Cerebus 1 a more valuable key than Hulk 181? Really Overstreet? Poll on Page 87 3 3

[HighStakesComics]

Dear Audience,

 

I am a Wolverine fan.

 

Sincerely,

 

Partisan

 

Finally!

 

Jaydog says something TRUE!

 

 

RMA, can I ask your opinion on a completely unrelated, off-topic question?

[Superman2006]

Any national dealer on this board, if given a chance, would buy a Cerebus #1 CGC 9.4 over a Hulk #181 CGC 9.4 - if offered only one or the other - for $500.

 

End of story.

 

Because, thus far, they've seen, they will make MORE MONEY off the book -MEANING that in HIGH GRADE it is more VALUABLE to them.

 

Hence, it's more VALUABLE in HG as reflected in the OSPG, a guide for people who SELL comics.

 

See jaydog, you look at GPA as a novice and a fan would... As what HAS happened. A professional comic book dealer looks at it as what MAY happened, combined with what they HEAR every DAY from people who buy HG books, combined with a decades old knowledge of the marketplace.

 

Real world application vs I fell in love with Wolverine as a boy.

 

You lose.

 

 

Hi Chuck, I notice that you keep making the same point above in regards to 9.4 graded copies. However, since Overstreet's top 10 list is based on value in NM-, what 9.4's sell for is almost (but not quite) as irrelevant as what 8.5's sell for.

 

In regards to 9.2's, IMO, arguments can be made from both sides (as they are) as to which would sell for more today (a lot of which might vary depending on the attractiveness of a particular copy, sales venue, auction vs. fixed price, etc.)

 

[HighStakesComics]

Dear Audience,

 

I am a Wolverine fan.

 

Sincerely,

 

Partisan

 

Finally!

 

Jaydog says something TRUE!

 

 

RMA, can I ask your opinion on a completely unrelated, off-topic question?

 

Kamala Harris, your state AG is 27:1 for the 2016 election. You like that play or throwing money away?

[Prince Namor]

Any national dealer on this board, if given a chance, would buy a Cerebus #1 CGC 9.4 over a Hulk #181 CGC 9.4 - if offered only one or the other - for $500.

 

End of story.

 

Because, thus far, they've seen, they will make MORE MONEY off the book -MEANING that in HIGH GRADE it is more VALUABLE to them.

 

Hence, it's more VALUABLE in HG as reflected in the OSPG, a guide for people who SELL comics.

 

See jaydog, you look at GPA as a novice and a fan would... As what HAS happened. A professional comic book dealer looks at it as what MAY happened, combined with what they HEAR every DAY from people who buy HG books, combined with a decades old knowledge of the marketplace.

 

Real world application vs I fell in love with Wolverine as a boy.

 

You lose.

 

 

Hi Chuck, I notice that you keep making the same point above in regards to 9.4 graded copies. However, since Overstreet's top 10 list is based on value in NM-, what 9.4's sell for is almost (but not quite) as irrelevant as what 8.5's sell for.

 

In regards to 9.2's, IMO, arguments can be made from both sides (as they are) as to which would sell for more today (a lot of which might vary depending on the attractiveness of a particular copy, sales venue, auction vs. fixed price, etc.)

 

 

Irrelevant?

 

As a dealer, getting CGC graded 9.4 Cerebus #1 would NEVER be irrelevant.

 

As far as the 9.2 goes... My GOD, how many times does this have to be repeated???

 

A) One sale from 2005 is all GPA has. So...

 

You mean to tell me, and I expect you to answer this question, that as a dealer - if you got in that Cerebus #1 CGC 9.2 - you'd put it out for sale at - $2136?

 

Is that what you'd do?

 

Of course not. You'd put it up for auction.

 

Gee. What would it go for? What do we have to go by?

 

A 9.4 from March of this year which blew the doors off, and a 9.0 from last year that hit $2500.

 

The logical guess is - it'd do more than $2500. Would it meet half way at about $5000? A quarter of the way at $3750? Let's ask some experts.

 

They agree - it'd rock.

 

See, you can't go by one sale from 9 years ago. You understand that right?

Like, what did 9.2 Hulk 181's sell for in 2005? $1000? $1250? Anyone?

 

One of the other things OSPG uses is the advise and imput from some of the long time dealers who handle these books everyday. They're looking at it, not from a 'I LOVE Wolverine standpoint, but from a BUSINESS standpoint.

 

They know how to use GPA. And they're smart enough not to price ANYTHING by one sale from 9 years ago. They'd have never made it in the business this long if they did that.

[HighStakesComics]

Any national dealer on this board, if given a chance, would buy a Cerebus #1 CGC 9.4 over a Hulk #181 CGC 9.4 - if offered only one or the other - for $500.

 

End of story.

 

Because, thus far, they've seen, they will make MORE MONEY off the book -MEANING that in HIGH GRADE it is more VALUABLE to them.

 

Hence, it's more VALUABLE in HG as reflected in the OSPG, a guide for people who SELL comics.

 

See jaydog, you look at GPA as a novice and a fan would... As what HAS happened. A professional comic book dealer looks at it as what MAY happened, combined with what they HEAR every DAY from people who buy HG books, combined with a decades old knowledge of the marketplace.

 

Real world application vs I fell in love with Wolverine as a boy.

 

You lose.

 

 

Hi Chuck, I notice that you keep making the same point above in regards to 9.4 graded copies. However, since Overstreet's top 10 list is based on value in NM-, what 9.4's sell for is almost (but not quite) as irrelevant as what 8.5's sell for.

 

In regards to 9.2's, IMO, arguments can be made from both sides (as they are) as to which would sell for more today (a lot of which might vary depending on the attractiveness of a particular copy, sales venue, auction vs. fixed price, etc.)

 

 

Irrelevant?

 

As a dealer, getting CGC graded 9.4 Cerebus #1 would NEVER be irrelevant.

 

As far as the 9.2 goes... My GOD, how many times does this have to be repeated???

 

A) One sale from 2005 is all GPA has. So...

 

You mean to tell me, and I expect you to answer this question, that as a dealer - if you got in that Cerebus #1 CGC 9.2 - you'd put it out for sale at - $2136?

 

Is that what you'd do?

 

Of course not. You'd put it up for auction.

 

Gee. What would it go for? What do we have to go by?

 

A 9.4 from March of this year which blew the doors off, and a 9.0 from last year that hit $2500.

 

The logical guess is - it'd do more than $2500. Would it meet half way at about $5000? A quarter of the way at $3750? Let's ask some experts.

 

They agree - it'd rock.

 

See, you can't go by one sale from 9 years ago. You understand that right?

Like, what did 9.2 Hulk 181's sell for in 2005? $1000? $1250? Anyone?

 

One of the other things OSPG uses is the advise and imput from some of the long time dealers who handle these books everyday. They're looking at it, not from a 'I LOVE Wolverine standpoint, but from a BUSINESS standpoint.

 

They know how to use GPA. And they're smart enough not to price ANYTHING by one sale from 9 years ago. They'd have never made it in the business this long if they did that.

 

Hmmmmmmmm.....$3750 is about 60% above guide. I think that's a little ambitious. Whoever bought the last 9.4 might have thought it had 9.6, single highest graded potential, and could have overpaid for the opportunity to find out.

