Showcase #4 9.8 on Comic Connect - sold for 15k

[StuporMan]

Still at $6800ish with 14 days left...

[StuporMan]

Comic connect had an Action 23 in CBCS 9.8 at the Big Apple Con also restored by the same group. I looked the book over and the work was VERY well done. I did not see any major areas of color touch. It also didn't appear that the color touch was thick or amaturish in the way it was applied. It should be interesting to see what these books go for.

 

Do you recall what this went for?

 

Only 1 AC23, same book.

 

At $2200 with 10 days left. I wonder if it will go much higher, maybe top out at 4k? I've seen CGC restored 6.0s go for around 2k.

[Mark 1]

That AC 9.8 is ridiculous. Sorry but these just look like compete repros. I like Steve and his company but this does make me shake my head in wonder

[VintageComics]

Comic connect had an Action 23 in CBCS 9.8 at the Big Apple Con also restored by the same group. I looked the book over and the work was VERY well done. I did not see any major areas of color touch. It also didn't appear that the color touch was thick or amaturish in the way it was applied. It should be interesting to see what these books go for.

 

I looked at the Batman #1 and a few of the others.

 

The books did look awesome in hand. They were stunning.

 

As far as simply appearance goes most of us have no idea what a 55 or a 75 year old comic book looked like when it was brand new.

 

Even if we saw them on the newsstand, the human memory is not very reliable or accurate. We'd remember them looking like they look today.

 

Even the Church and other Pedigree copies, no matter how well preserved they are, have aged some. And that is our paradigm.

 

I would think that if we were to take a time machine and walk past a newsstand in 1940 and see these books freshly printed hanging around for sale, we'd be inclined to believe they weren't real either.

 

We are so used to seeing 'Mint' books with 70 years worth of well preserved aging that imagining what a newsstand fresh copy looks like is near impossible.

 

 

[sacentaur]

But these aren't newstand fresh books and they never will be - they look fake because they are fake.

 

To validate such books with a 9.8 slab is beyond ridiculous (Fool's Gold and all that).

[Mark 1]

But these aren't newstand fresh books and they never will be - they look fake because they are fake.

 

To validate such books with a 9.8 slab is beyond ridiculous (Fool's Gold and all that).

 

This +1

 

And, I think most of us know what newsstand fresh books look like. There are plenty of high grade blue label GA and SA books to know what an almost prestine example looks like.

 

These might look newsstand fresh in the slab but I bet they don't feel newsstand fresh like a real comic.

[Gotham Kid]

But these aren't newstand fresh books and they never will be - they look fake because they are fake.

 

To validate such books with a 9.8 slab is beyond ridiculous (Fool's Gold and all that).

 

+1 million

[*matterus023*]

Everyone is entitled to their stance on restoration and what is right for them.

 

I just want to add that CGC have happily graded IGB's comics before hitting high high grades. 9.2's 9.4's etc

 

So people who are slamming CBCS you may have to slam CGC. I have heard some say CGC won't grade their stuff anymore. I haven't seen any proof of this myself. Not saying it isn't true but would be nice for CGC to quickly confirm it if so.

 

Matt and Emma from IGB explained previously why they moved to CBCS. To me it made complete sense and was more than respectful to CGC.

 

Their work, as some have mentioned is exceptional. Again I'm not going to get into a debate about levels of restoration as it should be something that each person is allowed to express without being told they are wrong.

 

CGC/CBCS/PGX all have these extensive resto copies before IGB came in to the market. If their work is just that good that CBCS and CGC have decided to give them super high grades then where is the issue. If you don't like that level of resto don't buy but if you do you would be in great hands with IGB. Other restorers I have spoke to talk to them and have a good relationship with them.

 

I have recently spoke to them about perhaps showing before and after pics or allowing people go and inspect their work. If you read their comments on the tec 33 thread it should come across that they are open with what they do and highly professional. Plus sure they said that if you wanted to get in touch then they would be happy to answer any questions people had.

