Spider-Gwen - Jason Latour and Robbie Rodriguez 0

[Jaydogrules]

jaydog,

 

Variants are included in the print run.

but, Diamond does not break down the variant totals.

 

See here how in...

 

February 2014 numbers for Batwoman #28 - 20,672

March 2014 numbers for Batwoman #29 - 19,750

April 2014 numbers for Batwoman #30 - 19,204

May 2014 numbers for Batwoman #31 - 18,463

 

In June of 2014, thanks to the success of the 'Bombshells Variants', the first and still the biggest of their 'theme' variants, the numbers for DC's Batwoman #32 jumped to 33,538, because VARIANTS ARE INCLUDED IN THE PRINT RUN.

I personally sold 60 sets of it between the forum and eBay. Huge success.

 

The next month...

 

July 2014 numbers for Batwoman #33 - 23,922

 

The whole point of the variant 'theme' is to add to the print run of some of these dud books that aren't doing as well.

Here you can clearly see it.

 

To add to this, my Diamond rep specifically stated: "Diamond doesn't not break out individual variant numbers, but those variants are included in the print run. Anyone can call Diamond Distribution and talk to someone who can confirm this."

 

Plain and simple.

 

 

 

 

 

Chuck, thank you for weighing in. Now are you saying that retailer incentive variants are *included* in those print runs (as opposed to the other purchased variant types which I have already conceded may be included in the totals)?

 

And if you are saying that, do you believe that makes the comichron reported domestic sales totals a wholly insufficient means of ballparking the print run of a particular retailer incentive variant (after factoring in internationals)?

 

-J.

[Vikingreed]

jaydog,

 

Variants are included in the print run.

but, Diamond does not break down the variant totals.

 

See here how in...

 

February 2014 numbers for Batwoman #28 - 20,672

March 2014 numbers for Batwoman #29 - 19,750

April 2014 numbers for Batwoman #30 - 19,204

May 2014 numbers for Batwoman #31 - 18,463

 

In June of 2014, thanks to the success of the 'Bombshells Variants', the first and still the biggest of their 'theme' variants, the numbers for DC's Batwoman #32 jumped to 33,538, because VARIANTS ARE INCLUDED IN THE PRINT RUN.

I personally sold 60 sets of it between the forum and eBay. Huge success.

 

The next month...

 

July 2014 numbers for Batwoman #33 - 23,922

 

The whole point of the variant 'theme' is to add to the print run of some of these dud books that aren't doing as well.

Here you can clearly see it.

 

To add to this, my Diamond rep specifically stated: "Diamond doesn't not break out individual variant numbers, but those variants are included in the print run. Anyone can call Diamond Distribution and talk to someone who can confirm this."

 

Plain and simple.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for the informative post Chuck!

[gclicon]

jaydog,

 

Variants are included in the print run.

but, Diamond does not break down the variant totals.

 

See here how in...

 

February 2014 numbers for Batwoman #28 - 20,672

March 2014 numbers for Batwoman #29 - 19,750

April 2014 numbers for Batwoman #30 - 19,204

May 2014 numbers for Batwoman #31 - 18,463

 

In June of 2014, thanks to the success of the 'Bombshells Variants', the first and still the biggest of their 'theme' variants, the numbers for DC's Batwoman #32 jumped to 33,538, because VARIANTS ARE INCLUDED IN THE PRINT RUN.

I personally sold 60 sets of it between the forum and eBay. Huge success.

 

The next month...

 

July 2014 numbers for Batwoman #33 - 23,922

 

The whole point of the variant 'theme' is to add to the print run of some of these dud books that aren't doing as well.

Here you can clearly see it.

 

To add to this, my Diamond rep specifically stated: "Diamond doesn't not break out individual variant numbers, but those variants are included in the print run. Anyone can call Diamond Distribution and talk to someone who can confirm this."

 

Plain and simple.

 

 

 

 

 

Great info. Thanks.

[Prince Namor]

jaydog,

 

Variants are included in the print run.

but, Diamond does not break down the variant totals.

