Will CGC make an official statement?

[General Zod]

When should we expect that the Ebay banner ads and affiliate links will disappear? Pretty soon we'll see CBCS books there as well.

 

Same for every auction house that advertises here.

Saw the my first CBCS book on ebay today

 

Ooo, thanks D! I'm gonna go look...

 

I can't find it.

 

Blowie, HELP!!!

 

 

Giant Size X-Men 1 9.4 -- and I think it sold already -- so look in completed

 

Link.

 

That was so yesterday's news. And last time I checked neither GPA nor GoCollect had recorded the sale on their sites.

 

And sold for slightly above GPA. That's healthy.

[comix4fun]

 

Given the length that CGC has gone to clearly identify the parameters of their program (only witnessing, no handwriting analysis or certification after the fact) they seem to want to avoid any confusion of a brand and product that they have spent nearly a decade working to hone.

 

I've never understood why they should be so rigid with their SS program when there are and will always be large holes through their 'witness program'. Unless it is a private signing where a CGC rep, witness or facilitator sits with the talent there are some major problems.

 

Here is a personal example:

I commissioned two sketches on blanks last year on a Thursday. On Sunday, I picked them up with a CGC SS Witness. That person walked with me to the artist's table, where I picked up the sketches then walked back to the CGC processing area. The books were processed, slabbed and returned to me noting "sketch and signed by X" Who is to say that the artist actually did the sketch? What did CGC actually witness? Babe Ruth used to hand off a lot of mailed requests for his signatures to his wife to handle.

 

I'll take it one step further…

 

I had a book in Baltimore a few years ago get signed, with a facilitator, by Lee, Stern, and Romita Sr. It was supposed to get Romita Jr but he had a family emergency and left. Somehow there was a deal made in that JRJR took the books for like 3 or 4 months to sign and ship back to CGC. Who is to say the Romita Jr even signed the book? He could have had an intern do it. Heck it wouldn't be hard to copy the JRJR he rights on books.

 

I also had some sketches done. I sent the books to the guy months in advance and they were then picked up at a show. He could have had anyone draw them.

 

CGC's system has some holes.

 

 

If the creator is willing to accept responsibility for the signing and sketching and the custody of the items in question, as well as personally returns those items directly to CGC, along with a statement what he signed/sketch and when, it's not exactly what I would call a hole.

 

 

The only thing missing is a DNA sample.

[comix4fun]

When should we expect that the Ebay banner ads and affiliate links will disappear? Pretty soon we'll see CBCS books there as well.

 

Same for every auction house that advertises here.

Saw the my first CBCS book on ebay today

 

Ooo, thanks D! I'm gonna go look...

 

I can't find it.

 

Blowie, HELP!!!

 

 

Giant Size X-Men 1 9.4 -- and I think it sold already -- so look in completed

 

Link.

 

That was so yesterday's news. And last time I checked neither GPA nor GoCollect had recorded the sale on their sites.

 

And sold for slightly above GPA. That's healthy.

 

 

Anyone know who the buyer was? That auction looked like a BIN, but I didn't see who the buyer was.

[VintageComics]

CGC's system has some holes.

 

I think short of having the US Secret Service running security measure, every system is going to have some 'holes' but it always comes down to trust among those in the chain of contact. Even with security, it comes down to trusting the people you have chosen for security.

 

Those guys guarding banks overnight and running millions of dollars in armoured cars? There needs to be some trust factor.

 

As long as reasonable measures are taken, that is all people can expect. And if someone is going to game a system, they will invariable get caught at some point and that trust is then all gone for all time.

 

It's the way the world works.

[comix4fun]

I just noticed the update over in SS that you can not be a facilitator for CGC and a competitor?

 

Who would that impact? I am not following.

 

In the end, Joey can still submit books.

 

Well, I'll tell you one thing... it isn't a good thing for the consumer. That sort of change (if true) is escalating this into a turf war. They're basically threatening independent / non-CGC employees livelihood if those people choose to play a few games with the other team on the weekends.

 

So, basically, "it is us or them - choose."

 

 

Not really. When it comes to the SS program CGC has a very specific process whereby a direct or contract employee of CGC has to actually physically witness the signature as it's completed. The other company has made note that they will accept previously signed books, by other companies, for their signature program.

 

Given the length that CGC has gone to clearly identify the parameters of their program (only witnessing, no handwriting analysis or certification after the fact) they seem to want to avoid any confusion of a brand and product that they have spent nearly a decade working to hone.

