Black Panther official movie thread (11/3/17) 1 1

[Aweandlorder]

Do you guys remember the first time Batman (1989) came out and how all of us comic book people flocked to the theaters saying YESS this is FINALLY happening! Remember what it did to our industry? To our culture?

Do you remember when that happened with X-Men? Iron Man? Avengers? How us comic book people felt when our favorite books were elevated to a higher rank up there with huge blockbuster movies?

Do you remember when us comic book people were treated as nerds, mocked around for reading books intended for kids? Keeping our hobby a secret because it wasn't socially acceptable?

Now just switch the words comic book people with african americans, so you get an idea why they are proud and excited about Black Panther.

 

[Bosco685]

20 minutes ago, Aweandlorder said:

Now just switch the words comic book people with african americans, so you get an idea why they are proud and excited about Black Panther.

I wish you had made this point sooner.

[comix4fun]

1 hour ago, szavisca said:

Shrug ... all due respect ... you coulda put your fictional advanced hidden civilization the Middle East, China, or South America and yes ... same movie same thematic elements.  Obviously you’d get a different blending of that ancient culture and the modern world but it’d be pretty much the same.

And while killmonger was the most interesting character he was left very underdeveloped in the movie.  

I really hope this movie  wasn’t about finding your place in the world as a poor minority in Oakland ... because the answer apoarantly would be to lash out at the world, kill a buncha people, and take your birthright by force? No problem or grievance that punching someone harder than they punch you can’t fix.

I think the better message taken from the movie was if you’re born into privilege ... share with the world and make it a better place.  And this is a message not exclusive to any one culture... hence it didn’t matter that the blank panther was black.

 

Killmonger and T'Challa are intentionally set up as two sides of the same coin. Cousins from the same royal bloodline, one abandoned and growing up in strife and poverty and the other lavished with every luxury and exalted from the moment of his birth.

Killmonger became twisted and bitter and vengeful knowing that his father was murdered and knowing that this civilization that could seemingly do anything was out there and ignored him and ignored everyone like him who shared a common racial origination point. T'Challa grew up fearful of exposing Wakanda because of what may occur should the world discover and attempt to pillage what Wakanda has built over centuries and millennia. and thus refused to use their resources, knowledge and technology to make the world a better place and to help those that need it...even if they are just beyond their borders. 

Turns out they were BOTH wrong. Killmonger was too far gone and too twisted to learn from T'Challa, but T'Challa was mature enough to learn that, while violence against the world is not the answer, he was wrong to keep Wakanda isolated when all they they've accomplished could change the world for better and help the oppressed both on his continent and the others. 

The message carries much more weight and power being set where it is, coming from an American studio...with characters born of an American comic...because how this North America was built for its first 240 some years was on the back of, primarily, African slave labor. Killmonger's final words would carry no weight if not set against the backdrop of the centuries of oppression and bondage his ancestors suffered at the hands of the "colonizers". 

So you don't get the backdrop of history, experience, nor the scope of pain and suffering along with the shared history of slavery to freedom to the right to vote to segregation to the civil rights moverment to the present. While other ethnic groups have dealt with oppression and slavery and suffering over history...African slavery is the sin that America bears on its soul more than the mistreatment of any other racial or ethnic group in its history. 

So washing away or ignoring all the African elements and the subtext and undercurrent of the plot and not seeing the connection is really robbing you of a richer experience, because I assure you...it's there. 

Edited March 8, 2018 by comix4fun

[Prince Namor]

Having more lunch boxes with the Avengers on it, isn't changing the world. 

Why do Americans believe that having more 'choices' as a consumer is somehow empowering?

The world isn't a BETTER place because of these movies - Jiminy Freakin' Christmas - enjoy it for what it is - a work a FANTASY that in no way represents anything real in the world other than making the studios wealthy. 

I hate to continue to sound all '1984', but none of this done for the benefit of YOU or anyone other than the studio.

Its not to make the world better, or bring us together as a people or a nerd culture, it's only done for YOU as long as you continue to pay for it. 

When they start making movies that actually dissolve evil dictatorships or feed third world nations, I'll jump on that band wagon. 

Until then, I'll just enjoy it for what it really is: Escapist Fantasy. 

[comix4fun]

1 minute ago, Chuck Gower said:

Having more lunch boxes with the Avengers on it, isn't changing the world. 

Why do Americans believe that having more 'choices' as a consumer is somehow empowering?

The world isn't a BETTER place because of these movies - Jiminy Freakin' Christmas - enjoy it for what it is - a work a FANTASY that in no way represents anything real in the world other than making the studios wealthy. 

I hate to continue to sound all '1984', but none of this done for the benefit of YOU or anyone other than the studio.

Its not to make the world better, or bring us together as a people or a nerd culture, it's only done for YOU as long as you continue to pay for it. 

When they start making movies that actually dissolve evil dictatorships or feed third world nations, I'll jump on that band wagon. 

Until then, I'll just enjoy it for what it really is: Escapist Fantasy. 

Yeah, perhaps won't change the world by itself, but it can and will change Hollywood.