 

I could probably just as easily argue on behalf of the Cerebus #1

 

Like I said, dead heat. We won't figure this out until another 9.2 hits the market. If this goes on for much longer I may have to sniff one out and auction it off myself.

[steveinthecity]

Dear Audience,

 

I am a Wolverine fan.

 

Sincerely,

 

Partisan

 

Finally!

 

Jaydog says something TRUE!

 

 

RMA, can I ask your opinion on a completely unrelated, off-topic question?

 

Kamala Harris, your state AG is 27:1 for the 2016 election. You like that play or throwing money away?

Please don't allow politics to derail this thread.

[Jaydogrules]

Any national dealer on this board, if given a chance, would buy a Cerebus #1 CGC 9.4 over a Hulk #181 CGC 9.4 - if offered only one or the other - for $500.

 

End of story.

 

Because, thus far, they've seen, they will make MORE MONEY off the book -MEANING that in HIGH GRADE it is more VALUABLE to them.

 

Hence, it's more VALUABLE in HG as reflected in the OSPG, a guide for people who SELL comics.

 

See jaydog, you look at GPA as a novice and a fan would... As what HAS happened. A professional comic book dealer looks at it as what MAY happened, combined with what they HEAR every DAY from people who buy HG books, combined with a decades old knowledge of the marketplace.

 

Real world application vs I fell in love with Wolverine as a boy.

 

You lose.

 

 

Hi Chuck, I notice that you keep making the same point above in regards to 9.4 graded copies. However, since Overstreet's top 10 list is based on value in NM-, what 9.4's sell for is almost (but not quite) as irrelevant as what 8.5's sell for.

 

In regards to 9.2's, IMO, arguments can be made from both sides (as they are) as to which would sell for more today (a lot of which might vary depending on the attractiveness of a particular copy, sales venue, auction vs. fixed price, etc.)

 

 

Irrelevant?

 

As a dealer, getting CGC graded 9.4 Cerebus #1 would NEVER be irrelevant.

 

As far as the 9.2 goes... My GOD, how many times does this have to be repeated???

 

A) One sale from 2005 is all GPA has. So...

 

You mean to tell me, and I expect you to answer this question, that as a dealer - if you got in that Cerebus #1 CGC 9.2 - you'd put it out for sale at - $2136?

 

Is that what you'd do?

 

Of course not. You'd put it up for auction.

 

Gee. What would it go for? What do we have to go by?

 

A 9.4 from March of this year which blew the doors off, and a 9.0 from last year that hit $2500.

 

The logical guess is - it'd do more than $2500. Would it meet half way at about $5000? A quarter of the way at $3750? Let's ask some experts.

 

They agree - it'd rock.

 

See, you can't go by one sale from 9 years ago. You understand that right?

Like, what did 9.2 Hulk 181's sell for in 2005? $1000? $1250? Anyone?

 

One of the other things OSPG uses is the advise and imput from some of the long time dealers who handle these books everyday. They're looking at it, not from a 'I LOVE Wolverine standpoint, but from a BUSINESS standpoint.

 

They know how to use GPA. And they're smart enough not to price ANYTHING by one sale from 9 years ago. They'd have never made it in the business this long if they did that.

 

Hmmmmmmmm.....$3750 is about 60% above guide. I think that's a little ambitious. Whoever bought the last 9.4 might have thought it had 9.6, single highest graded potential, and could have overpaid for the opportunity to find out.

 

I could probably just as easily argue on behalf of the Cerebus #1

 

Like I said, dead heat. We won't figure this out until another 9.2 hits the market. If this goes on for much longer I may have to sniff one out and auction it off myself.

 

Frankly there should be a MINIMUM amount of sales before a book can even be eligible to make the list. And it should be a weighted average of all sales across all the grades. That would create a level playing field regardless of print run and eliminate books with waning or negligible impact on the hobby.

 

Again, the way Overstreet does it it stupid, as books like cerebus 1, with 0 sales in grade for years get cursory, unearned "honorary mentions" based on meaningless hypothetical "what ifs?" While books like hulk 181 is somehow penalized for having people actually buying it in grade on a regular basis which develops a real and actual cost basis. Comparing those real and hard numbers to the mythical, hypothetical unicorn numbers of a book that hasn't sold in a decade is really very stupid not to mention pointless and meaningless.

 

Get with the times overstreet.

 

-J.

[HighStakesComics]

Dear Audience,

 

I am a Wolverine fan.

 

Sincerely,

 

Partisan

 

Finally!

 

Jaydog says something TRUE!

 

 

RMA, can I ask your opinion on a completely unrelated, off-topic question?

 

Kamala Harris, your state AG is 27:1 for the 2016 election. You like that play or throwing money away?

Please don't allow politics to derail this thread.

 

No politics, good sir. Just asking for an opinion on risk/reward from someone that may be more familiar whose opinion I respect. There's a couple longshots on the board that present reasonable perceived value. Until a copy goes up for sale we are merely recycling the same arguments at this point anyways.

[rjrjr]

I would rather have a Cerebus #1 than an IH #181,of course I have two 181's so......

 

I don't even collect superhero comics and even I have a IH 181 in my collection from way back before they achieved the nosebleed price they are at now.

[rjrjr]

Any national dealer on this board, if given a chance, would buy a Cerebus #1 CGC 9.4 over a Hulk #181 CGC 9.4 - if offered only one or the other - for $500.

 

End of story.

 

Because, thus far, they've seen, they will make MORE MONEY off the book -MEANING that in HIGH GRADE it is more VALUABLE to them.

 

Hence, it's more VALUABLE in HG as reflected in the OSPG, a guide for people who SELL comics.

 

See jaydog, you look at GPA as a novice and a fan would... As what HAS happened. A professional comic book dealer looks at it as what MAY happened, combined with what they HEAR every DAY from people who buy HG books, combined with a decades old knowledge of the marketplace.

 

Real world application vs I fell in love with Wolverine as a boy.

 

You lose.

 

 

Hi Chuck, I notice that you keep making the same point above in regards to 9.4 graded copies. However, since Overstreet's top 10 list is based on value in NM-, what 9.4's sell for is almost (but not quite) as irrelevant as what 8.5's sell for.

 

In regards to 9.2's, IMO, arguments can be made from both sides (as they are) as to which would sell for more today (a lot of which might vary depending on the attractiveness of a particular copy, sales venue, auction vs. fixed price, etc.)

 

 

Irrelevant?

 

As a dealer, getting CGC graded 9.4 Cerebus #1 would NEVER be irrelevant.

 

As far as the 9.2 goes... My GOD, how many times does this have to be repeated???

 

A) One sale from 2005 is all GPA has. So...

 

You mean to tell me, and I expect you to answer this question, that as a dealer - if you got in that Cerebus #1 CGC 9.2 - you'd put it out for sale at - $2136?

 

Is that what you'd do?

 

Of course not. You'd put it up for auction.

 

Gee. What would it go for? What do we have to go by?

 

A 9.4 from March of this year which blew the doors off, and a 9.0 from last year that hit $2500.

 

The logical guess is - it'd do more than $2500. Would it meet half way at about $5000? A quarter of the way at $3750? Let's ask some experts.

 

They agree - it'd rock.

