Amazing Spider-Man 2 is a winner. The Rotten Tomatoes reviews were off. 0

[ComicConnoisseur]

Chuck let's head down to Sony studios and pitch our version of Spiderman

 

Let's call it "turn off the dark"

Spider-man has much more competition now as, before it was just Super-Man and Batman.

Now he has successful competition from the Power Rangers and Ben-10 models.

The age group that use to just like Spider-Man has found other characters just as interesting.

I don`t think Spider-Man will ever be number one again.

[Prince Namor]

Could it be that the character wasn't that great for a long period of time and other characters have been developed better by marvel during this time. Example Iron Man

 

Great, better, who knows?

 

The comic needs a gimmick to sell and the movies have sorely underperformed, using the 'Ultimate' ideas.

 

And here is the negative connotation of "Ultimate."

 

Based upon... factual information?

 

[ultimate Spider-Man is so good because it captured the essence of the character so perfectly.

 

The original Ultimate Comic? Is that why it did well? What IS the essence of Ultimate Spider-man?

 

[Claiming the films didn't do well using Ultimate ideas is doing a huge disservice to the book and missing the essence of USM.

 

The essence of Ultimate Spider-man didn't translate very well to the big screen then.

 

[ It does a pretty solid job capturing everything you mentioned in your post.

 

What does? The movie? Uh...no.

 

The comic? Why wouldn't it? Bendis just shot the 40 year old original storyline up with crack and made it readable for the Mountain Dew and Doritos crowd.

 

Which idea in the movie did they take from the comic?

 

 

The films weren't an "Ultimization" though. They were lose interpretations of both early ASM Spidey and Ultimate Spider-Man. I'd even say they were less based on Ultimate Spider-Man than you think. Gwen was a punk loner in Ultimate Spider-Man. Mary Jane went to high school with Peter. Ben had a pony tail. The Lizard was barely in the story. Electro worked for The Kingpin and we never got much of an origin story. Harry got turned into a Hulk style Green Goblin called Hobgoblin (sorta).

 

Not a lot from the Amazing Spider-Man films was stolen from Ultimate Spider-Man. Before you say that, you need to actually go read the run.

 

And Bendis did a lot more than you give him credit for. He wrote what many regard as the best modern super hero book.

 

Instead of saying the films are the Ultimate version, why don't we take that out of our lexicon and say they are the Sonization of Spider-Man? It is what they are and it doesn't take away from Ultimate Spider-Man.

 

You were the one who originally made the comparison. I was just taking your word for it.

 

 

[Prince Namor]

i saw the favorite moments thread and was going to post an asm2 scene but it was too long (10 minutes) so here it is. I don't get how this isn't Spider-man (more so than tobey's version)

sure the rhino villain is silly, but isn't spider-man a little silly sometimes

 

 

Spider-man is all about responsibility, first and foremost. It's the core of his character, which is why he typically does his superhero work to the detriment of his personal life. He feels a responsibility to help those in need.

 

This is evident in Spider-man 2 when you see him lose his delivery job and arrive late to MJ's play because he was helping people. While he was chasing Doc Ock and Ock threw people as a distraction, Spidey caught them and as quickly as possible, tossed them into a web to get them out of danger. When there was serious danger, he was all business.

 

Looking at the clip above from ASM 2, Spidey appears to be more interested in cracking jokes than actually stopping the vehicle. This armored truck is running over vehicles, flipping them over, and barrelling through intersections, injuring or killing dozens of people in the process. Rather than rip the door off, pull out the driver, and stop the truck (which he's fully capable of doing), Spidey decides to crack jokes and allow the bad guy enough time to pull out an automatic weapon and drive through a few more intersections. Responsibility never seemed to play a role in his decisions.

 

+1

[Prince Namor]

Chuck let's head down to Sony studios and pitch our version of Spiderman

 

Let's call it "turn off the dark"

Spider-man has much more competition now as, before it was just Super-Man and Batman.

Now he has successful competition from the Power Rangers and Ben-10 models.

The age group that use to just like Spider-Man has found other characters just as interesting.

