ComicConnect Event Auction!

[thunsicker]

I think it's a quality control error and the label is missing the purple stripe. The notes in capital letters suggests it was meant for a yellow/purple label.

 

I guess it's too much to hope that they finally did a head-smack and said "wait, how can something be restored when it's the lowest possible grade?"

 

But I thought NG was the lowest grade...

[Red84]

My books arrived from CC today.

[Jaydogrules]

My books arrived from CC today.

 

That's one stacked sig line! (thumbs u

 

-J.

[Gotham Kid]

My books arrived from CC today.

 

That's one stacked sig line! (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

Filled with GA goodness.

[Red84]

My books arrived from CC today.

 

That's one stacked sig line! (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

All my favorites and almost my entire collection.

[Chicago Boy]

It's like a game of Tetrus! After the initial high wears off you have to go back to the Tec 38 being the largest in the sig line-- No comparison between Tec 38 and Action 23 Major congrats!

[Jaydogrules]

It's like a game of Tetrus! After the initial high wears off you have to go back to the Tec 38 being the largest in the sig line-- No comparison between Tec 38 and Action 23 Major congrats!

 

Fist sidekick versus first arch villain. To-may-toe, to-mah-toe. And he has both. Awesome stuff Red.

 

-J.

[Red84]

It's like a game of Tetrus! After the initial high wears off you have to go back to the Tec 38 being the largest in the sig line-- No comparison between Tec 38 and Action 23 Major congrats!

 

Fist sidekick versus first arch villain. To-may-toe, to-mah-toe. And he has both. Awesome stuff Red.

 

-J.

 

Woot Woot!!

 

It's a fun game of Tetris rearranging my signature.

[Big Moov]

Stephen Fishler agrees with you - at least he did in 1986 when he and I first discussed which were the most important ashcans. Flash/Thrill ashcans are very cool and certainly historically important, but because they were created by Fawcett they haven't attained the stature of the top DC ashcans (Action Comics, Action Funnies, Double Action, Superman, Wonder Woman, All Star, Superboy, Superwoman, Supergirl, and Flash). These characters and titles form the foundation for the hobby we love as well as the billions of dollars of commerce they've generated over the past 75 years.

 

The Lone Ranger ashcan just sold for $7,500 or so last week. I can argue that the Lone Ranger is as important (more important?) within our popular culture as Captain Marvel. Yet his first appearance ever in print brings less than $10,000?

 

We all love these wonderful characters and books, but out-of-sight/out-of-mind often is the determining factor when considering value. Your MF 73 is a perfect example. Aquaman and Green Arrow were always second-tier characters, but now with all the movie hype, a new generation of fans will be introduced to them on the big screen (at the theatre and in their homes) and will embrace them as their own. You will benefit handsomely because of this new found interest.

 

Just assuming something will be valuable (based on whatever criteria one comes up with) won't necessarily make it happen.

 

And congrats on owning that MF 73. I've always loved that book!

 

 

Oh thanks Moondog. Gator and I were just talking about you . Question for you....I agree that those other ashcans come from stronger overall companies and stuff than Fawcett....but those ashcans are significant for starting the titles, correct? None of them have the actual characters in it, right? At least not new material that hadn't been printed yet. No new characters or first appearances, correct? Maybe I hold that in too much regard, as that happens to be my preference for collecting. But there you have it - that's my reasoning. Is there anything in particular about any of those ashcans that stands-out in your opinion?

 

The Lone Ranger had appeared before in other media, right?

 

By the way, I'm not overly new to the hobby . I sold all my coins and sports-cards and switched to comics somewhere around the year 2000.

 

Your argument is sound and the same one that Fishler made 30 years ago. It is cool that Whiz 1 is actually an ashcan. But I could argue that a Captain Marvel ashcan is cooler than a Whiz ashcan, just as I believe the Superman ashcan is superior to Action and Wonder Woman is more significant than Sensation. Is it the anthology title or the character's own book that's more important? I believe in the area of ashcans it's the character's book, you may feel differently, but that's what makes eating sushi, drinking wine and talking comics so enjoyable!

 

The $27,000 sale is a strong price. It's now the floor for this book. If it ever changes hands again (these things are so rare they seldomly come to market) in the next few years, and Captain Marvel does well on screen, I wouldn't be surprised if it sold for $35-40K.

 

The Lone Ranger first appeared (was heard?) as a radio show in 1933. The LR ashcan protected an upcoming pulp title in 1936. It's his first appearance in print and as such very significant.

 

 

Good info, thanks. To me, the best ashcan would be one that had a pre-first appearance of a character. First anthology titles are cool, first character books are cool....but to me, the best is if an ashcan has the actual character in print. The first printed image of the character. That's why I like the Flash/Thrill ashcan the best.

