Black Panther official movie thread (11/3/17) 1 1

[comix4fun]

1 hour ago, ianh said:

I think they best thing to take form the movie is you see the difference in a kid growing up with parents and one that doesn't. That is the true privilege in the world, not color no matter what drivel the media tries to spew. You can take that storyline and apply it to any kid of any color so yes, Chinese would work as well. It had nothing to do with slavery and the line from Killmonger was ridiculous because his ancestors most likely weren't slaves. Wakanda was isolated and powerful and as Klaw said no one could find El Dorado because it was in Africa, not South America. It's people were protected.

 

Lots of people grow up with out parents and don't plot global domination. 

I'm always amazed that people think cultural and historical backgrounds are interchangeable, as if there isn't already a set time line and set of facts for each and every background. That each had their own distinct struggles. That the Chinese history and experience is no different than for Africans, than it is for Western Euros, than it is for Eastern Euros, than it was in 1620, than it was in 1820, than it was in 1920.

Thinking that the fictional Wakandans placed in the center of the African continent, would not share even the slimmest of common threads with other Africans, that they don't come from a relatively common origination point and thus share a common history or are connected in some way is really missing the point.  That's not "media drivel" that's watching the movie on the screen and connecting the large boldface 24 point font dots they laid out. 

[Chaos_in_Canada]

BoxOfficeMojo opening Weekend Showdown

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/showdowns/chart/?id=openingweekendshowdown.htm

 

[comix4fun]

1 hour ago, fantastic_four said:

If you like, sure.  I'm not aware of any African heritage in my ancestry from the past few millennia yet from your stated position I'm far more outraged by slavery than you appear to be, but that's probably because I grew up in a predominantly black neighborhood and about half of my friends growing up were black.  I'm sure if I had grown up entirely in the 'burbs I wouldn't care like most white people don't.

But as for Killmonger's motivation, it's far less about slavery and more about the fact that T'Chaka killed his father in terms of his anger.  His father's homeland's silence over the millennia while millions of Africans were sold into slavery are what drive him.  That's the realistic kind of motivation for a villain I wasn't expecting before seeing the film.

And going back to slavery is just one aspect of what I think was used as a plot device to explain what angered him. As the character grew up in Oakland as an orphan he was surrounded by the after effects of how slowly this country has moved to treat people equally. 

Maybe some are too young to realize that although the slaves were freed roughly 153 or so years ago, it's only been since the 1940's that debt peonage has been removed, it wasn't until the 50's that everyone could attend the same schools, segregation on the state level wasn't banned until 1964, and states continued to create barriers to equal voting rights until 1965. In the 240+ year history of our country only the last 50+ years have allowed all citizens to be treated as truly equal...at least by the government. Don't forget recent events and the neo-rise of the white power movement. Given that handicap, there are generations of time before true equilibrium may be reached. So it doesn't matter much if Killmonger can point to a particular person in his family tree and see someone who was in slavery, there was plenty of injustice around his character, and the people around his character, to push the point across. 

Edited March 8, 2018 by comix4fun

[Aweandlorder]

Overall I'd disagree with anyone, black or white, who watched BP and could ONLY relate to it through Killmongers agenda and anger. 

This is kinda like watching, I don't know... escape from NY let's say, and thinking that this movie is messed up cause Snake Plisken the hero of the movie was anti government or anti American. 

Just because BP integrates a political component in its story doesn't mean it should be treated as propaganda. That's just preposterous  

[fantastic_four]

7 minutes ago, Aweandlorder said:

Just because BP integrates a political component in its story doesn't mean it should be treated as propaganda.

The moral of the film was explicitly laid out by T'Challa to Killmonger--if you use Wakanda's weapons to overthrow the Western world, you're no better than the West was when they colonized Africa.  Is that propaganda?  Seems like the same non-violent morality the role models we usually venerate have long held, which is why it's easy to compare T'Challa to MLK's mindset.

Edited March 8, 2018 by fantastic_four

[comix4fun]

Just now, Aweandlorder said:

Overall I'd disagree with anyone, black or white, who watched BP and could ONLY relate to it through Killmongers agenda and anger. 