 

See here how in...

 

February 2014 numbers for Batwoman #28 - 20,672

March 2014 numbers for Batwoman #29 - 19,750

April 2014 numbers for Batwoman #30 - 19,204

May 2014 numbers for Batwoman #31 - 18,463

 

In June of 2014, thanks to the success of the 'Bombshells Variants', the first and still the biggest of their 'theme' variants, the numbers for DC's Batwoman #32 jumped to 33,538, because VARIANTS ARE INCLUDED IN THE PRINT RUN.

I personally sold 60 sets of it between the forum and eBay. Huge success.

 

The next month...

 

July 2014 numbers for Batwoman #33 - 23,922

 

The whole point of the variant 'theme' is to add to the print run of some of these dud books that aren't doing as well.

Here you can clearly see it.

 

To add to this, my Diamond rep specifically stated: "Diamond doesn't not break out individual variant numbers, but those variants are included in the print run. Anyone can call Diamond Distribution and talk to someone who can confirm this."

 

Plain and simple.

 

 

 

 

 

Chuck, thank you for weighing in. Now are you saying that retailer incentive variants are *included* in those print runs (as opposed to the other purchased variant types which I have already conceded may be included in the totals)?

 

And if you are saying that, do you believe that makes the comichron reported domestic sales totals a wholly insufficient means of ballparking the print run of a particular retailer incentive variant (after factoring in internationals)?

 

-J.

 

Retailer incentive variants (or in this case, NON-incentive variants) are included in the print run total. Diamond does not differentiate between a regular cover and a variant in their print run totals. If they DID - (by showing JUST the regular cover print run - then they actually WOULD be contributing to giving us information to figure out the variant print run total...see?

 

And yes, I think it makes it very difficult to figure out what an exact print run of a variant is. And I think the publishers prefer to have it that way.

[Prince Namor]

If you look at some more of these DC books during the months before they started this 'theme' month idea... it shows just how great of a concept it was...

 

March 2014 numbers for Catwoman #29 - 22,236

April 2014 numbers for Catwoman #30 - 20,968

May 2014 numbers for Catwoman #31 - 20,144

 

In June of 2014, thanks to the success of the 'Bombshells Variants', the first and still the biggest of their 'theme' variants, the numbers for DC's Catwoman #32 jumped to 33,694, because VARIANTS ARE INCLUDED IN THE PRINT RUN.

 

The next month...

 

July 2014 numbers for Catwoman #33 - 18,945

——————————————————

March 2014 numbers for Batgirl #29 - 33,223

April 2014 numbers for Batgirl #30 - 32,968

May 2014 numbers for Batgirl #31 - 31,552

 

In June of 2014, thanks to the success of the 'Bombshells Variants', the first and still the biggest of their 'theme' variants, the numbers for DC's Batgirl #32 jumped to 47,304, because VARIANTS ARE INCLUDED IN THE PRINT RUN.

 

The next month...

 

July 2014 numbers for Batgirl #33 - 37,186

 

——————————————————

Even Batman saw a bump from it...

 

March 2014 numbers for Batman #29 - 116,926

April 2014 numbers for Batman #30 - 108,926

May 2014 numbers for Batman #31 - 107,499

 

In June of 2014, thanks to the success of the 'Bombshells Variants', the first and still the biggest of their 'theme' variants, the numbers for DC's Batman #32 jumped to 130,077, because VARIANTS ARE INCLUDED IN THE PRINT RUN.

 

The next month...

 

July 2014 numbers for Batwoman #33 - 117,996

 

——————————————————

 

What we can see from this is that, as a non-incentive variant that had a popular ‘theme’, retailers ordered about 13-15,000 extra copies per title for this book. Huge success for DC. That month alone they probably sold 300,000+ more comic books than the month before.... no incentives... just order these cool variant covers that tie to together in a theme....

[Jaydogrules]

jaydog,

 

Variants are included in the print run.

but, Diamond does not break down the variant totals.

