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Spider-Gwen - Jason Latour and Robbie Rodriguez
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Started by Jackhartmann,

2,566 posts in this topic

500Club

500Club

Posted
Posted
1)According to Comichron's sales estimates for comics ordered in February 2015. based on data Diamond released today, in February a comic book has once again topped the monthly sales charts because of vast quantities by a single retailer, the repackager Loot Crate.

 

With nearly half a million copies shipped, IDW's Orphan Black #1 would, in fact, rank as the fourth best-selling comic book of the Diamond Exclusive Era, behind January's Star Wars #1, last year's Amazing Spider-Man #1, and Amazing Spider-Man #583 from 2009. It is the third time a comic book has topped the charts likely due to the massive size of Loot Crate's order.

 

2)In the least surprising news in some time, Star Wars #1 from Marvel was the chart-topper: the comic book is reported by its publisher to have sales over a million copies, helped by an unprecedented number of variant covers and boosted by special editions for Loot Crate and other channels. Marvel's market share jumped as a consequence, accounting for 45.64% of units and 41.05% of dollars. Overall comics unit sales were up 10.27% year-over-year, but slightly off from December

 

3)Walking Dead returned to its previous sales level, following last month's Loot Crate-enhanced sales; this would seem to strengthen the case that the October Loot Crate purchase of Walking Dead #132 was likely around 256,000 copies. That's more than Loot Crate appears to have bought of the Guardians of the Galaxy spinoff Rocket Raccoon #1 earlier in the summer, so it's likely there's quite a bit of variance in its orders from set to set. Given how the "crates" can be purchased a la carte as well as by subscription, that would make sense.

 

4)Yet another group of end-users for the data is collectors who want to know how scarce a given comic book is, and the more data points for them, the better. We'd hate not to know how many total copies are out there. But there's no returning to the days of breaking out variant covers into their own entries, now that such variants are ubiquitous. I honestly don't know what the solution is, but I suspect that if other firms enter the Loot Crate space offering comics, odds are the question will be raised again. For Comichron's part, the sales are ginormous enough that we'll be including a dagger (as we're already using the asterisk) when any Loot Crate-enhanced issue appears in the rankings. Future readers won't need to wonder why sales spiked so high.

 

5)Diamond Comic Distributors releases its sales reports for April 2014 orders from comics shops in North America soon, an it is widely expected that Marvel's Amazing Spider-Man Vol. 3 #1, the second relaunched version of that long-running series, will be a blockbuster. Its many variant covers — including a large number specially designed for specific individual comics stores—is likely to give it a high place on the Top Comics of the 21st Century list, which currently is topped by Amazing Spider-Man Vol. 1 #583, the Barack Obama inauguration issue. That issue had orders of at least 530,500 copies across several printings in early 2009 — and more, if newsstand sales are included.

It's pretty clear from this that Diamond's sales figures released to Comichron include variants.

 

Are these text pieces direct from Comichron?

 

 

Yes, they are.

Game over.

 

Right from the horse's mouth, John Jackson Miller and Comichron are using Diamond totals that include variants and ordering incentive books. Therefore to calculate the population of 1:100 books, you need to ballpark the regular covers shipped. That means subtracting incentives and store/specialty variants.

 

...except that's not what is said in the article, and your interpretation is incorrect. Plus, oh yeah, Spider Gwen #1 wasn't a loot crate book. doh!lol

 

-J.

Let's run through interpretation. Look above, at the bolded text after 2). Read this part: Star Wars 1 from Marvel was the chart topper... helped by an unprecedented number of variant covers...

 

In basic English, 'helped by an unprecedented number of variant covers', means that those unprecedented numbers were included in the sales figures.

 

Therefore, the glaringly obvious conclusion is that Comichron is including variants in its sales totals.

