MOST VALUABLE MODERN VARIANTS - THE RANKINGS 17 17

[newshane]

I have also spoken with the former owner of the 9.6 copy and advised him. My guess was that it would sell for 10-15k and it hit 17k. I wasn’t far off. With enough exposure and interest, a 9.8 would pull 30-40k all day. 

[World Devourer]

On 10/6/2023 at 1:04 AM, newshane said:

I won’t say out of respect for the parties involved, but I will say that the claim that 19k is “still more than anything this book has ever sold for in any grade” is absolutely false. We breached that amount YEARS ago. 
 

 

Thanks for the clarification. I can certainly relate as I have conducted private sales that do not reflect the listed price of some issues.

[MAR1979]

Private Sales make Felony Tax Avoidance so much easier for dealers/sellers

 

Edited October 7, 2023 by MAR1979

[D2]

Private sales… how does that help anyone?

Is the understanding that people are selling to other people they like? Is that it?

Is it to lock in a value they believe is accurate, rather than having it listed on the open market?

If I was to sell it to someone in a private sale, the main benefit would be to avoid paying any fees from a platform.

Aside from that, private sale values aren’t meaningful.

I use house sales as an example. Many luxury and historic homes are sold, privately, for incredible amounts of money. And yet, history has also shown that those very same homes have been forced into sale, typically abruptly due to some unforeseen circumstances, and the values of the home turn out to be significantly less than what the private sale was for. 

[Ryan.]

All of the sales on these boards, IG, Facebook and such fall into the bucket of private sales, which are much larger in volume than the sampling of sales tracked by GPA and Gocollect.

[D2]

On 10/7/2023 at 4:04 PM, Ryan. said:

All of the sales on these boards, IG, Facebook and such fall into the bucket of private sales, which are much larger in volume than the sampling of sales tracked by GPA and Gocollect.

But there is no tracking. So how can you validate them?

Metrics are metrics for a reason.

It doesn’t matter if there are 10x more transactions, or 10x the fmv price. There has to be a standardized metric, otherwise why would anyone bother tracking anything at all?

What you’re describing is literally a paradox. 

Selling something without the guide of metrics. You base your sales on metrics and yet you invalidate them. 
 

[Ryan.]

K.

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 10/7/2023 at 6:28 PM, D2 said:

But there is no tracking. So how can you validate them?

Metrics are metrics for a reason.

It doesn’t matter if there are 10x more transactions, or 10x the fmv price. There has to be a standardized metric, otherwise why would anyone bother tracking anything at all?

What you’re describing is literally a paradox. 

Selling something without the guide of metrics. You base your sales on metrics and yet you invalidate them. 
 

The facepalm WASN'T necessary. 

1) have you ever bought from a lcs? Those arent tracked.

2) if you're going to describe lcs as based on metrics, they are still private sales and untracked. Therefore the private sales the boards were speaking of can be extrapolated the same way, whether you know the "factors" to make a informed decision is up to each of the unique people in a transaction.

3) you just described yourself as the guy at the con with the very last sale on ebay pulled up and thats what you want it for? Never mind the sale before that, or the lowest now listed, as once you mess with the last sale it's no longer a verifiable metric?

4) disregarding other "metrics" such as: availability, what it took for the seller to acquire if rare, trust between buyer and seller, venue, and TONS of others.

5) making "it look" as though you're saying gpa and ebay is gospel, even if you didnt limit to "specifically the last sale on either" then youve messed with the validity of your "metric" 

6) there is no reason a person cant do that on their own if they know their stuff. Making private transactions happen all the time!

7)Ever seen a lcs price something under fmv? They sell it often? Hard sale? Common book anywhere?

8) lcs prices high? They never get the book in? Eye candy? Need the money for over head?

Metrics aren't a gospel, they are a guidline. Does it help the metric for private sale? Maybe

But say that and that alone rather than a facepalm that isnt justified. If a seller is in the market and feels a trusted source is going to give them $10,000 over stated fmv? You think theyre going to NOT DO THAT because other collectors would be hurt in metrics? A lot of high dollar transactions dont want that kind of publicity, and or, its their own private book and nothing wrong with keeping it that way...

I didnt think this would be a long post, even shortened a LOT. Im not sure itll do any good

Edited October 8, 2023 by ADAMANTIUM

[ADAMANTIUM]

Just the guy who is selling a rare book like in this thread?

