what do you think about cream off white pages 0

[Phicks]

Is there a link where one can see the difference between what CGC defines as white, off white, cream, tan, etc?

[mysterio]

Is there a link where one can see the difference between what CGC defines as white, off white, cream, tan, etc?

 

No. Nor have they ever published their grading standards.

[conditionfreak]

. Depends on the issue. And the price.

 

If you are waiting for a Showcase #22 with white pages. You might be waiting quite awhile.

 

Of course I want a super model in my bed. But I'll settle for the girl next door, if she is nice looking and reasonable.

 

And besides. My definition of cream colored, is often not CGC's definition of cream colored. They are both opinions. Not facts or laws of nature.

 

And whatever happened to "tan/off white"? Is that different than "cream/off white"?

[Hepcat]

What do you think about cream off white pages?

 

I prefer them to tan.

 

[Bomber-Bob]

I spit on SA CR/OW books, I will not go near them. Even OW is a stretch for me. Before CGC existed I only bought books with nice pages. To me, it's the best indicator of preservation. It is also one of the few things that cannot be manipulated or manufactured.

 

Except that CGC page colour notation is not every consistent. So I put very little weight on it.

 

 

Why can't the same argument be applied to the grade ? The difference between a 9.2 and 9.4 may simply be the day of the week so why pay more for the 9.4 ?

[Jordysnordy]

. Depends on the issue. And the price.

 

If you are waiting for a Showcase #22 with white pages. You might be waiting quite awhile.

 

Of course I want a super model in my bed. But I'll settle for the girl next door, if she is nice looking and reasonable.

 

And besides. My definition of cream colored, is often not CGC's definition of cream colored. They are both opinions. Not facts or laws of nature.

 

And whatever happened to "tan/off white"? Is that different than "cream/off white"?

 

Of course I want a super model in my bed. But I'll settle for the girl next door, if she is nice looking and reasonable.

 

[conditionfreak]

Is there a link where one can see the difference between what CGC defines as white, off white, cream, tan, etc?

 

Don't know if you aware of this. But there are "sample" cards out there. That show the different variations. You can put the card next to the pages of a book, and compare the pages to the various shades on the card.

 

But those cards are not from CGC. Their are from Overstreet.

 

Off white sure looks cream to me (on these cards).

 

https://www.gemstonepub.com/p/88163/owl-card

Edited November 6, 2014 by conditionfreak

[Jaydogrules]

I spit on SA CR/OW books, I will not go near them. Even OW is a stretch for me. Before CGC existed I only bought books with nice pages. To me, it's the best indicator of preservation. It is also one of the few things that cannot be manipulated or manufactured.

 

Except that CGC page colour notation is not every consistent. So I put very little weight on it.

 

 

Why can't the same argument be applied to the grade ? The difference between a 9.2 and 9.4 may simply be the day of the week so why pay more for the 9.4 ?

 

Problem is, I have just very recently spoken with the powers that be at CGC and they were very clear that the "PQ" on the label is merely a snapshot in time. It can and has been known to degrade in the slab, even if stored in the most ideal conditions. Obviously if a slab is abused, the structural grade can deteriorate as well, but that can usually be detected visually through the slab. However the "PQ" on the label may or may not even be what you are getting by the time you are buying the slab. So there really is no reason to pay more or less for it one way or another, unless the book has "slightly brittle" or "brittle" pages.

 

-J.

[VintageComics]

I spit on SA CR/OW books, I will not go near them. Even OW is a stretch for me. Before CGC existed I only bought books with nice pages. To me, it's the best indicator of preservation. It is also one of the few things that cannot be manipulated or manufactured.

 

Except that CGC page colour notation is not every consistent. So I put very little weight on it.

 

 

Why can't the same argument be applied to the grade ? The difference between a 9.2 and 9.4 may simply be the day of the week so why pay more for the 9.4 ?

 

Because paper quality is generally more subjective than grade..

 

Paper quality is a subtle graduation in colour while most grade related defects are objective and quantifiable. Grade does change, but not nearly as much as PQ in my opinion.

 

 

 

 

[Phicks]

. Depends on the issue. And the price.

 

If you are waiting for a Showcase #22 with white pages. You might be waiting quite awhile.

 

Of course I want a super model in my bed. But I'll settle for the girl next door, if she is nice looking and reasonable.