I don`t think Spider-Man will ever be number one again.

 

 

Yawn. In 1997, I'm sure someone was saying the same thing about Batman.

 

You know, Batman?

 

Who in 2008 had the competition of Iron Man 1, Hulk, Indiana Jones, Twilight, Quantum of Solance, Will Smith as Hancock, and Wanted, blowing them all out of the water as the highest grossing solo Super Hero movie ever.

 

Great ideas are there. It's all about execution.

 

 

[jsilverjanet]

i saw the favorite moments thread and was going to post an asm2 scene but it was too long (10 minutes) so here it is. I don't get how this isn't Spider-man (more so than tobey's version)

sure the rhino villain is silly, but isn't spider-man a little silly sometimes

 

 

Spider-man is all about responsibility, first and foremost. It's the core of his character, which is why he typically does his superhero work to the detriment of his personal life. He feels a responsibility to help those in need.

 

This is evident in Spider-man 2 when you see him lose his delivery job and arrive late to MJ's play because he was helping people. While he was chasing Doc Ock and Ock threw people as a distraction, Spidey caught them and as quickly as possible, tossed them into a web to get them out of danger. When there was serious danger, he was all business.

 

Looking at the clip above from ASM 2, Spidey appears to be more interested in cracking jokes than actually stopping the vehicle. This armored truck is running over vehicles, flipping them over, and barrelling through intersections, injuring or killing dozens of people in the process. Rather than rip the door off, pull out the driver, and stop the truck (which he's fully capable of doing), Spidey decides to crack jokes and allow the bad guy enough time to pull out an automatic weapon and drive through a few more intersections. Responsibility never seemed to play a role in his decisions.

 

+1

I could argue that the whole scene is about him missing graduation/his GF for stopping an armored car

 

he's 18, maybe he hasn't figured out all that other stuff and is just enjoying being spider-man

 

but i do agree the responsibility factor isn't as prevalent in these films as the previous trilogy.

 

that being said, that previous trilogy gets a lot of passes that this movie does not.

 

1 - organic web?

2 - mary jane?

3 - the whole subway car scene (mask comes off)

 

there are plenty more but those are a few that really never sat well with me.

 

I like those films too but just odd how someone can look at these 10 minutes and dismiss them entirely but allow those other things in the movie without a even a mention.

 

I like this film. Do I love it? no, but I certainly enjoyed more than some of the marvel movies we've discussed in the other thread

 

I think we are at a point that people have decided they don't like this film and want it back in Marvel's hands and those who like this film and could care less who makes the next film.I just want a movie to be made.

[Prince Namor]

i saw the favorite moments thread and was going to post an asm2 scene but it was too long (10 minutes) so here it is. I don't get how this isn't Spider-man (more so than tobey's version)

sure the rhino villain is silly, but isn't spider-man a little silly sometimes

 

 

Spider-man is all about responsibility, first and foremost. It's the core of his character, which is why he typically does his superhero work to the detriment of his personal life. He feels a responsibility to help those in need.

 

This is evident in Spider-man 2 when you see him lose his delivery job and arrive late to MJ's play because he was helping people. While he was chasing Doc Ock and Ock threw people as a distraction, Spidey caught them and as quickly as possible, tossed them into a web to get them out of danger. When there was serious danger, he was all business.

 

Looking at the clip above from ASM 2, Spidey appears to be more interested in cracking jokes than actually stopping the vehicle. This armored truck is running over vehicles, flipping them over, and barrelling through intersections, injuring or killing dozens of people in the process. Rather than rip the door off, pull out the driver, and stop the truck (which he's fully capable of doing), Spidey decides to crack jokes and allow the bad guy enough time to pull out an automatic weapon and drive through a few more intersections. Responsibility never seemed to play a role in his decisions.

 

+1

I could argue that the whole scene is about him missing graduation/his GF for stopping an armored car

 

he's 18, maybe he hasn't figured out all that other stuff and is just enjoying being spider-man

 

That soon after Uncle Ben and Captain Stacey died? When exactly was his grieving? Oh that's right, he has a hot girlfriend.

He's like the anti-Spider-man. All id.