 

As for the Lone Ranger....perhaps the reason it only got $7500 is because it wasn't his actual first appearance ever in print. If he had a radio show for 3 years before his pulp book, there must have been some advertising for this radio show. Certainly his name appeared in print, and I would guess that a picture did too. I would love to own the first printed image of the Lone Ranger, in whatever form that may be. Probably a 1933 ad for the radio show. If you can track that down, let me know .

 

I love all the ashcan and early comic history information. I still say that the Flash ashcan is undervalued and the buyer got a great deal. No reason why that comic can't explode in value. I think it should be worth more than Whiz #2. Just my personal taste and opinion.

[markseifert]

As for the Lone Ranger....perhaps the reason it only got $7500 is because it wasn't his actual first appearance ever in print. If he had a radio show for 3 years before his pulp book, there must have been some advertising for this radio show. Certainly his name appeared in print, and I would guess that a picture did too.

 

I had some casual interest in this too, but the first app issue lacks clarity for some of the reasons you mention, plus there's Zane Grey's 1914 novel Lone Star Ranger, which was made into an early film and certainly inspired Lone Ranger in both title and spirit.

 

[jimbo_707]

I still say that the Flash ashcan is undervalued and the buyer got a great deal. No reason why that comic can't explode in value. I think it should be worth more than Whiz #2. Just my personal taste and opinion.

There is a reason: Most collectors don't care about ashcans. The market has demonstrated that time & time again, your personal taste and opinion notwithstanding. The pool of potential bidders will always be much smaller than the pool of potential bidders for a published key comic book. It's sort of like the way they don't much care about the ads for Action 1 & Tec 27 that preceded the actual books. They just don't care.

[bluechip]

I still say that the Flash ashcan is undervalued and the buyer got a great deal. No reason why that comic can't explode in value. I think it should be worth more than Whiz #2. Just my personal taste and opinion.

There is a reason: Most collectors don't care about ashcans. The market has demonstrated that time & time again, your personal taste and opinion notwithstanding. The pool of potential bidders will always be much smaller than the pool of potential bidders for a published key comic book. It's sort of like the way they don't much care about the ads for Action 1 & Tec 27 that preceded the actual books. They just don't care.

 

The hobby could use a bit less of the "nobody cares" argument.

 

Had a conversation yesterday about a truly rare item I passed on buying long ago because dealers talked me out of bidding, and it's not available for less than 10X what I could have gotten it for About the same time I heard a dealer tell a novice collector that he couldn't go far wrong if he bought "9.0 and above." No more details needed. Just a grade number.

 

Now, you can say that a dealer should talk down a rare item and talk up anything that meets a grade number because of the history of sales. But you'll get a more clear picture if you just stop and think about the agendas of the people involved. Dealers know that rare items are not easy to acquire for resale. But 9.0s you can acquire all day long.

 

So, if you amend "nobody cares" to "dealers don't care" it would be more accurate.

 

Now this is not to paint everybody with the same brush or to try to slam anybody's business model. If you don't like ashcans, fine. But why attack them and why say something as broad as "(collectors) don't care."

 

Clearly, some collectors do care. So when somebody says "they don't care" it's hard not to conclude that's being said with the express agenda of lessening the number of people who do care, to keep them from buying out of fear that others "don't care."

 

Maybe the poster went too far in saying the ashcan should be more than Whiz 2 and maybe that feels like a threat to your collection's value. "if everybody decides the ashcan is worth more, than who will buy my Whiz 2 (or my boxes of 9.0s)?"

 

The simple fact is that people have different tastes and there are enough collectors to go around that the increased value in a rare unpublished item doesn't automatically the value of your items will plummet.

 

Fact is that even while he might have one too far with the "more than Whiz 2" line, it's not actually inconsistent with the history of all collectibles that some people might actually prefer it to a Whiz just because it preceded that book. TThat doesn't mean that everybody will feel that way, or even most people. But when there's only one or two of something, you don't need everybody to want it.

 

And even in the extremely unlikely situation that everybody did somehow prefer it, there's never going to be enough copies of the ashcan to go around, so nearly everybody have to "settle" for a Whiz 2.

 

If he wants to pump the interest in ashcans, let him. Maybe he really likes them. And maybe because he has a pile of them he wants other people to like them (and buy them). At least they're rare enough that even if he overstates the interest you know there will never be thousands or millions of people sitting on stacks of them which they thought would pay for their retirement.

 

Saying they're not your cup of tea is one thing. But overstating things to say that nobody wants them doesn't look good for anybody.