 

My feelings on this is that many will eventually just have to bow down to the best restorers in the business. Time will tell

 

 

I have already been told by another member that I did myself no favours in standing behind IGB and their practices. I feel this was a very odd thing to say. I fail to see how me in the TEC 33 thread (if people have time to read my comments please do) defending someone from libellous comments made by SOME with no evidence to back it up, was doing my self 'no favours'. I must admit that made me laugh

 

 

 

[*matterus023*]

Plus I would quickly like to add I do not benefit financially from them.

 

My relationship with them is thus:-

 

I am based in the UK and put a small advert on preloved for comic collections. Someone got in touch with me. Couldn't work a price out on his collection but he sold me a ST110.

 

I saw on ebay a ST110 that had recently sold at 9.2 I think PGX extensive restoration. I asked the seller who did the work and it was Matt and Emma who I was speaking to. They kindly worked on my ST110 and I was over the moon with the finish.

 

Since then they have moved on to bigger and better things and to the best of my knowledge they don't have clients. But I have kept in touch. They are fun, passionate and kind people. These are the type of people I try to surround myself with. I have tried to find them comics for them to work on yes but in no way have I or would I except money for this. They have offered to sort me some comission if I helped sell some of their comics. Nothing out of place there. Unfortunately I don't have the righ contacts for this so in the end we left it.

 

I follow their career as I find it interesting and wish decent people the best of luck in life.

 

I am in no way disengenous and have had so much fun since I started collecting comics 4 years ago. Made some life long friends along the way as well.

 

A couple of people have touched upon how good they look and feel in person. I can not comment on this and never would as I haven't even been to the U.S in my life. But it seems others are happy to quickly jump in and try to say negative comments. If you have seen their work to hand comment away on your personal experience. If you haven't then stay classy San Diego

 

Drop the mic :-)

 

[*matterus023*]

Comic connect had an Action 23 in CBCS 9.8 at the Big Apple Con also restored by the same group. I looked the book over and the work was VERY well done. I did not see any major areas of color touch. It also didn't appear that the color touch was thick or amaturish in the way it was applied. It should be interesting to see what these books go for.

 

Do you recall what this went for?

 

Only 1 AC23, same book.

 

At $2200 with 10 days left. I wonder if it will go much higher, maybe top out at 4k? I've seen CGC restored 6.0s go for around 2k.

 

A recent CBCS 6.0 moderate resto with top edge trim went for $2600 so I see this easy topping $10k imo. A CGC 6.0 mod went for $1700 3 years ago before it was a really hot comic.

[VintageComics]

But these aren't newstand fresh books and they never will be - they look fake because they are fake.

 

Does anyone have a photo of a newsstand fresh Batman #1 or a Showcase #4 to compare? Personally, I have no idea what one would look like as I haven't seen one even though I've seen plenty of high grade examples. That's my point.

 

To validate such books with a 9.8 slab is beyond ridiculous (Fool's Gold and all that).

 

But the discussion is not about whether it's an actual 9.8 or not. It's about whether it's an apparent 9.8 or not.

 

 

[sacentaur]

But these aren't newstand fresh books and they never will be - they look fake because they are fake.

 

Does anyone have a photo of a newsstand fresh Batman #1 or a Showcase #4 to compare? Personally, I have no idea what one would look like as I haven't seen one even though I've seen plenty of high grade examples. That's my point.

 

Using such logic, then no one knows what a "newsstand fresh" book looks like, including the restorer.

 

We can however compare where the restorer relocated Bob Kane's signature on a book. Or where the restorer added a black line to the back cover spine of a WDC&S #1, where on the original it never existed.

 

You're making a straw-man point, Roy.

 

To validate such books with a 9.8 slab is beyond ridiculous (Fool's Gold and all that).

 

But the discussion is not about whether it's an actual 9.8 or not. It's about whether it's an apparent 9.8 or not.

 

We've already seen them marketed as "Better than original!" - I'm surprised they didn't get a 10.2 then.

 

Here you go big guy, knock yourself out.