 

 

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bababooey

bababooey

Posted
Posted
OK so going through to summarize this & try to make some sense of this and be the lone person agreeing with jaydogrules conclusion but disagreeing with what little reasoning he put forward. :insane:

 

The Diamond sales or ICV2/Comichron numbers are the total reported sales for all of NA through Diamond. These entities do not break out variants or "disclose/report" individual print runs for variants - this is the point that jaydog repeated over and over while misrepresenting it as the reasoning for them not being included.

 

Everyone agrees that blanks and other non-incentive variants ARE included in the total Diamond sales numbers.

 

The main debate hinges on incentive variants, Larry has confirmed that the incentives are supplied based only on regular covers ordered, I'd assume that includes 50/50 split cover runs but not the blank or other "order as many as you want" variants.

 

So in trying to find the reasoning behind jaydogrules' position, my question is simple. How much does the LCS pay for incentive variants?

I'm under the impression they are supplied based on quantities orders (ie- free of charge) - if that's the case then they may not be included as part of the sales total or reported numbers. They may be books created over and above the reported sales totals and if you go back to ICV2 the numbers relate to sales figures/revenue/market percentages etc...

 

The actual impact is minor, most of the time but it does probably demonstrate why 10-1 incentives are common as dirt :D

jaydog is saying: 100K print run (no non-incentive variants) and book has 25-1 & 100-1 - the straight up math is 4000 and 1000 respectively

everyone else is saying: 100K includes regular, 25-1 and 100-1

 

*you could probably use the store-by-store order threshold formula to reduce the presumed availability of higher ratio variants and then create some sliding scale based on total print run, the challenge in all of this is when there are non-incentive variants available for a particular issue

 

:fear:

 

That's a bit off.

 

JayDog is saying the 254K reported sales for SG 1 is just regular covers, so use the 1:100 ratio to arrive at 2500 copies.

 

The overwhelming view is that the 254K includes regular covers, blanks, Young's, and shop and specialty variant covers. Thus, the 1:100 is applied to a much smaller actual number of regular covers.

Right, my 100 K sample explains that showing how a book with only a 25-1 & a 100-1 incentive might prove him right. (about incentives not being reported as part of the print/sales runs)

I wasn't agreeing to his print run estimate for Spider-Gwen 1 (which has all those other variants) but I was trying to create a reality where the incentive variant numbers WEREN'T included in the totals reported by Diamond/ICV2/Comichron.

(shrug)

 

And they aren't. And my reasoning behind it is clear. Diamond does not disclose print runs of variants and comichron does not report international sales. Some have been straining to rope in loot crate numbers (irrelevant since this was not a loot crate book) and/or state "well diamond doesn't report the print runs of variants but maybe they do in bulk to comichron or something.".

 

Wrong.

 

NO VARIANT FIGURES ARE DISCLOSED BY DIAMOND.

 

Let me say it again:

 

NO VARIANT FIGURES ARE DISCLOSED BY DIAMOND.

 

Variant covers have their own unique print runs and they are not reported by diamond.

 

Loot crate is its own animal. Hence why it's got an asterisk every time. That means the book was not a standard distribution book. If Spider Gwen #1 was a loot crate book there might be a point. But it wasn't. So that point is moot.

 

NO VARIANT FIGURES ARE DISCLOSED BY DIAMOND.

 

The Hughes variant had AT LEAST 2500 copies printed and distributed with the MASSIVE print run of 250k+ copies of the regular cover printed, plus international. It is not rare.

 

Deal with it.

 

-J.

 

I don't care about the Gwen count but if you're saying there are 254K regular covers out there and all the rest are unaccounted for and not a reported revenue stream then go with that

 

My point is that a "sold" variant (store variant, blank, non-incentive) will cost a store money and WILL BE included in the Diamond/ICV2/Comichon numbers.

 

I'm just trying to figure out whether the incentive variants (provided to retailers based on regular cover sales) are or are not included in the sales figures being reported. I think I was agreeing with you in thinking that the incentive covers may not be included in Diamond's sales numbers.

 

I don't agree with how you are coming to that conclusion though but just keep repeating the same thing in caps without explanation - I'm sure you'll get everyone to see things your way.

