Spider-Gwen - Jason Latour and Robbie Rodriguez 0

[Jaydogrules]

Larry, are you reading this? Did the Phantom program qualify for 1:100 variants? Would a store variant of 3000 books get 30 1:100s based on their variant order?

 

I can answer for Larry. No (and also thanks for looking at this with logic).

How about the incentive variants? Blanks and Young's? Do they qualify as orders that get the 1:100 variants? Say a store orders:

 

Regular SG 1: 100

SG 1 Young: 50

SG 1 Blank: 50

 

Do they get 1 1:100 copy or two?

 

 

Also, how many store variants were there? 20? And another 10 B+W?

 

No.

Only regular covers count.

 

I painfully know this by constantly miscalculating & missing out.

 

( I honestly don't know number of shop variants )

 

Yup. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

 

[500Club]

Y

 

Recalledcomics.com is a wonderful resource that explains how to ballpark the print runs on variants. The Hughes would be about 2500 based on comparable math. (And yes, some smaller shops will have ordered less than 100 and not have gotten the variant, but for every one of those, it is a safe assumption that a medium to large shop will have ordered a few hundred copies of the main cover and received more than one copy of the variant to offset such. Factor in international sales, and, yes, 2500 is a fair and reasonable ballpark.)

No, there's no offsetting. Let's look at some hypothetical math/orders:

 

Store A: 50

Store B: 160

Store C: 40

Store D: 300

Store E: 1000

Store F: 250

Store G: 70

Store H: 140

Store I: 20

 

That should capture a reasonable profile of store sizes. Total copies: 2030. Total 1:100 covers based on orders: 17.

 

You can see how the 1:100 ratio disconnects due to the smaller orders, and, no, the larger orders are not getting 3 extra copies to offset that.

 

Right. In your plausible scenario, the count would only be off by 3. That's why I stated that there are *approximately* 2500 copies of the variant, after also factoring in international orders, there are perhaps more. Also, this book was very clearly over ordered so there is a very reasonable chance that many smaller stores ordered more than their usual numbers because of the hype.

No. Not 3. Fifteen percent. So, right there, you can trim the overall number down from the 1:100 ratio by 15%.

 

And, yes, I tried to skew the numbers to larger, to account for the hype. There are many #1s where smaller operations are probably only ordering 5-20 copies. I figured 20 was probably a rock bottom guess for this book, but I'll check with my LCS, who is in fact a smaller store volume wise.

 

No you cannot necessarily do that. And even if you did, international sales would *more* than make up for the difference. Which is why I have said (and continue to say) that 2500 is a reasonable estimate for the book's print run and possibly as high as 3000 if you factored in all international sales.

You can necessarily do it. And I did.

 

What you can't necessarily do is say the number is exactly 15%. It may be 10%; it may be 20%. What is irrefutable is the fact that there is a significant change in the true ratio. 100K copies do not translate to 1000 copies of a 1:100 variant.

 

 

Is Diamond not involved in International orders? Are international orders not included in the 254K print number?

[Jaydogrules]

Y

 

Recalledcomics.com is a wonderful resource that explains how to ballpark the print runs on variants. The Hughes would be about 2500 based on comparable math. (And yes, some smaller shops will have ordered less than 100 and not have gotten the variant, but for every one of those, it is a safe assumption that a medium to large shop will have ordered a few hundred copies of the main cover and received more than one copy of the variant to offset such. Factor in international sales, and, yes, 2500 is a fair and reasonable ballpark.)

No, there's no offsetting. Let's look at some hypothetical math/orders:

 

Store A: 50

Store B: 160

Store C: 40

Store D: 300

Store E: 1000

Store F: 250

Store G: 70

Store H: 140

Store I: 20

 

That should capture a reasonable profile of store sizes. Total copies: 2030. Total 1:100 covers based on orders: 17.

 

You can see how the 1:100 ratio disconnects due to the smaller orders, and, no, the larger orders are not getting 3 extra copies to offset that.

 

Right. In your plausible scenario, the count would only be off by 3. That's why I stated that there are *approximately* 2500 copies of the variant, after also factoring in international orders, there are perhaps more. Also, this book was very clearly over ordered so there is a very reasonable chance that many smaller stores ordered more than their usual numbers because of the hype.

