JUSTICE LEAGUE: PART ONE (11/17/17) 5 5

[Gatsby77]

10 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

They just seem more likeable. Compare the modern movie versions of Thor and Iron Man to the modern movie versions of  Superman and Batman as an example.  Now if DC had Christoper Reeve as Superman and Micheal Keaton as Batman things would be so much different. The two new guys that replaced them are just alright, and that don't cut it when you are going against the Downey Iron Man  and Hemsworth Thor.

This.

I liked Man of Steel a lot. Even the editing was tight, particularly in the Lois-Lane-does-her-investigative-reporting scene. Great film,

Oh...up until Superman betrays everything he's ever stood for by turning into a homicidal maniac and straight murdering Zod, after he'd already been neutralized.

 

Why does this matter?

I don't think Joe Public wants to see a dark, brooding Superman -- particularly after the brilliant light-hearted versions of him shown in Superman, Superman II and even Lois & Clark. That tone is something that the Supergirl TV show has gotten perfectly right.

[thedude]

6 minutes ago, Broke as a Joke said:

Real critics are destroying this movie.  These Snyder DC movies are comparable to Transformers Bay movies. 

yeah, I've never understood why WB went "all in" on Zack Synder, I mean, one or two movies, fine. but to give him the keys to the entire DC kingdom is ridiculous. I'm hoping to like the movie, but always wonder what "could have been.

[Bosco685]

2 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

Those were the first things that popped up on my tablet this morning, and I said this might be why Rotten Tomatoes is holding the score back and WB had the embargo. It looks like they are both trying to cover up something no matter what spin we put on it.  They should have had no embargo and release the Rotten Tomatoes score early. 

Rotten Tomatoes is using this for its new service. Not to cover anything up. That is why people were getting upset they were using Justice League to do this.

[Bosco685]

1 hour ago, Gatsby77 said:

This.

I liked Man of Steel a lot. Even the editing was tight, particularly in the Lois-Lane-does-her-investigative-reporting scene. Great film,

Oh...up until Superman betrays everything he's ever stood for by turning into a homicidal maniac and straight murdering Zod, after he'd already been neutralized.

 

Why does this matter?

I don't think Joe Public wants to see a dark, brooding Superman -- particularly after the brilliant light-hearted versions of him shown in Superman, Superman II and even Lois & Clark. That tone is something that the Supergirl TV show has gotten perfectly right.

Superman did not go all 'homicidal maniac' in that scene. If anything, he realized Zod would never give up and was directly threatening the family cowering in the corner. So demonstrating the highest level of sacrifice, he killed the only other Kryptonian he was aware of leaving him alone in life.

Odd how a scene can come across so differently to people when you don't factor in the sacrifice shown, and the impact on the individual superhero.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Bosco685

[bane]

1 hour ago, Broke as a Joke said:

Real critics are destroying this movie.  These Snyder DC movies are comparable to Transformers Bay movies.  

I enjoyed MoS and BvS to a certain extent, there is no comparing these movies to the atrocities created by Michael Bay.

For the record Suicide Squad was one of the worst movies I've seen in years.

[Gatsby77]

Wasn't just me, though.

There's a reason the critics came down on Man of Steel (and, even moreso, BvS). And it was the needlessly dark, brooding nature of Superman.

I've read a few hundred Superman comics -- the closest I've ever seen to Snyder's version was in the initial Neal Adams/Denny O'Neil run in 233-245 or so.

Superman is *supposed* to be America's boy scout, an idealistic adopted farmboy from Kansas who stands for truth, justice and the American Way, a la Captain America.

Not a pissed off alien with the look of a constipation-induced scowl.

Again - Supergirl gets this right.

[Bosco685]

It's your opinion of the production. You're entitled to it.

Meanwhile, not everyone sees Man of Steel the way you do. Many people enjoyed it.

[Gatsby77]

Meanwhile, I can't tell whether the NYT review is positive or negative.

It's headline is "Better Than the Last One" but the opening paragraph makes clear that doesn't mean much:

"Justice League, the newest DC superhero jam directed by Zack Snyder is looser, goosier, and certainly more watchable than the last one. The bar could scarcely have been set lower given that the previous movie, Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice," was such an interminable slog. The superhero and villain dynamic is much the same (slayers going to slay, etc.), but there are a few fresh faces now and Wonder Woman has more to do than play backup. The story is a confusion of noise, visual clutter and murderous digital gnats, but every so often a glimmer of life flickers through."

[kimik]

42 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

I've read a few hundred Superman comics -- the closest I've ever seen to Snyder's version was in the initial Neal Adams/Denny O'Neil run in 233-245 or so.

Superman is *supposed* to be America's boy scout, an idealistic adopted farmboy from Kansas who stands for truth, justice and the American Way, a la Captain America.

Not a pissed off alien with the look of a constipation-induced scowl.

I like the last line.

