Showcase #4 9.8 on Comic Connect - sold for 15k

[entalmighty1]

Color touch or complete recreation, the books is now so much mulch in my eyes.

 

And that is only because you can afford pretty much anything you want in the way of comics.

 

Most can't, so it becomes degrees of acceptance.

 

Like I said, damn elitist.

 

Exactly. Some books are just completely out of reach for me. It would be a matter of saving for years without buying anything, so instead I look for the right book, maybe with slight color touch, or glue on the spine. I do have deal breakers. I don't mind tear seals, or color touch, but I will not knowingly buy a book that's trimmed, and I don't like tape or tape stains.

 

To each their own.

[Vorpal]

Color touch or complete recreation, the books is now so much mulch in my eyes.

 

Nobody has a problem with you or others having that opinion. You're certainly entitled to like what you like. We just have a problem when you aggressively express that opinion as the gospel truth during conversation, and use hyperbole and false equivalencies to attempt to strengthen your position.

 

P.S. - they're all mulch in the end

 

[Jaydogrules]

Color touch or complete recreation, the books is now so much mulch in my eyes.

 

Nobody has a problem with you or others having that opinion. You're certainly entitled to like what you like. We just have a problem when you aggressively express that opinion as the gospel truth during conversation, and use hyperbole and false equivalencies to attempt to strengthen your position.

 

P.S. - they're all mulch in the end

 

Welcome to the boards.

 

-J.

[tth2]

Color touch or complete recreation, the books is now so much mulch in my eyes.

 

Nobody has a problem with you or others having that opinion. You're certainly entitled to like what you like. We just have a problem when you aggressively express that opinion as the gospel truth during conversation, and use hyperbole and false equivalencies to attempt to strengthen your position.

 

P.S. - they're all mulch in the end

No need to get defensive, I wasn't attacking anyone or trying to force my bias against restored books on anyone.

 

All I was trying to understand was, if you ARE okay with restored books, then why are you not okay with TOTALLY restored books?

[StuporMan]

I'm still sticking with 85k...

 

1. As the market pumps $$$ into SA keys, average collectors, even above-average, will be pushed out by the whales. This will drive more into the restored market. It has already happened with Gold keys...

2. Not everyone views CBCS as inferior to CGC, there's going to be a bidder thinking they can pull that book out and get a census-topping CGC Resto 9.8

3. It's still a great looking book restored or not - it would make a nice addition to a museum collection.

4. Too much restoration to remove IMHO, but not everyone would think that way...

 

 

 

[entalmighty1]

Color touch or complete recreation, the books is now so much mulch in my eyes.

 

Nobody has a problem with you or others having that opinion. You're certainly entitled to like what you like. We just have a problem when you aggressively express that opinion as the gospel truth during conversation, and use hyperbole and false equivalencies to attempt to strengthen your position.

 

P.S. - they're all mulch in the end

No need to get defensive, I wasn't attacking anyone or trying to force my bias against restored books on anyone.

 

All I was trying to understand was, if you ARE okay with restored books, then why are you not okay with TOTALLY restored books?

 

Because there are always degrees of preference. You can't just make broad generalizations about people's likes and dislikes, because they vary so greatly.

 

If it was a key book that was out of my reach to obtain a blue label, I'd settle for the way more affordable purple label. Color touch, tear seals, glue, all fine. No trimming, no tape, that's my limit.

 

Everybody has their own criteria for acceptance of their possessions, whether collectibles, or refrigerators, or scarves.

[Iceman399]

I'm still sticking with 85k...

 

Hate to say it but not a chance. The Blue 7.5 is only at 30k currently and will likely not hit 85k. The 9.8 recreated is currently <5k. Be lucky if it breaks 40k IMO

[Gotham Kid]

I'm still sticking with 85k...

 

Hate to say it but not a chance. The Blue 7.5 is only at 30k currently and will likely not hit 85k.