Seller getting 10000$ more in a private sale, probably wouldn't care.

Buyer who now knows and can get a book possibly for 10000 less, probably doesn't "care"

I wouldn't call that a paradox.

[newshane]

Just for clarification, I don't have an issue with the nature of this thread. Keeping the focus on public sales is the only fair way to compile such a list. 

I just had an issue with the following statement: 

"...that's still more than anything this book has ever sold for in any grade.". 

That just isn't true. The language was imprecise and sloppy. 

Should have said, "that's still more than any public sale of this book."

Also, pay attention to Ryan's definition of "private sale." He was spot on. 

Someone mentioned tax evasion. That's a widespread problem throughout the hobby, and it's certainly not limited to "private sales." 

 

[Jaydogrules]

On 10/7/2023 at 5:49 PM, newshane said:

Just for clarification, I don't have an issue with the nature of this thread. Keeping the focus on public sales is the only fair way to compile such a list. 

I just had an issue with the following statement: 

"...that's still more than anything this book has ever sold for in any grade.". 

That just isn't true. The language was imprecise and sloppy. 

Should have said, "that's still more than any public sale of this book."

Also, pay attention to Ryan's definition of "private sale." He was spot on. 

Someone mentioned tax evasion. That's a widespread problem throughout the hobby, and it's certainly not limited to "private sales." 

 

This is on the first post on this thread from 7 years ago:  "All closed sales used are public information (meaning I did not count private sales even if I personally knew them to be valid)."

it's not necessary for people to say they are talking about public sales in every post, that is and has always been what's discussed here.  

-J.

[D2]

On 10/7/2023 at 7:59 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

The facepalm WASN'T necessary. 

1) have you ever bought from a lcs? Those arent tracked.

2) if you're going to describe lcs as based on metrics, they are still private sales and untracked. Therefore the private sales the boards were speaking of can be extrapolated the same way, whether you know the "factors" to make a informed decision is up to each of the unique people in a transaction.

3) you just described yourself as the guy at the con with the very last sale on ebay pulled up and thats what you want it for? Never mind the sale before that, or the lowest now listed, as once you mess with the last sale it's no longer a verifiable metric?

4) disregarding other "metrics" such as: availability, what it took for the seller to acquire if rare, trust between buyer and seller, venue, and TONS of others.

5) making "it look" as though you're saying gpa and ebay is gospel, even if you didnt limit to "specifically the last sale on either" then youve messed with the validity of your "metric" 

6) there is no reason a person cant do that on their own if they know their stuff. Making private transactions happen all the time!

7)Ever seen a lcs price something under fmv? They sell it often? Hard sale? Common book anywhere?

8) lcs prices high? They never get the book in? Eye candy? Need the money for over head?

Metrics aren't a gospel, they are a guidline. Does it help the metric for private sale? Maybe

But say that and that alone rather than a facepalm that isnt justified. If a seller is in the market and feels a trusted source is going to give them $10,000 over stated fmv? You think theyre going to NOT DO THAT because other collectors would be hurt in metrics? A lot of high dollar transactions dont want that kind of publicity, and or, its their own private book and nothing wrong with keeping it that way...

I didnt think this would be a long post, even shortened a LOT. Im not sure itll do any good

See what I did there?

I acknowledge the fact that this is a message board chat thread of a few guys arguing over semantics. 

So let’s set some ground rules.

Rule A: Sellers will always want to max out their profits.

Rule B: When trying to assess a sale price, Sellers will refer to past sales, whether it’s last sale (singular), sales (grouped figure), or highest sale (within a specific timeframe). ERGO, metric.

When Rule B is unavailable, Rule C is applied: Best guess pricing, typically grounded on, you guessed it, loosely based… metrics.

And if all else is inapplicable, Rule D: A price is determined without metrics, based on emotionally placed value.

Let’s begin:

1) RULE A: LCS will inflate their numbers based on… metrics. 

2) RULE B: Private sales are based on metrics OR RULE A: seller, who is trying to max out their numbers or RULE D: is asking an emotional value based on their own interests. 

3) RULE B, group sale figure

4) RULE D! 

5) RULE B, group sale figure

6) Pick a rule, know their stuff? Based on… metrics, or RULE D… sounds like a RULE D schmuck. 

