Bonds25 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 This is one I never had before. Love all the books! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciorac Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 So, on this book from .5, is this Beak Bondage? Should someone email CGC and ask them to put this on any future notes? EXACTLY, but I was thinking Overstreet notes. Bondage cover, injury to the eye motif, beak abuse, lingerie panels... See, it fits right in. Who's got Bob Overstreet's ear? Jack I laughed out loud at that one Jack Thanks! Everytime I read beak abuse cover in future iterations of the guide I will chuckle. I'll include it with my report to Bob for next years' guide. Make me a comprehensive list will you? Yes, that's got to be my favorite post ever in the Duck thread . Of course, for ducks it should be Bill Abuse, but I didn't want to alarm ciorac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KING of JOKERS Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Who knows? Without better information into what lurks in Geppi's vaults (which I note that he's not obligated to disclose), there are a few possible scenarios: [...] The point is that like most things in life, it's a calculated gamble. At the end of the day, all you have to do is ask yourself 2 questions: 1. How badly do I want the book? 2. What is the most I'm willing to pay for the book? And then bid and let the chips fall where they may. Don't fall victim to "paralysis by over-analysis". I agree with all you say. What I fear has been missing is a realistic understanding of the known supply and associated risks among the collectors that have started in the last 10 years. The run that is listed at Heritage is clearly exceptional, but there is some risk that it is not as exceptional as you would be led to believe without detailed knowledge of the market in the 70s and early 80s. I may be bidding on some of the books myself, but I am factoring in this risk in my bids. My main concern is the long term stability of the market for these books: I would like to continue to have a stable supply for many years to come. A couple of years ago, I posted my concern for the record prices that were being paid for higher grades, especially a lot of the so-so material from the Crippen collection. A bubble is not healthy in any context and I am concerned to see books like the WDCS 43, which sold for $8,300 in 2007, relisted so quickly. Honestly, I can't see it selling for more than a tiny fraction of that today. Still, results like this may create an inflated and unrealistic picture of what these books are worth. Steadily growing prices would be much healthier long term. One funny aspect of this, which Transplant alluded to, is that the staff at Gemstone is reading these boards and could very easily post a statement from Geppi or Snyder if they wanted to share their knowledge. They are certainly not required to do so, but I don't see how anyone could disagree that this has relevance for someone who might be thinking about bidding into 6 figures for the February run at Heritage. The apparently deliberate reluctance to provide transparency constitutes a further risk that is affecting my own bids. Consequently, I doubt I will win anything this time. If Geppi would share his knowledge about how rare these books really are, I would absolutely, no question, bid higher. Just for the record, I am not trying to scare anyone away by spreading rumors. The warehouse finds I am referring to are coming from multiple reliable sources and several extremely knowledgeable collectors have told me that they've avoided high grade Dells because of the risks ("Timely" has said so on the boards, for example). For some reason, this seems to be a strangely hot potato among both collectors and dealers and very few people want to talk about it publicly. The apparently deliberate reluctance to provide transparency constitutes a further risk that is affecting my own bids. Consequently, I doubt I will win anything this time. If Geppi would share his knowledge about how rare these books really are, I would absolutely, no question, bid higher. - tb tb: This is exactly how I feel. Especially the last sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KING of JOKERS Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Got this one in among some nice Duck books .... though I'll share this one to keep those like myself in the north, warm as it is Freezing today, by providing a visual of what lies ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiverbones Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Yeah, it's a kelly cover. The personalities he gives them are remarkable no doubt! I do not have a #43 yet, it's been eluding me. I give it another week and Mr. Duck Avarice here will have a copy in his collection Mr. Duck Avarice! I am drunk as hell and covered in Mardi Gras Make up, I can't comment now, but will in the morning. Jack... You kill me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciorac Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Got this one in among some nice Duck books .... though I'll share this one to keep those like myself in the north, warm as it is Freezing today, by providing a visual of what lies ahead. What a stunning copy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciorac Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Yeah, it's a kelly cover. The personalities he gives them are remarkable no doubt! I do not have a #43 yet, it's been eluding me. I give it another week and Mr. Duck Avarice here will have a copy in his collection Mr. Duck Avarice! I am drunk as hell and covered in Mardi Gras Make up, I can't comment now, but will in the morning. Jack... You kill me... You must be drunk if you are confusing Jack and I ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiverbones Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Yeah, it's a kelly cover. The personalities he gives them are remarkable no doubt! I do not have a #43 yet, it's been eluding me. I give it another week and Mr. Duck Avarice here will have a copy in his collection Mr. Duck Avarice! I am drunk as hell and covered in Mardi Gras Make up, I can't comment now, but will in the morning. Jack... You kill me... You