Things I've learned about art and framing...

[Eric Seffinga]

I've often posted about my personal hangups in regards to framing over the years, and in various threads. I thought it was time to try and consolidate some of those thoughts, and that it might be topic people here would be interested in talking about. I didn't want to clog up the ongoing framing thread with this info.

 

My approach is certainly only one of many very valid ways to treat the work. This one just happens to work for my own needs. My apologies if one of the photos I've used as an example happens to belong to someone here. I promise, I'm not picking on anyone!

 

When I started collecting art in '92, there wasn't much for guidance on how to be a collector. How to go about starting up a collection, or how to maintain it. If the collectors of the 70s were the OA pilgrims, and the OA collectors of the 80s were it's Revolutionary period then the 90s for all intents, were the wild west days. People were finding gold, and exploring the terrain all on our own, and making it up as we went along. And like most collectors, I started out just buying the things that presented themselves and appealed to me. I had no sense or idea of the scope of what was out there in the world, and each piece was it's own discovery.

 

And every once in a while, I wanted to hand another of those trophies on the wall. So I'd take my art into the local frame shop and have them frame something up. The first couple, I was completely ignorant of the process and I let them pick out everything. Then I slowly started participating in the picking out of the materials.

 

Largely the way they pitched the approach was if it was a color piece, to find complimentary colors in the art, so that they would tie into the work. If black and white, then we could stick with that, or bring in whatever colors we wanted, since b&w "matches everything". And in that second lesson, they were completely right. But not necessarily in the way they intended. More on that as we continue.

 

Fast forward to the beginning of the Comicart-L. By this point, I had a good 15-20 framed pieces of art on the wall. All different frame materials. All different colors. They were like jewels all clumped together on my now, heaving walls.

 

The biggest aesthetic turning point for me was a discussion someone started, and in specific, a reply to the topic by Jeff Jones. This would have been maybe 1998 or so. And when asking for framing suggestions, Jeff's opinion was simple. Black frame. White mat. When pressed for an explanation, Jeff asserted that it interfered the least with viewing the artwork. Anything else was interfering.

 

And after reading this, I started to evaluate what he said. Looking at the pieces on my wall, they did seem to be quite a jumble, and mish mash. Each frame was singing in unison with the piece it held, but side by side, they were competing voices. And what's more, I noticed what I had done in several instances was tantamount to "extending" the visuals of the art.

 

I saw this image this morning on another board about art, and it's what got me to thinking about the topic again.

 

It is very pretty on first blush. Beautiful wood. Complimentary color choices. What's not to like?

So then for giggles, I took it into Photoshop to apply the B&W look.

 

 

And there it is. Look at the actual framed image above, and then the simple b&w below. Which one REALLY does the best at it's job, which Jones professed, and then later I would begin to believe is to display the art. What the fancy wood and matching colors do here, is become part of the art. In a way they re robbing a bit of the art's impact by competing with it. I really do prefer to look at and appreciate the art by the artist moreso than the container that is holding it.

 

And I became a believer as the years went on after that. I started framing any new pieces using that thought process. And to my amazement it had several benefits.

 

For one thing, when all my frames were black, I no longer had all these framed objects competing with each other. Wood burls, and cherry wood, and white and black and silver and golds. In essence the frames were battling each other on the wall, and it with the black, it started to look more like professional display, rather than a smattering of objects tossed together.

 

I had comic pages with black mats, red mats, green mats. Stuff that tied to the characters in the books, but on the wall, it made my house look like romper room. By simplifying the approach, a lot of the guesswork went away. To inject personality, I do occasionally still tend to pick a frame by the personality of what is being framed, but I keep it to a black finish, and I try to not choose something that looks obnoxious to me, or calls too much attention to itself.

 

I wish I had taken and kept photos of my old collection on the wall, as it would have been very helpful to show. Since I don't though, I found something online that is a fair representation of what my old walls were once like.

I can completely relate to this… And then a poor bash up of the b&w approach in it's place…

 

 

 

And lastly with just a touch of something on the wall other than stark white…

 

 

 

To me, I look at the first pic and the last one, and it's pretty self explanatory. I'm sure there are others would disagree, and that's totally valid.