 

 

[batman_fan]

I still say that the Flash ashcan is undervalued and the buyer got a great deal. No reason why that comic can't explode in value. I think it should be worth more than Whiz #2. Just my personal taste and opinion.

There is a reason: Most collectors don't care about ashcans. The market has demonstrated that time & time again, your personal taste and opinion notwithstanding. The pool of potential bidders will always be much smaller than the pool of potential bidders for a published key comic book. It's sort of like the way they don't much care about the ads for Action 1 & Tec 27 that preceded the actual books. They just don't care.

 

The hobby could use a bit less of the "nobody cares" argument.

 

Had a conversation yesterday about a truly rare item I passed on buying long ago because dealers talked me out of bidding, and it's not available for less than 10X what I could have gotten it for About the same time I heard a dealer tell a novice collector that he couldn't go far wrong if he bought "9.0 and above." No more details needed. Just a grade number.

 

Now, you can say that a dealer should talk down a rare item and talk up anything that meets a grade number because of the history of sales. But you'll get a more clear picture if you just stop and think about the agendas of the people involved. Dealers know that rare items are not easy to acquire for resale. But 9.0s you can acquire all day long.

 

So, if you amend "nobody cares" to "dealers don't care" it would be more accurate.

 

Now this is not to paint everybody with the same brush or to try to slam anybody's business model. If you don't like ashcans, fine. But why attack them and why say something as broad as "(collectors) don't care."

 

Clearly, some collectors do care. So when somebody says "they don't care" it's hard not to conclude that's being said with the express agenda of lessening the number of people who do care, to keep them from buying out of fear that others "don't care."

 

Maybe the poster went too far in saying the ashcan should be more than Whiz 2 and maybe that feels like a threat to your collection's value. "if everybody decides the ashcan is worth more, than who will buy my Whiz 2 (or my boxes of 9.0s)?"

 

The simple fact is that people have different tastes and there are enough collectors to go around that the increased value in a rare unpublished item doesn't automatically the value of your items will plummet.

 

Fact is that even while he might have one too far with the "more than Whiz 2" line, it's not actually inconsistent with the history of all collectibles that some people might actually prefer it to a Whiz just because it preceded that book. TThat doesn't mean that everybody will feel that way, or even most people. But when there's only one or two of something, you don't need everybody to want it.

 

And even in the extremely unlikely situation that everybody did somehow prefer it, there's never going to be enough copies of the ashcan to go around, so nearly everybody have to "settle" for a Whiz 2.

 

If he wants to pump the interest in ashcans, let him. Maybe he really likes them. And maybe because he has a pile of them he wants other people to like them (and buy them). At least they're rare enough that even if he overstates the interest you know there will never be thousands or millions of people sitting on stacks of them which they thought would pay for their retirement.

 

Saying they're not your cup of tea is one thing. But overstating things to say that nobody wants them doesn't look good for anybody.

 

 

I would say it differently. It isn't that people don't care. It is that at the current price level a lot of collector decide to spend there money elsewhere. I know I always watch the ashcans but they always go for more than I want to spend given other items I decide to focus on. That said at some point I will purchase one at some point.

[Aman619]

It's not that "they " don't care. It's just that "not enough" collectors care, so getting your money out (to the extent that that matters to you) will be more difficult than selling a book with far deeper appeal to more collectors. Buyers market vs sellers market. If someone loves ashcans, buy em at whatever price you can get them. But if one thinks they are buying a grossly undervalued asset, soon to be discovered by the masses, buyer beware. Prevailing attitude that they don't float many peoples boats may never change

[Red84]

It's not that "they " don't care. It's just that "not enough" collectors care, so getting your money out (to the extent that that matters to you) will be more difficult than selling a book with far deeper appeal to more collectors. Buyers market vs sellers market. If someone loves ashcans, buy em at whatever price you can get them. But if one thinks they are buying a grossly undervalued asset, soon to be discovered by the masses, buyer beware. Prevailing attitude that they don't float many peoples boats may never change

 

I think it's more accurate to say that most people don't know about Ashcans rather than saying that people aren't interested in them. If you agree with the former than there is substantial room for growth.

[bluechip]

The last 3 posts are all very reasonable. They assess the situation without showing any agenda to sway the value in one way or another.

 

 

When I first heard of ashcans in the 90s it was from a guy (possibly "the" guy) who seemed to own a significant percentage of the ones known to be extant at the time. I was intrigued by the concept but not enough to say I would buy an ashcan, any ashcan, just because. Had I been offered the Superman ashcan. I might have gone for it. But I wasn't offered one from any title that meant anything to me, and I was not interested enough in ashcans for the sake of ashcans to go for any of the ones that I was offered. So as yet have never bought one. Though I'd be open to it under the right circumstances.