 

See, you can't go by one sale from 9 years ago. You understand that right?

Like, what did 9.2 Hulk 181's sell for in 2005? $1000? $1250? Anyone?

 

One of the other things OSPG uses is the advise and imput from some of the long time dealers who handle these books everyday. They're looking at it, not from a 'I LOVE Wolverine standpoint, but from a BUSINESS standpoint.

 

They know how to use GPA. And they're smart enough not to price ANYTHING by one sale from 9 years ago. They'd have never made it in the business this long if they did that.

 

Hmmmmmmmm.....$3750 is about 60% above guide. I think that's a little ambitious. Whoever bought the last 9.4 might have thought it had 9.6, single highest graded potential, and could have overpaid for the opportunity to find out.

 

I could probably just as easily argue on behalf of the Cerebus #1

 

Like I said, dead heat. We won't figure this out until another 9.2 hits the market. If this goes on for much longer I may have to sniff one out and auction it off myself.

 

Frankly there should be a MINIMUM amount of sales before a book can even be eligible to make the list. And it should be a weighted average of all sales across all the grades. That would create a level playing field regardless of print run and eliminate books with waning or negligible impact on the hobby.

 

Again, the way Overstreet does it it stupid, as books like cerebus 1, with 0 sales in grade for years get cursory, unearned "honorary mentions" based on meaningless hypothetical "what ifs?" While books like hulk 181 is somehow penalized for having people actually buying it in grade on a regular basis which develops a real and actual cost basis. Comparing those real and hard numbers to the mythical, hypothetical unicorn numbers of a book that hasn't sold in a decade is really very stupid not to mention pointless and meaningless.

 

Get with the times overstreet.

 

-J.

 

Agreed. They shouldn't be putting Action Comics 1,, Detective Comics 27, and other books that only sell a single copy every few years in any of these lists. There just isn't enough data to fairly compare those books with other books that have more data.

Edited August 25, 2014 by rjrjr

[Jaydogrules]

Any national dealer on this board, if given a chance, would buy a Cerebus #1 CGC 9.4 over a Hulk #181 CGC 9.4 - if offered only one or the other - for $500.

 

End of story.

 

Because, thus far, they've seen, they will make MORE MONEY off the book -MEANING that in HIGH GRADE it is more VALUABLE to them.

 

Hence, it's more VALUABLE in HG as reflected in the OSPG, a guide for people who SELL comics.

 

See jaydog, you look at GPA as a novice and a fan would... As what HAS happened. A professional comic book dealer looks at it as what MAY happened, combined with what they HEAR every DAY from people who buy HG books, combined with a decades old knowledge of the marketplace.

 

Real world application vs I fell in love with Wolverine as a boy.

 

You lose.

 

 

Hi Chuck, I notice that you keep making the same point above in regards to 9.4 graded copies. However, since Overstreet's top 10 list is based on value in NM-, what 9.4's sell for is almost (but not quite) as irrelevant as what 8.5's sell for.

 

In regards to 9.2's, IMO, arguments can be made from both sides (as they are) as to which would sell for more today (a lot of which might vary depending on the attractiveness of a particular copy, sales venue, auction vs. fixed price, etc.)

 

 

Irrelevant?

 

As a dealer, getting CGC graded 9.4 Cerebus #1 would NEVER be irrelevant.

 

As far as the 9.2 goes... My GOD, how many times does this have to be repeated???

 

A) One sale from 2005 is all GPA has. So...

 

You mean to tell me, and I expect you to answer this question, that as a dealer - if you got in that Cerebus #1 CGC 9.2 - you'd put it out for sale at - $2136?

 

Is that what you'd do?

 

Of course not. You'd put it up for auction.

 

Gee. What would it go for? What do we have to go by?

 

A 9.4 from March of this year which blew the doors off, and a 9.0 from last year that hit $2500.

 

The logical guess is - it'd do more than $2500. Would it meet half way at about $5000? A quarter of the way at $3750? Let's ask some experts.

 

They agree - it'd rock.

 

See, you can't go by one sale from 9 years ago. You understand that right?

Like, what did 9.2 Hulk 181's sell for in 2005? $1000? $1250? Anyone?

 

One of the other things OSPG uses is the advise and imput from some of the long time dealers who handle these books everyday. They're looking at it, not from a 'I LOVE Wolverine standpoint, but from a BUSINESS standpoint.

 

They know how to use GPA. And they're smart enough not to price ANYTHING by one sale from 9 years ago. They'd have never made it in the business this long if they did that.

 

Hmmmmmmmm.....$3750 is about 60% above guide. I think that's a little ambitious. Whoever bought the last 9.4 might have thought it had 9.6, single highest graded potential, and could have overpaid for the opportunity to find out.

 

I could probably just as easily argue on behalf of the Cerebus #1

 

Like I said, dead heat. We won't figure this out until another 9.2 hits the market. If this goes on for much longer I may have to sniff one out and auction it off myself.

 

Frankly there should be a MINIMUM amount of sales before a book can even be eligible to make the list. And it should be a weighted average of all sales across all the grades. That would create a level playing field regardless of print run and eliminate books with waning or negligible impact on the hobby.

 

Again, the way Overstreet does it it stupid, as books like cerebus 1, with 0 sales in grade for years get cursory, unearned "honorary mentions" based on meaningless hypothetical "what ifs?" While books like hulk 181 is somehow penalized for having people actually buying it in grade on a regular basis which develops a real and actual cost basis. Comparing those real and hard numbers to the mythical, hypothetical unicorn numbers of a book that hasn't sold in a decade is really very stupid not to mention pointless and meaningless.

 

Get with the times overstreet.

 

-J.

 

Agreed. They shouldn't be putting Action Comics 1,, Detective Comics 27, and other books that only sell a single copy every few years in any of these lists. There just isn't enough data to fairly compare those books with other books that have more data.

 

GA ain't BA.

 

-J.

[Prince Namor]

Any national dealer on this board, if given a chance, would buy a Cerebus #1 CGC 9.4 over a Hulk #181 CGC 9.4 - if offered only one or the other - for $500.

 

End of story.

 

Because, thus far, they've seen, they will make MORE MONEY off the book -MEANING that in HIGH GRADE it is more VALUABLE to them.

 

Hence, it's more VALUABLE in HG as reflected in the OSPG, a guide for people who SELL comics.

 

See jaydog, you look at GPA as a novice and a fan would... As what HAS happened. A professional comic book dealer looks at it as what MAY happened, combined with what they HEAR every DAY from people who buy HG books, combined with a decades old knowledge of the marketplace.

 

Real world application vs I fell in love with Wolverine as a boy.

 

You lose.

 

 

Hi Chuck, I notice that you keep making the same point above in regards to 9.4 graded copies. However, since Overstreet's top 10 list is based on value in NM-, what 9.4's sell for is almost (but not quite) as irrelevant as what 8.5's sell for.

 

In regards to 9.2's, IMO, arguments can be made from both sides (as they are) as to which would sell for more today (a lot of which might vary depending on the attractiveness of a particular copy, sales venue, auction vs. fixed price, etc.)

 

 

Irrelevant?

 

As a dealer, getting CGC graded 9.4 Cerebus #1 would NEVER be irrelevant.

 

As far as the 9.2 goes... My GOD, how many times does this have to be repeated???