 

See here how in...

 

February 2014 numbers for Batwoman #28 - 20,672

March 2014 numbers for Batwoman #29 - 19,750

April 2014 numbers for Batwoman #30 - 19,204

May 2014 numbers for Batwoman #31 - 18,463

 

In June of 2014, thanks to the success of the 'Bombshells Variants', the first and still the biggest of their 'theme' variants, the numbers for DC's Batwoman #32 jumped to 33,538, because VARIANTS ARE INCLUDED IN THE PRINT RUN.

I personally sold 60 sets of it between the forum and eBay. Huge success.

 

The next month...

 

July 2014 numbers for Batwoman #33 - 23,922

 

The whole point of the variant 'theme' is to add to the print run of some of these dud books that aren't doing as well.

Here you can clearly see it.

 

To add to this, my Diamond rep specifically stated: "Diamond doesn't not break out individual variant numbers, but those variants are included in the print run. Anyone can call Diamond Distribution and talk to someone who can confirm this."

 

Plain and simple.

 

 

 

 

 

Chuck, thank you for weighing in. Now are you saying that retailer incentive variants are *included* in those print runs (as opposed to the other purchased variant types which I have already conceded may be included in the totals)?

 

And if you are saying that, do you believe that makes the comichron reported domestic sales totals a wholly insufficient means of ballparking the print run of a particular retailer incentive variant (after factoring in internationals)?

 

-J.

 

Retailer incentive variants (or in this case, NON-incentive variants) are included in the print run total. Diamond does not differentiate between a regular cover and a variant in their print run totals. If they DID - (by showing JUST the regular cover print run - then they actually WOULD be contributing to giving us information to figure out the variant print run total...see?

 

And yes, I think it makes it very difficult to figure out what an exact print run of a variant is. And I think the publishers prefer to have it that way.

 

Not exact print totals. But an estimate (which it can only ever be that due to the additional murky international reporting).

 

In other words, do you know of any other (or better way) to ballpark the print run of a retailer incentive variant cover, if not using comichron's domestic report, and then factoring in the inevitable, additional international numbers to get a *reasonable* idea of what is out there? "Reasonable" being the operative word. Since "nobody knowin' nothin'" doesn't seem like a likely scenario.

 

-J.

[bababooey]

The sales figures around the Spidey 666 debacle also proves the inclusion of sold variants in the figures.

Aug11: ASM #668 = 57,533...#09 for the month

Aug11: ASM #667 = 71,235...#06 for the month

Jul11: ASM #666 = 135,568...#01 for the month

Jul11: ASM #665 = 56,948...#16 for the month

Jun11: ASM #664 = 54,808...#10 for the month

 

Interesting enough, it also throws a wrench into the 667 low print run thesis as posted at Recalled Comics ASM 667 - although I've read after issue 666 there was some variant-burnout. Sure it was a 100-1 but the print discrepancy reported at the site is out of whack since he's erroneously comparing regular + store incentive variants to 667 which only had a regular cover & the 100-1.

 

The Amazing Spider-Man #666 "Spider-Island Prologue: The One And Only" was seriously hyped with it's #SpiderIsland hash tag and numerous variants, with an overall world-wide print run of around 150,000.

 

With the initial hype over, #667 seems to have taken a big hit with much lower pre-orders and a print run of around 80,000 world-wide (almost half that of #666!).

[Prince Namor]

jaydog,

 

Variants are included in the print run.

but, Diamond does not break down the variant totals.

 

See here how in...

 

February 2014 numbers for Batwoman #28 - 20,672

March 2014 numbers for Batwoman #29 - 19,750

April 2014 numbers for Batwoman #30 - 19,204

May 2014 numbers for Batwoman #31 - 18,463

 

In June of 2014, thanks to the success of the 'Bombshells Variants', the first and still the biggest of their 'theme' variants, the numbers for DC's Batwoman #32 jumped to 33,538, because VARIANTS ARE INCLUDED IN THE PRINT RUN.

