SPIDER-MAN: HOMECOMING starring Tom Holland (7/28/17) 3 3

[kansascollector]

I thought Dunst was one of the highlights of the original trilogy. Shes carried several poor male leads in movies. Tobey is among the most cring inducing actors in my opinion and I tend to avoid movies hes in even if otherwise it sounds interesting or is something id like to see.

 

 

 

[Lonzilla]

It's stupid and it's pandering. Peter Parker had black girlfriends in the comics so make her one of those but don't race switch MJ.

[revat]

I thought Dunst was one of the highlights of the original trilogy. Shes carried several poor male leads in movies. Tobey is among the most cring inducing actors in my opinion and I tend to avoid movies hes in even if otherwise it sounds interesting or is something id like to see.

 

 

 

I also thought she acted very well, and was a highlight, I just didn't feel like she as an actress really envisioned what I perceived were the important characteristics of Mary Jane. I don't know if its more or less shallow, but I think one her main characteristics is that she's relatively hot and popular and knows it but doesn't care, and actively tries to get peter out of his shell without turning him into something he's not. Her hotness and energy is way more important than her race, at least to me, at least for the way she's portrayed in the comics.

 

But seriously, it's about marketing more than anything else. How many LESS people will watch spiderman because MJ isn't white? Not many....and does marvel even want the money of those people? Their 'inclusiveness' gets people talking while reaching out to a still relatively untapped growing minority population who is now ACTIVELY seeking representation in Hollywood. Why not get the PR and the box office boost? You think they don't have some geniuses crunching those numbers? I'm sure they've done the math, and they wouldn't have done it if they didn't think there would be some benefit.

 

They're not doing it because they love to force diversity down our throats or hate white actors. In fact, a pessimist might even say it gives them even more moral licensing to be racist in other areas in entertainment? How many movie execs and producers and directors and writers are women or minorities? "We're not racist, we made Mary Jane non-white this time." "We're not racist, we have a black friend."

 

 

 

 

[techvoodoo]

The villain Shocker is getting diversified too apparently? I don't know, I mean it's not a big deal in itself, but when I see arbitrary decisions to change the mythology like this I can't help but think of Fantastic Four and wonder if there's an unending string of more bad decisions in this movie coming that we just haven't heard about yet.

 

My spidey sense is tingling, I got a bad feeling about this one.

 

 

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/spider-man/leaked-spider-man-homecoming-call-sheet-confirms-bokeem-woodbine-as-a144667

[techvoodoo]

Nobody's comics are going to spontaneously combust when this film is released, she will still be 100% white in the comics for the people who really need that. The film is the film. Anyway, I think she's a good choice, I'd buy her as MJ:

 

 

 

I don't need to see another MJ with pasty white skin.

 

she's not the first thing I would think of when I think Mary Jane, but at least she's attractive, which is much much more than I can say for Kirsten Dunst (who I think is a fine actor). I think a more integral part of MJ is that she will be a MODEL as an adult, a very attractive woman paired with a Peter Parker nerd. The charm of that type of relationship is much more important to me than race. Couldn't get it with Dunst because she wasn't objectively hot.

 

Also, for those who have a problem with MJ casting, do you have the same problem with Aunt May suddenly turning Italian?

 

 

Making her Italian wasn't the best idea but you could over look it, however casting a still young and attractive Marissa Tomei as Peter's wheatcake making sweet old aunt is a big swing and a miss in my book.

[Gatsby77]

The villain Shocker is getting diversified too apparently? I don't know, I mean it's not a big deal in itself, but when I see arbitrary decisions to change the mythology like this I can't help but think of Fantastic Four and wonder if there's an unending string of more bad decisions in this movie coming that we just haven't heard about yet.

 

My spidey sense is tingling, I got a bad feeling about this one.

 

 

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/spider-man/leaked-spider-man-homecoming-call-sheet-confirms-bokeem-woodbine-as-a144667

 

Who cares if they change Shocker's ethnicity? They already changed Electro's. Heck, I actually have no idea whether the original Shocker in the comics is white or black.

 

Ditto, I had to literally look up Deadshot's current ethnicity in DC continuity since the only time I've seen him without his mask on was in Batman # 59, where he's clearly white. (Spoiler: Deadshot's still white.)

 

Did anyone give a rat's that Deadshot was black in Suicide Squad?

 

Or (really) that Nick Fury was black?

[techvoodoo]

Wait didn't Electro and that whole movie kinda suck?

[Gatsby77]

Yeah.

 

So did FF.

 

But the race of Johnny Storm and Electro had exactly zero bearing on the suckage.

 

And, in Suicide Squad, Will Smith was one of the (very) few good parts of that entire movie (which sucked donkey balls).