(thumbs u

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500Club

500Club

Posted
Posted

 

And they aren't. And my reasoning behind it is clear. Diamond does not disclose print runs of variants and comichron does not report international sales. Some have been straining to rope in loot crate numbers (irrelevant since this was not a loot crate book) and/or state "well diamond doesn't report the print runs of variants but maybe they do in bulk to comichron or something.".

 

Wrong.

 

NO VARIANT FIGURES ARE DISCLOSED BY DIAMOND.

 

Let me say it again:

 

NO VARIANT FIGURES ARE DISCLOSED BY DIAMOND.

 

Variant covers have their own unique print runs and they are not reported by diamond.

 

Loot crate is its own animal. Hence why it's got an asterisk every time. That means the book was not a standard distribution book. If Spider Gwen #1 was a loot crate book you might have a point. But it wasn't. So that point is moot.

 

NO VARIANT FIGURES ARE DISCLOSED BY DIAMOND.

 

The Hughes variant had AT LEAST 2500 copies printed and distributed with the MASSIVE print run of 250k+ copies of the regular cover printed, plus international. It is not rare.

 

Deal with it.

 

-J.

 

Your reasoning is clear. It's also wrong.

 

You are right: no variant figures are disclosed by Diamond. But even though they don't release them individually, they release them in toto to Comichron.

 

That much is VERY CLEAR in the Comichron narrative above.

 

No it isn't. And it doesn't say that. That article is about loot crate books and it's effect on Comichron's numbers and why it gets asterisked out from the other books and sales figues Apples and oranges my friend. Apples and oranges.

 

-J.

Yes. Apples and oranges.

 

The original discussion was how to calculate population numbers for variants, and how to use the Comichron numbers. That's the point I'll focus on.

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Jaydogrules

Jaydogrules

Posted
Posted
1)According to Comichron's sales estimates for comics ordered in February 2015. based on data Diamond released today, in February a comic book has once again topped the monthly sales charts because of vast quantities by a single retailer, the repackager Loot Crate.

 

With nearly half a million copies shipped, IDW's Orphan Black #1 would, in fact, rank as the fourth best-selling comic book of the Diamond Exclusive Era, behind January's Star Wars #1, last year's Amazing Spider-Man #1, and Amazing Spider-Man #583 from 2009. It is the third time a comic book has topped the charts likely due to the massive size of Loot Crate's order.

 

2)In the least surprising news in some time, Star Wars #1 from Marvel was the chart-topper: the comic book is reported by its publisher to have sales over a million copies, helped by an unprecedented number of variant covers and boosted by special editions for Loot Crate and other channels. Marvel's market share jumped as a consequence, accounting for 45.64% of units and 41.05% of dollars. Overall comics unit sales were up 10.27% year-over-year, but slightly off from December

 

3)Walking Dead returned to its previous sales level, following last month's Loot Crate-enhanced sales; this would seem to strengthen the case that the October Loot Crate purchase of Walking Dead #132 was likely around 256,000 copies. That's more than Loot Crate appears to have bought of the Guardians of the Galaxy spinoff Rocket Raccoon #1 earlier in the summer, so it's likely there's quite a bit of variance in its orders from set to set. Given how the "crates" can be purchased a la carte as well as by subscription, that would make sense.

 

4)Yet another group of end-users for the data is collectors who want to know how scarce a given comic book is, and the more data points for them, the better. We'd hate not to know how many total copies are out there. But there's no returning to the days of breaking out variant covers into their own entries, now that such variants are ubiquitous. I honestly don't know what the solution is, but I suspect that if other firms enter the Loot Crate space offering comics, odds are the question will be raised again. For Comichron's part, the sales are ginormous enough that we'll be including a dagger (as we're already using the asterisk) when any Loot Crate-enhanced issue appears in the rankings. Future readers won't need to wonder why sales spiked so high.