 

Simply put, if someone is facilitating for more than one signature program at the same time (PGX has one too) the customer may equate the signature services as the same, given that they are dealing with one representative across companies, when the services and products are not the same.

 

Also that post was almost 2 months old. Given the amount of PGX Signature books proliferating Ebay and other venues it was a statement and a stance that needed to be made. The SS program is only as good as the safeguards that protect the integrity of the signature process and the perception of the SS consuming public at large.

 

This might give the impression that the other company will accept PGX signature books, which is not the case, PGX has zero credibility.

 

 

And that was mentioned as a way to note the differences in the programs as they stand right now. If the programs are drastically different in how they arrive at certifying the signatures as authentic, and if CGC has gone to great lengths to develop their own system (a system not shared by the other companies offering signature books), then it makes sense that they don't want facilitators mixing their product in with other products that may look similar on their face but could cause confusion amongst consumers and potentially undermine the trust built in their program.

[ChrisInBaltimore]

CGC's system has some holes.

 

I think short of having the US Secret Service running security measure, every system is going to have some 'holes' but it always comes down to trust among those in the chain of contact. Even with security, it comes down to trusting the people you have chosen for security.

 

Those guys guarding banks overnight and running millions of dollars in armoured cars? There needs to be some trust factor.

 

As long as reasonable measures are taken, that is all people can expect. And if someone is going to game a system, they will invariable get caught at some point and that trust is then all gone for all time.

 

It's the way the world works.

 

Yea, no I understand it is impossible to have a perfect system. What CGC has is pretty good.

 

I'd love it if CGC would authenticate signatures though. It is about time they made an attempt even if it is for a slightly different slab…

[Jimmy Linguini]

Its true. CGC does have holes.

 

I mean, if you submit books to them, they will grade them and send them back to you. Holes.

[wardevil0]

 

Given the length that CGC has gone to clearly identify the parameters of their program (only witnessing, no handwriting analysis or certification after the fact) they seem to want to avoid any confusion of a brand and product that they have spent nearly a decade working to hone.

 

I've never understood why they should be so rigid with their SS program when there are and will always be large holes through their 'witness program'. Unless it is a private signing where a CGC rep, witness or facilitator sits with the talent there are some major problems.

 

Here is a personal example:

I commissioned two sketches on blanks last year on a Thursday. On Sunday, I picked them up with a CGC SS Witness. That person walked with me to the artist's table, where I picked up the sketches then walked back to the CGC processing area. The books were processed, slabbed and returned to me noting "sketch and signed by X" Who is to say that the artist actually did the sketch? What did CGC actually witness? Babe Ruth used to hand off a lot of mailed requests for his signatures to his wife to handle.

 

I'll take it one step further…

 

I had a book in Baltimore a few years ago get signed, with a facilitator, by Lee, Stern, and Romita Sr. It was supposed to get Romita Jr but he had a family emergency and left. Somehow there was a deal made in that JRJR took the books for like 3 or 4 months to sign and ship back to CGC. Who is to say the Romita Jr even signed the book? He could have had an intern do it. Heck it wouldn't be hard to copy the JRJR he rights on books.

 

I also had some sketches done. I sent the books to the guy months in advance and they were then picked up at a show. He could have had anyone draw them.

 

CGC's system has some holes.

 

If that's the case, then why even assume that the artist whose signature you want ever actually worked on the comic you want them to sign anyway? We're pretty sure some people (Bob Kane, for example) farmed out assignments to his studio but had them published under his own name. It may be that the intern who forged the autograph was the person who actually did the artwork in the first place!

 

My point is that CGC has worked to maintain the integrity of the Signature Series label to the absolute best of their ability. They don't put their verification on Dynamic Forces books, or any number of books that come direct from the publisher with signatures attached. If the person in question says "yes that is my signature" and a witness is there to say that the books on my invoice are the books he saw me carry around the convention floor, then it's good enough for me.

[ChrisInBaltimore]

OK just to be clear, I was sort of playing devils advocate. I have a good number of SS books and I really like them.

[General Zod]

Anyone know who the buyer was? That auction looked like a BIN, but I didn't see who the buyer was.

 

You'll have to wait for the buyer to leave feedback if he/she doesn't come forward before then.

 

CGC's system has some holes.

 

I think short of having the US Secret Service running security measure, every system is going to have some 'holes' but it always comes down to trust among those in the chain of contact. Even with security, it comes down to trusting the people you have chosen for security.

 

Those guys guarding banks overnight and running millions of dollars in armoured cars? There needs to be some trust factor.

 

As long as reasonable measures are taken, that is all people can expect. And if someone is going to game a system, they will invariable get caught at some point and that trust is then all gone for all time.