I personally sold 60 sets of it between the forum and eBay. Huge success.

 

The next month...

 

July 2014 numbers for Batwoman #33 - 23,922

 

The whole point of the variant 'theme' is to add to the print run of some of these dud books that aren't doing as well.

Here you can clearly see it.

 

To add to this, my Diamond rep specifically stated: "Diamond doesn't not break out individual variant numbers, but those variants are included in the print run. Anyone can call Diamond Distribution and talk to someone who can confirm this."

 

Plain and simple.

 

 

 

 

 

Chuck, thank you for weighing in. Now are you saying that retailer incentive variants are *included* in those print runs (as opposed to the other purchased variant types which I have already conceded may be included in the totals)?

 

And if you are saying that, do you believe that makes the comichron reported domestic sales totals a wholly insufficient means of ballparking the print run of a particular retailer incentive variant (after factoring in internationals)?

 

-J.

 

Retailer incentive variants (or in this case, NON-incentive variants) are included in the print run total. Diamond does not differentiate between a regular cover and a variant in their print run totals. If they DID - (by showing JUST the regular cover print run - then they actually WOULD be contributing to giving us information to figure out the variant print run total...see?

 

And yes, I think it makes it very difficult to figure out what an exact print run of a variant is. And I think the publishers prefer to have it that way.

 

Not exact print totals. But an estimate (which it can only ever be that due to the additional murky international reporting).

 

In other words, do you know of any other (or better way) to ballpark the print run of a retailer incentive variant cover, if not using comichron's domestic report, and then factoring in the inevitable, additional international numbers to get a *reasonable* idea of what is out there? "Reasonable" being the operative word. Since "nobody knowin' nothin'" doesn't seem like a likely scenario.

 

-J.

 

Even using reverse math, 500 Club showed the flaw in using simple division, and truthfully, since it's something Diamond doesn't report, and the publishers don't report - honestly, the print run could be much, much higher than anyone says or thinks or believes.

 

Remember - the secondary market means NOTHING to a publisher - they make the money from the initial sale - so making sure they have enough of those books to go around is a good thing for them. And putting another 50-100 copies of it in the hands of Midtown Comics wouldn't shock me at all.

 

The other thing is... I wouldn't have the first clue what a books international numbers are... not even a ballpark number....

[Jaydogrules]

The sales figures around the Spidey 666 debacle also proves the inclusion of sold variants in the figures.

Aug11: ASM #668 = 57,533...#09 for the month

Aug11: ASM #667 = 71,235...#06 for the month

Jul11: ASM #666 = 135,568...#01 for the month

Jul11: ASM #665 = 56,948...#16 for the month

Jun11: ASM #664 = 54,808...#10 for the month

 

Interesting enough, it also throws a wrench into the 667 low print run thesis as posted at Recalled Comics ASM 667 - although I've read after issue 666 there was some variant-burnout. Sure it was a 100-1 but the print discrepancy reported at the site is out of whack.

 

The Amazing Spider-Man #666 "Spider-Island Prologue: The One And Only" was seriously hyped with it's #SpiderIsland hash tag and numerous variants, with an overall world-wide print run of around 150,000.

 

With the initial hype over, #667 seems to have taken a big hit with much lower pre-orders and a print run of around 80,000 world-wide (almost half that of #666!).

 

He doesn't say 667 had a "low print run". He says it had "much lower preorders" than 666, which it did.

 

Also, his print run estimates cited include international.

 

-J.

[Jaydogrules]

jaydog,

 

Variants are included in the print run.

but, Diamond does not break down the variant totals.

 

See here how in...

 

February 2014 numbers for Batwoman #28 - 20,672

March 2014 numbers for Batwoman #29 - 19,750

April 2014 numbers for Batwoman #30 - 19,204

May 2014 numbers for Batwoman #31 - 18,463

 

In June of 2014, thanks to the success of the 'Bombshells Variants', the first and still the biggest of their 'theme' variants, the numbers for DC's Batwoman #32 jumped to 33,538, because VARIANTS ARE INCLUDED IN THE PRINT RUN.