 

Ashcans are also the sort of thing that I think are best when certified by a company like CGC. To me, the verification of the history and provenance of a rare or unique item is more valuable than the certification of an opinion about the grade. And it's great that they are certifying these things.

[jimbo_707]

 

Now this is not to paint everybody with the same brush or to try to slam anybody's business model. If you don't like ashcans, fine. But why attack them and why say something as broad as "(collectors) don't care."

 

 

Maybe the poster went too far in saying the ashcan should be more than Whiz 2 and maybe that feels like a threat to your collection's value. "if everybody decides the ashcan is worth more, than who will buy my Whiz 2 (or my boxes of 9.0s)?"

 

The simple fact is that people have different tastes and there are enough collectors to go around that the increased value in a rare unpublished item doesn't automatically the value of your items will plummet.

If you'll re-read my post, you'll see that I said "most" collectors don't care. So far as I can tell from auction results, most don't.

 

As far as the value of my collection goes, I don't care whether it goes up or down. Actually, if my books drop in value, then the books on my want list will also drop in value, so if anything I'd prefer to see my books lose value. I don't intend to sell my collection—of course it will be sold upon my death—but I do intend to buy more books.

[Aman619]

It's not that "they " don't care. It's just that "not enough" collectors care, so getting your money out (to the extent that that matters to you) will be more difficult than selling a book with far deeper appeal to more collectors. Buyers market vs sellers market. If someone loves ashcans, buy em at whatever price you can get them. But if one thinks they are buying a grossly undervalued asset, soon to be discovered by the masses, buyer beware. Prevailing attitude that they don't float many peoples boats may never change

 

I think it's more accurate to say that most people don't know about Ashcans rather than saying that people aren't interested in them. If you agree with the former than there is substantial room for growth.

 

not to quibble, since we are all being so genteel about this subject, but every week month and year more people hear about ashcans as they are discussed and up for sale or auction. (heck many have been listed on Ebay for years at outrageous prices, which of course hasn't helped their absorption into more collections!) and over all this time, out of all the people who learn about them, STILL very FEW of them are moved to begin collecting them.

 

I too would have bought, if offered at a reasonable price, a "significant" ashcan, but it was always the lesser issues for sale.. But many years later, I now feel confident I dodged a bullet, having put my comics dollars into other pieces.

 

As with many other items, if they changed hands more often, we could gauge the market value for them. As it stands, they are worth whatever their owner dreams they are worth.

[Moondog]

Stephen Fishler agrees with you - at least he did in 1986 when he and I first discussed which were the most important ashcans. Flash/Thrill ashcans are very cool and certainly historically important, but because they were created by Fawcett they haven't attained the stature of the top DC ashcans (Action Comics, Action Funnies, Double Action, Superman, Wonder Woman, All Star, Superboy, Superwoman, Supergirl, and Flash). These characters and titles form the foundation for the hobby we love as well as the billions of dollars of commerce they've generated over the past 75 years.

 

The Lone Ranger ashcan just sold for $7,500 or so last week. I can argue that the Lone Ranger is as important (more important?) within our popular culture as Captain Marvel. Yet his first appearance ever in print brings less than $10,000?

 

We all love these wonderful characters and books, but out-of-sight/out-of-mind often is the determining factor when considering value. Your MF 73 is a perfect example. Aquaman and Green Arrow were always second-tier characters, but now with all the movie hype, a new generation of fans will be introduced to them on the big screen (at the theatre and in their homes) and will embrace them as their own. You will benefit handsomely because of this new found interest.

 

Just assuming something will be valuable (based on whatever criteria one comes up with) won't necessarily make it happen.

 

And congrats on owning that MF 73. I've always loved that book!

 

 

Oh thanks Moondog. Gator and I were just talking about you . Question for you....I agree that those other ashcans come from stronger overall companies and stuff than Fawcett....but those ashcans are significant for starting the titles, correct? None of them have the actual characters in it, right? At least not new material that hadn't been printed yet. No new characters or first appearances, correct? Maybe I hold that in too much regard, as that happens to be my preference for collecting. But there you have it - that's my reasoning. Is there anything in particular about any of those ashcans that stands-out in your opinion?

 

The Lone Ranger had appeared before in other media, right?

 

By the way, I'm not overly new to the hobby . I sold all my coins and sports-cards and switched to comics somewhere around the year 2000.

