Next CLINK auction is starting to stack up some interesting pieces

[stinkininkin]

It's a fantastic, historic, memorable Spider-Man cover from the 'Amazing' title drawn by two artists both of whom are legends in the business (yes, 30 years later Jr. is a legitimate legend in his own right)

 

Is it really that big a surprise that it appears to be on track to join the $100k club?

 

Read the new description. Josh Nathanson of Clink tripped the reserve himself.

 

Scott

 

 

 

[vodou]

It's a fantastic, historic, memorable Spider-Man cover from the 'Amazing' title drawn by two artists both of whom are legends in the business (yes, 30 years later Jr. is a legitimate legend in his own right)

 

Is it really that big a surprise that it appears to be on track to join the $100k club?

 

Read the new description. Josh Nathanson of Clink tripped the reserve himself.

 

Scott

 

Not to take anything away from the piece, the consignor, etc., but everyone should remember that Josh gets an automatic 10% discount because his reserve busting bid pushes the consignment fee back to himself (or the organization, if you prefer).

 

And to be fair, the same with every piece Jim Halperin has added to his personal collection from Heritage...except for him it's a 30% savings

 

All of this assuming standard premiums are in place, not always the case on key consignments of course.

[jjonahjameson1]

It's a fantastic, historic, memorable Spider-Man cover from the 'Amazing' title drawn by two artists both of whom are legends in the business (yes, 30 years later Jr. is a legitimate legend in his own right)

 

Is it really that big a surprise that it appears to be on track to join the $100k club?

 

Actually, yes, it is surprising.

[delekkerste]

It's a fantastic, historic, memorable Spider-Man cover from the 'Amazing' title drawn by two artists both of whom are legends in the business (yes, 30 years later Jr. is a legitimate legend in his own right)

 

Is it really that big a surprise that it appears to be on track to join the $100k club?

 

Read the new description. Josh Nathanson of Clink tripped the reserve himself.

 

Scott

 

Interesting. I wonder if the reserve was set high enough and if people like Josh enough to leave it be the rest of the way, or if this emboldens someone to bid higher now knowing that it comes with the protection of a $95K underbid (the "Nathanson Put" as it were).

[Doc Joe]

Weird that he did not negotiate a straight up sale price when it came to them pre-auction

 

I must say its one of the things I like about ComicLink - they do not bid on their own auction material (but can buy stuff off the exchange if listed there)

 

Makes me a bit nervous with HA especially if in discussions with them I have said what range I might bid to....

 

 

[Bird]

Yeah, I like comiclink a lot but this "put aside ethics when we want" stance bothers me a great deal. That is when ethical rules apply; they are meaningless in situations no one cares about, we only have them for situations like this. So when they want something "bad enough", all rules are off and exceptions are made arbitrarily as desired.

[Solar]

Yeah, I like comiclink a lot but this "put aside ethics when we want" stance bothers me a great deal. That is when ethical rules apply; they are meaningless in situations no one cares about, we only have them for situations like this. So when they want something "bad enough", all rules are off and exceptions are made arbitrarily as desired.

 

I think their no bidding policy is more to assuage collector's fears of shill bidding by the auction house. Josh is being 100% transparent about his bid and the reason for it.

[Bronty]

I don't have an issue with it myself. Firstly I'm not bidding so it doesn't really affect me but to me for it to be fair I want to know what is going on, and they've disclosed that here.

[Matches_Malone]

I appreciate the full disclosure, however as stated by Josh " I am going to make an exception here and bid on this piece, but with full disclosure. My one and only bid is at the reserve of $95,000. I will not be placing an additional bid. If anyone wants to outbid me, go for it knowing that I will not be placing further bids against you."

 

Who's to say that he will make another exception and bid again if he gets outbid. You make an exception the first time, why not do it the second time?

[Bird]

well, I won't be the lone voice in he wilderness on this but he could have easily accomplished the same thing by waiting and buying if it failed to meet reserve. You can be the auctioneer or the buyer, not both. Inside information (knowledge of reserve, discounted fees, discussion that went into the waiving of this policy in this case, ability to place info in the item description when you bid!) certainly is relevant here as well. Instead we have an ethical policy set aside arbitrarily because someone wants the item, really wants it I guess. It is not just another bid.

 

Look, I like Josh and Doug, the two gentlemen I have dealt with personally at Clink. This is not about anyone being a bad guy, but I think this was a bad decision and it erodes my confidence in them just a bit.

 

Ok, like I said - no need for me to get nuts about this. I'm done on this one.

[J.Sid]

I agree with Sean, but I do like the idea that the bid was placed well in advance of the end of the auction. During the "price discovery" phase.

 

If the bid had been placed a day before auction's end, it might have seemed a bit more sketchy.

[Bronty]

It's true that it could have been a way to secure the overall consignment from this consignor. A price guarantee if you will. If there are no other bids Josh buys a piece he likes anyways and guaranteeing this piece secures the other three from the same consign or as well. That kind of a strategy would be consistent with a 'one and only' public bid.

 

I still don't care and I have no idea if this is in fact the case - but yes, I agree that if he just wanted to buy it with no other motive he could have just waited for it to end reserve not met . It's certainly not changing my opinion on comiclink though aid happily deal with them anytime

[vodou]

I agree with Sean, but I do like the idea that the bid was placed well in advance of the end of the auction. During the "price discovery" phase.

 

If the bid had been placed a day before auction's end, it might have seemed a bit more sketchy.

