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Spider-Gwen - Jason Latour and Robbie Rodriguez
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2,566 posts in this topic

so with the print run there's about 8.5k 1:25 variants in the wild.

 

That isn't even close to correct. That print is including the x retailer variants at 3000/1500 (plus whatever Midtown orders on those variants/10k/5k?) per store. Subtract those out and you have a general idea of the 1:25/1:100 variants. Furthermore, if a shop orders 74 copies, then they get 2 Ankas and 0 Hughes. The print run might be 100k in real orders, but only 500 or so Hughes and 3000 Ankas because of the way each shop orders. It isn't like Marvel just prints that amount because of the print run. I think people forget that a lot.

 

This is incorrect.

 

The variants' print run is indeed based on the print run of the main book. So 2000 for the Hughes is not out of the ballpark, as for every smaller mom and pop shop that didn't order enough to get even one, there are just as many big guys that order 200++ copies or more to get multiple variant copies. A book with a 200,000++ print run will have waaaaaaay more than 500 copies of a 1:100 variant out there, come on. There are what, 100+ on ebay alone right now? doh!

 

And at the end of the day, the print run of the variant is only part of what affects value. Scarcity on the market is the other. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

I am going to have to disagree with you on this. Let me break it down for you:

 

The stated print run was 200k copies or whatever. This figure INCLUDES the shop variants. Do you think Marvel sold 1million copies of Star Wars #1? That included the 100+ variants. That is where these numbers come from these days and that is part of the reason Marvel does them. They love to get the printing numbers higher and they also love to make money. Anyways, I think we had about 20 different retail variants that you have to subtract from that 200k number to get to the actual print run. Then you have to kind of guess what the shops would order. I know I have about 11 LCS/Diamond accounts within 30 miles of my house and I know of one store that would be getting a Hughes variant. I also don't think it is very out of the question that 100 out of 500 or whatever the print run may be of the Hughes Variant are up on Ebay the very day it is released. I am not sure why you think this isn't possible? For the record I am not saying the print run is 500..I was just showing examples. I would imagine the actual run on this variant is between 700-1300, but probably on the lower side of that figure and definitely not near 2000.

 

You are free to disagree, you are still however, incorrect. There will be "at least" 2000 copies of the Hughes out there based on the print run. That's actually how variants work. By variant standards, it is not "rare", and if you really think 20+% of all copies of the Hughes variant in the world are up on ebay alone for sale right now, you may want to re-think the long term viability/popularity of this character and that book. lol None of the what if-Gwen stuff is "rare". Not even the Land variant of EoSV #2. This stuff is and will be slabbed and flipped left and right until the carcass is completely bled dry. (thumbs u

 

-J.

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so with the print run there's about 8.5k 1:25 variants in the wild.

 

That isn't even close to correct. That print is including the x retailer variants at 3000/1500 (plus whatever Midtown orders on those variants/10k/5k?) per store. Subtract those out and you have a general idea of the 1:25/1:100 variants. Furthermore, if a shop orders 74 copies, then they get 2 Ankas and 0 Hughes. The print run might be 100k in real orders, but only 500 or so Hughes and 3000 Ankas because of the way each shop orders. It isn't like Marvel just prints that amount because of the print run. I think people forget that a lot.

 

This is incorrect.

 

The variants' print run is indeed based on the print run of the main book. So 2000 for the Hughes is not out of the ballpark, as for every smaller mom and pop shop that didn't order enough to get even one, there are just as many big guys that order 200++ copies or more to get multiple variant copies. A book with a 200,000++ print run will have waaaaaaay more than 500 copies of a 1:100 variant out there, come on. There are what, 100+ on ebay alone right now? doh!