 

85k for sure not but closer to 65-70k

[Vorpal]

Color touch or complete recreation, the books is now so much mulch in my eyes.

 

Nobody has a problem with you or others having that opinion. You're certainly entitled to like what you like. We just have a problem when you aggressively express that opinion as the gospel truth during conversation, and use hyperbole and false equivalencies to attempt to strengthen your position.

 

P.S. - they're all mulch in the end

No need to get defensive, I wasn't attacking anyone or trying to force my bias against restored books on anyone.

 

All I was trying to understand was, if you ARE okay with restored books, then why are you not okay with TOTALLY restored books?

 

Fair enough. I think everyone has their own take, but my preference (which I mentioned earlier in this thread) is to keep the book as original as possible while making it readable and enjoyable. "Enjoyable" is subjective and has to be taken on a case-by-case basis. An X-Men 1 with a missing masthead or an AF15 with a tape pull that took off Spidey's face are not enjoyable, IMO. One needs major piece fill and the other needs CT. Both may also need tear seals or some other restoration work to be safe to handle - or they may not. A Showcase 4 that has some spine ticks and a missing corner out of the FC doesn't need anything, IMO.

[VintageComics]

All I was trying to understand was, if you ARE okay with restored books, then why are you not okay with TOTALLY restored books?

 

I'm a visual snob, so I'd want my restored book to look great. If I were to restore a book I'd go all the way.

 

But there are so many variables. For one, the cost of the restoration. Most people laying out, let's say $10K for a Slight Resto copy or a low grade copy are often already stretching their budgets to accommodate and so sinking in another $2-3K might prevent them from getting something else that they also may want.

 

So they might just settle for the Slight copy in mid grade and 'compromise' and then hunt for the next big book rather than divesting more money into this copy.

 

Also, resto methods change over the years and they are not all equal.

 

Finally, the biggest discussion around these newly restored books is how to value them. Sure, they look great and I might want one, but how much should I pay for one?

 

It was much easier to do when you could quantify what grade the Slight book was in before resto.

 

So lots of variables.

[Moondog]

I can't help but think that creating this thing and putting it up for sale only works because it's slabbed. Out of a slab and in one's hands I can't believe that it "feels" like a real comic book. I asked this question directly to the "restorer" and she said it's completely "natural". But looking at it in a slab, it just looks too perfect - stiff and unnatural.

 

If this thing sells for more than $15,000 I will be shocked.

[Ghost Town]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but does anyone know how much of this book (and others like it) is part of the original book that came off the press? At least in regards to the cover.

 

Being the geek that I am, I love dinosaurs along with comic books. And when I read about various T-Rex specimens, the article usually mentions how complete a fossil is. For example, Sue the T-Rex is 85% complete which is very cool. Most of them are less than 50% complete, that's still cool given that that they're over 50 millions years old. But not quite as cool as 85% complete.

 

So is Barry the Flash 80% original, 60%, less? Anyone? Anyone?

[StuporMan]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but does anyone know how much of this book (and others like it) is part of the original book that came off the press? At least in regards to the cover.

 

Being the geek that I am, I love dinosaurs along with comic books. And when I read about various T-Rex specimens, the article usually mentions how complete a fossil is. For example, Sue the T-Rex is 85% complete which is very cool. Most of them are less than 50% complete, that's still cool given that that they're over 50 millions years old. But not quite as cool as 85% complete.

 

So is Barry the Flash 80% original, 60%, less? Anyone? Anyone?

 

Nothing is noted in the description, so your guess is as good as mine...

[lou_fine]

Same group that's been pumping out recreated GA books - that CGC won't grade.

 

CGC refused to call their work "professional" so they took their books to CBCS, who are basically the "Mikey" of the slabbing companies.

-J.

 

The fact that CGC will not give them a grade should says a lot about CGC and about the other company.

 

The fact the cgc is not grading these new igb books means their ext should still be viewed as they always have been.

 

good point!

and wise move that the CGC protects their brand by turning away these 9.8 clones.

