STAR WARS : The Force Awakens SPOILER Discussion

[JayT]

I read that article yesterday and thought it was kind of....I don't know, not incredibly enlightening BUT that might not be their fault, as I read the novelization a couple of weeks ago and I'm almost convinced that beyond a few physical details if anything was revealed in it, it was accidental because it's a spectacularly base, by the numbers, novelization (which tends to be the norm with novelizations, with one notable exception being the Revenge of the Sith novelization, which was the movie I wish we had.

[delekkerste]

Given that the entire First Order wanted him dead, I'm not seeing what makes him a deadbeat. Had they found him, they would have slaughtered her, too.

 

The Luke Skywalker I knew, the destroyer of the Death Star and one of the heroes of the Battle of Endor, would not have gone off and become a hermit while the First Order was coming to power, no matter what adversity, disappointment and/or threat he faced.

[JayT]

Given that the entire First Order wanted him dead, I'm not seeing what makes him a deadbeat. Had they found him, they would have slaughtered her, too.

 

The Luke Skywalker I knew, the destroyer of the Death Star and one of the heroes of the Battle of Endor, would not have gone and become a hermit while the First Order was coming to power.

 

I agree with this. This dude walked into Jabba's palace, and then walked into the powerbase of his enemy, Palpatine and Vader (the former being the greatest of the Sith ever by most literature of the time).

 

That's why I wondered if he had been somehow negated. I see no reason why he wouldn't just engage Kylo himself and have rendered him no longer a threat. The Kylo we saw in this movie could not stand against the Luke we know, and neither could Kylo and his troops. Snoke didn't seem to want any part.

 

Luke would be incredibly formidable, barring something is stopping him.

[fantastic_four]

Given that the entire First Order wanted him dead, I'm not seeing what makes him a deadbeat. Had they found him, they would have slaughtered her, too.

 

The Luke Skywalker I knew, the destroyer of the Death Star and one of the heroes of the Battle of Endor, would not have gone and become a hermit while the First Order was coming to power.

 

We neither know who he's up against (Snoke) nor what he went to that planet to find. All we know right now is that he left a map fragment behind with that guy on Jakku intended to lead someone to his location. Everything else is assumption on our part.

[CrocHntr]

Saw it again for the 2nd time, and I really enjoyed it again. It wasn't as overwhelming as my first viewing, so had a chance to process it a bit more. I'd highly recommend seeing it twice to get a better feel for it.

 

I enjoyed Finn much more this time. I still wasn't overly impressed with his character, but I didn't walk away feeling he fell flat this time. I missed the part about General Hux performing a "treasonous" act by replacing clones with recruits taken away from their parents at a young age and trained to be stormtroopers. It didn't make sense that of all the stormtroopers in the galaxy, there would be only one that developed a conscience. But I guess since only Hux's troopers aren't clones, it seems more believable.

 

Question though ~ After finally finding Luke's whereabouts, why wouldn't Leia go herself to see her long lost brother? I realize that Rey is most likely related, but if I had found my long lost sibling, I'd be the first to go see them. I know...nitpicking .

 

I can't wait for the next one!

 

 

[jsilverjanet]

Given that the entire First Order wanted him dead, I'm not seeing what makes him a deadbeat. Had they found him, they would have slaughtered her, too.

 

The Luke Skywalker I knew, the destroyer of the Death Star and one of the heroes of the Battle of Endor, would not have gone and become a hermit while the First Order was coming to power.

 

I agree with this. This dude walked into Jabba's palace, and then walked into the powerbase of his enemy, Palpatine and Vader (the former being the greatest of the Sith ever by most literature of the time).

 

That's why I wondered if he had been somehow negated. I see no reason why he wouldn't just engage Kylo himself and have rendered him no longer a threat. The Kylo we saw in this movie could not stand against the Luke we know, and neither could Kylo and his troops. Snoke didn't seem to want any part.

 

Luke would be incredibly formidable, barring something is stopping him.

 

Let's not forget he's older and could possibly be not as strong as he once was.

[fantastic_four]

I missed the part about General Hux performing a "treasonous" act by replacing clones with recruits taken away from their parents at a young age and trained to be stormtroopers. It didn't make sense that of all the stormtroopers in the galaxy, there would be only one that developed a conscience. But I guess since only Hux's troopers aren't clones, it seems more believable.

 

The stormtroopers from Episode IV through VI aren't clones either. Or at least they're not all clones; many of them are different heights and have different voices. Some of them might be clones--that's never made totally clear.

 

[fantastic_four]

Given that the entire First Order wanted him dead, I'm not seeing what makes him a deadbeat. Had they found him, they would have slaughtered her, too.

 

The Luke Skywalker I knew, the destroyer of the Death Star and one of the heroes of the Battle of Endor, would not have gone and become a hermit while the First Order was coming to power.