[revat]

Wait didn't Electro and that whole movie kinda suck?

 

yes

 

but that had nothing to do with Electro being a different race (although I don't think Jamie Foxx was right for the role).

[chezmtghut]

The villain Shocker is getting diversified too apparently? I don't know, I mean it's not a big deal in itself, but when I see arbitrary decisions to change the mythology like this I can't help but think of Fantastic Four and wonder if there's an unending string of more bad decisions in this movie coming that we just haven't heard about yet.

 

My spidey sense is tingling, I got a bad feeling about this one.

 

 

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/spider-man/leaked-spider-man-homecoming-call-sheet-confirms-bokeem-woodbine-as-a144667

 

Who cares if they change Shocker's ethnicity? They already changed Electro's. Heck, I actually have no idea whether the original Shocker in the comics is white or black.

 

Ditto, I had to literally look up Deadshot's current ethnicity in DC continuity since the only time I've seen him without his mask on was in Batman # 59, where he's clearly white. (Spoiler: Deadshot's still white.)

 

Did anyone give a rat's that Deadshot was black in Suicide Squad?

 

Or (really) that Nick Fury was black?

What if they would have cast Superman, Batman & Wonder Woman with African/Mexican/Chinese actors? I wonder how that would go over.

[techvoodoo]

Hey I've said or at least implied that the individual changes aren't the problem. It's the lack of respect and disregard for the source material that usually (but not always) ends up making a movie fail. When all you see are decisions to change things, at this early stage, how can you have faith in the filmmakers? They think they know better then the people that created this mythology, and we've seen over and over, that when film makers go down that road they're usually wrong.

 

So you can say "what difference does it make if they change Shockers race", but I just see a string of decisions being made that aren't for the betterment of the story by people who think they know better, and I'm sure they in fact do not know better.

 

 

[revat]

The villain Shocker is getting diversified too apparently? I don't know, I mean it's not a big deal in itself, but when I see arbitrary decisions to change the mythology like this I can't help but think of Fantastic Four and wonder if there's an unending string of more bad decisions in this movie coming that we just haven't heard about yet.

 

My spidey sense is tingling, I got a bad feeling about this one.

 

 

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/spider-man/leaked-spider-man-homecoming-call-sheet-confirms-bokeem-woodbine-as-a144667

 

Who cares if they change Shocker's ethnicity? They already changed Electro's. Heck, I actually have no idea whether the original Shocker in the comics is white or black.

 

Ditto, I had to literally look up Deadshot's current ethnicity in DC continuity since the only time I've seen him without his mask on was in Batman # 59, where he's clearly white. (Spoiler: Deadshot's still white.)

 

Did anyone give a rat's that Deadshot was black in Suicide Squad?

 

Or (really) that Nick Fury was black?

What if they would have cast Superman, Batman & Wonder Woman with African/Mexican/Chinese actors? I wonder how that would go over.

 

Then their sales would be hurt, so they wouldn't do it. Those characters are already too well known in the mainstream to make those kinds of changes unless they have a VERRRRY good reason. They're looking for new opportunities to appeal to expanded markets and modernize the stories, not to alienate large swaths of casual fans who expect something and get something else (well DC did that anyways). I do understand the desire by fans to adhere more closely to long beloved source material, but I would argue that its FAR more important to movie execs to write and make solid movies with solid acting and get to the core of its main characters than it is to strictly adhere to physical likenesses of supporting characters. I think Marvel has done that fairly well, and race switching to me hasn't really taken away from that. Captain America didn't have a black gf or commanding officer (Tommy Lee Jones) in WWII, because that wouldn't have made sense for the time. In modern times, that is largely a non-issue, and Sam Jackson brings a lot more to the role than the perceived drawbacks of the race-switch. And if Spider-man is modern, which is more likely? That the prettiest girl at a middle lower class Queens public school is latina? or a tall redhead? If she wasn't mary jane and just a new character, they'd be getting a MILLION more complaints about 'why no mj?'

 

Everyone is of course entitled to their own opinion, I just think there's much more going on than 'change for the sake of change', or 'pushing political agendas because of liberal conspiracies'. Doesn't make it a great idea either, just doesn't make it automatically a bad idea.

 

I wouldn't have thought Jason Mamoa to an obvious choice for the aquaman of my youth either, but there doesn't seem to be quite as much outrage....

[Gatsby77]

Well put.

 

And I don't buy the "changes for the sake of changes" argument, particularly as we transition to a) a different era than that one in which Stan Lee, Jack Kirby & others were creating, and b) to a different medium.