No. Not 3. Fifteen percent. So, right there, you can trim the overall number down from the 1:100 ratio by 15%.

 

And, yes, I tried to skew the numbers to larger, to account for the hype. There are many #1s where smaller operations are probably only ordering 5-20 copies. I figured 20 was probably a rock bottom guess for this book, but I'll check with my LCS, who is in fact a smaller store volume wise.

 

No you cannot necessarily do that. And even if you did, international sales would *more* than make up for the difference. Which is why I have said (and continue to say) that 2500 is a reasonable estimate for the book's print run and possibly as high as 3000 if you factored in all international sales.

You can necessarily do it. And I did.

 

What you can't necessarily do is say the number is exactly 15%. It may be 10%; it may be 20%. What is irrefutable is the fact that there is a significant change in the true ratio. 100K copies do not translate to 1000 copies of a 1:100 variant.

 

 

Is Diamond not involved in International orders? Are international orders not included in the 254K print number?

 

I agree with you.  And my point is that after international sales are factored in, it is, more often than not, at the very least a wash. 

 

No, the number you see on comichron does not include international orders. On a book like this, the number of the print run could be 30, 40% higher after factoring those in.

 

-J.

[LarrysComics]

Y

 

Recalledcomics.com is a wonderful resource that explains how to ballpark the print runs on variants. The Hughes would be about 2500 based on comparable math. (And yes, some smaller shops will have ordered less than 100 and not have gotten the variant, but for every one of those, it is a safe assumption that a medium to large shop will have ordered a few hundred copies of the main cover and received more than one copy of the variant to offset such. Factor in international sales, and, yes, 2500 is a fair and reasonable ballpark.)

No, there's no offsetting. Let's look at some hypothetical math/orders:

 

Store A: 50

Store B: 160

Store C: 40

Store D: 300

Store E: 1000

Store F: 250

Store G: 70

Store H: 140

Store I: 20

 

That should capture a reasonable profile of store sizes. Total copies: 2030. Total 1:100 covers based on orders: 17.

 

You can see how the 1:100 ratio disconnects due to the smaller orders, and, no, the larger orders are not getting 3 extra copies to offset that.

 

Right. In your plausible scenario, the count would only be off by 3. That's why I stated that there are *approximately* 2500 copies of the variant, after also factoring in international orders, there are perhaps more. Also, this book was very clearly over ordered so there is a very reasonable chance that many smaller stores ordered more than their usual numbers because of the hype.

No. Not 3. Fifteen percent. So, right there, you can trim the overall number down from the 1:100 ratio by 15%.

 

And, yes, I tried to skew the numbers to larger, to account for the hype. There are many #1s where smaller operations are probably only ordering 5-20 copies. I figured 20 was probably a rock bottom guess for this book, but I'll check with my LCS, who is in fact a smaller store volume wise.

 

No you cannot necessarily do that. And even if you did, international sales would *more* than make up for the difference. Which is why I have said (and continue to say) that 2500 is a reasonable estimate for the book's print run and possibly as high as 3000 if you factored in all international sales.

You can necessarily do it. And I did.

 

What you can't necessarily do is say the number is exactly 15%. It may be 10%; it may be 20%. What is irrefutable is the fact that there is a significant change in the true ratio. 100K copies do not translate to 1000 copies of a 1:100 variant.

 

 

Is Diamond not involved in International orders? Are international orders not included in the 254K print number?

 

International ( Diamond UK ) is NOT part of Comichrons numbers.

Neither are:

 

Overage /damage run. ( generally 3%)

Comps

Publisher inventory

Edited March 17, 2015 by LarrysComics

[carcrawfordfan]

Y

 

Recalledcomics.com is a wonderful resource that explains how to ballpark the print runs on variants. The Hughes would be about 2500 based on comparable math. (And yes, some smaller shops will have ordered less than 100 and not have gotten the variant, but for every one of those, it is a safe assumption that a medium to large shop will have ordered a few hundred copies of the main cover and received more than one copy of the variant to offset such. Factor in international sales, and, yes, 2500 is a fair and reasonable ballpark.)