 

A) One sale from 2005 is all GPA has. So...

 

You mean to tell me, and I expect you to answer this question, that as a dealer - if you got in that Cerebus #1 CGC 9.2 - you'd put it out for sale at - $2136?

 

Is that what you'd do?

 

Of course not. You'd put it up for auction.

 

Gee. What would it go for? What do we have to go by?

 

A 9.4 from March of this year which blew the doors off, and a 9.0 from last year that hit $2500.

 

The logical guess is - it'd do more than $2500. Would it meet half way at about $5000? A quarter of the way at $3750? Let's ask some experts.

 

They agree - it'd rock.

 

See, you can't go by one sale from 9 years ago. You understand that right?

Like, what did 9.2 Hulk 181's sell for in 2005? $1000? $1250? Anyone?

 

One of the other things OSPG uses is the advise and imput from some of the long time dealers who handle these books everyday. They're looking at it, not from a 'I LOVE Wolverine standpoint, but from a BUSINESS standpoint.

 

They know how to use GPA. And they're smart enough not to price ANYTHING by one sale from 9 years ago. They'd have never made it in the business this long if they did that.

 

Hmmmmmmmm.....$3750 is about 60% above guide.

Above guide? Above guide. We just switch from GPA to the guide when it suits us in the conversation. Do you guys work for Kevin Smith or what?

 

I think that's a little ambitious.

As opposed to what Bob Overstreet thinks, who's been doing it for 44+ years, and pools his information, not JUST from GPA, but from raw sales reported by national dealers from all over the country and, ok... yeah.

 

Whoever bought the last 9.4 might have thought it had 9.6, single highest graded potential, and could have overpaid for the opportunity to find out.

Yeah, that's what people do with $9000. Just throw it up there, maybe I'll get lucky. That's exactly how it works.

 

I could probably just as easily argue on behalf of the Cerebus #1

Ok.

 

Like I said, dead heat.

People who's opinion I respect a lot more than yours think otherwise.

 

We won't figure this out until another 9.2 hits the market. If this goes on for much longer I may have to sniff one out and auction it off myself.

You'd auction it? Why? You seem to already know what the price would be...

[rjrjr]

Any national dealer on this board, if given a chance, would buy a Cerebus #1 CGC 9.4 over a Hulk #181 CGC 9.4 - if offered only one or the other - for $500.

 

End of story.

 

Because, thus far, they've seen, they will make MORE MONEY off the book -MEANING that in HIGH GRADE it is more VALUABLE to them.

 

Hence, it's more VALUABLE in HG as reflected in the OSPG, a guide for people who SELL comics.

 

See jaydog, you look at GPA as a novice and a fan would... As what HAS happened. A professional comic book dealer looks at it as what MAY happened, combined with what they HEAR every DAY from people who buy HG books, combined with a decades old knowledge of the marketplace.

 

Real world application vs I fell in love with Wolverine as a boy.

 

You lose.

 

 

Hi Chuck, I notice that you keep making the same point above in regards to 9.4 graded copies. However, since Overstreet's top 10 list is based on value in NM-, what 9.4's sell for is almost (but not quite) as irrelevant as what 8.5's sell for.

 

In regards to 9.2's, IMO, arguments can be made from both sides (as they are) as to which would sell for more today (a lot of which might vary depending on the attractiveness of a particular copy, sales venue, auction vs. fixed price, etc.)

 

 

Irrelevant?

 

As a dealer, getting CGC graded 9.4 Cerebus #1 would NEVER be irrelevant.

 

As far as the 9.2 goes... My GOD, how many times does this have to be repeated???

 

A) One sale from 2005 is all GPA has. So...

 

You mean to tell me, and I expect you to answer this question, that as a dealer - if you got in that Cerebus #1 CGC 9.2 - you'd put it out for sale at - $2136?

 

Is that what you'd do?

 

Of course not. You'd put it up for auction.

 

Gee. What would it go for? What do we have to go by?

 

A 9.4 from March of this year which blew the doors off, and a 9.0 from last year that hit $2500.

 

The logical guess is - it'd do more than $2500. Would it meet half way at about $5000? A quarter of the way at $3750? Let's ask some experts.

 

They agree - it'd rock.

 

See, you can't go by one sale from 9 years ago. You understand that right?

Like, what did 9.2 Hulk 181's sell for in 2005? $1000? $1250? Anyone?

 

One of the other things OSPG uses is the advise and imput from some of the long time dealers who handle these books everyday. They're looking at it, not from a 'I LOVE Wolverine standpoint, but from a BUSINESS standpoint.

 

They know how to use GPA. And they're smart enough not to price ANYTHING by one sale from 9 years ago. They'd have never made it in the business this long if they did that.

 

Hmmmmmmmm.....$3750 is about 60% above guide. I think that's a little ambitious. Whoever bought the last 9.4 might have thought it had 9.6, single highest graded potential, and could have overpaid for the opportunity to find out.

 

I could probably just as easily argue on behalf of the Cerebus #1

 

Like I said, dead heat. We won't figure this out until another 9.2 hits the market. If this goes on for much longer I may have to sniff one out and auction it off myself.

 

Frankly there should be a MINIMUM amount of sales before a book can even be eligible to make the list. And it should be a weighted average of all sales across all the grades. That would create a level playing field regardless of print run and eliminate books with waning or negligible impact on the hobby.

 

Again, the way Overstreet does it it stupid, as books like cerebus 1, with 0 sales in grade for years get cursory, unearned "honorary mentions" based on meaningless hypothetical "what ifs?" While books like hulk 181 is somehow penalized for having people actually buying it in grade on a regular basis which develops a real and actual cost basis. Comparing those real and hard numbers to the mythical, hypothetical unicorn numbers of a book that hasn't sold in a decade is really very stupid not to mention pointless and meaningless.

 

Get with the times overstreet.

 

-J.

 

Agreed. They shouldn't be putting Action Comics 1,, Detective Comics 27, and other books that only sell a single copy every few years in any of these lists. There just isn't enough data to fairly compare those books with other books that have more data.

 

GA ain't BA.

 

-J.

 

You want to put way too many parameters around these simple top valued book for the age list. They are interesting lists for people that might attract attention to a book that might not otherwise get the attention. As a comic collector, I value these lists over a list made up by Marvel and DC fans that would contain the same boring 10 superhero issues year after year after year. (I can get those lists every day of the week just reading these boards.) I don't think there is a comic collector around who doesn't know that IH 181 is a valuable book and is Wolverine's 1st full appearance. But, a list with Cerebus will make a comic collector stop and think. Cerebus hasn't been published in what, 10 years. It is also not a big 2 title. So for it to command the value it does, is pretty remarkable.

 

Should TMNT 1 be dropped from any Copper Age list? Not enough sales in a year to warrant it being on that list too? But taking that stance would be silly, correct?

 

Personally, I think Overstreet is doing a service to the comic collecting community by not pushing the same, tired old superhero year after year. There is a much larger collecting community out there outside the big 2 and they do a very good job of reflecting that.

 

We have a unbiased top 10 list and someone is taking issue with it because a comic which deserves to be in a top 10 list of most valuable BA books does not have enough copies in circulation to be considered.