 

[but i do agree the responsibility factor isn't as prevalent in these films as the previous trilogy.

 

And that's a big miss. It's the essence of the character. Even Bendis and Raimi understood that.

 

that being said, that previous trilogy gets a lot of passes that this movie does not.

 

1 - organic web?

2 - mary jane?

3 - the whole subway car scene (mask comes off)

 

there are plenty more but those are a few that really never sat well with me.

 

1- Gadget. Not essential.

2- What?

3- that's your checklist of bad stuff?

 

[i like those films too but just odd how someone can look at these 10 minutes and dismiss them entirely but allow those other things in the movie without a even a mention.

 

The special effects are good. With today's technology, that's the easy part. I prefer more than that in a movie.

 

I like this film. Do I love it? no, but I certainly enjoyed more than some of the marvel movies we've discussed in the other thread

 

I think we are at a point that people have decided they don't like this film and want it back in Marvel's hands and those who like this film and could care less who makes the next film.I just want a movie to be made.

 

Maybe it's just me, but I would prefer they DIDN'T make another Spider-man movie, than to make another horribly bad one.

 

Seriously, I'd just skip another Garfield movie. It's that bad.

[jsilverjanet]

I think Spider-Man or Peter Parker would work wonderfully on the CW and I mean that with all sincerity. I think that have a good formula for the type of Superhero Spidey is.

 

As to your points Chuck

 

those 3 criticisms were the first ones that comes to mind. I can't stand Kristen Dunst (she's no Mary Jane) I won't go into the rest cause we'll never end this discussion. I think you make some great points and I can see what you are referring to but I like the movie, I just do.

[jimjum12]

Chuck let's head down to Sony studios and pitch our version of Spiderman

 

Let's call it "turn off the dark"

Spider-man has much more competition now as, before it was just Super-Man and Batman.

Now he has successful competition from the Power Rangers and Ben-10 models.

The age group that use to just like Spider-Man has found other characters just as interesting.

I don`t think Spider-Man will ever be number one again.

 

Ben-10 Boot Camp GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[ChrisInBaltimore]

Could it be that the character wasn't that great for a long period of time and other characters have been developed better by marvel during this time. Example Iron Man

 

Great, better, who knows?

 

The comic needs a gimmick to sell and the movies have sorely underperformed, using the 'Ultimate' ideas.

 

And here is the negative connotation of "Ultimate."

 

Based upon... factual information?

 

[ultimate Spider-Man is so good because it captured the essence of the character so perfectly.

 

The original Ultimate Comic? Is that why it did well? What IS the essence of Ultimate Spider-man?

 

[Claiming the films didn't do well using Ultimate ideas is doing a huge disservice to the book and missing the essence of USM.

 

The essence of Ultimate Spider-man didn't translate very well to the big screen then.

 

[ It does a pretty solid job capturing everything you mentioned in your post.

 

What does? The movie? Uh...no.

 

The comic? Why wouldn't it? Bendis just shot the 40 year old original storyline up with crack and made it readable for the Mountain Dew and Doritos crowd.

 

Which idea in the movie did they take from the comic?

 

 

The films weren't an "Ultimization" though. They were lose interpretations of both early ASM Spidey and Ultimate Spider-Man. I'd even say they were less based on Ultimate Spider-Man than you think. Gwen was a punk loner in Ultimate Spider-Man. Mary Jane went to high school with Peter. Ben had a pony tail. The Lizard was barely in the story. Electro worked for The Kingpin and we never got much of an origin story. Harry got turned into a Hulk style Green Goblin called Hobgoblin (sorta).

 

Not a lot from the Amazing Spider-Man films was stolen from Ultimate Spider-Man. Before you say that, you need to actually go read the run.

 

And Bendis did a lot more than you give him credit for. He wrote what many regard as the best modern super hero book.

 

Instead of saying the films are the Ultimate version, why don't we take that out of our lexicon and say they are the Sonization of Spider-Man? It is what they are and it doesn't take away from Ultimate Spider-Man.

 

You were the one who originally made the comparison. I was just taking your word for it.