 

And at the end of the day, the print run of the variant is only part of what affects value. Scarcity on the market is the other. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

I am going to have to disagree with you on this. Let me break it down for you:

 

The stated print run was 200k copies or whatever. This figure INCLUDES the shop variants. Do you think Marvel sold 1million copies of Star Wars #1? That included the 100+ variants. That is where these numbers come from these days and that is part of the reason Marvel does them. They love to get the printing numbers higher and they also love to make money. Anyways, I think we had about 20 different retail variants that you have to subtract from that 200k number to get to the actual print run. Then you have to kind of guess what the shops would order. I know I have about 11 LCS/Diamond accounts within 30 miles of my house and I know of one store that would be getting a Hughes variant. I also don't think it is very out of the question that 100 out of 500 or whatever the print run may be of the Hughes Variant are up on Ebay the very day it is released. I am not sure why you think this isn't possible? For the record I am not saying the print run is 500..I was just showing examples. I would imagine the actual run on this variant is between 700-1300, but probably on the lower side of that figure and definitely not near 2000.

 

You are free to disagree, you are still however, incorrect. There will be "at least" 2000 copies of the Hughes out there based on the print run. That's actually how variants work. By variant standards, it is not "rare", and if you really think 20+% of all copies of the Hughes variant in the world are up on ebay alone for sale right now, you may want to re-think the long term viability/popularity of this character and that book. lol None of the what if-Gwen stuff is "rare". Not even the Land variant of EoSV #2. This stuff is and will be slabbed and flipped left and right until the carcass is completely bled dry. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

Besides the gaping hole in your math. ( the bulk of the shops that ordered would have never made the 200 threshold number, yet their orders still count towards the final print number )

 

Rarity isn't the only question here.

 

It's demand & what the market will absorb.

The market currently demands Spider-Gwen & Adam Hughes.

Winner Winner, cash for dinner.

 

I no longer have a horse in the game.

My copies are out the door...

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so with the print run there's about 8.5k 1:25 variants in the wild.

 

That isn't even close to correct. That print is including the x retailer variants at 3000/1500 (plus whatever Midtown orders on those variants/10k/5k?) per store. Subtract those out and you have a general idea of the 1:25/1:100 variants. Furthermore, if a shop orders 74 copies, then they get 2 Ankas and 0 Hughes. The print run might be 100k in real orders, but only 500 or so Hughes and 3000 Ankas because of the way each shop orders. It isn't like Marvel just prints that amount because of the print run. I think people forget that a lot.

 

This is incorrect.

 

The variants' print run is indeed based on the print run of the main book. So 2000 for the Hughes is not out of the ballpark, as for every smaller mom and pop shop that didn't order enough to get even one, there are just as many big guys that order 200++ copies or more to get multiple variant copies. A book with a 200,000++ print run will have waaaaaaay more than 500 copies of a 1:100 variant out there, come on. There are what, 100+ on ebay alone right now? doh!

 

And at the end of the day, the print run of the variant is only part of what affects value. Scarcity on the market is the other. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

I am going to have to disagree with you on this. Let me break it down for you:

 

The stated print run was 200k copies or whatever. This figure INCLUDES the shop variants. Do you think Marvel sold 1million copies of Star Wars #1? That included the 100+ variants. That is where these numbers come from these days and that is part of the reason Marvel does them. They love to get the printing numbers higher and they also love to make money. Anyways, I think we had about 20 different retail variants that you have to subtract from that 200k number to get to the actual print run. Then you have to kind of guess what the shops would order. I know I have about 11 LCS/Diamond accounts within 30 miles of my house and I know of one store that would be getting a Hughes variant. I also don't think it is very out of the question that 100 out of 500 or whatever the print run may be of the Hughes Variant are up on Ebay the very day it is released. I am not sure why you think this isn't possible? For the record I am not saying the print run is 500..I was just showing examples. I would imagine the actual run on this variant is between 700-1300, but probably on the lower side of that figure and definitely not near 2000.

 

You are free to disagree, you are still however, incorrect. There will be "at least" 2000 copies of the Hughes out there based on the print run. That's actually how variants work. By variant standards, it is not "rare", and if you really think 20+% of all copies of the Hughes variant in the world are up on ebay alone for sale right now, you may want to re-think the long term viability/popularity of this character and that book. lol None of the what if-Gwen stuff is "rare". Not even the Land variant of EoSV #2. This stuff is and will be slabbed and flipped left and right until the carcass is completely bled dry. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

Besides the gaping hole in your math. ( the bulk of the shops that ordered would have never made the 200 threshold number, yet their orders still count towards the final print number )

 

Rarity isn't the only question here.

 

It's demand & what the market will absorb.