Edited August 25, 2014 by rjrjr

[Superman2006]

Any national dealer on this board, if given a chance, would buy a Cerebus #1 CGC 9.4 over a Hulk #181 CGC 9.4 - if offered only one or the other - for $500.

 

End of story.

 

Because, thus far, they've seen, they will make MORE MONEY off the book -MEANING that in HIGH GRADE it is more VALUABLE to them.

 

Hence, it's more VALUABLE in HG as reflected in the OSPG, a guide for people who SELL comics.

 

See jaydog, you look at GPA as a novice and a fan would... As what HAS happened. A professional comic book dealer looks at it as what MAY happened, combined with what they HEAR every DAY from people who buy HG books, combined with a decades old knowledge of the marketplace.

 

Real world application vs I fell in love with Wolverine as a boy.

 

You lose.

 

 

Hi Chuck, I notice that you keep making the same point above in regards to 9.4 graded copies. However, since Overstreet's top 10 list is based on value in NM-, what 9.4's sell for is almost (but not quite) as irrelevant as what 8.5's sell for.

 

In regards to 9.2's, IMO, arguments can be made from both sides (as they are) as to which would sell for more today (a lot of which might vary depending on the attractiveness of a particular copy, sales venue, auction vs. fixed price, etc.)

 

 

Irrelevant?

 

As a dealer, getting CGC graded 9.4 Cerebus #1 would NEVER be irrelevant.

 

My point was that Overstreet lists a top 10 based on a grade of NM-/9.2. Period. When developing a list of values in NM-/9.2, except / unless values in other nearby grades need to be used to estimate the value of a given book in NM-/9.2 for purposes of Overstreet assigning a value in NM-/9.2, the fact that a (highest graded) 9.4 Cerebus might sell for multiples of a (non highest graded) 9.4 Hulk 181 doesn't matter, just like it doesn't matter that an 8.5 Hulk 181 might sell for multiples of what an 8.5 Cerebus #1 might sell for. For purposes of Overstreet's NM-/9.2 guide values and correponding top 10 list based on those values, all that really matters is what NM-/9.2 copies of each book are valued at.

 

I never said that a dealer getting a 9.4 Cerebus 1 would be an irrelevant event for that dealer. Look back at the context of my comments.

 

As far as the 9.2 goes... My GOD, how many times does this have to be repeated???

 

Are you kidding me? Based on my comments above about 9.2's, I can't fathom why you would feel the need to repeat anything that has already been stated. I'm well aware of what has been stated, and I stand by my comments above.

 

A) One sale from 2005 is all GPA has. So...

 

You mean to tell me, and I expect you to answer this question, that as a dealer - if you got in that Cerebus #1 CGC 9.2 - you'd put it out for sale at - $2136?

 

Where in my comments above did I state that I would put a 9.2 Cerebus 1 for sale at $2,136. That's right, I didn't. For the record, in case it's not clear, I didn't say that I'd put a 9.2 Hulk 181 for sale at $2,136 either.

 

Is that what you'd do?

 

Of course not. You'd put it up for auction.

 

Not necessarily. I might consider an auction, or I might consider a reasonable but somewhat aggressive fixed price knowing that since the supply is low that the right buyer might pop the buy it now eventually.

 

Gee. What would it go for? What do we have to go by?

 

A 9.4 from March of this year which blew the doors off, and a 9.0 from last year that hit $2500.

 

The logical guess is - it'd do more than $2500.

 

Yes, one would think so.

 

Would it meet half way at about $5000? A quarter of the way at $3750? Let's ask some experts.

 

They agree - it'd rock.

 

Who are these experts and how much do they think it would go for? How much do these experts value a 9.2 Hulk 181 at? Are those that think a 181 would go for more not to be considered experts and therefore, are their opinions thrown out?

 

 

See, you can't go by one sale from 9 years ago.

 

I never said that I valued a Cerebus 1 at the price it last sold for 9 years ago.

 

You understand that right?

 

Check. See comments above.

 

Like, what did 9.2 Hulk 181's sell for in 2005? $1000? $1250? Anyone?

 

Anyone? Me, me, pick me. Eyeballing GPA it looks like 9.2 Hulk 181's might have averaged around $1,250+/-. The price of a 9.2 today is much higher than that... Of course the increase in value of Hulk 181's in 9.2 between 2005 and today is irrelevant to the discussion of determining the relative value of Cerebus 1's vs. Hulk 181's today, all that matters is the value of each today (or if looking at a particular Overstreet guide, the value based on the time period under the applicable exposure period).

 

Don't worry, I "get" that the Cerebus 1 sale in 2005 does not tell us the value of a Cerebus 1 today. To do that, one must either have access to recent 9.2 sales today, or else they will obviously need to estimate the value.

 

One of the other things OSPG uses is the advise and imput from some of the long time dealers who handle these books everyday.

 

I'd like to know which dealer handles 9.2 copies of Cerebus 1 every day. Raw or graded. If you're talking about Cerebus 1 values for other graded copies, then one might look at the trend of sales for both nearby higher and lower graded copies. To look at just the trend only on higher graded copies would be an error, and to look at the trend only on lower graded copies would be an error.

 

They're looking at it, not from a 'I LOVE Wolverine standpoint, but from a BUSINESS standpoint.

 

Are you saying that my comments above are based on an "I LOVE Wolverine" stand point, rather than a factual standpoint. Now you're really starting to lose me.

 

They know how to use GPA. And they're smart enough not to price ANYTHING by one sale from 9 years ago. They'd have never made it in the business this long if they did that.

 

I repeat - I never stated that I value Cerebus 1 in the amount that the copy sold for 9 years ago.

 

Please reread my original comments, as you clearly misunderstood what I said and appear to have read a lot more into my comments that what I actually said.

[Jaydogrules]

Any national dealer on this board, if given a chance, would buy a Cerebus #1 CGC 9.4 over a Hulk #181 CGC 9.4 - if offered only one or the other - for $500.

 

End of story.

 

Because, thus far, they've seen, they will make MORE MONEY off the book -MEANING that in HIGH GRADE it is more VALUABLE to them.

 

Hence, it's more VALUABLE in HG as reflected in the OSPG, a guide for people who SELL comics.

 

See jaydog, you look at GPA as a novice and a fan would... As what HAS happened. A professional comic book dealer looks at it as what MAY happened, combined with what they HEAR every DAY from people who buy HG books, combined with a decades old knowledge of the marketplace.

 

Real world application vs I fell in love with Wolverine as a boy.

 

You lose.

 

 

Hi Chuck, I notice that you keep making the same point above in regards to 9.4 graded copies. However, since Overstreet's top 10 list is based on value in NM-, what 9.4's sell for is almost (but not quite) as irrelevant as what 8.5's sell for.

 

In regards to 9.2's, IMO, arguments can be made from both sides (as they are) as to which would sell for more today (a lot of which might vary depending on the attractiveness of a particular copy, sales venue, auction vs. fixed price, etc.)

 

 

Irrelevant?

 

As a dealer, getting CGC graded 9.4 Cerebus #1 would NEVER be irrelevant.

 

As far as the 9.2 goes... My GOD, how many times does this have to be repeated???

 

A) One sale from 2005 is all GPA has. So...