 

"Fidelity to the source material" is BS:

 

Spider-Man's organic web-shooters in the Raimi trilogy were the same sort of "needless change" that ended up streamlining the story a bit (and its believability -- ie., harder for me to believe that Peter Parker could invent them himself than inherit the power from the spider bite -- same reason I defend the Disney retcon that he inherits the tech from Tony Stark).

 

Watchmen was _vastly_ improved by removing the idiotic squid.

 

Catwoman (as another example) was a mess movie that had precisely zero to do with Halle Berry's being cast in the role.

 

Back to my first point -- if the Marvel Universe were created today, it would have _far_ more diversity than it did when it was created in the pre-Civil Rights era. Because the country is different now.

 

Folks are free to think otherwise, but I hope they are aware of the extent to which such knee-jerk reactions against race-blind casting decisions (be they PC or not) makes them sound like nothing but racists.

[juggernaut]

The villain Shocker is getting diversified too apparently? I don't know, I mean it's not a big deal in itself, but when I see arbitrary decisions to change the mythology like this I can't help but think of Fantastic Four and wonder if there's an unending string of more bad decisions in this movie coming that we just haven't heard about yet.

 

My spidey sense is tingling, I got a bad feeling about this one.

 

 

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/spider-man/leaked-spider-man-homecoming-call-sheet-confirms-bokeem-woodbine-as-a144667

 

#29 is the most important person on the call sheet.

[chezmtghut]

The villain Shocker is getting diversified too apparently? I don't know, I mean it's not a big deal in itself, but when I see arbitrary decisions to change the mythology like this I can't help but think of Fantastic Four and wonder if there's an unending string of more bad decisions in this movie coming that we just haven't heard about yet.

 

My spidey sense is tingling, I got a bad feeling about this one.

 

 

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/spider-man/leaked-spider-man-homecoming-call-sheet-confirms-bokeem-woodbine-as-a144667

 

Who cares if they change Shocker's ethnicity? They already changed Electro's. Heck, I actually have no idea whether the original Shocker in the comics is white or black.

 

Ditto, I had to literally look up Deadshot's current ethnicity in DC continuity since the only time I've seen him without his mask on was in Batman # 59, where he's clearly white. (Spoiler: Deadshot's still white.)

 

Did anyone give a rat's that Deadshot was black in Suicide Squad?

 

Or (really) that Nick Fury was black?

What if they would have cast Superman, Batman & Wonder Woman with African/Mexican/Chinese actors? I wonder how that would go over.

 

Then their sales would be hurt, so they wouldn't do it. Those characters are already too well known in the mainstream to make those kinds of changes unless they have a VERRRRY good reason. They're looking for new opportunities to appeal to expanded markets and modernize the stories, not to alienate large swaths of casual fans who expect something and get something else (well DC did that anyways). I do understand the desire by fans to adhere more closely to long beloved source material, but I would argue that its FAR more important to movie execs to write and make solid movies with solid acting and get to the core of its main characters than it is to strictly adhere to physical likenesses of supporting characters. I think Marvel has done that fairly well, and race switching to me hasn't really taken away from that. Captain America didn't have a black gf or commanding officer (Tommy Lee Jones) in WWII, because that wouldn't have made sense for the time. In modern times, that is largely a non-issue, and Sam Jackson brings a lot more to the role than the perceived drawbacks of the race-switch. And if Spider-man is modern, which is more likely? That the prettiest girl at a middle lower class Queens public school is latina? or a tall redhead? If she wasn't mary jane and just a new character, they'd be getting a MILLION more complaints about 'why no mj?'

 

Everyone is of course entitled to their own opinion, I just think there's much more going on than 'change for the sake of change', or 'pushing political agendas because of liberal conspiracies'. Doesn't make it a great idea either, just doesn't make it automatically a bad idea.

 

I wouldn't have thought Jason Mamoa to an obvious choice for the aquaman of my youth either, but there doesn't seem to be quite as much outrage....

So it's basically ok to do with lesser know characters that won't ultimately effect ticket sales. Well the MJ switch might do just that. She's not an unknown character to the general masses anymore. If they're making MJ a Latina, I'm guessing she's no longer a red head. Keeping that one aspect true to the source material would just be ridiculous at this point. I'd honestly prefer that they create new characters that were never in the comics rather than see them mess with the original artists creations. I understand some changes might seem necessary, but I'd rather see Vulture without the tech & Spidey create his own suite for example. Maybe he could get some upgrades from Stark eventually, but not right off the bat. If they don't want to stick with the source material, then just create something new instead of going both ways. Just my .