 

 

No I didn't. I made the argument it wasn't a good comparison.

[Comicopolis]

I think if most people read Ultimate Spider-man they would be pleasantly surprised how good it really is. I was pleasantly surprised. Probably the best Spider-man stories in the modern era.

 

This is true.

[Turtle]

I think Spider-Man or Peter Parker would work wonderfully on the CW and I mean that with all sincerity. I think that have a good formula for the type of Superhero Spidey is.

 

As to your points Chuck

 

those 3 criticisms were the first ones that comes to mind. I can't stand Kristen Dunst (she's no Mary Jane) I won't go into the rest cause we'll never end this discussion. I think you make some great points and I can see what you are referring to but I like the movie, I just do.

 

I've gotta agree with Chuck, the webshooters don't seem like a big issue. I understand why they were left out of the first series (how would a teenager have the know-how to develop such an advanced system?). The ASM series seem to have handled it well enough, but I found myself asking the same question...how did he get the knowledge, ability, and materials to build them? To be fair, I never really understood that in the comics either, but I'm fine with it either way. I think the Maguire series is a little more practical in the webbing department while the Garfield series is a little more true to the source. Both make it work, so it doesn't bother me much either way.

 

And I agree...Kristen Dunst was the weak spot in the cast. She didn't look the part and her characterization wasn't true to the source material. Perhaps, ASM's Gwen (Emma Stone) is based off of the Ultimate universe, because she's a big departure from the source material I'm familiar with. I think they were on the right track with Gwen in Spider-man 3 (Bryce Dallas Howard), but with so many characters, she is easily forgettable and would have needed another movie to really take hold.

 

Speaking of casting, you've got to hand it to the original trilogy. They really got it right by casting J.K. Simmons as J. Jonah Jameson. This may be the best casting of any comic book character ever. Speaking of JJJ, is he in the ASM series? I didn't see him in the first one or the first half of the second one. JJJ is also HUGE in the Spider-man Mythos. He's an antogist that he can't beat up and leave for the cops and while he's bad for Spider-man, he signs Peter Parker's paychecks. He's such a good character. Leaving him out of the story feels wrong.

 

I mentioned it before...I shut off ASM 2 about half way through (we just finished the first Electro battle in Times Square). My wife and I found it too slow with too many irritating nuances to keep going that night. Tell me, does the second half get better? I may rent it again and start from the Electro battle, but the beginning just didn't grab me the way other superhero movies have. And I'm a big Spider-man fan. He's my favorite Marvel hero. I hope someone tells me it's worth finishing...

[TheLiamSturgess]

At a minimum, I'll say there's a scene at the end that made me tear up. It involved Spidey, a young boy and a face off.

[chrisco37]

I think if most people read Ultimate Spider-man they would be pleasantly surprised how good it really is. I was pleasantly surprised. Probably the best Spider-man stories in the modern era.

 

This is true.

 

Yup. The first 40 or so issues of the Bendis/Bagley is really fun stuff. I thought it stayed very true to the spirit of the original material(s) while updating it to a more modern setting (which is exactly what I think they were trying to do with the Ultimate line at first).

 

It's one of the books that got me back into collecting. It's the last Spidey title that I bought new regularly.

[Prince Namor]

I think Spider-Man or Peter Parker would work wonderfully on the CW and I mean that with all sincerity. I think that have a good formula for the type of Superhero Spidey is.

 

yeah, they're not going to pump 300 million into something that breaks even, regardless of where they do it.

 

As to your points Chuck

 

those 3 criticisms were the first ones that comes to mind. I can't stand Kristen Dunst (she's no Mary Jane) I won't go into the rest cause we'll never end this discussion. I think you make some great points and I can see what you are referring to but I like the movie, I just do.

 

And generally I'm trying to examine it based upon NOT how I feel about it.

 

Financially it didn't work, and so in examining the 'why' behind it, that's what I come up with.

[Prince Namor]

I think Spider-Man or Peter Parker would work wonderfully on the CW and I mean that with all sincerity. I think that have a good formula for the type of Superhero Spidey is.