 

You mean to tell me, and I expect you to answer this question, that as a dealer - if you got in that Cerebus #1 CGC 9.2 - you'd put it out for sale at - $2136?

 

Is that what you'd do?

 

Of course not. You'd put it up for auction.

 

Gee. What would it go for? What do we have to go by?

 

A 9.4 from March of this year which blew the doors off, and a 9.0 from last year that hit $2500.

 

The logical guess is - it'd do more than $2500. Would it meet half way at about $5000? A quarter of the way at $3750? Let's ask some experts.

 

They agree - it'd rock.

 

See, you can't go by one sale from 9 years ago. You understand that right?

Like, what did 9.2 Hulk 181's sell for in 2005? $1000? $1250? Anyone?

 

One of the other things OSPG uses is the advise and imput from some of the long time dealers who handle these books everyday. They're looking at it, not from a 'I LOVE Wolverine standpoint, but from a BUSINESS standpoint.

 

They know how to use GPA. And they're smart enough not to price ANYTHING by one sale from 9 years ago. They'd have never made it in the business this long if they did that.

 

Hmmmmmmmm.....$3750 is about 60% above guide. I think that's a little ambitious. Whoever bought the last 9.4 might have thought it had 9.6, single highest graded potential, and could have overpaid for the opportunity to find out.

 

I could probably just as easily argue on behalf of the Cerebus #1

 

Like I said, dead heat. We won't figure this out until another 9.2 hits the market. If this goes on for much longer I may have to sniff one out and auction it off myself.

 

Frankly there should be a MINIMUM amount of sales before a book can even be eligible to make the list. And it should be a weighted average of all sales across all the grades. That would create a level playing field regardless of print run and eliminate books with waning or negligible impact on the hobby.

 

Again, the way Overstreet does it it stupid, as books like cerebus 1, with 0 sales in grade for years get cursory, unearned "honorary mentions" based on meaningless hypothetical "what ifs?" While books like hulk 181 is somehow penalized for having people actually buying it in grade on a regular basis which develops a real and actual cost basis. Comparing those real and hard numbers to the mythical, hypothetical unicorn numbers of a book that hasn't sold in a decade is really very stupid not to mention pointless and meaningless.

 

Get with the times overstreet.

 

-J.

 

Agreed. They shouldn't be putting Action Comics 1,, Detective Comics 27, and other books that only sell a single copy every few years in any of these lists. There just isn't enough data to fairly compare those books with other books that have more data.

 

GA ain't BA.

 

-J.

 

You want to put way too many parameters around these simple top valued book for the age list. They are interesting lists for people that might attract attention to a book that might not otherwise get the attention. As a comic collector, I value these lists over a list made up by Marvel and DC fans that would contain the same boring 10 superhero issues year after year after year. (I can get those lists every day of the week just reading these boards.) I don't think there is a comic collector around who doesn't know that IH 181 is a valuable book and is Wolverine's 1st full appearance. But, a list with Cerebus will make a comic collector stop and think. Cerebus hasn't been published in what, 10 years. It is also not a big 2 title. So for it to command the value it does, is pretty remarkable.

 

Should TMNT 1 be dropped from any Copper Age list? Not enough sales in a year to warrant it being on that list too? But taking that stance would be silly, correct?

 

Personally, I think Overstreet is doing a service to the comic collecting community by not pushing the same, tired old superhero year after year. There is a much larger collecting community out there outside the big 2 and they do a very good job of reflecting that.

 

We have a unbiased top 10 list and someone is taking issue with it because a comic which deserves to be in a top 10 list of most valuable BA books does not have enough copies in circulation to be considered.

 

Actually there are plenty of sales a year of cerebus 1 that could be taken into consideration. However a weighted average of those sales would not likely get it anywhere near the list. And ONE sale a year or every ten years in its top grades certainly do not warrant it an "honorary mention" year after year simply because it is a "non super hero comic". Therein lies the fatal flaw in Overstreet's current methodology.

 

-J.

[HighStakesComics]

Any national dealer on this board, if given a chance, would buy a Cerebus #1 CGC 9.4 over a Hulk #181 CGC 9.4 - if offered only one or the other - for $500.

 

End of story.

 

Because, thus far, they've seen, they will make MORE MONEY off the book -MEANING that in HIGH GRADE it is more VALUABLE to them.

 

Hence, it's more VALUABLE in HG as reflected in the OSPG, a guide for people who SELL comics.

 

See jaydog, you look at GPA as a novice and a fan would... As what HAS happened. A professional comic book dealer looks at it as what MAY happened, combined with what they HEAR every DAY from people who buy HG books, combined with a decades old knowledge of the marketplace.

 

Real world application vs I fell in love with Wolverine as a boy.

 

You lose.

 

 

Hi Chuck, I notice that you keep making the same point above in regards to 9.4 graded copies. However, since Overstreet's top 10 list is based on value in NM-, what 9.4's sell for is almost (but not quite) as irrelevant as what 8.5's sell for.

 

In regards to 9.2's, IMO, arguments can be made from both sides (as they are) as to which would sell for more today (a lot of which might vary depending on the attractiveness of a particular copy, sales venue, auction vs. fixed price, etc.)

 

 

Irrelevant?

 

As a dealer, getting CGC graded 9.4 Cerebus #1 would NEVER be irrelevant.

 

As far as the 9.2 goes... My GOD, how many times does this have to be repeated???

 

A) One sale from 2005 is all GPA has. So...

 

You mean to tell me, and I expect you to answer this question, that as a dealer - if you got in that Cerebus #1 CGC 9.2 - you'd put it out for sale at - $2136?

 

Is that what you'd do?

 

Of course not. You'd put it up for auction.

 

Gee. What would it go for? What do we have to go by?

 

A 9.4 from March of this year which blew the doors off, and a 9.0 from last year that hit $2500.

 

The logical guess is - it'd do more than $2500. Would it meet half way at about $5000? A quarter of the way at $3750? Let's ask some experts.

 

They agree - it'd rock.

 

See, you can't go by one sale from 9 years ago. You understand that right?

Like, what did 9.2 Hulk 181's sell for in 2005? $1000? $1250? Anyone?

 

One of the other things OSPG uses is the advise and imput from some of the long time dealers who handle these books everyday. They're looking at it, not from a 'I LOVE Wolverine standpoint, but from a BUSINESS standpoint.

 

They know how to use GPA. And they're smart enough not to price ANYTHING by one sale from 9 years ago. They'd have never made it in the business this long if they did that.

 

Hmmmmmmmm.....$3750 is about 60% above guide.

Above guide? Above guide. We just switch from GPA to the guide when it suits us in the conversation. Do you guys work for Kevin Smith or what?

 

I think that's a little ambitious.

As opposed to what Bob Overstreet thinks, who's been doing it for 44+ years, and pools his information, not JUST from GPA, but from raw sales reported by national dealers from all over the country and, ok... yeah.

 

Whoever bought the last 9.4 might have thought it had 9.6, single highest graded potential, and could have overpaid for the opportunity to find out.

Yeah, that's what people do with $9000. Just throw it up there, maybe I'll get lucky. That's exactly how it works.

 

I could probably just as easily argue on behalf of the Cerebus #1

Ok.

 

Like I said, dead heat.

People who's opinion I respect a lot more than yours think otherwise.

