1st Teen Titans 3 3

[VintageComics]

Once again,

 

The editorial comment is generic for the team-up title that Brave and the Bold had become. That little blurb also declares, "Watch Brave and Bold for new teams, new adventures, new excitement!" But the only new team that appeared in the title after that issue was the Teen Titans when they were introduced in issue 60... until the final issue that introduced the Outsiders nearly 150 issues and 20 years later!

 

Well, of course it was a generic write up.

 

But DC implicitly stated "Once again a startling new team of DC heroes has triumphed"

 

They were a team. They were just unnamed.

 

It's not that hard to accept that a team can be a team without an official name. Obviously, some editor at some point read through BB #54, saw the theme of the story as being about teenagers and finally thought up the catchy name "Teen Titans" and the reused what was essentially the same team for BB #60.

 

They were a team of teenagers. They were just unnamed in #54. I still have no problem accepting it was their 1st appearance.

[sfcityduck]

is it that hard to go through the entire thread ? or even the first 10 pages ? or even go back a couple pages from the end ?

 

All discussions go through circular reasoning and stuff gets repeated. I just can't understand why it's so difficult to grasp/admit that they first appeared in #54.

 

Circular arguments without actually using the knowledge which has been laid out is a waste of time.

 

And yet I see argument after argument claiming BB 60 is the first TT appearance even though DC and the vast majority in the comic collecting community say that is not true. Ignoring all the reasoned argument in favor of BB54. And what's worse is that someone is posting this nonsense to Wikipedias in order to try and pump up the price of the book. It's a low point.

[HighStakesComics]

is it that hard to go through the entire thread ? or even the first 10 pages ? or even go back a couple pages from the end ?

 

All discussions go through circular reasoning and stuff gets repeated. I just can't understand why it's so difficult to grasp/admit that they first appeared in #54.

 

Circular arguments without actually using the knowledge which has been laid out is a waste of time.

 

And yet I see argument after argument claiming BB 60 is the first TT appearance even though DC and the vast majority in the comic collecting community say that is not true. Ignoring all the reasoned argument in favor of BB54. And what's worse is that someone is posting this nonsense to Wikipedias in order to try and pump up the price of the book. It's a low point.

 

Or perhaps BB 60 was at one time considered the first appearance, which is consistent with the panels posted throughout the thread, until Bob Overstreet shifted the market by erroneously mistaking the first appearance was ambiguously worded into the last sentence of the last panel of BB 54 in Volume 10 of his price guide published in the year of our lord 1980?

[HighStakesComics]

There is also an article near the back of the 2015 OPG guide which states BB 60 is the first appearance. It's very possible this is all about to come full circle.

[sfcityduck]

 

Or perhaps BB 60 was at one time considered the first appearance, which is consistent with the panels posted throughout the thread, until Bob Overstreet shifted the market by erroneously mistaking the first appearance was ambiguously worded into the last sentence of the last panel of BB 54 in Volume 10 of his price guide published in the year of our lord 1980?

 

I'm not sure when that would be. After all, BB60 specifically cites to BB54 when it says the formation of the TT pre-dated BB60:

 

 

So it was established by DC the first time that the name Teen Titans was used that the group originated in BB54. Moreover, the first time the story from BB54 was reprinted, in 1972, in DC 100 Page Super Spectacular DC-21, it was labeled on the cover as being a "Teen Titans" story.

 

Hard to fault Overstreet for calling BB54 the first Teen Titans appearance when that's exactly what DC was doing back when the Guide was first written.

 

Of course, subsequent DC publications, such as the Archives and 50th Anniversay HC, have also confirmed BB54 was the first appearance and origin of the TT. Bob got it right. That's why every dealer, including you, list BB54 as a TT book.

[sfcityduck]

There is also an article near the back of the 2015 OPG guide which states BB 60 is the first appearance. It's very possible this is all about to come full circle.

 

Nah. All this is going to accomplish is to get people patroling wiki's and correcting the record because they are annoyed at the market manipulation. I've already sent a note off to OPG. Spreading misinformation, MisStakesComics, tends to annoy people, especially when you're selling BB54 without disclaiming that it is a TT book. Annoyed people become active. That's why this thread isn't dying. You're just rallying an opposition to your cause.

[HighStakesComics]

 

Or perhaps BB 60 was at one time considered the first appearance, which is consistent with the panels posted throughout the thread, until Bob Overstreet shifted the market by erroneously mistaking the first appearance was ambiguously worded into the last sentence of the last panel of BB 54 in Volume 10 of his price guide published in the year of our lord 1980?