 

As to your points Chuck

 

those 3 criticisms were the first ones that comes to mind. I can't stand Kristen Dunst (she's no Mary Jane) I won't go into the rest cause we'll never end this discussion. I think you make some great points and I can see what you are referring to but I like the movie, I just do.

 

I've gotta agree with Chuck, the webshooters don't seem like a big issue. I understand why they were left out of the first series (how would a teenager have the know-how to develop such an advanced system?). The ASM series seem to have handled it well enough, but I found myself asking the same question...how did he get the knowledge, ability, and materials to build them? To be fair, I never really understood that in the comics either, but I'm fine with it either way. I think the Maguire series is a little more practical in the webbing department while the Garfield series is a little more true to the source. Both make it work, so it doesn't bother me much either way.

 

And I agree...Kristen Dunst was the weak spot in the cast. She didn't look the part and her characterization wasn't true to the source material. Perhaps, ASM's Gwen (Emma Stone) is based off of the Ultimate universe, because she's a big departure from the source material I'm familiar with. I think they were on the right track with Gwen in Spider-man 3 (Bryce Dallas Howard), but with so many characters, she is easily forgettable and would have needed another movie to really take hold.

 

Speaking of casting, you've got to hand it to the original trilogy. They really got it right by casting J.K. Simmons as J. Jonah Jameson. This may be the best casting of any comic book character ever. Speaking of JJJ, is he in the ASM series? I didn't see him in the first one or the first half of the second one. JJJ is also HUGE in the Spider-man Mythos. He's an antogist that he can't beat up and leave for the cops and while he's bad for Spider-man, he signs Peter Parker's paychecks. He's such a good character. Leaving him out of the story feels wrong.

 

I mentioned it before...I shut off ASM 2 about half way through (we just finished the first Electro battle in Times Square). My wife and I found it too slow with too many irritating nuances to keep going that night. Tell me, does the second half get better? I may rent it again and start from the Electro battle, but the beginning just didn't grab me the way other superhero movies have. And I'm a big Spider-man fan. He's my favorite Marvel hero. I hope someone tells me it's worth finishing...

 

Not to chop the head off a dead horse, but.... ASM decided JJJ wasn't important enough to be a part of the Spider-man Movie Universe.

[jsilverjanet]

I would counter that the first trilogy felt Gwen was an afterthought and put her in the third as love interest to Eddie Brock, when we all know how critical Gwen is to who Peter is becomes etc.

 

[jsilverjanet]

I would counter that the first trilogy felt Gwen was an afterthought and put her in the third as love interest to Eddie Brock, when we all know how critical Gwen is to who Peter is becomes etc.

 

 

for Chuck

 

 

she'll be the mother of twins to his greatest enemy

 

[Prince Namor]

I think if most people read Ultimate Spider-man they would be pleasantly surprised how good it really is. I was pleasantly surprised. Probably the best Spider-man stories in the modern era.

 

This is true.

 

Yup. The first 40 or so issues of the Bendis/Bagley is really fun stuff. I thought it stayed very true to the spirit of the original material(s) while updating it to a more modern setting (which is exactly what I think they were trying to do with the Ultimate line at first).

 

It's one of the books that got me back into collecting. It's the last Spidey title that I bought new regularly.

 

It's sales rivaled and sometimes equaled ASM at certain points.

 

My problem with it was always, 'why rewrite the series?' If you can do Spider-man THIS good, why not write the regular ASM, and go all out like this.

 

 

[Prince Namor]

I would counter that the first trilogy felt Gwen was an afterthought and put her in the third as love interest to Eddie Brock, when we all know how critical Gwen is to who Peter is becomes etc.

 

 

for Chuck

 

 

she'll be the mother of twins to his greatest enemy

 

Thanks for reminding me! Yeah, that's the Spidey Universe we all know and love. Marvel sucks.

[Prince Namor]

I would counter that the first trilogy felt Gwen was an afterthought and put her in the third as love interest to Eddie Brock, when we all know how critical Gwen is to who Peter is becomes etc.

 

 

JJJ was there from issue #1. Gwen wouldn't show up until he went to college three years later.