 

Your argument is sound and the same one that Fishler made 30 years ago. It is cool that Whiz 1 is actually an ashcan. But I could argue that a Captain Marvel ashcan is cooler than a Whiz ashcan, just as I believe the Superman ashcan is superior to Action and Wonder Woman is more significant than Sensation. Is it the anthology title or the character's own book that's more important? I believe in the area of ashcans it's the character's book, you may feel differently, but that's what makes eating sushi, drinking wine and talking comics so enjoyable!

 

The $27,000 sale is a strong price. It's now the floor for this book. If it ever changes hands again (these things are so rare they seldomly come to market) in the next few years, and Captain Marvel does well on screen, I wouldn't be surprised if it sold for $35-40K.

 

The Lone Ranger first appeared (was heard?) as a radio show in 1933. The LR ashcan protected an upcoming pulp title in 1936. It's his first appearance in print and as such very significant.

 

I love all the ashcan and early comic history information. I still say that the Flash ashcan is undervalued and the buyer got a great deal. No reason why that comic can't explode in value. I think it should be worth more than Whiz #2. Just my personal taste and opinion.

 

All ashcans are undervalued, BM. They have an enormous upside potential. But it will be difficult for this potential to be realized because they're so darned rare. It's happening though. Little by little.

 

 

[jimbo_707]

Stephen Fishler agrees with you - at least he did in 1986 when he and I first discussed which were the most important ashcans. Flash/Thrill ashcans are very cool and certainly historically important, but because they were created by Fawcett they haven't attained the stature of the top DC ashcans (Action Comics, Action Funnies, Double Action, Superman, Wonder Woman, All Star, Superboy, Superwoman, Supergirl, and Flash). These characters and titles form the foundation for the hobby we love as well as the billions of dollars of commerce they've generated over the past 75 years.

 

The Lone Ranger ashcan just sold for $7,500 or so last week. I can argue that the Lone Ranger is as important (more important?) within our popular culture as Captain Marvel. Yet his first appearance ever in print brings less than $10,000?

 

We all love these wonderful characters and books, but out-of-sight/out-of-mind often is the determining factor when considering value. Your MF 73 is a perfect example. Aquaman and Green Arrow were always second-tier characters, but now with all the movie hype, a new generation of fans will be introduced to them on the big screen (at the theatre and in their homes) and will embrace them as their own. You will benefit handsomely because of this new found interest.

 

Just assuming something will be valuable (based on whatever criteria one comes up with) won't necessarily make it happen.

 

And congrats on owning that MF 73. I've always loved that book!

 

 

Oh thanks Moondog. Gator and I were just talking about you . Question for you....I agree that those other ashcans come from stronger overall companies and stuff than Fawcett....but those ashcans are significant for starting the titles, correct? None of them have the actual characters in it, right? At least not new material that hadn't been printed yet. No new characters or first appearances, correct? Maybe I hold that in too much regard, as that happens to be my preference for collecting. But there you have it - that's my reasoning. Is there anything in particular about any of those ashcans that stands-out in your opinion?

 

The Lone Ranger had appeared before in other media, right?

 

By the way, I'm not overly new to the hobby . I sold all my coins and sports-cards and switched to comics somewhere around the year 2000.

 

Your argument is sound and the same one that Fishler made 30 years ago. It is cool that Whiz 1 is actually an ashcan. But I could argue that a Captain Marvel ashcan is cooler than a Whiz ashcan, just as I believe the Superman ashcan is superior to Action and Wonder Woman is more significant than Sensation. Is it the anthology title or the character's own book that's more important? I believe in the area of ashcans it's the character's book, you may feel differently, but that's what makes eating sushi, drinking wine and talking comics so enjoyable!

 

The $27,000 sale is a strong price. It's now the floor for this book. If it ever changes hands again (these things are so rare they seldomly come to market) in the next few years, and Captain Marvel does well on screen, I wouldn't be surprised if it sold for $35-40K.

 

The Lone Ranger first appeared (was heard?) as a radio show in 1933. The LR ashcan protected an upcoming pulp title in 1936. It's his first appearance in print and as such very significant.

 

I love all the ashcan and early comic history information. I still say that the Flash ashcan is undervalued and the buyer got a great deal. No reason why that comic can't explode in value. I think it should be worth more than Whiz #2. Just my personal taste and opinion.

 

All ashcans are undervalued, BM. They have an enormous upside potential. But it will be difficult for this potential to be realized because they're so darned rare. It's happening though. Little by little.

 

You could say that anything that is rare & isn't worth much has more upside than downside, but that doesn't mean that item actually will go up in value. I've known about ashcans for about 30 years (since not too long after I started collecting) because even back then the story behind the Fawcett ashcans & was discussed in Overstreet. I think of ashcans as curios: they're interesting but for me not particularly desirable.