Next CLINK auction is starting to stack up some interesting pieces

[Doc Joe]

 

How do we know the ten-day-early $100k bid wasn't somehow arranged after the backlash started as a means to take the heat off? Even if a list member came forward and claimed it, it still leaves questions.

 

 

yup...its a huge conspiracy....or is it just...

 

 

 

Is there really anything left here? If you don't trust Clink then don't bid or consign. Vote with your stuff and wallet. I have with certain single man auction sites...never going there again.

 

Josh did more than others do, and it looks like he is being out bid so...someone clearly wanted it more than 95K.

[thethedew]

I plan on dishing out plenty of punishment bids on Gene during the Comiclink auction since he only spent 1/3 of his Heritage budget.

 

'Punishment bids?'

 

 

I realize you're kidding around, but does anyone actually even consider such a thing?

[jimjum12]

I plan on dishing out plenty of punishment bids on Gene during the Comiclink auction since he only spent 1/3 of his Heritage budget.

 

'Punishment bids?'

 

 

I realize you're kidding around, but does anyone actually even consider such a thing?

 

Unfortunately, yes..... some do. OCD Collectors are prone to anger management issues and are not graceful losers. GOD BLESS.....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[J.Sid]

 

How do we know the ten-day-early $100k bid wasn't somehow arranged after the backlash started as a means to take the heat off? Even if a list member came forward and claimed it, it still leaves questions.

 

 

yup...its a huge conspiracy....or is it just...

 

 

 

Is there really anything left here? If you don't trust Clink then don't bid or consign. Vote with your stuff and wallet. I have with certain single man auction sites...never going there again.

 

Josh did more than others do, and it looks like he is being out bid so...someone clearly wanted it more than 95K.

 

Why place a serious ($100k) bid this far in advance? Marker bid? Price discovery?

 

Just asking questions....

[Koa]

Do you understand that Josh offered a guarantee on this auction, and it never would have sold below $95k?

 

Whether or not he bumped it up to reserve, it would NOT have sold for less.

 

So, yeah, he could have put a $100k reserve rather than bidding on it at $95k. End result is the same: Either someone bids $100k and the auction is live, or it fails to hit reserve and Josh buys it @ $95k. It seems to me that Josh is actually giving potential bidders more information to go on than they would have normally (i.e., not knowing what the reserve might be, etc). As a bidder, I think I would actually prefer that.

 

I understand but don't see how that matters.

 

Anyway, I'm surprised at the wild west nature of auction houses in general. Neighborhood bookies seem to have more regulation.

 

At the end of the day perception matters. Perception causes lots of damage to markets. to institutions. High five and six figure auctions have moved the bar in the hobby and are fueling lots of excitement on all levels of collecting. That the owners and employees of auction houses are the competition and possibly driving forces behind the record auction prices...well, I guess it's possible someone who didn't own a auction house really won one of these record setting auctions.

 

[Junkdrawer]

Its a shame that Josh will not own this cover now, that plan may have backfired.

[vodou]

Its a shame that Josh will not own this cover now, that plan may have backfired.

Unless you're close to Josh and have seen him do the right thing in many tough personal situations, you have no idea what "the plan" is and whether it will be a success or failure.

 

Neither do I. It's all speculation.

 

I'm still wondering what % Josh/CL gets in consideration against their guarantee of $95k. If this was Christie's or Sotheby's, typically 50%.

[Bird]

Its a shame that Josh will not own this cover now, that plan may have backfired.

Unless you're close to Josh and have seen him do the right thing in many tough personal situations, you have no idea what "the plan" is and whether it will be a success or failure.

 

Neither do I. It's all speculation.

 

I'm still wondering what % Josh/CL gets in consideration against their guarantee of $95k. If this was Christie's or Sotheby's, typically 50%.

 

Yeah, the life of a 3rd party guaranteor (what a tough word to spell) can be lucrative. I asked Clink about filling that role (on a limited basis if I could bring in material that would not otherwise be consigned) at a comic art con and was told they did not use guaranteors. maybe that changed.

 

I thought 3rd party Gs got 10% above the guarantee, but 50% is a whole other ballgame! I know very little about this and it is hard to find info on the internet, at least if you have mild attention deficit!

[vodou]

"Guarantor"

 

50% above guarantee is typical but certainly unique negotiations can/will be made to make the consignment happen. There's also the tacit assumption that three other things are happening:

 

1. No baselines seller's fee.

2. Guarantee number alone is rich enough for the consignor to play ball. He's shifted all risk to The House.

3. Because of #2, giving up 50% over isn't really painful.

 

And, naturally, for very desirable lots and estates all aspects of bringing the piece to market are negotiable, even handling/freight for non-local consignors, advances, special consideration and access toward future transactions, arranging industry jobs for shiftless relatives, etc etc etc.