 

We won't figure this out until another 9.2 hits the market. If this goes on for much longer I may have to sniff one out and auction it off myself.

You'd auction it? Why? You seem to already know what the price would be...

 

If you were to get your home appraised you would need a few comparable sales to justify the value. There isn't a single 9.2 sale we can find anywhere that indicates the book would breach $3k, let alone $3750. Neither GPA or OPG can be used to state your case. By the same token, there is a sale that you have not mentioned once that does not help your cause one bit. In 2/2012 an SS 9.0 copy sold for a little over $1430. Nothing about this sale, which is as good a comp as any we have, would demonstrate any reason to estimate a value of $3750. There was a 9.0 before that which had hit roughly $1750, but the book was a file copy and SS. 2 out of the 3 best comparables did not even reach $2k. $3750 is a reach. That number is simply unrealistic.

As far as the 9.4 sale that you are in love with, yes, people whose opinion you respect more than mine have probably bought a book for no other reason than they thought it was a strong upgrade candidate. I've done it. Potentializing is part of the game. It just made a guy >$1,000,000 doing exactly that on an Action #1 tonight. If you don't think this occurs in less expensive books like the Cerebus #1, you could possibly be experiencing some naïveté.

 

[Jaydogrules]

Any national dealer on this board, if given a chance, would buy a Cerebus #1 CGC 9.4 over a Hulk #181 CGC 9.4 - if offered only one or the other - for $500.

 

End of story.

 

Because, thus far, they've seen, they will make MORE MONEY off the book -MEANING that in HIGH GRADE it is more VALUABLE to them.

 

Hence, it's more VALUABLE in HG as reflected in the OSPG, a guide for people who SELL comics.

 

See jaydog, you look at GPA as a novice and a fan would... As what HAS happened. A professional comic book dealer looks at it as what MAY happened, combined with what they HEAR every DAY from people who buy HG books, combined with a decades old knowledge of the marketplace.

 

Real world application vs I fell in love with Wolverine as a boy.

 

You lose.

 

 

Hi Chuck, I notice that you keep making the same point above in regards to 9.4 graded copies. However, since Overstreet's top 10 list is based on value in NM-, what 9.4's sell for is almost (but not quite) as irrelevant as what 8.5's sell for.

 

In regards to 9.2's, IMO, arguments can be made from both sides (as they are) as to which would sell for more today (a lot of which might vary depending on the attractiveness of a particular copy, sales venue, auction vs. fixed price, etc.)

 

 

Irrelevant?

 

As a dealer, getting CGC graded 9.4 Cerebus #1 would NEVER be irrelevant.

 

As far as the 9.2 goes... My GOD, how many times does this have to be repeated???

 

A) One sale from 2005 is all GPA has. So...

 

You mean to tell me, and I expect you to answer this question, that as a dealer - if you got in that Cerebus #1 CGC 9.2 - you'd put it out for sale at - $2136?

 

Is that what you'd do?

 

Of course not. You'd put it up for auction.

 

Gee. What would it go for? What do we have to go by?

 

A 9.4 from March of this year which blew the doors off, and a 9.0 from last year that hit $2500.

 

The logical guess is - it'd do more than $2500. Would it meet half way at about $5000? A quarter of the way at $3750? Let's ask some experts.

 

They agree - it'd rock.

 

See, you can't go by one sale from 9 years ago. You understand that right?

Like, what did 9.2 Hulk 181's sell for in 2005? $1000? $1250? Anyone?

 

One of the other things OSPG uses is the advise and imput from some of the long time dealers who handle these books everyday. They're looking at it, not from a 'I LOVE Wolverine standpoint, but from a BUSINESS standpoint.

 

They know how to use GPA. And they're smart enough not to price ANYTHING by one sale from 9 years ago. They'd have never made it in the business this long if they did that.

 

Hmmmmmmmm.....$3750 is about 60% above guide.

Above guide? Above guide. We just switch from GPA to the guide when it suits us in the conversation. Do you guys work for Kevin Smith or what?

 

I think that's a little ambitious.

As opposed to what Bob Overstreet thinks, who's been doing it for 44+ years, and pools his information, not JUST from GPA, but from raw sales reported by national dealers from all over the country and, ok... yeah.

 

Whoever bought the last 9.4 might have thought it had 9.6, single highest graded potential, and could have overpaid for the opportunity to find out.

Yeah, that's what people do with $9000. Just throw it up there, maybe I'll get lucky. That's exactly how it works.

 

I could probably just as easily argue on behalf of the Cerebus #1

Ok.

 

Like I said, dead heat.

People who's opinion I respect a lot more than yours think otherwise.

 

We won't figure this out until another 9.2 hits the market. If this goes on for much longer I may have to sniff one out and auction it off myself.

You'd auction it? Why? You seem to already know what the price would be...

 

If you were to get your home appraised you would need a few comparable sales to justify the value. There isn't a single 9.2 sale we can find anywhere that indicates the book would breach $3k, let alone $3750. Neither GPA or OPG can be used to state your case. By the same token, there is a sale that you have not mentioned once that does not help your cause one bit. In 2/2012 an SS 9.0 copy sold for a little over $1430. Nothing about this sale, which is as good a comp as any we have, would demonstrate any reason to estimate a value of $3750. There was a 9.0 before that which had hit roughly $1750, but the book was a file copy and SS. 2 out of the 3 best comparables did not even reach $2k. $3750 is a reach. That number is simply unrealistic.

As far as the 9.4 sale that you are in love with, yes, people whose opinion you respect more than mine have probably bought a book for no other reason than they thought it was a strong upgrade candidate. I've done it. Potentializing is part of the game. It just made a guy >$1,000,000 doing exactly that on an Action #1 tonight. If you don't think this occurs in less expensive books like the Cerebus #1, you could possibly be experiencing some naïveté.

 

Careful blaze....lest you be accused of "intellectual dishonesty" for having the audacity to quote actual publicly available facts and figures.

 

Hulk SMASH!

 

-J.

[rjrjr]

Any national dealer on this board, if given a chance, would buy a Cerebus #1 CGC 9.4 over a Hulk #181 CGC 9.4 - if offered only one or the other - for $500.

 

End of story.

 

Because, thus far, they've seen, they will make MORE MONEY off the book -MEANING that in HIGH GRADE it is more VALUABLE to them.

 

Hence, it's more VALUABLE in HG as reflected in the OSPG, a guide for people who SELL comics.

 

See jaydog, you look at GPA as a novice and a fan would... As what HAS happened. A professional comic book dealer looks at it as what MAY happened, combined with what they HEAR every DAY from people who buy HG books, combined with a decades old knowledge of the marketplace.

 

Real world application vs I fell in love with Wolverine as a boy.

 

You lose.

 

 

Hi Chuck, I notice that you keep making the same point above in regards to 9.4 graded copies. However, since Overstreet's top 10 list is based on value in NM-, what 9.4's sell for is almost (but not quite) as irrelevant as what 8.5's sell for.

 

In regards to 9.2's, IMO, arguments can be made from both sides (as they are) as to which would sell for more today (a lot of which might vary depending on the attractiveness of a particular copy, sales venue, auction vs. fixed price, etc.)

 

 

Irrelevant?

 

As a dealer, getting CGC graded 9.4 Cerebus #1 would NEVER be irrelevant.