No, there's no offsetting. Let's look at some hypothetical math/orders:

 

Store A: 50

Store B: 160

Store C: 40

Store D: 300

Store E: 1000

Store F: 250

Store G: 70

Store H: 140

Store I: 20

 

That should capture a reasonable profile of store sizes. Total copies: 2030. Total 1:100 covers based on orders: 17.

 

You can see how the 1:100 ratio disconnects due to the smaller orders, and, no, the larger orders are not getting 3 extra copies to offset that.

 

Right. In your plausible scenario, the count would only be off by 3. That's why I stated that there are *approximately* 2500 copies of the variant, after also factoring in international orders, there are perhaps more. Also, this book was very clearly over ordered so there is a very reasonable chance that many smaller stores ordered more than their usual numbers because of the hype.

No. Not 3. Fifteen percent. So, right there, you can trim the overall number down from the 1:100 ratio by 15%.

 

And, yes, I tried to skew the numbers to larger, to account for the hype. There are many #1s where smaller operations are probably only ordering 5-20 copies. I figured 20 was probably a rock bottom guess for this book, but I'll check with my LCS, who is in fact a smaller store volume wise.

 

No you cannot necessarily do that. And even if you did, international sales would *more* than make up for the difference. Which is why I have said (and continue to say) that 2500 is a reasonable estimate for the book's print run and possibly as high as 3000 if you factored in all international sales.

You can necessarily do it. And I did.

 

What you can't necessarily do is say the number is exactly 15%. It may be 10%; it may be 20%. What is irrefutable is the fact that there is a significant change in the true ratio. 100K copies do not translate to 1000 copies of a 1:100 variant.

 

 

Is Diamond not involved in International orders? Are international orders not included in the 254K print number?

 

International ( Diamond UK ) is NOT part of Comichrons numbers.

Neither are:

 

Overage /damage run. ( generally 3%)

Comps

Publisher inventory

 

Could you please explain to Jdog that the shop/retailer exclusive variants are included in the Comichron number , but do not qualify for incentives? He refuses to accept this as a fact.

[LarrysComics]

YES

retail exclusives, skottie youngs, incentives ALL count towards Comichrons number...

 

ONLY regular covers count towards incentives

[Jaydogrules]

Y

 

Recalledcomics.com is a wonderful resource that explains how to ballpark the print runs on variants. The Hughes would be about 2500 based on comparable math. (And yes, some smaller shops will have ordered less than 100 and not have gotten the variant, but for every one of those, it is a safe assumption that a medium to large shop will have ordered a few hundred copies of the main cover and received more than one copy of the variant to offset such. Factor in international sales, and, yes, 2500 is a fair and reasonable ballpark.)

No, there's no offsetting. Let's look at some hypothetical math/orders:

 

Store A: 50

Store B: 160

Store C: 40

Store D: 300

Store E: 1000

Store F: 250

Store G: 70

Store H: 140

Store I: 20

 

That should capture a reasonable profile of store sizes. Total copies: 2030. Total 1:100 covers based on orders: 17.

 

You can see how the 1:100 ratio disconnects due to the smaller orders, and, no, the larger orders are not getting 3 extra copies to offset that.

 

Right. In your plausible scenario, the count would only be off by 3. That's why I stated that there are *approximately* 2500 copies of the variant, after also factoring in international orders, there are perhaps more. Also, this book was very clearly over ordered so there is a very reasonable chance that many smaller stores ordered more than their usual numbers because of the hype.

No. Not 3. Fifteen percent. So, right there, you can trim the overall number down from the 1:100 ratio by 15%.

 

And, yes, I tried to skew the numbers to larger, to account for the hype. There are many #1s where smaller operations are probably only ordering 5-20 copies. I figured 20 was probably a rock bottom guess for this book, but I'll check with my LCS, who is in fact a smaller store volume wise.

 

No you cannot necessarily do that. And even if you did, international sales would *more* than make up for the difference. Which is why I have said (and continue to say) that 2500 is a reasonable estimate for the book's print run and possibly as high as 3000 if you factored in all international sales.

You can necessarily do it. And I did.