The market currently demands Spider-Gwen & Adam Hughes.

Winner Winner, cash for dinner.

 

I no longer have a horse in the game.

My copies are out the door...

 

Besides the gaping hole in your facts (it's a 1:100, not a 1:200), as I said earlier, for every smaller shop that didn't order enough for one, the medium and larger shops would have ordered more than enough to get several. But I would wager that, with the extreme hype surrounding this book, even many smaller shops ordered enough. And you're right, "rarity" isn't the only equation. Demand also is. So since it isn't rare, one will have to hope there is enough "demand" to prop up the price of a book where hundred(s) are immediately available for sale on one venue alone. hm

 

-J.

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For a high profile Marvel book, 2,000 is a tiny print run.

Tiny.

 

Way more demand than supply right now.

 

"Right now" being the the key words, of course.

 

I can see Gwen going out of vogue.

Cannot see a day when Adam Hughes covers are not in demand though..

 

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For a high profile Marvel book, 2,000 is a tiny print run.

Tiny.

 

Way more demand than supply right now.

 

"Right now" being the the key words, of course.

 

I can see Gwen going out of vogue.

Cannot see a day when Adam Hughes covers are not in demand though..

 

Agreed.

Always going to be people collecting Hughes covers.

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What exactly is going on in the Hughes 1:100 cover?

 

Looks like Spider-Gwen is holding a drawing of herself??? I really wish Hughes had just drawn an unmasked Spider-Gwen.

 

Disclaimer: Not a hater, I have 2 copies, but probably won't sit on them after they get slabbed.

 

594B0EB3-7084-4E83-A866-B69DDCAC858B.jpg

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so with the print run there's about 8.5k 1:25 variants in the wild.

 

That isn't even close to correct. That print is including the x retailer variants at 3000/1500 (plus whatever Midtown orders on those variants/10k/5k?) per store. Subtract those out and you have a general idea of the 1:25/1:100 variants. Furthermore, if a shop orders 74 copies, then they get 2 Ankas and 0 Hughes. The print run might be 100k in real orders, but only 500 or so Hughes and 3000 Ankas because of the way each shop orders. It isn't like Marvel just prints that amount because of the print run. I think people forget that a lot.

 

This is incorrect.

 

The variants' print run is indeed based on the print run of the main book. So 2000 for the Hughes is not out of the ballpark, as for every smaller mom and pop shop that didn't order enough to get even one, there are just as many big guys that order 200++ copies or more to get multiple variant copies. A book with a 200,000++ print run will have waaaaaaay more than 500 copies of a 1:100 variant out there, come on. There are what, 100+ on ebay alone right now? doh!

 

And at the end of the day, the print run of the variant is only part of what affects value. Scarcity on the market is the other. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

I am going to have to disagree with you on this. Let me break it down for you:

 

The stated print run was 200k copies or whatever. This figure INCLUDES the shop variants. Do you think Marvel sold 1million copies of Star Wars #1? That included the 100+ variants. That is where these numbers come from these days and that is part of the reason Marvel does them. They love to get the printing numbers higher and they also love to make money. Anyways, I think we had about 20 different retail variants that you have to subtract from that 200k number to get to the actual print run. Then you have to kind of guess what the shops would order. I know I have about 11 LCS/Diamond accounts within 30 miles of my house and I know of one store that would be getting a Hughes variant. I also don't think it is very out of the question that 100 out of 500 or whatever the print run may be of the Hughes Variant are up on Ebay the very day it is released. I am not sure why you think this isn't possible? For the record I am not saying the print run is 500..I was just showing examples. I would imagine the actual run on this variant is between 700-1300, but probably on the lower side of that figure and definitely not near 2000.