 

I agree with this. This dude walked into Jabba's palace, and then walked into the powerbase of his enemy, Palpatine and Vader (the former being the greatest of the Sith ever by most literature of the time).

 

That's because nobody knew who he was besides Sidious and Vader and the Jedi were thought to be extinct. Now that Sidious and Vader are gone, Snoke and the First Order know he's the last hope for the Jedi and want him explicitly dead. No more flying under the radar.

[fantastic_four]

Abrams kind of glossed over this, but wasn't the planet that the starkiller base destroyed the main base for the New Republic? Does that mean that the New Republic is now crippled and/or gone, leaving only the Resistance (and whatever power yielded by the secrets Luke is getting from the Jedi temple) to oppose the First Order?

[JayT]

The composition of Imperial Stormtroopers during the Dark Times regarding the ratio of clones and birthed recruits is actually a matter of official canon now. Even before we watched a movie, at the Battle of Yavin (which occured in the first film) the clones were decommissioned throughout the Empire, minus a handful of stragglers.

 

We are seeing real/birthed people in the OT as Stormtroopers.

 

Remember, that these clones have an accelerated aging process.

 

Abrams kind of glossed over this, but wasn't the planet that the starkiller base destroyed the main base for the New Republic? Does that mean that the New Republic is now crippled and/or gone, leaving only the Resistance (and whatever power yielded by the secrets Luke is getting from the Jedi temple) to oppose the First Order?_

 

Yes and the fleet.

[fantastic_four]

The composition of Imperial Stormtroopers during the Dark Times regarding the ratio of clones and birthed recruits is actually a matter of official canon now. Even before we watched a movie, at the Battle of Yavin (which occured in the first film) the clones were decommissioned throughout the Empire, minus a handful of stragglers.

 

We are seeing real/birthed people in the OT as Stormtroopers.

 

Did Lucas get confused over this? In "A New Hope" when Luke rescues Leia, she says to him "aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?" Why would he be short? They were all different heights. It almost suggests they're all clones, but as you pointed out they later established that wasn't the case.

 

The particularly weird thing is that Lucas eventually cast Jango Fett with a 5' 8" actor, the same height as Mark Hamill. So even if they were clones, Hamill was the exact right height to be a clone.

[kagenish]

The composition of Imperial Stormtroopers during the Dark Times regarding the ratio of clones and birthed recruits is actually a matter of official canon now. Even before we watched a movie, at the Battle of Yavin (which occured in the first film) the clones were decommissioned throughout the Empire, minus a handful of stragglers.

 

We are seeing real/birthed people in the OT as Stormtroopers.

 

Did Lucas get confused over this? In "A New Hope" when Luke rescues Leia, she says to him "aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?" Why would he be short? They were all different heights. It almost suggests they're all clones, but as you pointed out they later established that wasn't the case.

 

The particularly weird thing is that Lucas eventually cast Jango Fett with a 5' 8" actor, the same height as Mark Hamill. So even if they were clones, Hamill was the exact right height to be a clone.

in the show star wars rebels you learn that the empire is no longer using clones but are recuriting from a young age.

[JayT]

The composition of Imperial Stormtroopers during the Dark Times regarding the ratio of clones and birthed recruits is actually a matter of official canon now. Even before we watched a movie, at the Battle of Yavin (which occured in the first film) the clones were decommissioned throughout the Empire, minus a handful of stragglers.

 

We are seeing real/birthed people in the OT as Stormtroopers.

 

Did Lucas get confused over this? In "A New Hope" when Luke rescues Leia, she says to him "aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?" Why would he be short? They were all different heights. It almost suggests they're all clones, but as you pointed out they later established that wasn't the case.

 

The particularly weird thing is that Lucas eventually cast Jango Fett with a 5' 8" actor, the same height as Mark Hamill. So even if they were clones, Hamill was the exact right height to be a clone.

 

I'm guessing that a wrong stereotype for soldiers would be that they were big or at least larger than Luke, who is kind of scrawny. Idk, I just assumed she was saying (or telling us) he wasn't a very big dude.

 

It would be the other way around since the prequels came out before the animated series'.

 

I'd suggest Lucas just cast who he wanted and the Clone Wars/Rebels cartoon later did whatever they wanted to tell the best story, especially since some of their clones are some of their most beloved characters (Rex etc).

[Buzzetta]

This film is what I call a "Chinese food" movie (the James Bond film Skyfall is another I would put in this category). Tastes pretty good going down (while you're watching it), but doesn't really have enough substance to leave you satisfied for very long and doesn't hold up well to scrutiny. It was a visually sumptuous feast, but the plot was thin gruel and the storyline was so derivative that it was practically a remake. Rey is the new Luke. Jakku is the new Tatoonine. BB8 is the new R2D2 (seriously, another hidden hologram message?) Poe is the new Wedge. Kylo is the new Anakin/Vader. Snoke is the new Emperor. Starkiller Base is the new Death Star (I'm with you, Marmat. I mean, FFS - YET ANOTHER ONE??? ), the Resistance is the new Rebellion, the First Order is the new Empire, there's also a new Mos Eisley Cantina rip-off and Yavin clone that houses the Rebellion. At some point it's no longer homage and just plain lazy writing that doesn't take any chances. Kind of like when I heard the Bon Jovi album "New Jersey" for the first time back in the '80s - it was practically a song-for-song rip-off off their previous album "Slippery When Wet". That's how I felt about this film.