 

It's the way the world works.

 

It was inevitable the trust factor would diminish. It's likely time for signature authentication.

[wardevil0]

There's just a lot about the autographed graded comics market that I don't understand. I have a book that, as far as I known, could only be bought at conventions from the creator. I've never seen one that wasn't signed. I sent it in the be graded, and of course it is in a green slab. Anyone who knows anything about this comic should know that a green slab is as good as it gets, but some people act like green slab books should just be thrown away, or that CGC should bend the rules "just this once" and give special dispensation for their books.

 

The other three-letter company says they'll slab books if the signature has been authenticated by yet another company, but the label is a different color from their version of signature series. As far as I can tell, this is for all practical purposes the same as a green label. Whatever color the label is, it isn't the same color as those signed with a witness, so it's second class, right?

 

I have a friend who wants to become a notary public, so he can notarize that comics are signed by the people they claim, and then he wants to try to get them in a yellow label. It won't work, because that's not the program. The CGC Signature Series is by far the most comprehensive autograph verification I've ever seen, and it's the industry standard because it is strict, rigid, and inflexible, not in spite of it.

[Tom473]

No system is perfect, and at the end of the day it comes down to trust. I have zero worry buying CGC SS, I trust their process. From every thing I have read the other company is adopting similar best practices and I won't have any issues with them either. PGX - I would never buy signed or not. I'm sure there are some good flipping opportunities since their slabs often sell for less, but I don't have enough time to make that worth my while.

[topofthetotem]

No system is perfect, and at the end of the day it comes down to trust. I have zero worry buying CGC SS, I trust their process. From every thing I have read the other company is adopting similar best practices and I won't have any issues with them either. PGX - I would never buy signed or not. I'm sure there are some good flipping opportunities since their slabs often sell for less, but I don't have enough time to make that worth my while.

This!

[SquareChaos]

There's just a lot about the autographed graded comics market that I don't understand. I have a book that, as far as I known, could only be bought at conventions from the creator. I've never seen one that wasn't signed. I sent it in the be graded, and of course it is in a green slab. Anyone who knows anything about this comic should know that a green slab is as good as it gets, but some people act like green slab books should just be thrown away, or that CGC should bend the rules "just this once" and give special dispensation for their books.

 

The other three-letter company says they'll slab books if the signature has been authenticated by yet another company, but the label is a different color from their version of signature series. As far as I can tell, this is for all practical purposes the same as a green label. Whatever color the label is, it isn't the same color as those signed with a witness, so it's second class, right?

 

I have a friend who wants to become a notary public, so he can notarize that comics are signed by the people they claim, and then he wants to try to get them in a yellow label. It won't work, because that's not the program. The CGC Signature Series is by far the most comprehensive autograph verification I've ever seen, and it's the industry standard because it is strict, rigid, and inflexible, not in spite of it.

 

I think what your friend may fail to understand is that SS books are simply a business model - it is CGCs way to rake a few more dollars out of the system while also supplying a modicum of safety that a given signature or sketch is from who the label claims it is from.

 

Sounds like you get it, but your friend doesn't.

[HighRadArt]

There's just a lot about the autographed graded comics market that I don't understand. I have a book that, as far as I known, could only be bought at conventions from the creator. I've never seen one that wasn't signed. I sent it in the be graded, and of course it is in a green slab. Anyone who knows anything about this comic should know that a green slab is as good as it gets, but some people act like green slab books should just be thrown away, or that CGC should bend the rules "just this once" and give special dispensation for their books.

 

The other three-letter company says they'll slab books if the signature has been authenticated by yet another company, but the label is a different color from their version of signature series. As far as I can tell, this is for all practical purposes the same as a green label. Whatever color the label is, it isn't the same color as those signed with a witness, so it's second class, right?

 

I have a friend who wants to become a notary public, so he can notarize that comics are signed by the people they claim, and then he wants to try to get them in a yellow label. It won't work, because that's not the program. The CGC Signature Series is by far the most comprehensive autograph verification I've ever seen, and it's the industry standard because it is strict, rigid, and inflexible, not in spite of it.

 

I think what your friend may fail to understand is that SS books are simply a business model - it is CGCs way to rake a few more dollars out of the system while also supplying a modicum of safety that a given signature or sketch is from who the label claims it is from.

 

Sounds like you get it, but your friend doesn't.

 

It's amusing that a notary is good for legal documents but not a Sig on a comic book. The major drawback for me would be when he/she got out their seal to stamp the book.

