• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Where in the world was the Quality Control at CGC???
44 44

Started by Wally's Comics,

6,124 posts in this topic

StillOnly25Cents

StillOnly25Cents

Posted
Posted (edited)

still quite frosted about the results of my submission as noted in the following post 

 

Let me ask those of you here much wiser than me regarding these matters

Is it more likely CCS caused the cover misalignment during pressing or CGC during encapsulation and would that have even negatively effected the grade?

I looked up issue 340 SS books listed on ebay at 8.0 and higher and in every instance even with those 9.0 and higher (don’t think I bothered with 9.8) there were grader notes 

here is an 8.0 (with grader notes) via ebay with major flaws on the back alone

https://www.ebay.com/itm/304738160716?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=CliAiI04TDW&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=lwptSYthT-6&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

I just can’t fathom how my book got a 8.0 and there seems to be no accountability

@CGC Mike

Edited by StillOnly25Cents
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ChrispyC66

ChrispyC66

Posted
Posted
On 2/12/2023 at 11:00 PM, Doomed said:

This is not uncommon for double cover books with interior/hidden damage. Basically the book would've graded 9.0 but you have to grade the entire book and this caused the 9.0 to drop to an 8.0. 

They're not, you just weren't aware of it. 

Screenshot_20230212-230647_Chrome.thumb.jpg.1575093ab9aa0fd3a7c09286f3a5e55c.jpg

Nope. CGC didn’t follow their own process when grading this double cover. The process is to grade each cover and put that on the label and list the grades in the notes, in this case a 7.0/9.0. Then continue grading the rest of the book and determine if any internal flaws exist that would lower the OVERALL grade NOT the cover grades.

Watch this video if you are unclear about it. 

 

The grade of the covers shouldn’t have been changed even if the Finalizer felt the book was an 8.0.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
media_junkie

media_junkie

Posted
Posted

The thing I find fishy is that the "Finalizer" went in and changed the grader notes after the book was in the hands of the customer.  Shouldn't the "Finalizer" finalize and record notes before the book has left the company property?  This is straight up someone at CGC playing the CYA game.  Horrible, horrible business practice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Administrator
CGC Mike

CGC Mike

Posted
  • Administrator
Posted
On 2/12/2023 at 10:44 PM, ChrispyC66 said:

Warning - This is a long post! However, please read.
I’m posting this for a friend. He doesn’t frequent these boards but he asked me to tell his story so here goes…

My friend John (not his real name) recently submitted a very nice double cover copy of Batman 55 to CGC for grading and encapsulation. He was disappointed with the resulting grade and follow-up actions from CGC. 

First problem; The book was submitted as a walkthrough submission and John used $6,000 for the FMV on the submission form but he said the system changed it to $10k. 

I asked him about this and he said he was unable to change it back. He finished the order because he needed to send the form to the presser.  He figured he could change it manually on the form after the cleaning and pressing was completed.  After the book was dry cleaned and pressed he had the book sent to CGC with the FMV updated to $6k.

1/25 - Batman 55 is delivered to CGC.

1/26 - CGC receives the book into their system at SFG

2/02 (Thur.) - CGC posted the grade, the status changed to shipped. 

Second problem; The grade didn’t match the grader notes. The notes stated the first cover was 7.0 and the interior cover was 9.0 BUT the book grade was 8.0. What? 
EF81B467-5E4F-4266-AE69-8D998E2268BC.jpeg.5a3db941b56b3b169ad2c90564d2d4ad.jpeg

At 12:00 John called and spoke to CS for almost 15 minutes.  He asked the CS rep. to pull the book from shipping before it leaves the building.  He wanted to discuss the difference between the grader notes and the label and would rather CGC hold it until this was figured out. The CS rep. told hi. it was too late and that the book already shipped. 

John asked for clarification concerning the different cover grades shown in the grader notes versus the posted grade in the census. The rep. said someone would call him back by the end of this day (Thurs.) No one called.

2/03 (Fri.) John called at 11:30 and spoke to a different CS rep. for over 13 minutes explaining everything over again.  This CS rep. said someone would get back to him by the end of the day (Fri.) but if they didn’t, then they would contact him first thing Monday morning.  No one called back on Friday. 

2/04 (Sat.) The book arrives with 8.0 grade and first cover grade 7.5 and inner cover grade 8.0.

4CDBBE98-1E42-4D18-8899-FB0A9FFA03BC.thumb.jpeg.0769f56b6819dd724871c2d18e128545.jpeg

F03B772A-2B50-409D-A4FB-D61F9A10CA80.thumb.jpeg.3ddfc7ce6309c2595370f4725c9d39fa.jpeg

2/06 (Mon.) After not receiving a phone call as promised on Thursday, Friday or “first thing” Monday morning, John called CS again at 12:20 and was put on hold for a few minutes before selecting the call-back option. At 12:33, a CS rep. called John back, pulled up his account, said everything looks fine, and asked what was the problem. He logged into his account and saw that the first grader note had been changed from 7.0/9.0 to 7.5/8.0.  John explained that the grader note had been changed after his repeated calls and among all the other questions he had asked about in his customer complaint and hadn’t received one answer he wanted to know who changed the grader notes and why?