Or is the timing a case of there being concern, with the reserve still not tripped, that potential bid money may have moved over to Heritage instead since there's an overlap of sales this week? Now the reserve is revealed with -so he says- no further competition from that same corner. May have the effect of re-attracting bidders that were moving away from Clink toward Heritage strategy?

 

None of this is unprecedented, how Heritage works in Texas, things that aren't allowed in NY, with the big auction houses doing chandelier bids for decades, et al...but it's a bit unsavory nonetheless. Actually, the auction business is scandal-ridden with the high end making headlines every several years (Alfred Taubman, anyone?) Eventually there will be some scandal, somewhere, as comics/comic art climb the price ladder. This ain't it though.

[J.Sid]

I've found Reserves are weird in comic art auctions....

 

It seems like collectors like to throw in their bids early, thus often passing the reserve sometimes weeks before the auction's end.

 

It seems like this type of bidding behavior is much different in the illustration and fine art auctions (the only other auctions I pay any attention to, even if it's not that closely) where a price on a piece will often sit with little-to-no action at 1/10th its final value up until just before the auction's end.

 

 

Anyone else? Anyone follow stamps or coins notice this? slabbed comic book auctions?

[jimjum12]

Yeah, I like comiclink a lot but this "put aside ethics when we want" stance bothers me a great deal. That is when ethical rules apply; they are meaningless in situations no one cares about, we only have them for situations like this. So when they want something "bad enough", all rules are off and exceptions are made arbitrarily as desired.

 

I think their no bidding policy is more to assuage collector's fears of shill bidding by the auction house. Josh is being 100% transparent about his bid and the reason for it.

 

.... that's how I see it too. He probably just really wants it..... and it's no secret JN is a Spidey fan. GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[delekkerste]

Not to take anything away from the piece, the consignor, etc., but everyone should remember that Josh gets an automatic 10% discount because his reserve busting bid pushes the consignment fee back to himself (or the organization, if you prefer).

 

And to be fair, the same with every piece Jim Halperin has added to his personal collection from Heritage...except for him it's a 30% savings

 

All of this assuming standard premiums are in place, not always the case on key consignments of course.

 

Regarding Halperin and Heritage, I think it's safe to say that the (higher-end) consignments he tends to bid on almost assuredly have no seller's commission, and very often are getting a piece of the buyer's premium. Even just waiving the seller's commission, it doesn't work out to the 19.5-20% savings people think, because the math works out to 1/1.195-1 = 16.3%. Plus, I think it's very likely that he does pay the buyer's premium (it wouldn't be fair to the other partners & investors if he wasn't), which means he's only getting a portion of that BP effectively rebated to him (the amount commensurate with his ownership interest in Heritage - tax-effected if you want to get nit-picky about it). So, in the end, I suspect that his true cost advantage is probably more along the lines of low-to-mid single digits.

 

That said, the bigger issue for me is that it's disheartening when you're the underbidder on a piece that Jim wins. Heritage might argue that others should feel free to outbid him, but, c'mon, the guy has more firepower behind him than just about anyone in the hobby, so are these pieces that he's strongly going after really available to their clientele? I'm generally a big fan and defender of Heritage, but employee bidding on their own auctions still rankles me.

 

Anyway, I have mixed feelings about Josh's involvement with the ASM #238. Obviously, I'd prefer that principals of ComicLink not bid on their own auctions. But, I guess in the end, I'm more OK with Josh's stance on the ASM #238 than not, because at least the piece is potentially available to someone who really wants it (note: I wasn't going for it before, and I'm certainly not going for it now at these levels). In my mind, it would have been worse if Josh had just bought it directly from the consignor and given no one else a chance at it. And, he's been up front about it, put in his best bid and won't bid further against his clients. In the end, I think it's a better outcome than some of the other alternatives.

[jimjum12]

.... the last time I called Clink and needed to ask a representative about some possible time payments, it was Josh who took the call..... it's hard for me to argue with that. He's A-1 in my book. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

 

[alxjhnsn]

it's disheartening when you're the underbidder on a piece that Jim wins. Heritage might argue that others should feel free to outbid him, but, c'mon, the guy has more firepower behind him than just about anyone in the hobby

From where I sit (very low 4 figures once or twice a year), that seems to apply to lots of folks. I would imagine that there is an even larger pool lower than me that feels the same way about me.

 

Basically, there's always someone with more money, more speed, more strength, more smarts, or a prettier girlfriend. Just the way it is and that's not a reason to be disheartened. It might just as easily be a reasons to strive and save.

[NelsonAI]

The issue is about ethics, not about how much money someone can afford to bid.

 

From my understanding, the cover was originally a no reserve auction item. Jjeanius confirms this on page 2 of this very thread. It seems strange that his other consignments have no reserve.

 

It almost seems like a guarantee of $100K was made to the consignor. Rather than wait for the auction to end, CL decided to offset their risk by "placing" a bid now hoping someone else will in fact bid $100K and let them off the hook.

 

Cheers!

N.

[delekkerste]

From where I sit (very low 4 figures once or twice a year), that seems to apply to lots of folks. I would imagine that there is an even larger pool lower than me that feels the same way about me.

 

Basically, there's always someone with more money, more speed, more strength, more smarts, or a prettier girlfriend. Just the way it is and that's not a reason to be disheartened. It might just as easily be a reasons to strive and save.

 

True, but those other people aren't the head of the auction house that's offering the piece for sale. And therein lies the difference.