 

I'm not sure when that would be. After all, BB60 specifically cites to BB54 when it says the formation of the TT pre-dated BB60:

 

 

So it was established by DC the first time that the name Teen Titans was used that the group originated in BB54. Moreover, the first time the story from BB54 was reprinted, in 1972, in DC 100 Page Super Spectacular DC-21, it was labeled on the cover as being a "Teen Titans" story.

 

Hard to fault Overstreet for calling BB54 the first Teen Titans appearance when that's exactly what DC was doing back when the Guide was first written.

 

Of course, subsequent DC publications, such as the Archives and 50th Anniversay HC, have also confirmed BB54 was the first appearance and origin of the TT. Bob got it right. That's why every dealer, including you, list BB54 as a TT book.

 

I think the fact that BB 54 is cited in 60 makes it a "Teen Titans Story". So I guess then the question becomes can it be a Teen Titans story without being a first appearance? My answer to that would be absolutely! To quote Robin himself the Titans were a team set up "After Kid Flash, Aqualad and I helped the teenaged of Hatton Corners." This puts the formation of the team in between 54 and 60. So perhaps I am being generous calling BB 54 an origin story, but I have never listed and sold a BB 54 as a first appearance, nor will I. I don't blame you for bringing it up though. Your case for the 54 is in dire need of a red herring.

[HighStakesComics]

There is also an article near the back of the 2015 OPG guide which states BB 60 is the first appearance. It's very possible this is all about to come full circle.

 

Nah. All this is going to accomplish is to get people patroling wiki's and correcting the record because they are annoyed at the market manipulation. I've already sent a note off to OPG. Spreading misinformation, MisStakesComics, tends to annoy people, especially when you're selling BB54 without disclaiming that it is a TT book. Annoyed people become active. That's why this thread isn't dying. You're just rallying an opposition to your cause.

 

Just like everything else I've posted here I can back this up by posting panels. I will post the article I mentioned later. Speaking of panels, I'm still waiting for yours

[sfcityduck]

 

Just like everything else I've posted here I can back this up by posting panels. I will post the article I mentioned later. Speaking of panels, I'm still waiting for yours

 

Any panels you requested have been posted. Unless your request was a strawman, like asking for a panel from BB54 that uses the name "Teen Titans."

 

If you have so much energy, I think you ought to start a thread arguing that Animal Man's first appearance was Strange Adventures 190 instead of 180 (or even 184) because that is when he got the name.

 

I also look forward to your thread presenting the argument that Uncanny X-Men 129 is not the first appearance of a certain Marvel hero because she didn't get a superhero name until Uncanny X-Men 139.

[Lazyboy]

An individual's codename is a completely different animal (man) than a team.

 

Yet again:

 

A team doesn't exist until it's officially formed. You still exist even if I don't know your name.

 

The name isn't the most important part.

[sfcityduck]

An individual's codename is a completely different animal (man) than a team.

 

Yet again:

 

A team doesn't exist until it's officially formed. You still exist even if I don't know your name.

 

The name isn't the most important part.

 

How is a team "officially formed'? Is there a registration process? Does the team get a license?

 

C'mon. A team of the TT sort (like JLA or Avengers) is nothing more than a collection of individual heroes who periodically come together to fight a common menace, usually separate and apart from their many solo adventures. The team is formed when it first comes together and commences the group adventures. There are no "rules" for team formation. Nothing says that a team cannot pre-exist its team name, just as superheroes pre-exist their superhero names ala Animal Man, Ant-Man, and Kitty Pryde.

 

This semantic argument is very unconvincing.

[Lazyboy]

An individual's codename is a completely different animal (man) than a team.

 

Yet again:

 

A team doesn't exist until it's officially formed. You still exist even if I don't know your name.

 

The name isn't the most important part.

 

How is a team "officially formed'? Is there a registration process? Does the team get a license?

 

C'mon. A team of the TT sort (like JLA or Avengers) is nothing more than a collection of individual heroes who periodically come together to fight a common menace, usually separate and apart from their many solo adventures. The team is formed when it first comes together and commences the group adventures. There are no "rules" for team formation. Nothing says that a team cannot pre-exist its team name, just as superheroes pre-exist their superhero names ala Animal Man, Ant-Man, and Kitty Pryde.

 

This semantic argument is very unconvincing.

 

Bull , most superhero teams are highly organized groups with headquarters, rosters, etc.