A0E627C1-182A-4B3F-B2A2-57A1FFC9798A.thumb.jpeg.2cc601e43ca37ee41a613d003398b151.jpeg

Several hours later, he received an email, not a phone call response:

Name removed (Certified Collectibles Group) <support@collectiblesgroupsupport.zendesk.com>

To: John

Mon, Feb 6 at 5:01 PM

Hello John,

Thank you for your patience will I investigated your submission order with our CGC Verification department. I was advised that grades are not final until the finalizer signs off on it.  We have multiple graders who review the book and each grader might give it a different grade based on their personal opinion.  It is the finalizer's job to review those grades and the book and then make a determination on the final grade. We do apologize for any inconvenience as the note was left in error and should not have been visible on the customer facing side. The grade is correct as it is and it has been updated in the system.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

--

Customer Service

Certified Collectibles Group

p. 800-642-2646 | f. 941-360-2553

collectiblesgroup.com

It was nice of CS to ask if John had any questions.  He does, Many.  

  1. How many graders agreed with the 9.0 cover grade before The Finalizer made their determination on the final book grade?
  2. Why is the public led to believe that the policy at CGC is to have an agreed upon concensus to determine the grade of a book when in actuality, The Finalizer determines the final grade?
  3. He was told It is CGC policy that differing opinions to be noted by different graders.  Those notes are not for the general public to see.  Those notes are for internal use and future reference.  Because John asked for clarification, someone at CGC changed the original cover grades in the grader notes.  Now, if John wants to dispute this further there is no public record of any graders considering this book’s inner cover to be a 9.0.  AND if there was more than one grader who agreed before the Finalizer stepped in, then presumably, those records have been eliminated from their system. John’s opinion is that the grades shown in the original notes was the graders consensus for the cover grades and was changed by the Finalizer. If it’s CGC policy to hide certain grader notes (cover grades), but not others (details concerning condition); he pointed out that he could see the cover grades in the notes; so why were they changed after the book shipped and why are they still showing?  
  4. He explained this to two different customer service people.  Why would CGC change the cover grades in the system and then call him back and ask what the problem is? Did nobody record his complaints?
  5. Is it the Finalizer’s honest opinion that the outer cover and the inner cover are only a half point different from each other and a full point lower than one of the graders? 
  6. Why was John charged 3% of $10k to grade the book? That value is closer to the 9.0 grade than the 8.0 grade. 
  7. Did CGC determine the value to charge him before The Finalizer changed the grade from 9.0 to 8.0?

It would have been nice if a CGC representative would have called John  back when they originally said they would, and explain what was going on, instead of leaving him hanging with a bunch of unanswered questions. 

I  brought this up to management, and was given this to post.

"The pregrader entered their choice for both cover grades, and the finalizer chose different grades, but did not change/delete the pregrader grades in the notes.

The finalizer makes the final decision, so after customer service alerted the team, the finalizer made the fix in the grader notes to match the label text.

The difference of grades between two covers of a double cover book could be anything. They are both graded independently based on the defects they exhibit."

Also, we will adjust the fee from 10K back to 6K.  Just PM John's submission number, and customer id number to me.

Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ChrispyC66

ChrispyC66

Posted
Posted
On 2/13/2023 at 8:33 PM, CGC Mike said:

I  brought this up to management, and was given this to post.

"The pregrader entered their choice for both cover grades, and the finalizer chose different grades, but did not change/delete the pregrader grades in the notes.

The finalizer makes the final decision, so after customer service alerted the team, the finalizer made the fix in the grader notes to match the label text.

The difference of grades between two covers of a double cover book could be anything. They are both graded independently based on the defects they exhibit."

Also, we will adjust the fee from 10K back to 6K.  Just PM John's submission number, and customer id number to me.

Mike

Thanks Mike, I appreciate you taking it to management.
 

I’ll send you the requested information.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Gaard

Gaard

Posted
Posted (edited)

And if your friend hadn't called?

 

I wonder how common it is to have incorrect data entered into the label system?

 

Of course, we can only take CGC's word that this was only an "oops", instead of a CYA scenario.

Edited by Gaard
Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Administrator
CGC Mike

CGC Mike

Posted
  • Administrator
Posted
On 2/13/2023 at 9:05 PM, StillOnly25Cents said:
On 2/13/2023 at 8:46 PM, CGC Mike said:

Let me see if I can find out anything about the book.

thanks Mike!

I spoke with a grader, and there are no internal notes for this book.  He requested additional pics, and we might be able to point something out to you.  If you could send me some more pics, that would be great.

Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Popular Post
The Lions Den

The Lions Den

Posted
  • Popular Post
Posted
On 12/19/2022 at 2:43 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

I just want these 2 slabs fixed so I can sell off the remainder of my CGC books.  Company is nothing but disappointment.   I was having a much more enjoyable time collecting raw.

I occasionally like to remind myself that there was once a time when collecting unslabbed, unpressed, unrestored, unqualified, unsigned books was a thing...  :cloud9:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
grendelbo

grendelbo

Posted
Posted
On 2/14/2023 at 10:37 AM, The Lions Den said:

I occasionally like to remind myself that there was once a time when collecting unslabbed, unpressed, unrestored, unqualified, unsigned books was a thing...  :cloud9:

:cheers:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
44 44
Go to topic listing