 

You are free to disagree, you are still however, incorrect. There will be "at least" 2000 copies of the Hughes out there based on the print run. That's actually how variants work. By variant standards, it is not "rare", and if you really think 20+% of all copies of the Hughes variant in the world are up on ebay alone for sale right now, you may want to re-think the long term viability/popularity of this character and that book. lol None of the what if-Gwen stuff is "rare". Not even the Land variant of EoSV #2. This stuff is and will be slabbed and flipped left and right until the carcass is completely bled dry. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

I am not sure if you are not listening or just do not understand. I will break it down one last time to see if you can grasp it. The stated print run was around 200k books. You have to subtract out the 20 shops (roughly) that ordered the variants from that 200k because those books don't count towards the incentives. They had to order at least 3k/1500 on those variants in order to do that and some shops did 3 variants (conquest) and some shops may have ordered more than 3k/1500 (Midtown probably does closer to 10k/5k). That leaves you with around 100k-125k regular covers. Of those numbers many, many of those books are going to shops that are not ordering enough to get the 100 book incentive (and that also doesn't include the Blanks as per JJ). Those copies all come right off of the top and will not be counted. This leaves whatever is left and in what groups of 100 they ordered. This would leave the print run around 700-1250 or so and probably on the lower end (as I stated earlier). The book came out yesterday and you have a hard time understanding why 20% of the potential print run would be on ebay now? That doesn't make any sense to me. I bet 75% of the Phantom print run was on ebay a few weeks ago. Were you able to grasp that part? I am fine with you disagreeing with me, but you just keep stating the print run is based on the initial print run and your facts and understanding of how this works are clearly not accurate. If you have any actual facts feel free to insert them wherever.

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so with the print run there's about 8.5k 1:25 variants in the wild.

 

That isn't even close to correct. That print is including the x retailer variants at 3000/1500 (plus whatever Midtown orders on those variants/10k/5k?) per store. Subtract those out and you have a general idea of the 1:25/1:100 variants. Furthermore, if a shop orders 74 copies, then they get 2 Ankas and 0 Hughes. The print run might be 100k in real orders, but only 500 or so Hughes and 3000 Ankas because of the way each shop orders. It isn't like Marvel just prints that amount because of the print run. I think people forget that a lot.

 

This is incorrect.

 

The variants' print run is indeed based on the print run of the main book. So 2000 for the Hughes is not out of the ballpark, as for every smaller mom and pop shop that didn't order enough to get even one, there are just as many big guys that order 200++ copies or more to get multiple variant copies. A book with a 200,000++ print run will have waaaaaaay more than 500 copies of a 1:100 variant out there, come on. There are what, 100+ on ebay alone right now? doh!

 

And at the end of the day, the print run of the variant is only part of what affects value. Scarcity on the market is the other. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

I am going to have to disagree with you on this. Let me break it down for you:

 

The stated print run was 200k copies or whatever. This figure INCLUDES the shop variants. Do you think Marvel sold 1million copies of Star Wars #1? That included the 100+ variants. That is where these numbers come from these days and that is part of the reason Marvel does them. They love to get the printing numbers higher and they also love to make money. Anyways, I think we had about 20 different retail variants that you have to subtract from that 200k number to get to the actual print run. Then you have to kind of guess what the shops would order. I know I have about 11 LCS/Diamond accounts within 30 miles of my house and I know of one store that would be getting a Hughes variant. I also don't think it is very out of the question that 100 out of 500 or whatever the print run may be of the Hughes Variant are up on Ebay the very day it is released. I am not sure why you think this isn't possible? For the record I am not saying the print run is 500..I was just showing examples. I would imagine the actual run on this variant is between 700-1300, but probably on the lower side of that figure and definitely not near 2000.

 

You are free to disagree, you are still however, incorrect. There will be "at least" 2000 copies of the Hughes out there based on the print run. That's actually how variants work. By variant standards, it is not "rare", and if you really think 20+% of all copies of the Hughes variant in the world are up on ebay alone for sale right now, you may want to re-think the long term viability/popularity of this character and that book. lol None of the what if-Gwen stuff is "rare". Not even the Land variant of EoSV #2. This stuff is and will be slabbed and flipped left and right until the carcass is completely bled dry. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