 

What you can't necessarily do is say the number is exactly 15%. It may be 10%; it may be 20%. What is irrefutable is the fact that there is a significant change in the true ratio. 100K copies do not translate to 1000 copies of a 1:100 variant.

 

 

Is Diamond not involved in International orders? Are international orders not included in the 254K print number?

 

International ( Diamond UK ) is NOT part of Comichrons numbers.

Neither are:

 

Overage /damage run. ( generally 3%)

Comps

Publisher inventory

 

Could you please explain to Jdog that the shop/retailer exclusive variants are included in the Comichron number , but do not qualify for incentives? He refuses to accept this as a fact.

 

He won't explain that because it is incorrect. The print runs of variants are not disclosed by diamond. Ergo, the number reported on comichron cannot include the variants. That number is the *main cover only*. Again, see recalledcomics.com for how to calculate a ballpark for variant print runs.

 

-J.

[Jaydogrules]

YES

retail exclusives, skottie youngs, incentives ALL count towards Comichrons number...

 

ONLY regular covers count towards incentives

 

No, you are incorrect here. Diamond does not report print runs for variants.

 

-J.

[gclicon]

YES

retail exclusives, skottie youngs, incentives ALL count towards Comichrons number...

 

ONLY regular covers count towards incentives

 

No, you are incorrect here. Diamond does not report print runs for variants.

 

-J.

 

http://comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2015/2015-02.html

 

doesn't the little dagger explain that Orphan Black includes 350k Loot Crates?

[fastballspecial]

YES

retail exclusives, skottie youngs, incentives ALL count towards Comichrons number...

 

ONLY regular covers count towards incentives

 

No, you are incorrect here. Diamond does not report print runs for variants.

 

-J.

 

http://comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2015/2015-02.html

 

doesn't the little dagger explain that Orphan Black includes 350k Loot Crates?

 

So really if you ever want a book to appreciate don't let Loot Crate near it?

 

[HighRadArt]

[LarrysComics]

YES

retail exclusives, skottie youngs, incentives ALL count towards Comichrons number...

 

ONLY regular covers count towards incentives

 

No, you are incorrect here. Diamond does not report print runs for variants.

 

-J.

 

Hilarious...

moving on.

[Aweandlorder]

YES

retail exclusives, skottie youngs, incentives ALL count towards Comichrons number...

 

ONLY regular covers count towards incentives

 

No, you are incorrect here. Diamond does not report print runs for variants.

 

-J.

 

http://comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2015/2015-02.html

 

doesn't the little dagger explain that Orphan Black includes 350k Loot Crates?

 

So really if you ever want a book to appreciate don't let Loot Crate near it?

 

Give it to Hot Topic instead

[500Club]

YES

retail exclusives, skottie youngs, incentives ALL count towards Comichrons number...

 

ONLY regular covers count towards incentives

 

No, you are incorrect here. Diamond does not report print runs for variants.

So this is the crux of the discussion, then. Is the 254K regular covers only, or is it all copies shipped through Diamond?

 

If it's regular covers only, I suspect Jay's number is near correct, and indeed international numbers and small store orders are a wash.

 

If it's all covers, there's a huge chunk of books in the 254K that don't qualify for the 1:100s, and carcrawford's number is likely close.

[Jaydogrules]

YES

retail exclusives, skottie youngs, incentives ALL count towards Comichrons number...

 

ONLY regular covers count towards incentives

 

No, you are incorrect here. Diamond does not report print runs for variants.

So this is the crux of the discussion, then. Is the 254K regular covers only, or is it all copies shipped through Diamond?

 

If it's regular covers only, I suspect Jay's number is near correct, and indeed international numbers and small store orders are a wash.

 

If it's all covers, there's a huge chunk of books in the 254K that don't qualify for the 1:100s, and carcrawford's number is likely close.

 

It is the regular covers only. Diamond *does not* report print runs for variants.

 

I refer you back to recalledcomics.com which features multiple books with ballparked print run numbers that are premised on the regular cover orders for several dealer incentive variants (EoSV #2 being one of them as well now).

 

-J.

[carcrawfordfan]

YES

retail exclusives, skottie youngs, incentives ALL count towards Comichrons number...

 

ONLY regular covers count towards incentives

 

No, you are incorrect here. Diamond does not report print runs for variants.