 

In the case of the Teen Titans, they officially formed when Robin set up the "group of junior crime-fighters." It's right there in the panel most recently posted by you.

 

 

[VintageComics]

 

Or perhaps BB 60 was at one time considered the first appearance, which is consistent with the panels posted throughout the thread, until Bob Overstreet shifted the market by erroneously mistaking the first appearance was ambiguously worded into the last sentence of the last panel of BB 54 in Volume 10 of his price guide published in the year of our lord 1980?

 

I'm not sure when that would be. After all, BB60 specifically cites to BB54 when it says the formation of the TT pre-dated BB60:

 

 

So it was established by DC the first time that the name Teen Titans was used that the group originated in BB54. Moreover, the first time the story from BB54 was reprinted, in 1972, in DC 100 Page Super Spectacular DC-21, it was labeled on the cover as being a "Teen Titans" story.

 

Hard to fault Overstreet for calling BB54 the first Teen Titans appearance when that's exactly what DC was doing back when the Guide was first written.

 

Of course, subsequent DC publications, such as the Archives and 50th Anniversay HC, have also confirmed BB54 was the first appearance and origin of the TT. Bob got it right. That's why every dealer, including you, list BB54 as a TT book.

 

Game. Set. Match.

 

Or...

 

Drops the mic and walks away.

[VintageComics]

 

Bull , most superhero teams are highly organized groups with headquarters, rosters, etc.

 

In the case of the Teen Titans, they officially formed when Robin set up the "group of junior crime-fighters." It's right there in the panel most recently posted by you.

 

 

So, you're agreeing that the Teen Titans 1st appeared in #54 then?

[HighStakesComics]

 

Bull , most superhero teams are highly organized groups with headquarters, rosters, etc.

 

In the case of the Teen Titans, they officially formed when Robin set up the "group of junior crime-fighters." It's right there in the panel most recently posted by you.

 

 

So, you're agreeing that the Teen Titans 1st appeared in #54 then?

 

Perhaps this is all a big misunderstanding. Please explain how this panel, which appears in issue #60, clearly identifies issue #54 as the first appearance?

[Lazyboy]

 

Bull , most superhero teams are highly organized groups with headquarters, rosters, etc.

 

In the case of the Teen Titans, they officially formed when Robin set up the "group of junior crime-fighters." It's right there in the panel most recently posted by you.

 

 

So, you're agreeing that the Teen Titans 1st appeared in #54 then?

How? Robin clearly says he set up the Teen Titans. This did not occur anywhere in BB 54, so...

[HighStakesComics]

 

Bull , most superhero teams are highly organized groups with headquarters, rosters, etc.

 

In the case of the Teen Titans, they officially formed when Robin set up the "group of junior crime-fighters." It's right there in the panel most recently posted by you.

 

 

So, you're agreeing that the Teen Titans 1st appeared in #54 then?

How? Robin clearly says he set up the Teen Titans. This did not occur anywhere in BB 54, so...

 

[Chillax23]

So if at the end of BB54 Robin had turned to Kid Flash and Aqualad and said hey this team-up worked well, we should form a team and call it the "Teen Titans" this would have been enough (in the mind of the BB60 supporters) to form the Teen Titans?

 

 

[HighStakesComics]

So if at the end of BB54 Robin had turned to Kid Flash and Aqualad and said hey this team-up worked well, we should form a team and call it the "Teen Titans" this would have been enough (in the mind of the BB60 supporters) to form the Teen Titans?

 

 

 

That's the way it's supposed to work, but if you have additional insight I'm willing to listen. I'd hope none of us are so closed minded that we couldn't be persuaded by an adequate argument.

[VintageComics]

 

Bull , most superhero teams are highly organized groups with headquarters, rosters, etc.

 

In the case of the Teen Titans, they officially formed when Robin set up the "group of junior crime-fighters." It's right there in the panel most recently posted by you.

 

 

So, you're agreeing that the Teen Titans 1st appeared in #54 then?

How? Robin clearly says he set up the Teen Titans. This did not occur anywhere in BB 54, so...

 

They appeared in person in #54. They just weren't name the Teen Titans. It's really simple to me...the editorial team had not yet thought of the name 'Teen Titans' and when they resurrected the team from issue #54 (the same people, just now named TT), added Wonder Girl and started a run.

 

What you guys are looking to do is make it fit into a specific box. Characters are not always revealed that way with a specific vision in mind. Often they evolve.

 

I'm happy to agree to disagree.

 

I think #54 is their 1st appearance even if they weren't named as such.