must be drunk if you are confusing Jack and I ? no, I was in my mind responding to you & Jack separately, but in the real sober world no one else would know that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KING of JOKERS Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Got this one in among some nice Duck books .... though I'll share this one to keep those like myself in the north, warm as it is Freezing today, by providing a visual of what lies ahead. What a stunning copy Thanks ciorac ! - Hank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiverbones Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Got this one in among some nice Duck books .... though I'll share this one to keep those like myself in the north, warm as it is Freezing today, by providing a visual of what lies ahead. What a stunning copy Thanks ciorac ! - Hank Stunning copy Hank! And you get to live a little summer while looking at it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonds25 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Well, I'm actually high bidder on a few of the Heritage books. Now the only question is whether I'll be outbid by $200 or $2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selegue Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Yeah, it's a kelly cover. The personalities he gives them are remarkable no doubt! I do not have a #43 yet, it's been eluding me. I give it another week and Mr. Duck Avarice here will have a copy in his collection Mr. Duck Avarice! I am drunk as hell and covered in Mardi Gras Make up, I can't comment now, but will in the morning. Jack... You kill me... You must be drunk if you are confusing Jack and I ? Once he's sober, he should have no trouble telling the smart one from the good-looking one. Jack the skinny one should be easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Kid Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Heritage has an outstanding run of WDCS in their next auction, but I think it is a good idea for people to wonder if there are other top quality books that haven't been graded. Being an older collector, I personally know some other older collectors who are not fond of CGC because they feel it is a tool for investors rather than collectors. Accordingly, they have never submitted their books for grading. For example, my old friend, Leonard Brown, was one of those people. When he finally asked me to sell his collection for him about 10-15 years ago, they contained many of the finest known copies when they were ultimately submitted to CGC, and he didn't have that many books. Attached is a picture of his collection sitting on my table to show Bill Ponseti, who only had to see them once to buy them with a few of his friends. The picture also includes his WDC+S #1-3, which were magnificent--#2 looks a little washed out but that is from the flash. I mention this today because of the discussion of the status of the books in the upcoming Heritage auction. If this were 1995, for example, you would not know that these books existed. And I can assure you that there are some other very nice Disney books in particular that some older collectors have that have not been graded by CGC--in fact, I have a few myself. So when you bid on or buy any book, or any item for that matter, remember the oldest warning in the marketplace: CAVEAT EMPTOR! Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KING of JOKERS Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Heritage has an outstanding run of WDCS in their next auction, but I think it is a good idea for people to wonder if there are other top quality books that haven't been graded. Being an older collector, I personally know some other older collectors who are not fond of CGC because they feel it is a tool for investors rather than collectors. Accordingly, they have never submitted their books for grading. For example, my old friend, Leonard Brown, was one of those people. When he finally asked me to sell his collection for him about 10-15 years ago, they contained many of the finest known copies when they were ultimately submitted to CGC, and he didn't have that many books. Attached is a picture of his collection sitting on my table to show Bill Ponseti, who only had to see them once to buy them with a few of his friends. The picture also includes his WDC+S #1-3, which were magnificent--#2 looks a little washed out but that is from the flash. I mention this today because of the discussion of the status of the books in the upcoming Heritage auction. If this were 1995, for example, you would not know that these books existed. And I can assure you that there are some other very nice Disney books in particular that some older collectors have that have not been graded by CGC--in fact, I have a few myself. So when you bid on or buy any book, or any item for that matter, remember the oldest warning in the marketplace: CAVEAT EMPTOR! Richard Richard, thanks for the info and the pics. Now you really have me all screwed up as to what to do when HA bidding goes live. - Hank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 well these particular ones as bill has previously said are the crescent city copies. The #1 there graded a cgc 9.4 IIRC when it was slabbed. Great collection, but should be included in the census already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KING of JOKERS Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 well these particular ones as bill has previously said are the crescent city copies. The #1 there graded a cgc 9.4 IIRC when it was slabbed. Great collection, but should be included in the census already Bronty, so are you saying that those crescent city copies are indeed CGC graded but NOT in the CGC census ? and if so, how does that happen ? - Hank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Kid Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 When I sold the books to Bill and his group, the books became the Crescent City Collection. At that time they were not slabbed, and I think Bill sold them to Geppi without getting them slabbed. Later, Steve had them slabbed and they are included in the census to the best of my understanding. My point was simply that there are some nice books still out there that haven't been slabbed owned by other collectors. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciorac Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 When I sold the books to Bill and his group, the books became the Crescent City Collection. At that time they were not slabbed, and I think Bill sold them to Geppi without getting them slabbed. Later, Steve had them slabbed and they are included in the census to the best of my understanding. My point was simply that there are some nice books still out there that haven't been slabbed owned by other collectors. Richard Thanks for posting the shot of 1 - 3 Rich! I didn't have that one for my archives. I can just see the top of Batman 11 peeking out of the stack on the left. That book was so gorgeous. I believe Geppi sold that one shortly after buying the books from us. Wonder if it ever got slabbed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tth2 Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 Who knows? Without better information into what lurks in Geppi's vaults (which I note that he's not obligated to disclose), there are a few possible scenarios: [...] The point is that like most things in life, it's a calculated gamble. At the end of the day, all you have to do is ask yourself 2 questions: 1. How badly do I want the book? 2. What is the most I'm willing to pay for the book? And then bid and let the chips fall where they may. Don't fall victim to "paralysis by over-analysis". I agree with all you say. What I fear has been missing is a realistic understanding of the known supply and associated risks among the collectors that have started in the last 10 years. The run that is listed at Heritage is clearly exceptional, but there is some risk that it is not as exceptional as you would be led to believe without detailed knowledge of the market in the 70s and early 80s. I may be bidding on some of the books myself, but I am factoring in this risk in my bids. My main concern is the long term stability of the market for these books: I would like to continue to have a stable supply for many years to come. A couple of years ago, I posted my concern for the record prices that were being paid for higher grades, especially a lot of the so-so material from the Crippen collection. A bubble is not healthy in any context and I am concerned to see books like the WDCS 43, which sold for $8,300 in 2007, relisted so quickly. Honestly, I can't see it selling for more than a tiny fraction of that today. Still, results like this may create an inflated and unrealistic picture of what these books are worth. Steadily growing prices would be much healthier long term. One funny aspect of this, which Transplant alluded to, is that the staff at Gemstone is reading these boards and could very easily post a statement from Geppi or Snyder if they wanted to share their knowledge. They are certainly not required to do so, but I don't see how anyone could disagree that this has relevance for someone who might be thinking about bidding into 6 figures for the February run at Heritage. The apparently deliberate reluctance to provide transparency constitutes a further risk that is affecting my own bids. Consequently, I doubt I will win anything this time. If Geppi would share his knowledge about how rare these books really are, I would absolutely, no question, bid higher. Just for the record, I am not trying to scare anyone away by spreading rumors. The warehouse finds I am referring to are coming from multiple reliable sources and several extremely knowledgeable collectors have told me that they've avoided high grade Dells because of the risks ("Timely" has said so on the boards, for example). For some reason, this seems to be a strangely hot potato among both collectors and dealers and very few people want to talk about it publicly. The apparently deliberate reluctance to provide transparency constitutes a further risk that is affecting my own bids. Consequently, I doubt I will win anything this time. If Geppi would share his knowledge about how rare these books really are, I would absolutely, no question, bid higher. - tb tb: This is exactly how I feel. Especially the last sentence. Well, maybe you should treat their silence as evidence that there may be more, and bid accordingly. I know that if I were Geppi (or his handlers), if there was more, I`d stay silent, and if this was the cream from the vaults, I`d be trumpeting that to the heavens so that bidders would go nuts knowing this was a one-time opportunity to get the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tth2 Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 well these particular ones as bill has previously said are the crescent city copies. The #1 there graded a cgc 9.4 IIRC when it was slabbed. Great collection, but should be included in the census already Bronty, so are you saying that those crescent city copies are indeed CGC graded but NOT in the CGC census ? and if so, how does that happen ? - Hank As I understand it, Geppi bought most or all of the Crescent City books from Bill. He has slabbed some over the past few years, highlighted by the WDCS #1 that graded out as a 9.4 and sold in the last Heritage auction for over $100K. It has been in the Census for several years, as are other books that have been slabbed. The FC #9 in the picture has also been slabbed (9.4) and was also sold in the last Heritage auction. It would not be outside the realm of possibility that Geppi took the CC books and his file copies and assembled what was his "A" run. The $64,000 question is whether what`s been offered on Heritage represents the A run. I would be willing to bet that there are more than a few CC books in the current Heritage auction, as many of the WDCSs are not file copies. The CC WDCS #2 in Yellow Kid`s picture is NOT the WDCS #2 in the current auction, but perhaps the #3 is the #3 in the current auction? The thing is they may not be identified as CC books in the Heritage auction because CGC doesn`t recognize it as a pedigree and unless someone from Geppi`s entourage told Heritage that any specific book was a CC book, they might not mention it in the listing description. Heritage can sometimes be surprisingly clueless about these kinds of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