I am not sure if you are not listening or just do not understand. I will break it down one last time to see if you can grasp it. The stated print run was around 200k books. You have to subtract out the 20 shops (roughly) that ordered the variants from that 200k. They had to order at least 3k/1500 on those variants in order to do that and some shops did 3 variants (conquest) and some shops may have ordered more than 3k/1500 (Midtown probably does closer to 10k/5k). That leaves you with around 100k-125k regular covers. Of those numbers many, many of those books are going to shops that are not ordering enough to get the 100 book incentive (and that also doesn't include the Blanks as per JJ). Those copies all come right off of the top and will not be counted. This leaves whatever is left and in what groups of 100 they ordered. This would leave the print run around 700-1250 or so and probably on the lower end (as I stated earlier). The book came out yesterday and you have a hard time understanding why 20% of the potential print run would be on ebay now? That doesn't make any sense to me. I bet 75% of the Phantom print run was on ebay a few weeks ago. Were you able to grasp that part? I am fine with you disagreeing with me, but you just keep stating the print run is based on the initial print run and your facts and understanding of how this works are clearly not accurate. If you have any actual facts feel free to insert them wherever.

 

I understand just fine. I think the disconnect is that you believe that all of the variants count as part of the print run, when they do not. The variants are in addition to the main print run, hence the term "dealer incentive" to order x-amount of copies of the regular cover to get x-amount of variant covers in addition. (thumbs u

 

-J.

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so with the print run there's about 8.5k 1:25 variants in the wild.

 

That isn't even close to correct. That print is including the x retailer variants at 3000/1500 (plus whatever Midtown orders on those variants/10k/5k?) per store. Subtract those out and you have a general idea of the 1:25/1:100 variants. Furthermore, if a shop orders 74 copies, then they get 2 Ankas and 0 Hughes. The print run might be 100k in real orders, but only 500 or so Hughes and 3000 Ankas because of the way each shop orders. It isn't like Marvel just prints that amount because of the print run. I think people forget that a lot.

 

This is incorrect.

 

The variants' print run is indeed based on the print run of the main book. So 2000 for the Hughes is not out of the ballpark, as for every smaller mom and pop shop that didn't order enough to get even one, there are just as many big guys that order 200++ copies or more to get multiple variant copies. A book with a 200,000++ print run will have waaaaaaay more than 500 copies of a 1:100 variant out there, come on. There are what, 100+ on ebay alone right now? doh!

 

And at the end of the day, the print run of the variant is only part of what affects value. Scarcity on the market is the other. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

I am going to have to disagree with you on this. Let me break it down for you:

 

The stated print run was 200k copies or whatever. This figure INCLUDES the shop variants. Do you think Marvel sold 1million copies of Star Wars #1? That included the 100+ variants. That is where these numbers come from these days and that is part of the reason Marvel does them. They love to get the printing numbers higher and they also love to make money. Anyways, I think we had about 20 different retail variants that you have to subtract from that 200k number to get to the actual print run. Then you have to kind of guess what the shops would order. I know I have about 11 LCS/Diamond accounts within 30 miles of my house and I know of one store that would be getting a Hughes variant. I also don't think it is very out of the question that 100 out of 500 or whatever the print run may be of the Hughes Variant are up on Ebay the very day it is released. I am not sure why you think this isn't possible? For the record I am not saying the print run is 500..I was just showing examples. I would imagine the actual run on this variant is between 700-1300, but probably on the lower side of that figure and definitely not near 2000.

 

You are free to disagree, you are still however, incorrect. There will be "at least" 2000 copies of the Hughes out there based on the print run. That's actually how variants work. By variant standards, it is not "rare", and if you really think 20+% of all copies of the Hughes variant in the world are up on ebay alone for sale right now, you may want to re-think the long term viability/popularity of this character and that book. lol None of the what if-Gwen stuff is "rare". Not even the Land variant of EoSV #2. This stuff is and will be slabbed and flipped left and right until the carcass is completely bled dry. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

I am not sure if you are not listening or just do not understand. I will break it down one last time to see if you can grasp it. The stated print run was around 200k books. You have to subtract out the 20 shops (roughly) that ordered the variants from that 200k. They had to order at least 3k/1500 on those variants in order to do that and some shops did 3 variants (conquest) and some shops may have ordered more than 3k/1500 (Midtown probably does closer to 10k/5k). That leaves you with around 100k-125k regular covers. Of those numbers many, many of those books are going to shops that are not ordering enough to get the 100 book incentive (and that also doesn't include the Blanks as per JJ). Those copies all come right off of the top and will not be counted. This leaves whatever is left and in what groups of 100 they ordered. This would leave the print run around 700-1250 or so and probably on the lower end (as I stated earlier). The book came out yesterday and you have a hard time understanding why 20% of the potential print run would be on ebay now? That doesn't make any sense to me. I bet 75% of the Phantom print run was on ebay a few weeks ago. Were you able to grasp that part? I am fine with you disagreeing with me, but you just keep stating the print run is based on the initial print run and your facts and understanding of how this works are clearly not accurate. If you have any actual facts feel free to insert them wherever.