 

5)Diamond Comic Distributors releases its sales reports for April 2014 orders from comics shops in North America soon, an it is widely expected that Marvel's Amazing Spider-Man Vol. 3 #1, the second relaunched version of that long-running series, will be a blockbuster. Its many variant covers — including a large number specially designed for specific individual comics stores—is likely to give it a high place on the Top Comics of the 21st Century list, which currently is topped by Amazing Spider-Man Vol. 1 #583, the Barack Obama inauguration issue. That issue had orders of at least 530,500 copies across several printings in early 2009 — and more, if newsstand sales are included.

It's pretty clear from this that Diamond's sales figures released to Comichron include variants.

 

Are these text pieces direct from Comichron?

 

 

Yes, they are.

Game over.

 

Right from the horse's mouth, John Jackson Miller and Comichron are using Diamond totals that include variants and ordering incentive books. Therefore to calculate the population of 1:100 books, you need to ballpark the regular covers shipped. That means subtracting incentives and store/specialty variants.

 

...except that's not what is said in the article, and your interpretation is incorrect. Plus, oh yeah, Spider Gwen #1 wasn't a loot crate book. doh!lol

 

-J.

Let's run through interpretation. Look above, at the bolded text after 2). Read this part: Star Wars 1 from Marvel was the chart topper... helped by an unprecedented number of variant covers...

 

In basic English, 'helped by an unprecedented number of variant covers', means that those unprecedented numbers were included in the sales figures.

 

Therefore, the glaringly obvious conclusion is that Comichron is including variants in its sales totals.

 

 

Uh-huh. And here you are still trying to compare a loot crate book to one that was not a loot crate book. So there's your first problem. And then secondly, the article states that in effect, including variants that sales of SW #1 were "over a million". Yet NOT counting variants, as reported by comichron, the sales of the regular cover were 985,976.

 

After factoring in an undisclosed number of variants I'm sure the total sales were "over a million". But by how much? We don't know for sure. Why is that?

 

BECAUSE DIAMOND DOES NOT DISCLOSE THE PRINT RUNS OF VARIANTS.

 

lol

 

-J.

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Jaydogrules

Jaydogrules

Posted
Posted
OK so going through to summarize this & try to make some sense of this and be the lone person agreeing with jaydogrules conclusion but disagreeing with what little reasoning he put forward. :insane:

 

The Diamond sales or ICV2/Comichron numbers are the total reported sales for all of NA through Diamond. These entities do not break out variants or "disclose/report" individual print runs for variants - this is the point that jaydog repeated over and over while misrepresenting it as the reasoning for them not being included.

 

Everyone agrees that blanks and other non-incentive variants ARE included in the total Diamond sales numbers.

 

The main debate hinges on incentive variants, Larry has confirmed that the incentives are supplied based only on regular covers ordered, I'd assume that includes 50/50 split cover runs but not the blank or other "order as many as you want" variants.

 

So in trying to find the reasoning behind jaydogrules' position, my question is simple. How much does the LCS pay for incentive variants?

I'm under the impression they are supplied based on quantities orders (ie- free of charge) - if that's the case then they may not be included as part of the sales total or reported numbers. They may be books created over and above the reported sales totals and if you go back to ICV2 the numbers relate to sales figures/revenue/market percentages etc...

 

The actual impact is minor, most of the time but it does probably demonstrate why 10-1 incentives are common as dirt :D

jaydog is saying: 100K print run (no non-incentive variants) and book has 25-1 & 100-1 - the straight up math is 4000 and 1000 respectively

everyone else is saying: 100K includes regular, 25-1 and 100-1

 

*you could probably use the store-by-store order threshold formula to reduce the presumed availability of higher ratio variants and then create some sliding scale based on total print run, the challenge in all of this is when there are non-incentive variants available for a particular issue

 

:fear:

 

That's a bit off.

 

JayDog is saying the 254K reported sales for SG 1 is just regular covers, so use the 1:100 ratio to arrive at 2500 copies.