 

Again, ex-employees, curators and heirs provide much good reading on this subject. Not only recent books either, great old stuff hiding in local libraries. The sixties and seventies...very "fun" decades for wheeling and dealing art!

[Bird]

Thanks. That helps.

[NelsonAI]

From my perspective, JN never had an interest in owning the cover for his personal collection. He made the guarantee to get the consignment. There was no OMG - that's my grail moment.

 

He is breathing easier now that there is a higher bid.

 

Cheers!

N.

 

[Terry Doyle]

From my perspective, JN never had an interest in owning the cover for his personal collection . . . He is breathing easier now that there is a higher bid.

 

 

What I was thinking.

[J.Sid]

Would we view this differently if they simply amended their official policy to read:

 

• Final employee bids must be made one week in advance of auction's end.

• Employee bids are not "secret."

 

[Brian Peck]

That a great idea for a policy. Should apply to HA, employees can not be part of the live bidding. Only internet bid, no Heritage Live. That is fair.

[vodou]

That a great idea for a policy. Should apply to HA, employees can not be part of the live bidding. Only internet bid, no Heritage Live. That is fair.

Sure but is Jim an "employee" or a partner

[JadeGiant]

I don’t play in the deep end of this pool (not in the market for 100k pages) but I have read this thread and I am fascinated by the discussion. On the topic of an auction house bidding on their own auctions, I can’t believe they would even do it. I would think their own policy to NOT do it would be reason enough that it wouldn’t even be a topic of conversation. The policy was written for a good reason – how does this case warrant breaking your own rule? I would think any positive gains from this decision would be outweighed by the possible erosion of consumer confidence and trust in your future auctions. How would it have worked if the 95k bid wasn’t placed by the auction house and the only other bidder was at 85k? Does the house write a 10K check? I can’t see how this can’t be seen as a conflict of interest. Seems like a short-sighted and bad business decision.

[jbud73]

It's fine, him offering this 95k guarantee. He is telling the guy "Comic Link will buy this piece for 95k if no one bids that much". So to give others a chance he put that price on it right away. If no one thought it was worth more then 60-70k, then huzzah Josh bought it at 30% over market value and would be sk-rooed. He was willing to take that chance, and it turns out he wont be winning it. No harm no foul.

 

But this does raise an interesting point. Does anyone have a problem with Josh guaranteeing this piece will sell for 95k? That the owner would get that no matter what even if Comiclink has to pay that? Or do you think there should never be any price guarantees?

 

 

These discussions, which I still think are important, used to fascinate me, however now they baffle me. There are underlying assumptions here and the most prevalent is that somehow, some way the OA auction houses and the auctions themselves are equitable. That some form of regulation exists and we as bidders are owed this and some sort of transparency in the process.

 

Far be it from me to try and burst anyone's bubble here, but that is simply not the case, its not even close to the case. Considering the fact that SHILLING has been established at the Auction houses (ALL OF THEM) and that this is a niche, unregulated market, there is only one rule that you should expect - THERE ARE NO RULES, so place an asterisk next to everything.

 

IMO Josh did what he did because at the level of the piece the market is small and being forthright out weighed the potential bad press to the contrary. Confidence at the top end is a very important asset, which is the only reason the information is being presented. Applaud this transparency, but do not for a moment concede that it in anyway makes comiclink a more regulated, or self regulated institution.

 

Do dealers, collectors even, bid on pieces to insulate the OA market ..... yes they do. Auction houses do the same thing, the only difference in this instance was a calculated decision to identify up front what was done regarding implementing a guarantee to the consignor.

 

[jbud73]

I plan on dishing out plenty of punishment bids on Gene during the Comiclink auction since he only spent 1/3 of his Heritage budget.

 

 

I thought Gene was done buying comic art, lest I shudder to think how much is required to punish bid him.

[Rodey]

Oh man. Someone posted a page from New Warriors #1!! ARGHHHAAAHHHH

 

*Insert Mephisto joke here*

[John C.-migration]

Does this seem fishy to you:

 

The auction with the highest number bids at the current Comiclink auction is this average Jack Kirby Captain America cover?

 

http://goo.gl/4304mu

 

 

That's right-- more bids than the Fantastic Four #166 cover, or the Avengers #74 cover. And a higher current price to boot!

 

Now, checkout the bidding history:

 

http://goo.gl/jGFtch

 

It met the reserve at $38,000 the day after the reserve was posted.

 

Recall that the Captain America #212 cover, with Cap fighting the Red Skull, sold for $28,000 on Comiclink in 2013, and the Captain America #211 cover with Arnim Zola didn't even make it to $20,000.

 

So now someone's willing to pay $30+ for a run-of-the-mill Captain America cover?

 

I don't get it.