 

And besides. My definition of cream colored, is often not CGC's definition of cream colored. They are both opinions. Not facts or laws of nature.

 

And whatever happened to "tan/off white"? Is that different than "cream/off white"?

 

Of course I want a super model in my bed. But I'll settle for the girl next door, if she is nice looking and reasonable.

 

 

Do you prefer the girl next door to be white, off white, or tan?

[conditionfreak]

. Depends on the issue. And the price.

 

If you are waiting for a Showcase #22 with white pages. You might be waiting quite awhile.

 

Of course I want a super model in my bed. But I'll settle for the girl next door, if she is nice looking and reasonable.

 

And besides. My definition of cream colored, is often not CGC's definition of cream colored. They are both opinions. Not facts or laws of nature.

 

And whatever happened to "tan/off white"? Is that different than "cream/off white"?

 

Of course I want a super model in my bed. But I'll settle for the girl next door, if she is nice looking and reasonable.

 

 

Do you prefer the girl next door to be white, off white, or tan?

 

I prefer tan. But if the presentation is good. I'll take any of the above. I won't take brittle though. I don't want to hurt anyone.

[namisgr]

I spit on SA CR/OW books, I will not go near them. Even OW is a stretch for me. Before CGC existed I only bought books with nice pages. To me, it's the best indicator of preservation. It is also one of the few things that cannot be manipulated or manufactured.

 

Except that CGC page colour notation is not every consistent. So I put very little weight on it.

 

 

Why can't the same argument be applied to the grade ? The difference between a 9.2 and 9.4 may simply be the day of the week so why pay more for the 9.4 ?

 

Because paper quality is generally more subjective than grade..

 

Paper quality is a subtle graduation in colour while most grade related defects are objective and quantifiable. Grade does change, but not nearly as much as PQ in my opinion.

 

 

So when you submit a batch of books for grading, you're finding that your predicted page quality designations are off from what CGC assigns most of the time?

 

My experience has been different. While I agree with you that there's a bit less wobble with structural grading, I don't think it's markedly different predicting page quality grades from structural grades. Books with snowy white pages are especially easy to nail.

[VintageComics]

[

So when you submit a batch of books for grading, you're finding that your predicted page quality designations are off from what CGC assigns most of the time?

 

I never assess page quality on a book that I am submitting for grading because unless it's brittle or Tan (and I've rarely submitted those) the books are getting graded regardless. I simply assess the grade of the book.

 

My experience has been different. While I agree with you that there's a bit less wobble with structural grading, I don't think it's markedly different predicting page quality grades from structural grades. Books with snowy white pages are especially easy to nail.

 

White pages are easy to nail. It's when the spectrum is no longer perfectly white that it becomes more difficult. It's all shades of grey after that.

[Straw-Man]

i try to stay o/w or better for silver. i have 2 or 3 c/ow books, but unlike gold where i don't consider it a problem at all [of course the whiter the better, but it's not a demerit for me at all in gold], i do shy away from it in s.a. books.

[namisgr]

[

So when you submit a batch of books for grading, you're finding that your predicted page quality designations are off from what CGC assigns most of the time?

 

I never assess page quality on a book that I am submitting for grading because unless it's brittle or Tan (and I've rarely submitted those) the books are getting graded regardless. I simply assess the grade of the book.

 

I think you'd find that, after the experience gained from a few submissions, you'd be able to predict exactly the page quality designation correctly at least 2/3 of the time. Frankly, with the many genres of comics you submit over the wide range of structural grades, I bet your hit rate on the numerical grades isn't going to be much better than that.

 

Some posters make it sound as though page quality grading is random, but experience shows that it's far from that.

[zosocane]

Here is a copy-and-paste of one of my posts from a thread discussing PQ from earlier this year ...

 

"Here are my page quality ("PQ") preferences when buying, and how I perceive pricing premiums or discounts, as the case may be, as it relates to PQ. Ultimately, the era of the book is key because PQ tends to worsen with age.

 

For a GA book, I go C/OW or higher. W commands a premium (at least 10%, higher on tougher books), while C/OW pages don't lessen demand much (if at all) because you're dealing with paper than in many cases is 70 years old and books that (depending on the book) can be hard to find, particularly in higher grades. So the 70-year-old paper is more special if it's W, but because it's so old I don't punish the book just because it's C/OW.