 

 

But the second big knock on effect for me, was I now have the ability to move pieces around the house. Place them on different colors. And they still work. As the framers mentioned way back when, black and white matches everything. They meant the art, but I mean the mats and frames.

 

The following are all my photos from in my house, and when I have pieces on a white wall

 

 

 

they can go on a green one

 

 

a red one

 

 

this accent wall is actually metallic bronze

 

 

And the paper's type, tone, method, are a bit erroneous. It still helps unify the content and keep the attention squarely on the object of focus…

 

 

And the third benefit in my eyes is it takes a good amount of the guesswork and fretting over the choices out of the equation. There are still choices to be made, but they aren't quite so tough.

 

So that's my spiel.

I'm sharing it here because it was an expensive lesson for me to get to this point. I've reframed probably 8 or 9 of those original pieces. Others were sold off, and nobody usually likes other people's framing jobs anyway.

 

I still have a handful of originally framed pieces in my house that look OK, but would like to convert over. I've just been lazy and something else always distracts the money from that purpose. But hopefully one day I'll get around to it. It's been interesting the few times I've reframed a piece and seen a change from one way of living with it to another. Doing away with color mats frequently has made the colors pop so much more, or refocused details in the linework or page. In some ways it's like rediscovering the art all over again.

 

One caveat I should add to my b&w approach. When I pick white mats for my frames, sometimes I pick a slightly warmer off-white mat if the page is way way off white. Some white mats are just to harsh or cold. And when viewed from 10 feet away or in different rooms, the eye doesn't notice the mats in the room aren't the same white.

 

Also, I don't do the salon style hangings anymore (everything randomly grouped close together, with frames above and below), like that very first pic. I've found I much prefer to hang less, and have more air around the work. It really works for me, and makes a big difference in the way I see it and my enjoyment of it. Subliminally, I think it lends more weight to the individual when they are given that room to visually breathe.

 

 

Would love to hear (and see) other people's approaches to their OA display choices.

Plus I just love seeing how people live with their collections in situ.

 

 

[Bionic Bigfoot]

Great article, thanks for taking the time to share your framing experience. I took away some very important tips and confirmed some opinions I shared.

 

Troy R. Kinunen

[Twanj]

looks great.

 

I prefer minimal & b&w too.

 

I've never gotten 11x17 comic art framed. what kinda $ range are we talking?

 

I'd been thinking of ordering some of the stuff mentioned from the other framing thread or looking for stuff at a local craft store.

[Bird]

looks great.

 

I prefer minimal & b&w too.

 

I've never gotten 11x17 comic art framed. what kinda $ range are we talking?

 

I'd been thinking of ordering some of the stuff mentioned from the other framing thread or looking for stuff at a local craft store.

 

with coupons, the best glass and such will run about $80-$100 at Michaels.

 

I too favor the Jeff Jones method of framing.

[Pete Marino]

looks great.

 

I prefer minimal & b&w too.

 

I've never gotten 11x17 comic art framed. what kinda $ range are we talking?

 

I'd been thinking of ordering some of the stuff mentioned from the other framing thread or looking for stuff at a local craft store.

 

with coupons, the best glass and such will run about $80-$100 at Michaels.

 

I too favor the Jeff Jones method of framing.

 

I always do my best to support local framer's. Even down here in bumble-you know what NJ, I was able to find a good framer that's used to handling expensive art and photos with insurance.

 

The price is a little more, but IMO it's worth it for the quality of work + knowing my art is safe while it's out of my hands.

[Nexus]

Great post, a real service to collectors.

 

My experience was very similar. When I decided to get my art framed, my first instinct was to go basic: white mat, black frame. I like that simple aesthetic. But then I doubted myself...would these frames be too boring? Is white mat/black frame too stark for color art?

 

This was further reinforced by visiting fellow collectors and seeing how they hung their art. Salon-style with frames to match each individual piece. Much like the picture in your post.

 

I was advised to hand everything over to the framer and let him make the decisions. I can't complain, the work was excellent...but they just didn't suit me. So now 90% of my framed art is put away and not on the walls.