This is kinda like watching, I don't know... escape from NY let's say, and thinking that this movie is messed up cause Snake Plisken the hero of the movie was anti government or anti American. 

Just because BP integrates a political component in its story doesn't mean it should be treated as propaganda. That's just preposterous  

Agreed. I think Killmonger was a catalyst for T'Challa to realize that being isolated and putting "Wakanda First" while there are people nearby (refugees) and far (the sick and starving globally) that could be helped by their knowledge and tech.

Killmonger, thematically, is set up as a plot device to show what can go wrong with power and anger as the two primary motivators, and that raw violence and oppression is not an answer to past violence and oppression. It's just more of the same. They made Killmonger a much more nuanced villain than in most standard superhero fare, so I give them credit for that. They also slapped him down as the ethically, morally, flawed character who would become the monster he wanted to destroy. 

So I can't imagine anyone watching BP and relating to it only from his perspective. 

 

[Aweandlorder]

2 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

The moral of the film was explicitly laid out by T'Challa to Killmonger--if you use Wakanda's weapons to overthrow the Western world, you're no better than they were when they colonized Africa.  Is that propaganda?  Seems like the same non-violent morality the role models we usually venerate have long held.

Funny. I thought I just watched a kickass superhero movie, a great adaptation, beautiful story, killer acting. No hidden political message there for me sorry to disappoint 

at least not overshadowing the above treats

[fantastic_four]

2 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

Agreed. I think Killmonger was a catalyst for T'Challa to realize that being isolated and putting "Wakanda First" while there are people nearby (refugees) and far (the sick and starving globally) that could be helped by their knowledge and tech.

Killmonger, thematically, is set up as a plot device to show what can go wrong with power and anger as the two primary motivators, and that raw violence and oppression is not an answer to past violence and oppression. It's just more of the same. They made Killmonger a much more nuanced villain than in most standard superhero fare, so I give them credit for that. They also slapped him down as the ethically, morally, flawed character who would become the monster he wanted to destroy. 

So I can't imagine anyone watching BP and relating to it only from his perspective. 

While the film ended with T'Challa reaching out to the world, it's far easier to identify with Killmonger's mindset than T'Challa's if you're carrying a grudge against the West.  Retribution is far quicker and easier than the approach T'Challa preferred.

I've always assumed more black Americans identify viscerally with Malcolm X than Martin Luther King.  Similarly, Killmonger's mindset seems easier to grasp than T'Challa's far slower approach.  Hopefully I'm being overly pessimistic here.

[fantastic_four]

5 minutes ago, Aweandlorder said:

12 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

The moral of the film was explicitly laid out by T'Challa to Killmonger--if you use Wakanda's weapons to overthrow the Western world, you're no better than they were when they colonized Africa.  Is that propaganda?  Seems like the same non-violent morality the role models we usually venerate have long held.

Funny. I thought I just watched a kickass superhero movie, a great adaptation, beautiful story, killer acting. No hidden political message there for me sorry to disappoint 

at least not overshadowing the above treats

Yes, it's both.  Which really floored me in that moment that Killmonger challenged for the throne, because I thought beforehand I'd just be seeing a superhero movie.

[Aweandlorder]

5 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

Agreed. I think Killmonger was a catalyst for T'Challa to realize that being isolated and putting "Wakanda First" while there are people nearby (refugees) and far (the sick and starving globally) that could be helped by their knowledge and tech.

Killmonger, thematically, is set up as a plot device to show what can go wrong with power and anger as the two primary motivators, and that raw violence and oppression is not an answer to past violence and oppression. It's just more of the same. They made Killmonger a much more nuanced villain than in most standard superhero fare, so I give them credit for that. They also slapped him down as the ethically, morally, flawed character who would become the monster he wanted to destroy. 

So I can't imagine anyone watching BP and relating to it only from his perspective. 

 

Absolutely. 

And again, there are many movies that have some sort of "hot topics" worth discussing. I just don't see BP being a messenger. 

Id be equally disappointed from any white person who thinks this movie is about race equality as I would from any black personal. 