 

Am I missing something since you guys make it sound as though CGG has actually made a final determination on the grading status of these books?

 

Last I heard from the GA thread on this subject was that CGC had not yet made a determination on the grading status of these books as they were no longer being submitted to CGC for grading. Prior to this submission change by IGB, CGC were in fact apparently grading these restored books from the Meyers. In fact, Matt Nelson was apparently working with the Meyers over a period of time to guide and help them to improve their restoration techniques.

 

With this guidance provided by Matt coupled with the techniques employed by the Meyers, they have now apparently managed to raise restoration to a new level not seen before. Unfortunately, it now appears that the Meyers had made a conscious decision to no longer submit these books to CGG for grading due to fear of losing proprietary knowledge to their CCS competitor. Totally understandable why Matt would be upset here since he was such a big help to these guys in the first place and help them to "perfect" their restoration technique.

 

I know that one of the concerns is that the restoration is apparently being done so well that they (i.e. Graders and even restoration detection experts) cannot tell where the original ends and the restoration begins. I believe one of the other board members call it a case of perfect restoration and wonder why this would be an issue as should this not be the goal of restoration. My own personal concern was that the Meyers might have been over painting or applying too much gloss since a couple of their books just appear to be too "shiny" for my visual taste. But who am I to say since I am no restoration expert.

 

Actually, all of these same point have already been covered in detail in the GA thread a couple months ago. The most interesting posts on this came directly from the Meyers and also Matt on this subject. In fact, if you wanted scans on a couple of the books, the Meyers were more than willing to post scans of the books prior to, during, and after their restoration process. Definitely did not look like they were recreating masterpieces from mere crumbs.

 

Probably in some ways, more like a case of maximizing the potential of restored books, similar to how pressing is maximizing the potential of unrestored books. The only difference is that the work on the restored books by the Meyers are disclosed and clearly designated as extensively restored while the pressing work on "unrestored" books continues to be hidden in the dark.

 

So, unless CGC has made an final and official determination on the grading status of these books, it would appear that it's not a case of CGC refusing to grade these books, but actually a case of IGB no longer submitting their books to CGC for grading at this point in time. They have also stated that their stance on not submitting to CGC could possibly change in the future.

[budsbundy]

Same group that's been pumping out recreated GA books - that CGC won't grade.

 

CGC refused to call their work "professional" so they took their books to CBCS, who are basically the "Mikey" of the slabbing companies.

-J.

 

The fact that CGC will not give them a grade should says a lot about CGC and about the other company.

 

The fact the cgc is not grading these new igb books means their ext should still be viewed as they always have been.

 

good point!

and wise move that the CGC protects their brand by turning away these 9.8 clones.

 

 

Actually, all of these same point have already been covered in detail in the GA thread a couple months ago. The most interesting posts on this came directly from the Meyers and also Matt on this subject. In fact, if you wanted scans on a couple of the books, the Meyers were more than willing to post scans of the books prior to, during, and after their restoration process. Definitely did not look like they were recreating masterpieces from mere crumbs.

 

Do you have a link where we can check out the before and after pics you are talking about?

[Gotham Kid]

here you go

 

poster: igb

[paul747]

I have one question.......... Is painting over or in place of ORIGINAL ART in a way that cant be removed considered restoration or recreation?

 

They obviously are talented artist but there are a ton of Talented artists , is this going to open the door for full scale "recreations" They are great to look at and probably going to create some competition for the books needed to make these renditions.

 

Time to get a new lable color going ------------ Resto-recreation --ORANGE LABEL. They should state what the book was before the remodel.

 

Value is another huge if... IF book cannot be reverted to x how can it be valued correctly? Its basically an irreversible artist rendition ? I mean how can it be worth tens of thousand of dollars ? Value is on how famous the artist is? I think these creations should be greatly DE-valued ! They are a totally different segment.

Great work, probably good people but there has to be a line

 

Get your airbrushes going kids , there's gold in them hills.