 

I'll eventually get everything reframed. But it's been an expensive lesson. Hopefully, your post saves other collectors from having to learn it on their own.

[Eric Seffinga]

It would be great if people find it useful, or even spurns on further discussion of the topic. I've seen some beautifully presented and thoughtful salon-style presentations in people's homes, but it is so hard to do well. And I fear I have a touch of the OCD that reins in any thoughts of doing it myself.

 

I'm a bit envious of those that either can, or don't really care or notice. Mostly because, hey more wall space. What art collector/addict doesn't want that?

 

As for costs of framing the typical 11" x 17" OA piece. It really is dependent on a great many factors. These can range from

Where are you located?

For example: if you live in NYC it's likely going to be more than if you live in smalltown Kentucky. And who do you have avilable for shops. Some places only have the big box stores to do their framing these days. And not all mom & pop local shops are created equal. If you are in it for the long term, it's good to look around and forge a real relationship with your framer of choice. Additionally, if you are in earthquake country, you'll likely prefer plexi to glass, just in case something comes off the wall. Something like a Museum Plexi can cost more than it's glass counterpart, but it can also be lighter.

 

What materials are you having the framer use?

For example: Choice of molding can vary drastically. $4 a linear foot or $40 a linear foot? Framing the same 11x17 page is going to cost 10 times more just in the molding, based on that kind of difference. Molding costs can be based on materials it's made of, it's level of finish and it's country of origin. And that's just the molding. There's mat board (single or double mat? Glass type (Museum, Nonglare, UV resistant, clear?) Floating or sandwiched down? Using japanese hinges, corners or some other method to affix? The same piece of art could be framed for $150 or $1200, it's totally up to your level of taste and finishing.

 

What is your goal when framing the piece?

Is it a quickie to get a piece on the wall? Is it a real personal grail that you want to make the most impact with? Are you framing it somewhere that it's going to see a lot of glare when hanging on the wall? How do you want to frame your pages. Some people like to see the indicia of the page, signatures and the like, so the top mat is all the way out at the edge of the board. I tend to like matting in to the crop area of a page, so instead of the full 11" x 17", I am more like 10" x 15" visual area. That means a slightly smaller frame on the wall.

 

These answers are going to be different for everyone. When I frame something, I do my best to keep it budget friendly, but I also do it knowing I intend to see it up forever (doesn't always work out that way, but I try). And with that in mind, I don't always go for the cheapest framing options. I'll use double thickness top mats for the sheer architectural presence they can give to a white on white piece. I want my stuff to look like it's being presented in a nice art gallery.

 

Sometimes my taste exceeds my wallet. Once, I saw the perfect black molding for a piece I was going to frame up. I checked the linear foot cost on it, and it was $120 a foot. And it wasn't some filigree floral thing. It was super clean and angular. Long story short, I quickly found an alternative that had a similar look, but it wasn't from Italy and it was more like $22 a linear foot.

 

And for options outside of the big box guys and local guys, I've also used places like pictureframes.com. Especially helpful if you are at all familiar with archival framing, or plan on doing more than a little framing, it can be worth it to learn how to do Japanese hinges. Then there is no need to let your pieces out of your sight. You put it together yourself with the materials they ship you. In some cases it's no cheaper than a frame shop, you just save yourself the strain or worry of what the shop is doing to your art. But it's not for everyone. For cheaper stuff, and gifts for friends, I often just order the frames and acid free mats from them. I cut my own backers, and get glass cut locally. I assemble, and hang.

 

 

 

[Bird]

looks great.

 

I prefer minimal & b&w too.

 

I've never gotten 11x17 comic art framed. what kinda $ range are we talking?

 

I'd been thinking of ordering some of the stuff mentioned from the other framing thread or looking for stuff at a local craft store.

 

with coupons, the best glass and such will run about $80-$100 at Michaels.

 

I too favor the Jeff Jones method of framing.

 

I always do my best to support local framer's. Even down here in bumble-you know what NJ, I was able to find a good framer that's used to handling expensive art and photos with insurance.

 

The price is a little more, but IMO it's worth it for the quality of work + knowing my art is safe while it's out of my hands.