To be honest, I prefer the O'Neil/Adams Supes to anything from the late 50s through 60s or the rest of the 70s (the artwork is much better). They were likely brought in to try to modernize/revive Supes just like they did with Batman and GL.

[bane]

There are a couple of things I would change in Man of Steel but ultimately I think its a great film that gets better with every viewing.

Superman (1979) on the other hand has aged very badly and is only enjoyable for Christopher Reeves excellent performance - IMO.

[ComicConnoisseur]

11 minutes ago, bane said:

There are a couple of things I would change in Man of Steel but ultimately I think its a great film that gets better with every viewing.

I enjoyed Man of Steel immensely. The Dc movie Universe was off to a good start,than it got derailed when Ben Affleck signed up as Batman. I still say if DC went with a Man of Steel 2 instead of BvS first things would have turned out much different for the DC Universe in a more positive way.

I can go back and watch Man of Steel multiple times and enjoy it,while I can't with BvS.  General Zod was a much superior villian than the cgi Doomsday.

So I am putting some of the blame on Affleck for taking the DC Universe off track.

The best thing that will happen is have a new Batman for the solo movies. I can't see people lining up to see Affleck as Batman again in the future. I rather see Keaton again after his Vulture performance than more Affleck as Batman.

[Bosco685]

USA Today seems a little more positive.

Review: 'Justice League' makes for a satisfying supergroup effort despite some bumps

Quote

Justice League is as solid an outing as any superhero fan could hope, with a clear family vibe: Wonder Woman and Batman prove to be a dynamic mom-and-dad duo while the fastest kid around steals the show.

 

A better effort than Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice and a worthy follow-up to runaway hit Wonder Woman, Justice League (*** out of four; rated PG-13; in theaters Thursday night) does the DC icons proud with some high-profile additions and a strong if unspectacular effort full of fun character moments. 

 

It’s also a product of two rather different filmmakers that, for the most part, ends up decently coherent. Director Zack Snyder (BvS, Man of Steel) again views his main characters through a way-dark palette and stylized lens, credited co-writer Joss Whedon (Avengers) — brought in to finish after Snyder stepped back due to a death in the family — adds his signature clever wit, and the result is an enjoyable romp with underlying emotion.

 

From sounds to characters, Justice is indeed served.

 

[Bosco685]

Yahoo has two reviews. One is from Variety, and the other from Uproxx..

'Justice League' review: Wonder Woman and the guys kick DC Universe back into gear

Quote

In superhero movies, sheer lively deliver-the-goods competence can be a quality you’re grateful for — or one that seems awesomely innocuous. In Justice League, it’s a little of both. The film is the definition of an adequate high-spirited studio lark: no more, no less. If fans get excited about it, that may mostly be because they’re excited about getting excited. Yet the movie is no cheat. It’s a tasty franchise delivery system that kicks a certain series back into gear.

 

Justice League, the latest link of Tinkertoy in the DC Comics universe, has been conceived, in each and every frame, to correct the sins of Batman v Superman. It’s not just a sequel — it’s an act of franchise penance. The movie, which gathers up half a dozen comic-book immortals and lets them butt heads on their way to kicking , is never messy or bombastic. It’s light and clean and simple (at times almost too simple), with razory repartee and combat duels that make a point of not going on too long. The villain, far from being one of those hammy Method crackpots, is a sternly old-school CGI medieval warrior with devil-ram horns and an electro-bass Vader voice (provided by Ciarán Hinds) whose name is Steppenwolf. He made his first appearance in the comics in 1972 but could just as well have been dreamed up by a slumming video-game designer after a night of no sleep.

 

The director, once again, is Zack Snyder, though Snyder parted ways with the project in March following the tragic suicide of his daughter. About four-fifths of principal photography had been completed, and the post-production process (including the rest of shooting) was overseen by Joss Whedon — a perfect choice, though a rather ironic one given that Whedon’s Avengers series competes directly with this one. Justice League is seamless enough that it’s hard to say where one filmmaker leaves off and the other begins. But the film’s flavor tilts more toward Whedon than Snyder, whose pop grandiosity is radically played down. Every moment feels like it’s been test-driven for our pleasure. As a piece of product,Justice League is superior to Batman v Superman, but it’s also about as close to generic as as a sharp-witted high-octane comic-book movie can get. There’s hardly a trope in it you haven’t seen before.

 

[Bosco685]

The UPROXX review.

'Justice League' Is A Drag And A Big Step Backwards For DC Movies

Quote

I am legitimately bummed out about how much I disliked Justice League.

 

There’s a line in Justice League when Bruce Wayne (Ben Affleck), in all sincerity, screams in frustration, “Do you think Steppenwolf is OUT TEACHING ETHICS?” First, it’s such a clunky line in a movie with a lot of clunky lines. (At one point Lois Lane tells Clark Kent, “You smell good.” Superman has been in a grave for the last few months, but I guess he smells good? This got a weird response from the screening room I was in. Also, let’s not pretend it’s a spoiler that Superman is in this movie. Henry Cavill is second-billed and has been doing press. I refuse to go along with this charade.) Second, for all I know Steppenwolf is teaching ethics because I still don’t know much more about him other than he likes to swing an axe.