 

Pretty much nails it.

Very easy to see 20% or more on eBay right away. I think what has to be factored in (a stated above) are those regional variants, blanks and probably Young copies not counting towards the goal of 100 regular copies = 1 Adam Hughes

As time goes on we will see if the market absorbs the AH! Variant or if it remains on eBay with shops trying to undercut each other. It's been out a day, let's give it a week or 2.

 

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I have 5 LCS in my area. None of them ordered enough to get a 1:100 variant. Even the big shop only had enough to qualify for 2 of the 1:25 variants and this shop usually always have the 1:100 and 1:200 variants. I was hoping to get a few variants but walked away with nothing :(

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I understand just fine. I think the disconnect is that you believe that all of the variants count as part of the print run, when they do not. The variants are in addition to the main print run, hence the term "dealer incentive" to order x-amount of copies of the regular cover to get x-amount of variant covers in addition. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

They do count toward the print run. Do you think Star Wars 1 had a one million copy print run and then the variants were on top of that? Do you think WD 132 had a 300k print run? Or maybe did that include the Loot Crate incentive? Those Diamond/Comichron numbers include retailer variants. Maybe do some google research and you can see it yourself.

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I understand just fine. I think the disconnect is that you believe that all of the variants count as part of the print run, when they do not. The variants are in addition to the main print run, hence the term "dealer incentive" to order x-amount of copies of the regular cover to get x-amount of variant covers in addition. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

They do count toward the print run. Do you think Star Wars 1 had a one million copy print run and then the variants were on top of that? Do you think WD 132 had a 300k print run? Or maybe did that include the Loot Crate incentive? Those Diamond/Comichron numbers include retailer variants. Maybe do some google research and you can see it yourself.

 

Yes. That's how variants work. (thumbs u Comichron does not include variants and diamond does not disclose the print runs of variants. I thought everyone knew that? (shrug) That's why we can only estimate the amount of variants based on print runs. See.... recalledcomics.com.

 

-J.

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From ICV2:

 

MARVEL CONFIRMS 'STAR WARS' #1 ORDERS

 

Over One Million

 

December 12 2014 @ 2:50 am CT

Marvel SVP Sales and Marketing David Gabriel confirmed to Comicbook.com that initial orders on Star Wars #1, due out in January, have topped one million copies. Strong orders from comic shops and a large number of exclusive covers, sold through outlets new to comics, drove the numbers, according to Gabriel.

 

But the very heavy variant plan and the exclusive covers are not the only thing driving the numbers, the core demand is also very strong, Gabriel said. “I can safely say that even without the massive variant plan on this first issue, the numbers on the regular cover alone would make this the highest selling debut of 2015,” Gabriel told the site.

 

 

From comichron:

As expected, Marvel's relaunch issue Star Wars #1 had sales that, when UK and February reorders are included, will put it over 1 million copies sold; Diamond shipped closed to 986,000 copies to North American retailers in the month of January. The lion's share of those orders were placed by comics ships, although one of the dozens of variant covers was for the repackager Loot Crate, whose orders would have been somewhere over 200,000 copies based on what we've seen in the past. Regardless, it's reasonably safe to assume the issue would have taken the century bestseller record based on comic-shop sales alone.

 

Comichron article about WD132 Lootcrate and RR1 Lootcrate

 

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There is no way the regular Spider-Gwen, by itself, had a print run of 200K.

The 200K number is the total number of ALL #1 printings (regular, Young, 1:25, 1:100, store variants).

 

If I am incorrect on this, I apologize, but that is how it has always been explained to me, and to think there are 200K of the regular #1 out there seems preposterous.

 

 

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