 

I don't leave the art with them. They size it up when I order it and they call me 2 weeks l later when the materials are ready. I bring the art in and they do it then. If it is busy I come back some other time.

 

Also from the Jeff Jones framing school...leave a little more mat on the bottom to encourage the eye to be pulled down through the art. On most 11x17 pieces I do 2 inches on the top three sides and 2.5 inches on the bottom. You really do not notice it but it works. The whole frame scheme is made to focus the eye on the art and has quite a bit of science behind it.

 

One of my major regrets is joining the comicart-l groups just after Jeff Jones and a few other professionals stop posting, but mostly Jeff Jones.

[Bird]

It would be great if people find it useful, or even spurns on further discussion of the topic. I've seen some beautifully presented and thoughtful salon-style presentations in people's homes, but it is so hard to do well. And I fear I have a touch of the OCD that reins in any thoughts of doing it myself.

 

I'm a bit envious of those that either can, or don't really care or notice. Mostly because, hey more wall space. What art collector/addict doesn't want that?

 

As for costs of framing the typical 11" x 17" OA piece. It really is dependent on a great many factors. These can range from

Where are you located?

For example: if you live in NYC it's likely going to be more than if you live in smalltown Kentucky. And who do you have avilable for shops. Some places only have the big box stores to do their framing these days. And not all mom & pop local shops are created equal. If you are in it for the long term, it's good to look around and forge a real relationship with your framer of choice. Additionally, if you are in earthquake country, you'll likely prefer plexi to glass, just in case something comes off the wall. Something like a Museum Plexi can cost more than it's glass counterpart, but it can also be lighter.

 

What materials are you having the framer use?

For example: Choice of molding can vary drastically. $4 a linear foot or $40 a linear foot? Framing the same 11x17 page is going to cost 10 times more just in the molding, based on that kind of difference. Molding costs can be based on materials it's made of, it's level of finish and it's country of origin. And that's just the molding. There's mat board (single or double mat? Glass type (Museum, Nonglare, UV resistant, clear?) Floating or sandwiched down? Using japanese hinges, corners or some other method to affix? The same piece of art could be framed for $150 or $1200, it's totally up to your level of taste and finishing.

 

What is your goal when framing the piece?

Is it a quickie to get a piece on the wall? Is it a real personal grail that you want to make the most impact with? Are you framing it somewhere that it's going to see a lot of glare when hanging on the wall? How do you want to frame your pages. Some people like to see the indicia of the page, signatures and the like, so the top mat is all the way out at the edge of the board. I tend to like matting in to the crop area of a page, so instead of the full 11" x 17", I am more like 10" x 15" visual area. That means a slightly smaller frame on the wall.

 

These answers are going to be different for everyone. When I frame something, I do my best to keep it budget friendly, but I also do it knowing I intend to see it up forever (doesn't always work out that way, but I try). And with that in mind, I don't always go for the cheapest framing options. I'll use double thickness top mats for the sheer architectural presence they can give to a white on white piece. I want my stuff to look like it's being presented in a nice art gallery.

 

Sometimes my taste exceeds my wallet. Once, I saw the perfect black molding for a piece I was going to frame up. I checked the linear foot cost on it, and it was $120 a foot. And it wasn't some filigree floral thing. It was super clean and angular. Long story short, I quickly found an alternative that had a similar look, but it wasn't from Italy and it was more like $22 a linear foot.

 

And for options outside of the big box guys and local guys, I've also used places like pictureframes.com. Especially helpful if you are at all familiar with archival framing, or plan on doing more than a little framing, it can be worth it to learn how to do Japanese hinges. Then there is no need to let your pieces out of your sight. You put it together yourself with the materials they ship you. In some cases it's no cheaper than a frame shop, you just save yourself the strain or worry of what the shop is doing to your art. But it's not for everyone. For cheaper stuff, and gifts for friends, I often just order the frames and acid free mats from them. I cut my own backers, and get glass cut locally. I assemble, and hang.

 

 

 

 

You da'man. I can't seem to even get the next two out of the closet and to the framers!

[JadeGiant]

Great thread – this provides a lot of food for thought as I am contemplating a display myself. Anxious to see how other collectors weigh in – especially if display pictures are included. Thanks for posting!