 

I liked Zack Snyder’s Man of Steel quite a bit. I did not like Batman v Superman: Dawn Of Justice, but will concede it’s certainly Zack Snyder’s vision of what that movie should be. It’s not a particularly interesting vision, but it is a vision. Suicide Squad is barely a movie. Wonder Woman is fantastic and shows how good these movies can be. Justice League is a bit better than Batman v Superman – in that it at least moves along at an okay pace – but somehow it’s not as interesting. At least with Batman v Superman, we can dissect what Snyder is trying to say about these heroes. With Justice League being directed by both Snyder and Joss Whedon (who replaced Snyder late in production; only Snyder gets credited), we get a weird hybrid of styles that do not match up at all. There are movies like Rogue One and World War Z where entire swaths were famously reshot. But Justice League is weird because Whedon’s influence is sprinkled in – and it’s totally obvious where these Whedon sprinkles are. It would be like having a soup, then sprinkling the soup with basketballs. A scene will go from dreary serious, then all of a sudden switch to, “Hey, how about a joke?”

 

This Justice League in a post-Wonder Woman world is really a drag. Obviously, we all know the DC films will look radically different after Justice League as Warner Bros. takes these films in a new direction, but that doesn’t mean this movie isn’t a huge letdown.

 

[drotto]

I think one of the consistent problems WB is having is a result of them being impatient in wanting to catch up with Marvel.  When Marvel rolled out Avengers we had already had 4 solo movies.  The main players were established with Thor, Iron Man, and Captian.  To a lesser extent Black Widow, Loki and Hulk were also established.  There was no need for any origin stuff, and the actions of the main villain Loki and the nature of the teseract were already estiblished.  That made the move much simpler from a story perspective, and them coming together was organic, made sense and needed no explanation. 

 

DC sees Avengers and says ii want a 1.5 billi on dollar movie, because damn who wouldn't.  They had done MOS, but that was not really structured as part of a larger whole.  So they rushed into a borderline team movie in BvS, but found making it without the groundwork being done in earlier films that a lot of exposition needed to be done, leading to a somewhat confusing and disjointed film. They make WW an origin movie, much simpler and it is great.  Then they come back with JL and the movie has the same inherant problem as BvS.  How do you pack in so many new pieces without putting down the foundation first. Now this is not a problem with the hard core comic fans, because we know the stories, but makes it hard for general audiences.

 

So many people argued here and elsewhere that DC did not need to take the slower more methodical Marvel world builder approach, and it was just a different method to do the team up and then go small.  That now looks like a mistake, and may be the root to many of the issues they are having. You can't build a house without putting down the foundation, and that is basically what WB tried.

[Bosco685]

The score supposedly leaked. What horse *%^%!

'Justice League's Rotten Tomatoes Score Leaks Early

Quote

Well, we might have an idea now that the Rotten Tomatoes score for Justice League has accidentally leaked online on social media site Flixist. And the results are not pretty.

 

A Reddit user posted a screen cap of the Justice League score, showing that it currently sits with a 48 percent Fresh rating.

 

Of course, that could change as the film premieres and more critics go to see the screenings and finish their reviews. After all, Rotten Tomatoes originally wanted to hold the score back until the screenings began on Wednesday evening.

 

The film has also received its current Metacritic score, currently rated at 51/100.The aggregated reviews range from all over the map, with Richard Roeper's review coming in at 88/100, and the New York Times review ranked at 40/100.

 

Roeper called it "a putting-the-band-together origins movie, executed with great fun and energy," while the New York Times criticized it for being a "confusion of noise, visual clutter and murderous digital gnats, but every so often a glimmer of life flickers through."

 

[Gatsby77]

Not sure if this is credible, but hey - why not?

Comic Book.com is claiming that the RT score so far has leaked: http://comicbook.com/dc/2017/11/15/justice-league-rotten-tomatoes-score-leaks/

Puts it at 48%.

Even if this were the real thing it doesn't matter, as Forbes' Scott Mendelson has said the "critics screening" (where he will be watching it, among many others) isn't until tonight.

So they'll likely be a lot of movement between now and Sunday, at which point we should the score should have settled in with 130+ reviews tallied.

[Bosco685]

1 minute ago, Gatsby77 said:

Not sure if this is credible, but hey - why not?

 Look above.

[Gatsby77]

Just now, Bosco685 said:

 Look above.

Yessir.

But we cited the same source. Doesn't mean it's any more or less credible.

[Bosco685]

Just now, Gatsby77 said:

Yessir.

But we cited the same source. Doesn't mean it's any more or less credible.

You should go back and watch Man of Steel.