 

The overwhelming view is that the 254K includes regular covers, blanks, Young's, and shop and specialty variant covers. Thus, the 1:100 is applied to a much smaller actual number of regular covers.

Right, my 100 K sample explains that showing how a book with only a 25-1 & a 100-1 incentive might prove him right. (about incentives not being reported as part of the print/sales runs)

I wasn't agreeing to his print run estimate for Spider-Gwen 1 (which has all those other variants) but I was trying to create a reality where the incentive variant numbers WEREN'T included in the totals reported by Diamond/ICV2/Comichron.

(shrug)

 

And they aren't. And my reasoning behind it is clear. Diamond does not disclose print runs of variants and comichron does not report international sales. Some have been straining to rope in loot crate numbers (irrelevant since this was not a loot crate book) and/or state "well diamond doesn't report the print runs of variants but maybe they do in bulk to comichron or something.".

 

Wrong.

 

NO VARIANT FIGURES ARE DISCLOSED BY DIAMOND.

 

Let me say it again:

 

NO VARIANT FIGURES ARE DISCLOSED BY DIAMOND.

 

Variant covers have their own unique print runs and they are not reported by diamond.

 

Loot crate is its own animal. Hence why it's got an asterisk every time. That means the book was not a standard distribution book. If Spider Gwen #1 was a loot crate book there might be a point. But it wasn't. So that point is moot.

 

NO VARIANT FIGURES ARE DISCLOSED BY DIAMOND.

 

The Hughes variant had AT LEAST 2500 copies printed and distributed with the MASSIVE print run of 250k+ copies of the regular cover printed, plus international. It is not rare.

 

Deal with it.

 

-J.

 

I don't care about the Gwen count but if you're saying there are 254K regular covers out there and all the rest are unaccounted for and not a reported revenue stream then go with that

 

My point is that a "sold" variant (store variant, blank, non-incentive) will cost a store money and WILL BE included in the Diamond/ICV2/Comichon numbers.

 

I'm just trying to figure out whether the incentive variants (provided to retailers based on regular cover sales) are or are not included in the sales figures being reported. I think I was agreeing with you in thinking that the incentive covers may not be included in Diamond's sales numbers.

 

I don't agree with how you are coming to that conclusion though but just keep repeating the same thing in caps without explanation - I'm sure you'll get everyone to see things your way.

(thumbs u

 

They aren't. I am not a fan of anecdotal evidence but I'm about to cite some here since that's all we really have (and it is better than the "no evidence" others are using).

 

Recalledcomics.com is a well-respected resource often cited on these boards as a reliable authority on matters pertaining to this discussion. The guy has been around for years, and lives and breathes this stuff. And he actually does have an inside lead on how to ballpark a retailer incentive variant print run.

 

You'll notice a pattern here:

 

ASM 678:

Domestic Print Run: 54,252

1:50 Retailer Incentive

 

Approximate Print Run of Variant: 800

 

http://www.recalledcomics.com/AmazingSpider-Man678MaryJaneVenom.php

 

ASM 700 (Ditko):

Domestic Print Run: 200,966

1:200 Retailer Incentive

 

Approximate Print Run of Variant: 900

 

http://www.recalledcomics.com/AmazingSpider-Man700DitkoVariant.php

 

EosV #2 (Land)

Domestic Print Run: 54,415

1:25 Retailer Incentive

 

Approximate Print Run of Variant: 2000

 

http://www.recalledcomics.com/EdgeOfSpider-Verse2-Variant.php

 

 

Notice how the print runs of the variants is very consistent with the sales figures quoted by comichron. Any slight differences in print orders attributed to smaller shops is usually quite handily offset by the international sale figures. This is indisputable.

 

That's because comichron only reports on the print run of the main cover. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

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Jaydogrules

Jaydogrules

Posted
Posted
You are using a website that no one ever cites or cares about with books that don't have retailer incentives. Spider-gwen has over 20 retailer incentives and they all count toward the Comichron print run. Why is this so hard to understand?