[Matches_Malone]

Great Info

[Dick O.]

I feel that black frame with black mat interferes least and focuses attention on the artwork best. All my OA is framed that way, with uniform frames and width of mats around the artwork.

[Dick O.]

If I want to display the entire page (i.e. edges of the page and all production notes in the borders visible), I'll have the page mounted directly onto a black board and float the glass an inch or so above it.

[TMNT]

I feel that black frame with black mat interferes least and focuses attention on the artwork best. All my OA is framed that way, with uniform frames and width of mats around the artwork.

 

I'm partial to the black on black as well...

[J.Sid]

Black and white? Black and black? Bah! Salon-style rules!

 

 

A couple of tips for those attempting:

 

1. Think of the wall as a whole before you start hanging. Google "salon style framing" for inspiration before you start. Figure out what you like and what looks horrendous. I like to align all the top edges of the top row and then let other items fall beneath to different depths on the wall.

 

2. Buy / frame artwork of various sizes and stagger them. If you have a bunch of 11x17 pages, you can vary their sizes by having frames & mats of different withs. (Bonus! This is a good excuse to go out and buy that 5x8 Mignola sketch and 8.5x11 Bruce Timm color pinup you've always wanted)

 

3. Keep the spacing between the frames roughly the same. Don't have one gap 4" wide and another gap 1" wide. Keep them all consistent. Not going to work out? You're in luck--see point #4

 

4. You will inevitably end up with some wonky weird spaces. Stop stressing and embrace them. Don't limit yourself to Comic Art to fill out the wall. Clocks, sconces, shelves, action figures, wall decals, framed albums, CGC Comics, autographed baseballs, license plates, light sabers... Odd-shaped items are great for filling in those uneven holes you'll find yourself with, and they generally cost a lot less than the comic art they are hanging next to.

 

 

[Brian Peck]

I like having the constancy and use black frames for al my artwork. I have a few exceptions but those are pieces already framed. I have replaced already framed art with black frames, some like the Gonzalez Vampirella is just too big to do.

For colour pieces, take my cues from the artwork when selecting colours for the double mattes. With B&W inked pieces I like to use grey matte on top with white matte underneath, both having black cores. The grey makes the inked black and white art standout and the black cores frame out the inked artwork.

 

 

 

[alxjhnsn]

FWIW, I'm a black frame guy. I use 2 mats. A white one on top and a second one showing just an edge of color (usually black). Here are my walls:

 

My study

• Left wall
  
  
• Right wall
  
  
• Back wall
  

 

The Den

 

The MBR

 

In the MBR, the Sheldon Mayer piece came to me framed. The other two pieces I framed when I was young.

[AnkurJ]

Great post! Here are a few pieces I have framed. I kept the art in the mylar. All archival materials with museum glass. Cost was $125 each which I thought was very reasonable. There is a spacer between the mat and the art to give the piece some nice depth.

 

 

[glendgold]

Great topic. I like J Sid's advice above. When I first had an office I could decorate, I had the Gertrude Stein model in mind, but it just ended up looking hoarder-ish and insane. I've migrated slowly to black frames, white mats, just like Jeffrey suggested. (I remember her insistence on that -- it was both funny and right.) The exception is that I have some stuff MOCA framed for the Masters of American Comics show -- they did these floating in an unpainted wooden frame, to show off the production marks and to display comic art with all its commercial markings. I kept those as they had them.

[shockmatrix]

Great post! Here are a few pieces I have framed. I kept the art in the mylar. All archival materials with museum glass. Cost was $125 each which I thought was very reasonable. There is a spacer between the mat and the art to give the piece some nice depth.

 

Look great and an amazing price! $125 is what it cost me to frame 12 years ago. Current prices in San Francisco from conservation framers are around $250-300 for a quality wood, acrylic UV non-glare, preservation matting frame for an 11x17 standard page.

 

The biggest piece of advice I can offer to someone is to request a complete breakdown to 1/16" of an inch of all the matting, bevel, frame measurements as well as frame/mat manufacturers and part numbers. I had a heck of a time trying to match up a few pieces I framed a decade ago.