The success of this film, and the success of Wonder Woman,  will make starring vehicles for women far easier to get financed and distributed. 

That's how Hollywood works. Prove to them that it's bankable and the gates will open. 

Eventually, slowly, and over a long time....the things that we consume as entertainment seep into the collective consciousness and change perceptions, change relationships, and change stereotypes. 

When you see little girls not dressing up as Princesses and nothing else and instead as Jedi, and Avengers, and Amazon warriors and seeing that they aren't the damsel in distress but the hero, it eventually changes everything for them, in the way they see themselves, in the way the world does. 

But it's nothing that happens overnight, for sure. 

[Aweandlorder]

A quick reminder that they were all funny books until someone dared taking them seriously 

having a richer Marvel doesn't make me less appreciative of the house that Stan & Jack built 

[comix4fun]

10 minutes ago, Aweandlorder said:

A quick reminder that they were all funny books until someone dared taking them seriously 

having a richer Marvel doesn't make me less appreciative of the house that Stan & Jack built 

Looking back at those stories, especially the late 60's....Stan and Jack were fricken amazing, and brave, and spoke with a really deep voice hiding some great social commentary inside comics. 

People could enjoy them as light potty reading or really get into the social issues they were hitting almost every week. 

[Aweandlorder]

41 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

Looking back at those stories, especially the late 60's....Stan and Jack were fricken amazing, and brave, and spoke with a really deep voice hiding some great social commentary inside comics. 

People could enjoy them as light potty reading or really get into the social issues they were hitting almost every week. 

Yup. That's exactly how progressive they were with their creation. They set the bar high, then came Alan, and Frank, and Neil... 

I was reading an interview with Dck Giordano the other day (back from 87) and he was talking about how progressive (back then) creative control had gotten and how comic book creators were taken more seriously than they were before. He mentioned that works by Chaykin, Hernandez bros and other successful creators at the time led DC to market more intelligent properties and stories to a more mature audience.

Had this evolution not taken place we would still be sitting here reading books approved by the comic code about imaginary superheroes and funny animals 

[comix4fun]

52 minutes ago, szavisca said:

.....

You really took that ball and ran with it there.  Thank you for the patronizing history lesson. 

 

A patronizing history lesson would have been if I said it was clueless of you to say it would have been the same movie if black panther was Chinese, being that it ignored almost everything about subtext of the film, character, plot and theme, and left it at that  

But I didn’t. I tried to give you the perspective you don’t seem to have and obviously missed in watching the film. But I appreciate knowing that early colonial and American slave owners bear so little responsibility for owning other humans. That’s a weight off the collective conscience. 

[Prince Namor]

4 hours ago, comix4fun said:

Yeah, perhaps won't change the world by itself, but it can and will change Hollywood.

The success of this film, and the success of Wonder Woman,  will make starring vehicles for women far easier to get financed and distributed. 

That's how Hollywood works. Prove to them that it's bankable and the gates will open. 

Eventually, slowly, and over a long time....the things that we consume as entertainment seep into the collective consciousness and change perceptions, change relationships, and change stereotypes. 

When you see little girls not dressing up as Princesses and nothing else and instead as Jedi, and Avengers, and Amazon warriors and seeing that they aren't the damsel in distress but the hero, it eventually changes everything for them, in the way they see themselves, in the way the world does. 

But it's nothing that happens overnight, for sure. 

I can see that perspective, at least to some degree. It's a step in the right direction.

However, I think that someone who is appreciative of Denzel Washington in a movie, may still not 'trust' someone of a different skin color in the real world. 

Then again, a generation that grows up seeing heroes of all types from the time they're young, may not have that same ingrained fear an older generation has.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Chuck Gower

[Lonzilla]

Watching BP on my firestick since I don't really have an interest in paying to see it in the theatres. Well, I'm 45 minutes into it and here I am on here. God, this movie is boring as Hell

[Chaos_in_Canada]

Disney is going to push "Black Panther" for Oscars, and Christopher Nolan predicts Best Picture Nomination

http://www.indiewire.com/2018/03/christopher-nolan-black-panther-best-picture-oscars-1201937001/

[fantastic_four]

1 hour ago, Chaos_in_Canada said:

Disney is going to push "Black Panther" for Oscars, and Christopher Nolan predicts Best Picture Nomination

http://www.indiewire.com/2018/03/christopher-nolan-black-panther-best-picture-oscars-1201937001/

Maybe, but it doesn't have much shot at winning.  It's probably the most socially significant superhero film, but it doesn't have anywhere near the kind of significance of past barrier-breaking films like Moonlight, Selma, Malcolm X, Guess Who's Coming to Dinner, or To Kill a Mockingbird.  The praise on how groundbreaking Black Panther is only makes sense within the superhero genre, not outside of it within the larger landscape of films typically released in any given year.

[ianh]

8 hours ago, comix4fun said:

A patronizing history lesson would have been if I said it was clueless of you to say it would have been the same movie if black panther was Chinese, being that it ignored almost everything about subtext of the film, character, plot and theme, and left it at that  

But I didn’t. I tried to give you the perspective you don’t seem to have and obviously missed in watching the film. But I appreciate knowing that early colonial and American slave owners bear so little responsibility for owning other humans. That’s a weight off the collective conscience. 