 

Dude, with this post, you just lost whatever little credibility you might have had, and are getting dangerously close to "troll" territory. Just a heads up.

(thumbs u

 

-J.

 

 

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carcrawfordfan

carcrawfordfan

Posted
Posted
You are using a website that no one ever cites or cares about with books that don't have retailer incentives. Spider-gwen has over 20 retailer incentives and they all count toward the Comichron print run. Why is this so hard to understand?

 

Dude, with this post, you just lost whatever little credibility you might have had, and are getting dangerously close to "troll" territory. Just a heads up.

(thumbs u

 

-J.

 

 

You are hilarious. This is the only info on that site that says anything about how they get the numbers they get:

 

Notes:

[1] Quantities of comics are estimates of what was printed and distributed world-wide; as most publishers do not disclose actual print run data these are just estimates and should be treated as such. Also the number that actually exist today will likely be smaller and, in some cases, much smaller.

 

Feel free to point me in the direction of any facts on there or anyone who has ever used that site as a reference for anything that can't be googled in 2 seconds.

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Jaydogrules

Jaydogrules

Posted
Posted
You are using a website that no one ever cites or cares about with books that don't have retailer incentives. Spider-gwen has over 20 retailer incentives and they all count toward the Comichron print run. Why is this so hard to understand?

 

Dude, with this post, you just lost whatever little credibility you might have had, and are getting dangerously close to "troll" territory. Just a heads up.

(thumbs u

 

-J.

 

 

You are hilarious. This is the only info on that site that says anything about how they get the numbers they get:

 

Notes:

[1] Quantities of comics are estimates of what was printed and distributed world-wide; as most publishers do not disclose actual print run data these are just estimates and should be treated as such. Also the number that actually exist today will likely be smaller and, in some cases, much smaller.

 

Feel free to point me in the direction of any facts on there or anyone who has ever used that site as a reference for anything that can't be googled in 2 seconds.

 

Yup.

 

And the estimate for the Hughes variant is 2500 based on the same criteria, since we have now (re)- established that the print runs of variants are not disclosed by diamond to comichron or anyone else publicly. (thumbs u

 

-J.

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Jaydogrules

Jaydogrules

Posted
Posted
It's all over for me. If JJ Miller says Comichron is including variants in their numbers, that's good enough for me. I think we can move on to trying to calculate the 1:100 SG population.

 

...except he didn't say that, and there is nowhere in that article where you can quote him saying that.

 

Plus he is discussing Loot Crate books, which S G #1 was not.

 

You are also approaching "troll" status by the way. (thumbs u

 

-J.

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bababooey

bababooey

Posted
Posted
OK so going through to summarize this & try to make some sense of this and be the lone person agreeing with jaydogrules conclusion but disagreeing with what little reasoning he put forward. :insane:

 

The Diamond sales or ICV2/Comichron numbers are the total reported sales for all of NA through Diamond. These entities do not break out variants or "disclose/report" individual print runs for variants - this is the point that jaydog repeated over and over while misrepresenting it as the reasoning for them not being included.

 

Everyone agrees that blanks and other non-incentive variants ARE included in the total Diamond sales numbers.

 

The main debate hinges on incentive variants, Larry has confirmed that the incentives are supplied based only on regular covers ordered, I'd assume that includes 50/50 split cover runs but not the blank or other "order as many as you want" variants.

 

So in trying to find the reasoning behind jaydogrules' position, my question is simple. How much does the LCS pay for incentive variants?

I'm under the impression they are supplied based on quantities orders (ie- free of charge) - if that's the case then they may not be included as part of the sales total or reported numbers. They may be books created over and above the reported sales totals and if you go back to ICV2 the numbers relate to sales figures/revenue/market percentages etc...

 

The actual impact is minor, most of the time but it does probably demonstrate why 10-1 incentives are common as dirt :D

jaydog is saying: 100K print run (no non-incentive variants) and book has 25-1 & 100-1 - the straight up math is 4000 and 1000 respectively

everyone else is saying: 100K includes regular, 25-1 and 100-1

 

*you could probably use the store-by-store order threshold formula to reduce the presumed availability of higher ratio variants and then create some sliding scale based on total print run, the challenge in all of this is when there are non-incentive variants available for a particular issue

 

:fear:

 

That's a bit off.