I personally sold 60 sets of it between the forum and eBay. Huge success.

 

The next month...

 

July 2014 numbers for Batwoman #33 - 23,922

 

The whole point of the variant 'theme' is to add to the print run of some of these dud books that aren't doing as well.

Here you can clearly see it.

 

To add to this, my Diamond rep specifically stated: "Diamond doesn't not break out individual variant numbers, but those variants are included in the print run. Anyone can call Diamond Distribution and talk to someone who can confirm this."

 

Plain and simple.

 

 

 

 

 

Chuck, thank you for weighing in. Now are you saying that retailer incentive variants are *included* in those print runs (as opposed to the other purchased variant types which I have already conceded may be included in the totals)?

 

And if you are saying that, do you believe that makes the comichron reported domestic sales totals a wholly insufficient means of ballparking the print run of a particular retailer incentive variant (after factoring in internationals)?

 

-J.

 

Retailer incentive variants (or in this case, NON-incentive variants) are included in the print run total. Diamond does not differentiate between a regular cover and a variant in their print run totals. If they DID - (by showing JUST the regular cover print run - then they actually WOULD be contributing to giving us information to figure out the variant print run total...see?

 

And yes, I think it makes it very difficult to figure out what an exact print run of a variant is. And I think the publishers prefer to have it that way.

 

Not exact print totals. But an estimate (which it can only ever be that due to the additional murky international reporting).

 

In other words, do you know of any other (or better way) to ballpark the print run of a retailer incentive variant cover, if not using comichron's domestic report, and then factoring in the inevitable, additional international numbers to get a *reasonable* idea of what is out there? "Reasonable" being the operative word. Since "nobody knowin' nothin'" doesn't seem like a likely scenario.

 

-J.

 

Even using reverse math, 500 Club showed the flaw in using simple division, and truthfully, since it's something Diamond doesn't report, and the publishers don't report - honestly, the print run could be much, much higher than anyone says or thinks or believes.

 

Remember - the secondary market means NOTHING to a publisher - they make the money from the initial sale - so making sure they have enough of those books to go around is a good thing for them. And putting another 50-100 copies of it in the hands of Midtown Comics wouldn't shock me at all.

 

The other thing is... I wouldn't have the first clue what a books international numbers are... not even a ballpark number....

 

It's funny you say this. I was actually going to make a similar point but decided not to because it is speculative in nature. But the import is well taken nonetheless.

 

Point being it's is a safe assumption that there are likely even MORE of this variant out there than even the most liberal of estimates, based on, if nothing else, the hype of the character and being a "#1".

 

-J.

[bababooey]

The sales figures around the Spidey 666 debacle also proves the inclusion of sold variants in the figures.

Aug11: ASM #668 = 57,533...#09 for the month

Aug11: ASM #667 = 71,235...#06 for the month

Jul11: ASM #666 = 135,568...#01 for the month

Jul11: ASM #665 = 56,948...#16 for the month

Jun11: ASM #664 = 54,808...#10 for the month

 

Interesting enough, it also throws a wrench into the 667 low print run thesis as posted at Recalled Comics ASM 667 - although I've read after issue 666 there was some variant-burnout. Sure it was a 100-1 but the print discrepancy reported at the site is out of whack.

 

The Amazing Spider-Man #666 "Spider-Island Prologue: The One And Only" was seriously hyped with it's #SpiderIsland hash tag and numerous variants, with an overall world-wide print run of around 150,000.

 

With the initial hype over, #667 seems to have taken a big hit with much lower pre-orders and a print run of around 80,000 world-wide (almost half that of #666!).

 

He doesn't say 667 had a "low print run". He says it had "much lower preorders" than 666, which it did.

 

Also, his print run estimates cited include international.

 

-J.

So part of the article is future tense talking about pre-orders being off by half when the difference he's pointing to has no impact on a 100-1 variant print run since the 666's were all store exclusives! 667's print run for regular covers (incentive driver) was almost 30% higher than the average regular cover print run numbers around that time.