So this is the crux of the discussion, then. Is the 254K regular covers only, or is it all copies shipped through Diamond?

 

If it's regular covers only, I suspect Jay's number is near correct, and indeed international numbers and small store orders are a wash.

 

If it's all covers, there's a huge chunk of books in the 254K that don't qualify for the 1:100s, and carcrawford's number is likely close.

 

It is the regular covers only. Diamond *does not* report print runs for variants.

 

I refer you back to recalledcomics.com which features multiple books with ballparked print run numbers that are premised on the regular cover orders for several dealer incentive variants (EoSV #2 being one of them as well now).

 

-J.

 

You, sir....are insane. I gave you links that explain it, Larry (a rather large retailer who actually produces store retailers), and other boardies have told you these numbers are included in the Comichron numbers. Your only argument is based on a random website that just divides the print run by the odds on the variant. That is some serious science involved in that. No one said anything about Diamond disclosing print runs for variants and I have no idea why that is one of your talking points. We are trying to tell you that the 20-25 retailers who ordered store exclusives/phantom variants/ghost variants/etc. are INCLUDED in the print run for that book in the month. These are accounts that are serviced by and produced by Diamond and ship to the retailers from Diamond. I am done talking about this because it is like talking to a brick wall. I would hope that you would do some more research and stop spreading misinformation.

 

 

[Jaydogrules]

YES

retail exclusives, skottie youngs, incentives ALL count towards Comichrons number...

 

ONLY regular covers count towards incentives

 

No, you are incorrect here. Diamond does not report print runs for variants.

So this is the crux of the discussion, then. Is the 254K regular covers only, or is it all copies shipped through Diamond?

 

If it's regular covers only, I suspect Jay's number is near correct, and indeed international numbers and small store orders are a wash.

 

If it's all covers, there's a huge chunk of books in the 254K that don't qualify for the 1:100s, and carcrawford's number is likely close.

 

It is the regular covers only. Diamond *does not* report print runs for variants.

 

I refer you back to recalledcomics.com which features multiple books with ballparked print run numbers that are premised on the regular cover orders for several dealer incentive variants (EoSV #2 being one of them as well now).

 

-J.

 

You, sir....are insane. I gave you links that explain it, Larry (a rather large retailer who actually produces store retailers), and other boardies have told you these numbers are included in the Comichron numbers. Your only argument is based on a random website that just divides the print run by the odds on the variant. That is some serious science involved in that. No one said anything about Diamond disclosing print runs for variants and I have no idea why that is one of your talking points. We are trying to tell you that the 20-25 retailers who ordered store exclusives/phantom variants/ghost variants/etc. are INCLUDED in the print run for that book in the month. These are accounts that are serviced by and produced by Diamond and ship to the retailers from Diamond. I am done talking about this because it is like talking to a brick wall. I would hope that you would do some more research and stop spreading misinformation.

 

 

And again, you are still wrong.

 

NO variant print runs are disclosed by diamond. Zero. Zilch. Nada. None. Nothing.

 

That being the case, there is NO WAY for the print runs of the variants to be included in the comichron total. What you are seeing is the regular cover ONLY. Nothing you have linked to states otherwise and the reason you are unable to provide any applicable links is because you are wrong. First you tried to tell people this thing only had 500 copies. Now you're saying 1250. Clearly, you do not know what you are talking about, so maybe you should stop talking.

 

And It does not matter what "kind" of variant it is, or who ordered it.

 

THEY ARE NOT INCLUDED.

 

For you to say otherwise is an outright lie. I'm sure you're just trying to make a buck, but I would suggest you try doing so without attempting to deceive the participants on these boards.

 

And yes, recalledcomics.com is a well respected site. I'm sorry if ALL of the information on there disagrees with everything you are trying to say here as well, but it is what it is.

 

*I apologize to the other readers of this post if I seem rather inflamed. But this guy really needs to just quit. His motives are just too transparent.

 

-J.

[carcrawfordfan]

You got me...I own one copy of it.

[Awax]

Is a " b " cover a variant

[Jaydogrules]

You got me...I own one copy of it.

 

 

Truce.

 

-J.