 

JayDog is saying the 254K reported sales for SG 1 is just regular covers, so use the 1:100 ratio to arrive at 2500 copies.

 

The overwhelming view is that the 254K includes regular covers, blanks, Young's, and shop and specialty variant covers. Thus, the 1:100 is applied to a much smaller actual number of regular covers.

Right, my 100 K sample explains that showing how a book with only a 25-1 & a 100-1 incentive might prove him right. (about incentives not being reported as part of the print/sales runs)

I wasn't agreeing to his print run estimate for Spider-Gwen 1 (which has all those other variants) but I was trying to create a reality where the incentive variant numbers WEREN'T included in the totals reported by Diamond/ICV2/Comichron.

(shrug)

 

And they aren't. And my reasoning behind it is clear. Diamond does not disclose print runs of variants and comichron does not report international sales. Some have been straining to rope in loot crate numbers (irrelevant since this was not a loot crate book) and/or state "well diamond doesn't report the print runs of variants but maybe they do in bulk to comichron or something.".

 

Wrong.

 

NO VARIANT FIGURES ARE DISCLOSED BY DIAMOND.

 

Let me say it again:

 

NO VARIANT FIGURES ARE DISCLOSED BY DIAMOND.

 

Variant covers have their own unique print runs and they are not reported by diamond.

 

Loot crate is its own animal. Hence why it's got an asterisk every time. That means the book was not a standard distribution book. If Spider Gwen #1 was a loot crate book there might be a point. But it wasn't. So that point is moot.

 

NO VARIANT FIGURES ARE DISCLOSED BY DIAMOND.

 

The Hughes variant had AT LEAST 2500 copies printed and distributed with the MASSIVE print run of 250k+ copies of the regular cover printed, plus international. It is not rare.

 

Deal with it.

 

-J.

 

I don't care about the Gwen count but if you're saying there are 254K regular covers out there and all the rest are unaccounted for and not a reported revenue stream then go with that

 

My point is that a "sold" variant (store variant, blank, non-incentive) will cost a store money and WILL BE included in the Diamond/ICV2/Comichon numbers.

 

I'm just trying to figure out whether the incentive variants (provided to retailers based on regular cover sales) are or are not included in the sales figures being reported. I think I was agreeing with you in thinking that the incentive covers may not be included in Diamond's sales numbers.

 

I don't agree with how you are coming to that conclusion though but just keep repeating the same thing in caps without explanation - I'm sure you'll get everyone to see things your way.

(thumbs u

 

 

They aren't. I am not a fan of anecdotal evidence but I'm about to cite some here since that's all we really have (and it is better than the "no evidence" others are using).

 

Recalledcomics.com is a well-respected resource often cited on these boards as a reliable authority on matters pertaining to this discussion. The guy has been around for years, and lives and breathes this stuff. And he actually does have an inside lead on how to ballpark a retailer incentive variant print run.

 

You'll notice a pattern here:

 

ASM 678:

Domestic Print Run: 54,252

1:50 Retailer Incentive

 

Approximate Print Run of Variant: 800

 

http://www.recalledcomics.com/AmazingSpider-Man678MaryJaneVenom.php

 

ASM 700 (Ditko):

Domestic Print Run: 200,966

1:200 Retailer Incentive

 

Approximate Print Run of Variant: 900

 

http://www.recalledcomics.com/AmazingSpider-Man700DitkoVariant.php

 

EosV #2 (Land)

Domestic Print Run: 54,415

1:25 Retailer Incentive

 

Approximate Print Run of Variant: 2000

 

http://www.recalledcomics.com/EdgeOfSpider-Verse2-Variant.php

 

 

Notice how the print runs of the variants is very consistent with the sales figures quoted by comichron. Any slight differences in print orders attributed to smaller shops is usually quite handily offset by the international sale figures. This is indisputable.