 

 

 

 

[VintageComics]

My feelings on this is that many will eventually just have to bow down to the best restorers in the business. Time will tell

 

Best relative to what?

 

While I admit that the books look terrific that doesn't mean they look correct. I'll be honest, I don't know if they look correct as I haven't seen a newsstand fresh SC #4 or Batman #1 even though I've seen, sold and handled high grade examples.

 

That's why I'm asking what newsstand fresh copies look like from 75 and 55 years ago.

 

I have already been told by another member that I did myself no favours in standing behind IGB and their practices. I feel this was a very odd thing to say. I fail to see how me in the TEC 33 thread (if people have time to read my comments please do) defending someone from libellous comments made by SOME with no evidence to back it up, was doing my self 'no favours'. I must admit that made me laugh

 

Because your posts make it sound like you have a vested interest in IGB. You may or may not, but that's how they sound.

 

 

[Gotham Kid]

I have already been told by another member that I did myself no favours in standing behind IGB and their practices. I feel this was a very odd thing to say. I fail to see how me in the TEC 33 thread (if people have time to read my comments please do) defending someone from libellous comments made by SOME with no evidence to back it up, was doing my self 'no favours'. I must admit that made me laugh

 

Because your posts make it sound like you have a vested interest in IGB. You may or may not, but that's how they sound.

 

 

yup.

[VintageComics]

Using such logic, then no one knows what a "newsstand fresh" book looks like, including the restorer.

 

Correct.

 

You're making a straw-man point, Roy.

 

I'm trying to have a discussion to figure it out.

 

 

 

[sacentaur]

 

I have already been told by another member that I did myself no favours in standing behind IGB and their practices. I feel this was a very odd thing to say. I fail to see how me in the TEC 33 thread (if people have time to read my comments please do) defending someone from libellous comments made by SOME with no evidence to back it up, was doing my self 'no favours'. I must admit that made me laugh

 

Because your posts make it sound like you have a vested interest in IGB. You may or may not, but that's how they sound.

 

 

Exactly - as is usually the case in scenarios like this, there is more going on behind-the-scenes than meets the eye.

[*matterus023*]

 

I have already been told by another member that I did myself no favours in standing behind IGB and their practices. I feel this was a very odd thing to say. I fail to see how me in the TEC 33 thread (if people have time to read my comments please do) defending someone from libellous comments made by SOME with no evidence to back it up, was doing my self 'no favours'. I must admit that made me laugh

 

Because your posts make it sound like you have a vested interest in IGB. You may or may not, but that's how they sound.

 

 

Exactly - as is usually the case in scenarios like this, there is more going on behind-the-scenes than meets the eye.

 

I have a vested interest in comics and all related. Someone telling me that I haven't done my self any favours by standing behind IGB is a ridiculous thing to say. Lets just sayI did have a vested interest (which wouldn't matter) why does it feel that if I don't jump on the band wagon of all hail CGC then I have'nt done my self any favours? Why? I mean that statement alone kind of tells me that if you don't agree with what certain members think then you will be a target.

 

Plus like I have said on the TEC 33 thread which I employ people to read, my comments are defending someone who was being bad mouthed and ridiculed by pathetic, immature, rude individuals. I did not say I know the quality of their work on that thread and I know from first hand experience it is amazing use them. Anyone can check that out. I simply told others who where acting like 10 year old kids to stop the school ground antics.

 

I just didn't like the petty immature comments being thown out there. If that means that I haven't done myself any favours it shows me what sort of forum this is.

 

I came on here hoping to speak to some wise comic collectors, have a laugh and buy some great stuff. Which I have but it is getting more and more political by the day. If you don't like something don't buy it, if you don't like someone's methods fine, but don't talk mess about someone without even having bought a single comic from them, spoke to them personally and found out about their methods. I know some on here have been speaking behind my back telling people to not sell to me or respond to my threads as well

 

Seems to me CGC feel threatened by any new talent and get their minions to bad mouth other competitors. Some of the other big names in restoration are sick of getting their work back from CGC as B quality as well. Seems only the guys at CCS are professional in what they do

[*matterus023*]

My feelings on this is that many will eventually just have to bow down to the best restorers in the business. Time will tell

 

''Best relative to what?