 

As far as the 9.2 goes... My GOD, how many times does this have to be repeated???

 

A) One sale from 2005 is all GPA has. So...

 

You mean to tell me, and I expect you to answer this question, that as a dealer - if you got in that Cerebus #1 CGC 9.2 - you'd put it out for sale at - $2136?

 

Is that what you'd do?

 

Of course not. You'd put it up for auction.

 

Gee. What would it go for? What do we have to go by?

 

A 9.4 from March of this year which blew the doors off, and a 9.0 from last year that hit $2500.

 

The logical guess is - it'd do more than $2500. Would it meet half way at about $5000? A quarter of the way at $3750? Let's ask some experts.

 

They agree - it'd rock.

 

See, you can't go by one sale from 9 years ago. You understand that right?

Like, what did 9.2 Hulk 181's sell for in 2005? $1000? $1250? Anyone?

 

One of the other things OSPG uses is the advise and imput from some of the long time dealers who handle these books everyday. They're looking at it, not from a 'I LOVE Wolverine standpoint, but from a BUSINESS standpoint.

 

They know how to use GPA. And they're smart enough not to price ANYTHING by one sale from 9 years ago. They'd have never made it in the business this long if they did that.

 

Hmmmmmmmm.....$3750 is about 60% above guide. I think that's a little ambitious. Whoever bought the last 9.4 might have thought it had 9.6, single highest graded potential, and could have overpaid for the opportunity to find out.

 

I could probably just as easily argue on behalf of the Cerebus #1

 

Like I said, dead heat. We won't figure this out until another 9.2 hits the market. If this goes on for much longer I may have to sniff one out and auction it off myself.

 

Frankly there should be a MINIMUM amount of sales before a book can even be eligible to make the list. And it should be a weighted average of all sales across all the grades. That would create a level playing field regardless of print run and eliminate books with waning or negligible impact on the hobby.

 

Again, the way Overstreet does it it stupid, as books like cerebus 1, with 0 sales in grade for years get cursory, unearned "honorary mentions" based on meaningless hypothetical "what ifs?" While books like hulk 181 is somehow penalized for having people actually buying it in grade on a regular basis which develops a real and actual cost basis. Comparing those real and hard numbers to the mythical, hypothetical unicorn numbers of a book that hasn't sold in a decade is really very stupid not to mention pointless and meaningless.

 

Get with the times overstreet.

 

-J.

 

Agreed. They shouldn't be putting Action Comics 1,, Detective Comics 27, and other books that only sell a single copy every few years in any of these lists. There just isn't enough data to fairly compare those books with other books that have more data.

 

GA ain't BA.

 

-J.

 

You want to put way too many parameters around these simple top valued book for the age list. They are interesting lists for people that might attract attention to a book that might not otherwise get the attention. As a comic collector, I value these lists over a list made up by Marvel and DC fans that would contain the same boring 10 superhero issues year after year after year. (I can get those lists every day of the week just reading these boards.) I don't think there is a comic collector around who doesn't know that IH 181 is a valuable book and is Wolverine's 1st full appearance. But, a list with Cerebus will make a comic collector stop and think. Cerebus hasn't been published in what, 10 years. It is also not a big 2 title. So for it to command the value it does, is pretty remarkable.

 

Should TMNT 1 be dropped from any Copper Age list? Not enough sales in a year to warrant it being on that list too? But taking that stance would be silly, correct?

 

Personally, I think Overstreet is doing a service to the comic collecting community by not pushing the same, tired old superhero year after year. There is a much larger collecting community out there outside the big 2 and they do a very good job of reflecting that.

 

We have a unbiased top 10 list and someone is taking issue with it because a comic which deserves to be in a top 10 list of most valuable BA books does not have enough copies in circulation to be considered.

 

Actually there are plenty of sales a year of cerebus 1 that could be taken into consideration. However a weighted average of those sales would not likely get it anywhere near the list. And ONE sale a year or every ten years in its top grades certainly do not warrant it an "honorary mention" year after year simply because it is a "non super hero comic". Therein lies the fatal flaw in Overstreet's current methodology.

 

-J.

 

This discussion is going off topic, but I'm guessing all the facts that are going to come out on the subject have already been debated, so....

 

Interesting. What you see as a flaw I see as a strength. So, if I were asked the question "is Overstreet irrelevant?", my answer would be no, for the very reasons I see other people arguing why Overstreet is irrelevant. I've noticed every year, the Overstreet book usually has one Marvel cover, one DC cover, and one independent cover. I applaud Overstreet for acknowledging there is a much larger world of comics beyond the big 2. Yearly lists that concentrated on the big 2 would do a huge disservice to the comic collecting community and wouldn't acknowledge the large portion of the market that is not superheroes. I'm okay with an "honorary mention" (I disagree with this, but I can see your point) for a title like Cerebus. The importance of the superheroes books are fairly represented in these lists and throwing a non-big 2 book or two on a list doesn't hurt anyone. Big 2 collectors are not going to lose interest in a book like IH 181 just because Cerebus shows up a ranking higher on a value list one year.

 

Sure, Overstreet has been a yearly publication that prints a "value" for comic books. It has also been a focal point for collectors and dealers over the years to discuss and debate the ages; to highlight collections and books that aren't necessary mainstream; to debate and research other aspects of the hobby like how printing works, Whitman's role, and other obscure information; and for large dealers to advertise which allows collectors to find the big dealers that will have those harder to find comics. I don't know if the owners of Overstreet understand how important their publication has been to the hobby over the years, but I suspect they do. While they have more competition these days in the form of the Internet, I still applaud them for maintaining a level of integrity in reporting on the entire US comic market and not just the current hot books. (We had publications over the years that did that and where are they now?) Are they completely unbiased? I really can't say, but I've never felt they were biased. I think they have been fair over the years and have brought immense knowledge to the market that wouldn't have existed otherwise.

 

I'm a collector who is just now getting into foreign comics. Overstreet provides a huge service to US comic collectors that foreign comic collectors only dream about. For example, I know what Star Wars comics are available in the US, whereas I'm still learning what is out there in the world from a foreign perspective. There is no one publication I can go reference for this information. I look forward to the day that someone publishes a foreign comics yearly that I can reference as much as I have with Overstreet over the years.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Any national dealer on this board, if given a chance, would buy a Cerebus #1 CGC 9.4 over a Hulk #181 CGC 9.4 - if offered only one or the other - for $500.

 

End of story.

 

Because, thus far, they've seen, they will make MORE MONEY off the book -MEANING that in HIGH GRADE it is more VALUABLE to them.

 

Hence, it's more VALUABLE in HG as reflected in the OSPG, a guide for people who SELL comics.

 

See jaydog, you look at GPA as a novice and a fan would... As what HAS happened. A professional comic book dealer looks at it as what MAY happened, combined with what they HEAR every DAY from people who buy HG books, combined with a decades old knowledge of the marketplace.

 

Real world application vs I fell in love with Wolverine as a boy.

 

You lose.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Dear Audience,

 

I am a Wolverine fan.

 

Sincerely,

 

Partisan

 

Finally!

 

Jaydog says something TRUE!

 

 

RMA, can I ask your opinion on a completely unrelated, off-topic question?

 

Sure.