[paul747]

Same group that's been pumping out recreated GA books - that CGC won't grade.

 

CGC refused to call their work "professional" so they took their books to CBCS, who are basically the "Mikey" of the slabbing companies.

-J.

 

The fact that CGC will not give them a grade should says a lot about CGC and about the other company.

 

The fact the cgc is not grading these new igb books means their ext should still be viewed as they always have been.

 

good point!

and wise move that the CGC protects their brand by turning away these 9.8 clones.

 

Am I missing something since you guys make it sound as though CGG has actually made a final determination on the grading status of these books?

 

Last I heard from the GA thread on this subject was that CGC had not yet made a determination on the grading status of these books as they were no longer being submitted to CGC for grading. Prior to this submission change by IGB, CGC were in fact apparently grading these restored books from the Meyers. In fact, Matt Nelson was apparently working with the Meyers over a period of time to guide and help them to improve their restoration techniques.

 

With this guidance provided by Matt coupled with the techniques employed by the Meyers, they have now apparently managed to raise restoration to a new level not seen before. Unfortunately, it now appears that the Meyers had made a conscious decision to no longer submit these books to CGG for grading due to fear of losing proprietary knowledge to their CCS competitor. Totally understandable why Matt would be upset here since he was such a big help to these guys in the first place and help them to "perfect" their restoration technique.

 

I know that one of the concerns is that the restoration is apparently being done so well that they (i.e. Graders and even restoration detection experts) cannot tell where the original ends and the restoration begins. I believe one of the other board members call it a case of perfect restoration and wonder why this would be an issue as should this not be the goal of restoration. My own personal concern was that the Meyers might have been over painting or applying too much gloss since a couple of their books just appear to be too "shiny" for my visual taste. But who am I to say since I am no restoration expert.

 

Actually, all of these same point have already been covered in detail in the GA thread a couple months ago. The most interesting posts on this came directly from the Meyers and also Matt on this subject. In fact, if you wanted scans on a couple of the books, the Meyers were more than willing to post scans of the books prior to, during, and after their restoration process. Definitely did not look like they were recreating masterpieces from mere crumbs.

 

Probably in some ways, more like a case of maximizing the potential of restored books, similar to how pressing is maximizing the potential of unrestored books. The only difference is that the work on the restored books by the Meyers are disclosed and clearly designated as extensively restored while the pressing work on "unrestored" books continues to be hidden in the dark.

 

So, unless CGC has made an final and official determination on the grading status of these books, it would appear that it's not a case of CGC refusing to grade these books, but actually a case of IGB no longer submitting their books to CGC for grading at this point in time. They have also stated that their stance on not submitting to CGC could possibly change in the future.

 

I find your summary off a little. It could be taken the other way as well. Matt told them what they did not want to hear so they went somewhere else.

 

"I know that one of the concerns is that the restoration is apparently being done so well that they (i.e. Graders and even restoration detection experts) cannot tell where the original ends and the restoration begins. I believe one of the other board members call it a case of perfect restoration and wonder why this would be an issue as should this not be the goal of restoration. My own personal concern was that the Meyers might have been over painting or applying too much gloss since a couple of their books just appear to be too "shiny" for my visual taste. But who am I to say since I am no restoration expert."

 

 

I agree with your concerns , Is this restoration so well done that it is really just a RECREATION?

[krighton]

i'd rather have a non restored 2.0 than that Frankenstein's Monster.

[ThothAmon]

What's done in the dark will be brought to the light. What I find interesting is the lack of information being provided by either the Comic Connect or the restorer. With the info provided we are all only assuming it's IGB, albeit safely. I raised this same point when the frankenbook TEC27 thread was active. In that instance IGB responded in the thread. I think the outcome was the book was pulled before auction? Now, I can only imagine the conversation between the parties on how to respond and the fact that they have remained silent is troubling to me. Ultimately the question is, what person in their right mind would spend tens of thousands of dollars on a book with so many assumptions involved?