 

While I admit that the books look terrific that doesn't mean they look correct. I'll be honest, I don't know if they look correct as I haven't seen a newsstand fresh SC #4 or Batman #1 even though I've seen, sold and handled high grade examples.

 

That's why I'm asking what newsstand fresh copies look like from 75 and 55 years ago. ''

 

 

Hi

 

 

I feel that IGB have took restoration to the next level. Take the super high grade stuff out of it for a minute. I would be very interested myself for them to have an identical comic to say CCS (I am aware this isn't 100% possible) at around a 3.0 grade say moderate resto and see who could get to it to around a 7.0 extensive say and use the best materials, have the best methods, who understands the real science behind it all and who is overall the most talented.

 

I don't know the answer and I know the response coming my way. But imo it would be interesting to have some experts in the field judge their work and give their honest opinions.

[seanfingh]

 

I have already been told by another member that I did myself no favours in standing behind IGB and their practices. I feel this was a very odd thing to say. I fail to see how me in the TEC 33 thread (if people have time to read my comments please do) defending someone from libellous comments made by SOME with no evidence to back it up, was doing my self 'no favours'. I must admit that made me laugh

 

Because your posts make it sound like you have a vested interest in IGB. You may or may not, but that's how they sound.

 

 

Exactly - as is usually the case in scenarios like this, there is more going on behind-the-scenes than meets the eye.

 

I have a vested interest in comics and all related. Someone telling me that I haven't done my self any favours by standing behind IGB is a ridiculous thing to say. Lets just sayI did have a vested interest (which wouldn't matter) why does it feel that if I don't jump on the band wagon of all hail CGC then I have'nt done my self any favours? Why? I mean that statement alone kind of tells me that if you don't agree with what certain members think then you will be a target.

 

Plus like I have said on the TEC 33 thread which I employ people to read, my comments are defending someone who was being bad mouthed and ridiculed by pathetic, immature, rude individuals. I did not say I know the quality of their work on that thread and I know from first hand experience it is amazing use them. Anyone can check that out. I simply told others who where acting like 10 year old kids to stop the school ground antics.

 

I just didn't like the petty immature comments being thown out there. If that means that I haven't done myself any favours it shows me what sort of forum this is.

 

I came on here hoping to speak to some wise comic collectors, have a laugh and buy some great stuff. Which I have but it is getting more and more political by the day. If you don't like something don't buy it, if you don't like someone's methods fine, but don't talk mess about someone without even having bought a single comic from them, spoke to them personally and found out about their methods. I know some on here have been speaking behind my back telling people to not sell to me or respond to my threads as well

 

Seems to me CGC feel threatened by any new talent and get their minions to bad mouth other competitors. Some of the other big names in restoration are sick of getting their work back from CGC as B quality as well. Seems only the guys at CCS are professional in what they do

 

These comments are inflammatory. As I did in the last thread, I will not attack you or your ideas, but I will tell you, they are inflammatory. The level and extent of resto in these books is unprecedented. Resto is a super hot topic amongst long time collectors, because of the amount of money that these older books are worth, and because of the spread between the market value of unrestored and restored books.

 

When you say that "only CCS are professional in what they do" that is inflammatory. So is the word "minions." It lowers your credibility and it makes it look like YOU are the one who is a minion of the IGB gravy train.

 

I will tell you - I have never been interested in Golden Age comics. They have no nostalgia for me. But the concept of taking a ragged POS copy and turning it into a Voldemort 9.8 (factoring in the issues of extreme glossing and thickness which may or may not be happening) is fascinating to me. It seems wrong to me, but maybe it isn't. I like to read the discussions and try to suss out where everyone is coming from in order to form my own opinion.