 

I was expecting to be greatly saddened by Han's death, but it was so obviously telegraphed, and by that point I was getting pretty annoyed by the whole movie, that it didn't really make a huge impact on me. And, yeah - Kylo sans helmet is just Adam from Girls in a goofy outfit. I also wish John Boyega had used his English accent, because he sounded annoyingly like a generic American Millennial to me in the film.

 

On the plus side, the visuals are just spectacular. And the actress who played Rey was quite good (though the way her character could do anything and everything first time from expertly fixing and flying a spaceship to wielding a lightsaber stretched the limits of credulity).

 

I didn't hate it, but I think they really need to throw the cookie-cutter away and give us an original film for the next installment. As gorgeous as the cinematography was, I liked this movie better the first time around when I saw it in 1977.

 

Gene, there was an article online that echoed these statements and went as far as to commend Lucas' prequels for being ambitious in trying something new. When it came to the prequels, the author felt that they were still subpar in comparison to the middle trilogy but that they showed how Lucas was not going to rehash his previous success and wanted to push Star Wars in a slightly different direction while still maintaining the storyline that had been alluded to in Episodes IV, V and VI.

 

As far as Ridley's character Rey being overly adept at multiple skills, I believe that is intentional in that she has had prior training with Luke or as a Jedi. It would be like growing up in a household other than English, then dumped into America where that other language was unnecessary. Eventually the individual loses practice of that second language. Once they are around others that speak that language or the need calls for it, that individual picks up on it again quicker than if they had to learn it from scratch.

 

I do not believe that the events unfolding in the Force Awakens were the first time that Rey was attuned to the Force. I believe that she was being trained as a Force user as a child and is rediscovering what she is capable of now.

[valiantman]

Given that the entire First Order wanted him dead, I'm not seeing what makes him a deadbeat. Had they found him, they would have slaughtered her, too.

 

The Luke Skywalker I knew, the destroyer of the Death Star and one of the heroes of the Battle of Endor, would not have gone and become a hermit while the First Order was coming to power.

 

I agree with this. This dude walked into Jabba's palace, and then walked into the powerbase of his enemy, Palpatine and Vader (the former being the greatest of the Sith ever by most literature of the time).

 

That's because nobody knew who he was besides Sidious and Vader and the Jedi were thought to be extinct. Now that Sidious and Vader are gone, Snoke and the First Order know he's the last hope for the Jedi and want him explicitly dead. No more flying under the radar.

 

The defeat of the Empire allowed the rise of the New Republic and the Rebellion continued (as allies, but not totally in agreement). The Empire wannabe First Order limps along for 30 years and a little Rebellion is all that's needed to end the 3rd Death Star Planet.

 

Luke attempted to create a Jedi Academy, only to have his students get it wrong and slaughter kids. Luke saw Obi Wan spend decades in isolation, doing nothing to help the Rebellion while the full Empire with Vader and the Emperor were in power.

 

What was Luke's purpose? Fight the Emperor, redeem Vader. Done. Next.

What would Luke being doing now? Train more Jedi? He tried. He failed.

What else might Luke be doing? Isolation, like Obi Wan.

 

Is there something else he should be doing? The Rebellion won.

The New Republic is governing-up the governing like a government does.

Snoke has succeeded (with Kylo) where Luke failed.

 

Luke searching for a way to succeed after his failure, in isolation, makes sense.

[Magneto]

All this talk about Rey being Luke's kid... But what if she was the child of both Luke and Leia? That might explain why she was abandoned on Jakku...you know... When they realized they were siblings.

[jsilverjanet]

[Magneto]

 

What? That would explain why Han had no idea who she was? Why Leia embraced her for so long... And it still makes the Star Wars trilogy all about the Skywalkers!

 

 

[NTHstars]

 

What? That would explain why Han had no idea who she was? Why Leia embraced her for so long... And it still makes the Star Wars trilogy all about the Skywalkers!

 

 

That's what's been missing. An incest storyline. It was right there in front of Lucas's face the whole time. It took Mickey Mouse to see it through.

 

 

[Comicopolis]

 

What? That would explain why Han had no idea who she was? Why Leia embraced her for so long... And it still makes the Star Wars trilogy all about the Skywalkers!

 

 

That's what's been missing. An incest storyline. It was right there in front of Lucas's face the whole time. It took Mickey Mouse to see it through.

 

 

It is called the Game of Thrones gambit.