[revat]

The villain Shocker is getting diversified too apparently? I don't know, I mean it's not a big deal in itself, but when I see arbitrary decisions to change the mythology like this I can't help but think of Fantastic Four and wonder if there's an unending string of more bad decisions in this movie coming that we just haven't heard about yet.

 

My spidey sense is tingling, I got a bad feeling about this one.

 

 

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/spider-man/leaked-spider-man-homecoming-call-sheet-confirms-bokeem-woodbine-as-a144667

 

Who cares if they change Shocker's ethnicity? They already changed Electro's. Heck, I actually have no idea whether the original Shocker in the comics is white or black.

 

Ditto, I had to literally look up Deadshot's current ethnicity in DC continuity since the only time I've seen him without his mask on was in Batman # 59, where he's clearly white. (Spoiler: Deadshot's still white.)

 

Did anyone give a rat's that Deadshot was black in Suicide Squad?

 

Or (really) that Nick Fury was black?

What if they would have cast Superman, Batman & Wonder Woman with African/Mexican/Chinese actors? I wonder how that would go over.

 

Then their sales would be hurt, so they wouldn't do it. Those characters are already too well known in the mainstream to make those kinds of changes unless they have a VERRRRY good reason. They're looking for new opportunities to appeal to expanded markets and modernize the stories, not to alienate large swaths of casual fans who expect something and get something else (well DC did that anyways). I do understand the desire by fans to adhere more closely to long beloved source material, but I would argue that its FAR more important to movie execs to write and make solid movies with solid acting and get to the core of its main characters than it is to strictly adhere to physical likenesses of supporting characters. I think Marvel has done that fairly well, and race switching to me hasn't really taken away from that. Captain America didn't have a black gf or commanding officer (Tommy Lee Jones) in WWII, because that wouldn't have made sense for the time. In modern times, that is largely a non-issue, and Sam Jackson brings a lot more to the role than the perceived drawbacks of the race-switch. And if Spider-man is modern, which is more likely? That the prettiest girl at a middle lower class Queens public school is latina? or a tall redhead? If she wasn't mary jane and just a new character, they'd be getting a MILLION more complaints about 'why no mj?'

 

Everyone is of course entitled to their own opinion, I just think there's much more going on than 'change for the sake of change', or 'pushing political agendas because of liberal conspiracies'. Doesn't make it a great idea either, just doesn't make it automatically a bad idea.

 

I wouldn't have thought Jason Mamoa to an obvious choice for the aquaman of my youth either, but there doesn't seem to be quite as much outrage....

So it's basically ok to do with lesser know characters that won't ultimately effect ticket sales. Well the MJ switch might do just that. She's not an unknown character to the general masses anymore. If they're making MJ a Latina, I'm guessing she's no longer a red head. Keeping that one aspect true to the source material would just be ridiculous at this point. I'd honestly prefer that they create new characters that were never in the comics rather than see them mess with the original artists creations. I understand some changes might seem necessary, but I'd rather see Vulture without the tech & Spidey create his own suite for example. Maybe he could get some upgrades from Stark eventually, but not right off the bat. If they don't want to stick with the source material, then just create something new instead of going both ways. Just my .

 

I would say there's a difference between being 'known' to the general public, and their race switch 'mattering' negatively to the general public.

 

For this specific example, which will be greater? The financial loss from old white fan boys who love Spidey but won't watch a Marvel created spiderman movie JUST because of MJ race switch...OR.... the financial gains from youth and growing minority populations who will watch this new spiderman because there's a minority female love interest in a major marvel movie? I'd say at WORST its a wash. But who's dollar do you think Disney wants more? And in the mean time the positive PR they get is a boon and builds interest.

 

There's def reasonable arguments against a switch, I just think Disney has considered those and made a decision that has been weighed, researched, and that they believe will benefit their shareholders.

[Gatsby77]

 

Check the photo in the link. This MJ is clearly still a redhead.

 

And that's no more ridiculous than the blonde wig & blue contacts they slapped on Jessica Alba's (Hispanic) Sue Storm.

[chezmtghut]

 

Check the photo in the link. This MJ is clearly still a redhead.

 

And that's no more ridiculous than the blonde wig & blue contacts they slapped on Jessica Alba's (Hispanic) Sue Storm.

I saw it already & think she should just keep her natural hair color. I guess Laura Harrier/Liz Allen should be dying her hair blonde?

[prez]

If this is true, I won't be too keen to see this movie. My son would probably enjoy this...

 

 

Source:

skip to the 1:00 mark

[chezmtghut]

If this is true, I won't be too keen to see this movie. My son would probably enjoy this...

 

 

Source:

skip to the 1:00 mark

It's looking like that's the way they're going. Surprised they didn't change Spidey also. From what I'm seeing, they've basically altered everything else.