 

Hegel's dialectic of thesis + antithesis = synthesis applies (at least for me) in many of these super touchy topics. The skeptics and the cheerleaders help everyone out in determining what their position is.

 

It is a valuable process. Please consider that going forward.

[*matterus023*]

 

I have already been told by another member that I did myself no favours in standing behind IGB and their practices. I feel this was a very odd thing to say. I fail to see how me in the TEC 33 thread (if people have time to read my comments please do) defending someone from libellous comments made by SOME with no evidence to back it up, was doing my self 'no favours'. I must admit that made me laugh

 

Because your posts make it sound like you have a vested interest in IGB. You may or may not, but that's how they sound.

 

 

Exactly - as is usually the case in scenarios like this, there is more going on behind-the-scenes than meets the eye.

 

I have a vested interest in comics and all related. Someone telling me that I haven't done my self any favours by standing behind IGB is a ridiculous thing to say. Lets just sayI did have a vested interest (which wouldn't matter) why does it feel that if I don't jump on the band wagon of all hail CGC then I have'nt done my self any favours? Why? I mean that statement alone kind of tells me that if you don't agree with what certain members think then you will be a target.

 

Plus like I have said on the TEC 33 thread which I employ people to read, my comments are defending someone who was being bad mouthed and ridiculed by pathetic, immature, rude individuals. I did not say I know the quality of their work on that thread and I know from first hand experience it is amazing use them. Anyone can check that out. I simply told others who where acting like 10 year old kids to stop the school ground antics.

 

I just didn't like the petty immature comments being thown out there. If that means that I haven't done myself any favours it shows me what sort of forum this is.

 

I came on here hoping to speak to some wise comic collectors, have a laugh and buy some great stuff. Which I have but it is getting more and more political by the day. If you don't like something don't buy it, if you don't like someone's methods fine, but don't talk mess about someone without even having bought a single comic from them, spoke to them personally and found out about their methods. I know some on here have been speaking behind my back telling people to not sell to me or respond to my threads as well

 

Seems to me CGC feel threatened by any new talent and get their minions to bad mouth other competitors. Some of the other big names in restoration are sick of getting their work back from CGC as B quality as well. Seems only the guys at CCS are professional in what they do

 

These comments are inflammatory. As I did in the last thread, I will not attack you or your ideas, but I will tell you, they are inflammatory. The level and extent of resto in these books is unprecedented. Resto is a super hot topic amongst long time collectors, because of the amount of money that these older books are worth, and because of the spread between the market value of unrestored and restored books.

 

When you say that "only CCS are professional in what they do" that is inflammatory. So is the word "minions." It lowers your credibility and it makes it look like YOU are the one who is a minion of the IGB gravy train.

 

I will tell you - I have never been interested in Golden Age comics. They have no nostalgia for me. But the concept of taking a ragged POS copy and turning it into a Voldemort 9.8 (factoring in the issues of extreme glossing and thickness which may or may not be happening) is fascinating to me. It seems wrong to me, but maybe it isn't. I like to read the discussions and try to suss out where everyone is coming from in order to form my own opinion.

 

Hegel's dialectic of thesis + antithesis = synthesis applies (at least for me) in many of these super touchy topics. The skeptics and the cheerleaders help everyone out in determining what their position is.

 

It is a valuable process. Please consider that going forward.

 

I agree with some of your points but some I do not. My comments are not inflammatory they are ture. I know and others who have used some of the TOP restorers in the world only to have their comics come back as B quality. So I stand by my comments. If the TOP at their game get a B grade then how can A be acheived. Plus minions. If you have read the TEC 33 thread then this is a very polite way of me putting what I truly feel.

 

I do think very hard about what I say going forward. I would employ others to do the same

 

I can understand why some dislike IGB's business model. That is fnie I have no problem with that. Each to their own. My issues have always been with as you put it inflammatory statements with no proof behind them and a lot of guess work.

 

I have said my peace so I'll leave most to think I am disingenous etc but continue to speak to those who have time for me

 

Good luck to all on their search for their grails