I think they best thing to take form the movie is you see the difference in a kid growing up with parents and one that doesn't. That is the true privilege in the world, not color no matter what drivel the media tries to spew. You can take that storyline and apply it to any kid of any color so yes, Chinese would work as well. It had nothing to do with slavery and the line from Killmonger was ridiculous because his ancestors most likely weren't slaves. Wakanda was isolated and powerful and as Klaw said no one could find El Dorado because it was in Africa, not South America. It's people were protected.

 

[fantastic_four]

On 2/19/2018 at 6:58 PM, Rip said:

Armond White's review. For those prone to getting angry upon reading reviews, take a deep breath and a few shots of something strong. He has a long history of getting under peoples skin.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/02/black-panther-overhyped-race-fantasy/

Finally got a chance to read this.  Aside from relishing his role as contrarian, some critics clearly think they can create a better film than anyone else and spend their review describing what a movie should have been while dismissing what it is.  Armond is one of those guys and he REPEATEDLY does that in this review.  I've got no respect for that and am always left wondering why they don't just test their mettle and go make their own films already.  

[fantastic_four]

13 minutes ago, ianh said:

It had nothing to do with slavery and the line from Killmonger was ridiculous because his ancestors most likely weren't slaves.

His father is from Wakanda but his mother is American.  The film doesn't explicitly address it but the odds are he was descended from slaves.  Even if he wasn't I don't see how that lessens his potential incentive to empower Africa, to not want to be imprisoned by T'Challa, or to hate the past injustices of slavery.

Edited March 8, 2018 by fantastic_four

[ianh]

3 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

His father is from Wakanda but his mother is American.  The film doesn't explicitly address it but the odds are he was descended from slaves.

Slavery has been so rampant for thousands of years so if you go back far enough in anyone's history they have probably had an ancestor that was a slave at some point. The thought that most every black person in America is here because someone brought a relative over from Africa though is just not true as that would mean no black people have immigrated here since the 1860s. We recently did a DNA test on my family and found we have a small percentage of  North Africa and Nigerian in our family. Should I be mad because some ancestor I never knew might have been a slave?? That's ridiculous. His line was acted like he was going to be a slave which is not true. He broke the law, killed his own people (goes to show how much he cares about family I guess) and therefore would have been put in prison. Not the same thing at all. 

Honestly, this is the first Marvel movie I probably will not buy as I really don't have a huge desire to watch again. It was a good movie but did nothing to further the story line in anticipation for Avengers: Infinity War and I really think Marvel dropped the ball on that. There was no build up to get these new Black Panther fans excited about also seeing him in Avengers. 

[fantastic_four]

20 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

1 hour ago, Chaos_in_Canada said:

Disney is going to push "Black Panther" for Oscars, and Christopher Nolan predicts Best Picture Nomination

http://www.indiewire.com/2018/03/christopher-nolan-black-panther-best-picture-oscars-1201937001/

Maybe, but it doesn't have much shot at winning.  It's probably the most socially significant superhero film, but it doesn't have anywhere near the kind of significance of past barrier-breaking films like Moonlight, Selma, Malcolm X, Guess Who's Coming to Dinner, or To Kill a Mockingbird.  The praise on how groundbreaking Black Panther is only makes sense within the superhero genre, not outside of it within the larger landscape of films typically released in any given year.

I'd put the odds of nomination and winning in about the same category that "Get Out" was in.  Both were more genre films than art films, i.e. the primary purpose of both was mostly entertainment, not their respective social messages.  Peele was primarily making a horror movie but deeply embedded his social message, and the exact same intent applies to Coogler in making a superhero movie.

[fantastic_four]

1 minute ago, ianh said:

We recently did a DNA test on my family and found we have a small percentage of  North Africa and Nigerian in our family. Should I be mad because some ancestor I never knew might have been a slave??

If you like, sure.  I'm not aware of any African heritage in my ancestry from the past few millennia yet from your stated position I'm far more outraged by slavery than you appear to be, but that's probably because I grew up in a predominantly black neighborhood and about half of my friends growing up were black.  I'm sure if I had grown up entirely in the 'burbs I wouldn't care like most white people don't.

But as for Killmonger's motivation, it's far less about slavery and more about the fact that T'Chaka killed his father in terms of his anger.  His father's homeland's silence over the millennia while millions of Africans were sold into slavery are what drive him.  That's the realistic kind of motivation for a villain I wasn't expecting before seeing the film.

[paperheart]

34 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

I'd put the odds of nomination and winning in about the same category that "Get Out" was in.  Both were more genre films than art films, i.e. the primary purpose of both was mostly entertainment, not their respective social messages.  Peele was primarily making a horror movie but deeply embedded his social message, and the exact same intent applies to Coogler in making a superhero movie.

A little early in the year to be talking Oscar nominations but i'd say odds are in favor of a nomination w/ zero chance of winning.  Metacritic score would have put it exactly in the middle of last year's nominees.  The academy may look at ratings trend and realize they need a hugely successful movie nominated to bring in a larger audience.