 

That's because comichron only reports on the print run of the main cover. (thumbs u

 

-J.

OK so that wasn't hard, I looked up Spidey 700 and got my answer here on ICV2

Marvel sold over $1.6 million retail worth of Amazing Spider-Man #700 to comic stores in December, the top dollar comic in recent memory. Sell-in of over 200,000 copies was supported by an extensive variant program, including numerous "exceed orders," 1:100, 1:150, 1:200 variants, and at a $7.99 retail price, the dollars piled up fast. Extensive publicity about the storyline helped make this a major event book.
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500Club

500Club

Posted
Posted
It's all over for me. If JJ Miller says Comichron is including variants in their numbers, that's good enough for me. I think we can move on to trying to calculate the 1:100 SG population.

 

...except he didn't say that, and there is nowhere in that article where you can quote him saying that.

I CAN quote him:

 

'Star Wars #1 from Marvel was the chart-topper: the comic book is reported by its publisher to have sales over a million copies, helped by an unprecedented number of variant covers and boosted by special editions for Loot Crate and other channels'.

 

How did they get sales of over a million copies? An unprecedented number of variant covers AND the Loot Crate and other special editions.

 

And, yeah, SG isn't a Loot Crate book, but that's irrelevant. All we want to know is that Comichron includes 'unprecedented numbers of variant covers' and 'special editions' of 'other channels'. ( ie store variants) in their totals.

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500Club

500Club

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Posted
I don't see anyone "trolling" anyone in this thread. I do see people having a discussion, even if there are 3 or so people that are having most of the discussion.

 

:shrug:

 

 

 

-slym

:foryou:

 

Sorry, I know it's boring as hell, but it'd be nice to ballpark the long ratio variants numbers a bit better.

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Jaydogrules

Jaydogrules

Posted
Posted (edited)
It's all over for me. If JJ Miller says Comichron is including variants in their numbers, that's good enough for me. I think we can move on to trying to calculate the 1:100 SG population.

 

...except he didn't say that, and there is nowhere in that article where you can quote him saying that.

I CAN quote him:

 

'Star Wars #1 from Marvel was the chart-topper: the comic book is reported by its publisher to have sales over a million copies, helped by an unprecedented number of variant covers and boosted by special editions for Loot Crate and other channels'.

 

How did they get sales of over a million copies? An unprecedented number of variant covers AND the Loot Crate and other special editions.

 

And, yeah, SG isn't a Loot Crate book, but that's irrelevant. All we want to know is that Comichron includes 'unprecedented numbers of variant covers' and 'special editions' of 'other channels'. ( ie store variants) in their totals.

 

Referring you back to my earlier reply, and why you are still wrong:

 

And here you are still trying to compare a loot crate book to one that was not a loot crate book. So there's your first problem. And then secondly, the article states that in effect, including variants that sales of SW #1 were "over a million". Yet NOT counting variants, as reported by comichron, the sales of the regular cover were just 985,976 (but the Loot Crate order skews this number high, hence the asterisk).

 

After factoring in an undisclosed number of variants I'm sure the total sales were "over a million". But by how much? We don't know for sure. Why is that?

 

BECAUSE DIAMOND DOES NOT DISCLOSE THE PRINT RUNS OF VARIANTS.

 

lol

 

-J.

 

And PS: Nowhere in that article does anyone state that variants are ever included in comichron's totals either, by the way. Because they aren't.

Edited by Jaydogrules
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slym2none

slym2none

Posted
Posted
I don't see anyone "trolling" anyone in this thread. I do see people having a discussion, even if there are 3 or so people that are having most of the discussion.

 

:shrug:

:foryou:

 

Sorry, I know it's boring as hell, but it'd be nice to ballpark the long ratio variants numbers a bit better.

 

No worries. I am just trying to find where the troll is.

 

:)

 

 

 

-slym

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