally but IMO if you (myself included) buy, sell or support pressed books you have been a part of creating a market that accepts this.

Absolutely.

No, not absolutely. There's pressing and then there's stupidity. Stupidity is what CGC is encouraging, fostering, and displaying in allowing something like that in a blue label. The CGC is the one creating a marketplace where that type of creative manipulation is acceptable.

The irony here is thick enough to shield me from a gamma bomb. Ive seen you defend pressing so many times i cant count them. Now that a technique has passed your personal line in the sand its a big deal. This book isnt anymore damaged than any other pressed book ( actual damage not your opinion on ascetics). Cgc is simply grading the book as it sits in front of them.

Yes, it has been damaged. It has had a new spine created where wasn't one before.. I still defend pressing. This isn't pressing. This is purposely deforming a book to improve the technical grade. Nothing about this is book has been improved upon with exception of the number in the upper left hand corner and that fault lays squarely with the CGC.

 

Plus, you need to work on your hyperbole technique. You need to be just a touch more indignant.

 

You sound like every anti presser ive heard you rail on over the years. Your emotions cloud your judgement (and your posts). Press a spine roll in, press a spine roll out its all the same "damage"

 

As an aside, i had a tales to astonish 93 9.2 that looked like the avengers 9.2. It looked to have been made that way. I then had it pressed and the spine realligned to where it should have been. Matt nelson did this for me in like 2009.

Oh my GOD! This is of Ewert proportions.I am sad today.

 

+1

 

This is the type of problem that erodes confidence in CGC on MANY levels

[Wally's Comics]

note to self: don't buy any book that has a strange cover miss wrap like that.

 

 

 

 

[Dr. Balls]

note to self: don't buy any book that has a strange cover miss wrap like that.

 

 

 

 

+1

 

That is a crazy-looking miswrap - the only thing missing is a CVA sticker. It's almost as if that type of pressing is used specifically to entice people who buy the grade not the book.

[sufunk]

note to self: don't buy any book that has a strange cover wrap like that.

 

 

 

 

Well, based on the post from the SA forum i quoted, it goes WAY beyond that. Apparently Matt can fix those "strange cover wraps" as well as create them.

 

Maybe it's just me, but i dont want to spend my money on EITHER type. Creating it or fixing it is changing a book in a VERY material way in my mind and i wouldn't be happy even with a perfect looking book if i found out later that it used to look like that 9.2 Avengers 1 and Matt or someone else flattened it out and realigned the spine

[Spiderphill]

Tape rule will be changed. Pressing and spine alignment won't. It's part of the game but now it's out of the bag. Lets see how this one plays out in the next year or two. Lets see who jumps on the band wagon and let's see who sticks to their morals. At the end of the day if someone presses their book to max their money because if they don't, someone else will. Apply that same rule to spine shifting and you have a very vicious and ugly cycle.

[ARWilson-migration]

BTW - in case it is not known, Matt is NOT allowed to put tape on books. And he is happy about that.

 

How would we have known this before your post? Is there somewhere (webpage, link) we should be looking for information like this? Or is this more just word of mouth?

[sufunk]

Tape rule will be changed. Pressing and spine alignment won't. It's part of the game but now it's out of the bag. Lets see how this one plays out in the next year or two. Lets see who jumps on the band wagon and let's see who sticks to their morals. At the end of the day if someone presses their book to max their money because if they don't, someone else will. Apply that same rule to spine shifting and you have a very vicious and ugly cycle.

 

I'd say you are right.

 

On a side note, i found this quote at the top of the Avengers 1 sellers page a tad humorous/sad

 

Thomas here, founder and owner. I sell only UNRESTORED comics, along with posters and other paper collectibles. I strive to be one of the best comic dealers out there. Look no further if you want good honest deals. Good luck bidding!

 

 

[DiceX]

Tape rule will be changed. Pressing and spine alignment won't. It's part of the game but now it's out of the bag. Lets see how this one plays out in the next year or two. Lets see who jumps on the band wagon and let's see who sticks to their morals. At the end of the day if someone presses their book to max their money because if they don't, someone else will. Apply that same rule to spine shifting and you have a very vicious and ugly cycle.

 

I'd say you are right.

 

On a side note, i found this quote at the top of the Avengers 1 sellers page a tad humorous/sad

 

Thomas here, founder and owner. I sell only UNRESTORED comics, along with posters and other paper collectibles. I strive to be one of the best comic dealers out there. Look no further if you want good honest deals. Good luck bidding!