 

For SA, I will go OW or higher, but will do C/OW on early SA DCs. I don't think there is much pricing difference between C/OW, OW, and even OW/W. I think pricing is generally the same for the book in those three PQ categories, and it is hard to add a PQ premium for the OW/W category. I would say that you might lose the interest of some potential buyers for a C/OW SA book because a picky buyer knows that SA books generally aren't hard to find. However, W should command a premium on pricing -- what that premium is expressed as a percentage, very hard to say, maybe another 5% to 10% (or 15%, in the case of a key)?

 

For BA, I want W but won't accept less than OW/W. I think C/OW in the BA should cause some price discount, while PQ from OW to OW/W to even W should not affect pricing (and, indeed, such PQ should be expected). That's because now we're looking at 35- to 40-year old paper that during most of those years should have been protected in a plastic bag, well-stored, etc.

 

For CA, I insist on W and won't pay a penny more for it. This is 25- to 30-year old paper, incredibly plentiful supply, and the book should have almost always been bagged and well-stored, etc. Not to mention that post-1980 many publishers started printing on higher quality paper (remember Baxter paper?) and moved away from pulp, which is more susceptible to deterioration."

[rjpb]

My last submission was about a year ago - 4 PCH books. They all had varying page quality to my eyes, ranging from cream to ow/w. All four came back ow/w. After that I stopped paying attention to CGC's page quality unless it included tan or brittle somewhere in the description.

[Bomber-Bob]

 

I have just very recently spoken with the powers that be at CGC and they were very clear that the "PQ" on the label is merely a snapshot in time. It can and has been known to degrade in the slab, even if stored in the most ideal conditions. Obviously if a slab is abused, the structural grade can deteriorate as well, but that can usually be detected visually through the slab. However the "PQ" on the label may or may not even be what you are getting by the time you are buying the slab. So there really is no reason to pay more or less for it one way or another, unless the book has "slightly brittle" or "brittle" pages.

 

-J.

 

I concur that the PQ is a snapshot in time and may degrade in the slab. I'll tell you another thing that may degrade in the slab, the press. Creases that were pressed out,especially on the spine, can return. So you may buy a 9.4, put it away and never touch it, and it degrades into an 8.5 . This especially happens when the book is not real snug in the well. Not fun. I'll take the integrity of a White Page designation over a manufactured grade anytime. Unpressed, original books with White Pages will someday be rewarded by the marketplace.

 

[bronze johnny]

 

I have just very recently spoken with the powers that be at CGC and they were very clear that the "PQ" on the label is merely a snapshot in time. It can and has been known to degrade in the slab, even if stored in the most ideal conditions. Obviously if a slab is abused, the structural grade can deteriorate as well, but that can usually be detected visually through the slab. However the "PQ" on the label may or may not even be what you are getting by the time you are buying the slab. So there really is no reason to pay more or less for it one way or another, unless the book has "slightly brittle" or "brittle" pages.

 

-J.

 

I concur that the PQ is a snapshot in time and may degrade in the slab. I'll tell you another thing that may degrade in the slab, the press. Creases that were pressed out,especially on the spine, can return. So you may buy a 9.4, put it away and never touch it, and it degrades into an 8.5 . This especially happens when the book is not real snug in the well. Not fun. I'll take the integrity of a White Page designation over a manufactured grade anytime. Unpressed, original books with White Pages will someday be rewarded by the marketplace.

 

- I'm confused- the whole point of CGC's adding the deacidification paper is to prevent further decay in pq. Now I'm hearing that such a preventative measure may not fare well in a reasonably stable environment?

 

- Bob, the problem we have is that pressed books, even those with white pq, are omnipresent. I'm not happy with this but there's no way to stop this. However, there's a simple but expensive way to fix this- open the slab and then carefully open the book, page by page- the simple process of "press reversal." Now let's wait and see if a "de-Pressing Service" shows up soon?

[Bomber-Bob]

- Bob, the problem we have is that pressed books, even those with white pq, are omnipresent. I'm not happy with this but there's no way to stop this. However, there's a simple but expensive way to fix this- open the slab and then carefully open the book, page by page- the simple process of "press reversal." Now let's wait and see if a "de-Pressing Service" shows up soon?

 

Actually I have heard of a process called plumping. While I have no idea about the actual mechanics, the idea is to plump up a spine that has that pancake look from an aggressive press. It's all smoke and mirrors. I try to buy organic and stay away from the processed stuff.

Edited November 7, 2014 by bomber-bob