[GACollectibles]

When should we expect that the Ebay banner ads and affiliate links will disappear? Pretty soon we'll see CBCS books there as well.

 

Same for every auction house that advertises here.

Saw the my first CBCS book on ebay today

 

Ooo, thanks D! I'm gonna go look...

 

I can't find it.

 

Blowie, HELP!!!

 

 

Giant Size X-Men 1 9.4 -- and I think it sold already -- so look in completed

 

Link.

 

That was so yesterday's news. And last time I checked neither GPA nor GoCollect had recorded the sale on their sites.

 

And sold for slightly above GPA. That's healthy.

 

 

Anyone know who the buyer was? That auction looked like a BIN, but I didn't see who the buyer was.

 

Is that a subtle way of saying it was you?

[comix4fun]

When should we expect that the Ebay banner ads and affiliate links will disappear? Pretty soon we'll see CBCS books there as well.

 

Same for every auction house that advertises here.

Saw the my first CBCS book on ebay today

 

Ooo, thanks D! I'm gonna go look...

 

I can't find it.

 

Blowie, HELP!!!

 

 

Giant Size X-Men 1 9.4 -- and I think it sold already -- so look in completed

 

Link.

 

That was so yesterday's news. And last time I checked neither GPA nor GoCollect had recorded the sale on their sites.

 

And sold for slightly above GPA. That's healthy.

 

 

Anyone know who the buyer was? That auction looked like a BIN, but I didn't see who the buyer was.

 

Is that a subtle way of saying it was you?

 

 

I don't believe so.

[wardevil0]

There's just a lot about the autographed graded comics market that I don't understand. I have a book that, as far as I known, could only be bought at conventions from the creator. I've never seen one that wasn't signed. I sent it in the be graded, and of course it is in a green slab. Anyone who knows anything about this comic should know that a green slab is as good as it gets, but some people act like green slab books should just be thrown away, or that CGC should bend the rules "just this once" and give special dispensation for their books.

 

The other three-letter company says they'll slab books if the signature has been authenticated by yet another company, but the label is a different color from their version of signature series. As far as I can tell, this is for all practical purposes the same as a green label. Whatever color the label is, it isn't the same color as those signed with a witness, so it's second class, right?

 

I have a friend who wants to become a notary public, so he can notarize that comics are signed by the people they claim, and then he wants to try to get them in a yellow label. It won't work, because that's not the program. The CGC Signature Series is by far the most comprehensive autograph verification I've ever seen, and it's the industry standard because it is strict, rigid, and inflexible, not in spite of it.

 

I think what your friend may fail to understand is that SS books are simply a business model - it is CGCs way to rake a few more dollars out of the system while also supplying a modicum of safety that a given signature or sketch is from who the label claims it is from.

 

Sounds like you get it, but your friend doesn't.

 

It's amusing that a notary is good for legal documents but not a Sig on a comic book. The major drawback for me would be when he/she got out their seal to stamp the book.

 

Yeah, I didn't ask about that. I'm assuming he was planning on making a CoA of some sort to emboss.

[GACollectibles]

When should we expect that the Ebay banner ads and affiliate links will disappear? Pretty soon we'll see CBCS books there as well.

 

Same for every auction house that advertises here.

Saw the my first CBCS book on ebay today

 

Ooo, thanks D! I'm gonna go look...

 

I can't find it.

 

Blowie, HELP!!!

 

 

Giant Size X-Men 1 9.4 -- and I think it sold already -- so look in completed

 

Link.

 

That was so yesterday's news. And last time I checked neither GPA nor GoCollect had recorded the sale on their sites.

 

And sold for slightly above GPA. That's healthy.

 

 

Anyone know who the buyer was? That auction looked like a BIN, but I didn't see who the buyer was.

 

Is that a subtle way of saying it was you?

 

 

I don't believe so.

 

Hmm, didn't dismiss it outright. Care to comment on the rumors that you are the Zodiac killer?

[VintageComics]

When should we expect that the Ebay banner ads and affiliate links will disappear? Pretty soon we'll see CBCS books there as well.

 

Same for every auction house that advertises here.

Saw the my first CBCS book on ebay today

 

Ooo, thanks D! I'm gonna go look...

 

I can't find it.

 

Blowie, HELP!!!

 

 

Giant Size X-Men 1 9.4 -- and I think it sold already -- so look in completed

 

Link.

 

That was so yesterday's news. And last time I checked neither GPA nor GoCollect had recorded the sale on their sites.

 

Just talked to George yesterday. It's looking like for the foreseeable future that GPA won't be recording CBCS sales.