Remember that this was actually based on comic book characters and stories? Where was that discussion when the books saw print?

[comix4fun]

Just now, fantastic_four said:

While the film ended with T'Challa reaching out to the world, it's far easier to identify with Killmonger's mindset than T'Challa's if you're carrying a grudge against the West.  Retribution is far quicker and easier than the approach T'Challa preferred.

I've always assumed more black Americans identify viscerally with Malcolm X than Martin Luther King.  Similarly, Killmonger's mindset seems easier to grasp than T'Challa's far slower approach.  Hopefully I'm being overly pessimistic here.

And as uplifting as that ending was, I couldn't help but think that (as small as Wakanda is) the first thing that would happen is every country on the planet trying to steal their tech, or infiltrate, or outright invade and take it. 

As mature and responsible as T'Challa's choice was the rest of us know what the world is like.  Black Panther 2 could carry the same plot as the Illiad. 

[Aweandlorder]

3 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

Yes, it's both.  Which really floored me in that moment that Killmonger challenged for the throne, because I thought beforehand I'd just be seeing a superhero movie.

That could also be attributed to great acting on his part 

[fantastic_four]

1 minute ago, comix4fun said:

And as uplifting as that ending was, I couldn't help but think that (as small as Wakanda is) the first thing that would happen is every country on the planet trying to steal their tech, or infiltrate, or outright invade and take it. 

As mature and responsible as T'Challa's choice was the rest of us know what the world is like.  Black Panther 2 could carry the same plot as the Illiad. 

Yep.  I wish they had ended it with a two-pronged approach--step one, to use Wakanda technology to bring Africa into the 21st century, step two to share that technology with the rest of the world.

[fantastic_four]

1 minute ago, Aweandlorder said:

6 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

Yes, it's both.  Which really floored me in that moment that Killmonger challenged for the throne, because I thought beforehand I'd just be seeing a superhero movie.

That could also be attributed to great acting on his part 

He delivered it very well and every scene he was in dominated everyone else on-screen, but the strength in his words comes from the writing.  I attribute Killmonger's appeal far more to Coogler than Michael B. Jordan.

[Ken Aldred]

48 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

And as uplifting as that ending was, I couldn't help but think that (as small as Wakanda is) the first thing that would happen is every country on the planet trying to steal their tech, or infiltrate, or outright invade and take it. 

As mature and responsible as T'Challa's choice was the rest of us know what the world is like.  Black Panther 2 could carry the same plot as the Illiad. 

I'm that cynical.  Once the rest of the world is provided with the opportunity to use Wakandan tech and Vibranium, it'll quickly be weaponised.  Regardless of ethnicity, too many angry, frustrated, radicalised, self-serving, power-obsessed people out there for T'Challa's final decision to be anything but naive : from my perspective, anyway. 

[fantastic_four]

8 minutes ago, Ken Aldred said:

I'm that cynical.  Once the rest of the world is provided with the opportunity to use Wakandan tech and Vibranium, it'll quickly be weaponised.  Regardless of ethnicity, too many angry, frustrated, radicalised, self-serving, power-obsessed people out there for T'Challa's final decision to be anything but naive : from my perspective, anyway. 

I tend to agree, but they weren't all that specific about whether or not he would give ANY vibranium away.  You'd assume they'd have to give some away for the tech to work, but he may limit it to amounts too small to be weaponized.  Sounds like a VERY deep rabbit hole that I'd avoid if it were my screenplay in the same way they did end up avoiding it, by not addressing it at all.

Edited March 8, 2018 by fantastic_four

[Bosco685]

Wow!!

[paperheart]

'Civil War' Scribe Mark Millar Predicts 'Black Panther' Will Make More Than 'Avengers: Infinity War'

[DiamondCityComics]

31 minutes ago, paperheart said:

'Civil War' Scribe Mark Millar Predicts 'Black Panther' Will Make More Than 'Avengers: Infinity War'

He feels it in his Bones

[paperheart]

16 minutes ago, DiamondCityComics said:

He feels it in his Bones

or after smoking one