Then he starts talking past tense citing "print run" when noodling his 500 down to 200 (with no explanation) Then goes on to quote 2014 CGC census numbers to back up his assessment of the 200-400 rarity!

Did you buy yours from him?

The Amazing Spider-Man #666 "Spider-Island Prologue: The One And Only" was seriously hyped with it's #SpiderIsland hash tag and numerous variants, with an overall world-wide print run of around 150,000.

 

With the initial hype over, #667 seems to have taken a big hit with much lower pre-orders and a print run of around 80,000 world-wide (almost half that of #666!).

The 1:100 Dellotto variant of #667 seems very difficult to get hold of; for a start it was a 1:100 dealer incentive variant but the numbers available seem much lower than expected hence it looks like dealers were just not ordering as many batches of 100 for #667. It is very hard to estimate numbers for the variant, normally it would be around 500, given the print run, but these seem far too scarce and there could be as little as 200 in circulation. In late May 2014, the CGC census had only 13 recorded gradings of these.

Amazingly, in April and May 2014, raw copies were going for over $900 each, making this variant a seriously expensive collectible.

[bababooey]

BTW I'm just being more of a *spoon* tonight for fun...trying to avoid the complaints about this thread being an accountants meeting or being boring etc..etc...etc...

 

 

I don't think that website is all you make it out to be though. And that ASM 667 variant you have is pretty hard to find.

[Jaydogrules]

BTW I'm just being more of a *spoon* tonight for fun...trying to avoid the complaints about this thread being an accountants meeting or being boring etc..etc...etc...

 

 

I don't think that website is all you make it out to be though. And that ASM 667 variant you have is pretty hard to find.

 

Fair enough.

 

But I don't make the site to be anything more than it is.... a free and useful resource for identifying and tracking down tough variants (particularly the ones with staying power). I have respect and appreciation for someone who is willing to devote that much time to one topic and cull the information together in one spot for easy use and reference. I also like the way he updates his information and numbers to keep the site as accurate as possible. (thumbs u

 

And yes the 667 Dell'otto is definitely the pride and joy of the modern ASM variant run.

 

-J.

 

 

[bababooey]

Good (thumbs u let's hand it back to team slippers for more pointy chin talk...

 

 

[Aweandlorder]

Imagine going to your LCS one day and seeing this

 

[slym2none]

A window display facing outside?

 

THINK OF THE SUN-FADE, FOR SLIPPERS' SAKE!!!

 

 

 

 

-slym

[Vikingreed]

I want that poster.

[Prince Namor]

Also, his print run estimates cited include international.

 

-J.

 

Where does he get his international numbers from?

 

According to icv2, ASM 666's print run was 135,568, meaning that only 15,000 more copies were printed for international... is it that low?

 

Hmmm... I need to make some calls....

[krighton]

Imagine going to your LCS one day and seeing this

 

 

the picture cut off the Silk display

[Jaydogrules]

 

After several phone calls to diamond this morning and getting bounced around to numerous different employees, finally getting through to the right person, and then waiting to be called back by that person who needed to talk to a different person, I have the answers:

 

YES, the sales figures reported by diamond does include the variants.

 

NO, they do not disclose the print runs of the individual variants.

 

NO, they do not report international sales figures.

 

SPLIT DECISION, on whether or not ballparking a variant print run from comichron is instructive. You can do it, but it is not reliable and MAY IN FACT GIVE YOU A NUMBER THAT IS TOO LOW (as Chuck said earlier.)

 

Larry, 500club, bababooey (and particularly) Chuck, et al are correct about that. (And so is the boardie who claimed there are only 500 copies of the Hughes variant, though he is still very wrong about that ).

 

Apologies to the gang for arguing so snarkily at times my INCORRECT position on variant disclosure.

 

HOWEVER......based on the totality of the information and other comparable variants, I stand by my estimation of a 2500+ print run for the Hughes.

 

-J.