7) RULE B, if it’s under fmv, then what are you basing the final sale on?  (a metric)

8) RULE A, nailed it. 
 

[D2]

I guess my point is, people shun metrics when they aren’t convenient to their outcomes, but when prices go up or demands accelerates, then metrics are great. 

It’s like, you can’t pick and choose when metrics are convenient. 

Case in point, a seller won’t knowingly sell a book for a value prior to the item being in demand, would they?

[D2]

On 10/7/2023 at 4:04 PM, Ryan. said:

All of the sales on these boards, IG, Facebook and such fall into the bucket of private sales, which are much larger in volume than the sampling of sales tracked by GPA and Gocollect.

What are you pricing it based on? 

The Oracle… must be 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 10/8/2023 at 11:11 AM, D2 said:

I guess my point is, people shun metrics when they aren’t convenient to their outcomes, but when prices go up or demands accelerates, then metrics are great. 

It’s like, you can’t pick and choose when metrics are convenient. 

Case in point, a seller won’t knowingly sell a book for a value prior to the item being in demand, would they?

You pointed out being able to track a sale, as if it is the only 'metric" that mattered.

And then you asked why?

That isn't arguing 

I pointed out the fallacy of that position, there are other metrics in numerous hobbies, sales and the like that aren't made public but that are also based on numerous metrics that aren't tracked publicly.

If it was an argument, Idk know what your saying then as I was trying to explain the "why?" To answer your question.

Metrics only matter on a firsthand basis ie the buyer and seller. Anything past that is third hand knowledge and or hearsay. So your complaint of "not valid and hearsay" isn't only with private sales. Many metrics that gpa or eBay doesn't "track" is location! A metric based on convenience.

For example I live twenty miles from mcs, but didn't buy my last book off their website (even though it would be cheaper by $15), because the total would be less than $100 onsite and just over $100 on ebay, and I wanted to use PayPal credit no interest 6 months.

So how did that eBay sale get "validated" through GPA?

I was pointing out that they are guidelines, and no one has the entitlement to make a sale public, especially if that is not the terms of a transaction. Carry on!

Edited October 8, 2023 by ADAMANTIUM

[Ryan.]

On 10/8/2023 at 12:43 PM, D2 said:

What are you pricing it based on? 

The Oracle… must be 

You must not deal with Golden Age often.

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 10/7/2023 at 2:38 PM, D2 said:

Private sales… how does that help anyone? question?

Is the understanding that people are selling to other people they like? Is that it? question?

Is it to lock in a value they believe is accurate, rather than having it listed on the open market? question?

If I was to sell it to someone in a private sale, the main benefit would be to avoid paying any fees from a platform.

Aside from that, private sale values aren’t meaningful.

I use house sales as an example. Many luxury and historic homes are sold, privately, for incredible amounts of money. And yet, history has also shown that those very same homes have been forced into sale, typically abruptly due to some unforeseen circumstances, and the values of the home turn out to be significantly less than what the private sale was for. 

 

On 10/8/2023 at 10:58 AM, D2 said:

See what I did there?

I acknowledge the fact that this is a message board chat thread of a few guys arguing over semantics. 

So let’s set some ground rules.

Rule A: Sellers will always want to max out their profits.

Rule B: When trying to assess a sale price, Sellers will refer to past sales, whether it’s last sale (singular), sales (grouped figure), or highest sale (within a specific timeframe). ERGO, metric.

When Rule B is unavailable, Rule C is applied: Best guess pricing, typically grounded on, you guessed it, loosely based… metrics.

And if all else is inapplicable, Rule D: A price is determined without metrics, based on emotionally placed value.

Let’s begin:

1) RULE A: LCS will inflate their numbers based on… metrics. 

2) RULE B: Private sales are based on metrics OR RULE A: seller, who is trying to max out their numbers or RULE D: is asking an emotional value based on their own interests. 

3) RULE B, group sale figure

4) RULE D! 

5) RULE B, group sale figure

6) Pick a rule, know their stuff? Based on… metrics, or RULE D… sounds like a RULE D schmuck. 

7) RULE B, if it’s under fmv, then what are you basing the final sale on?  (a metric)

8) RULE A, nailed it. 
 

Are these the answers I was supposed to magically know? or was I "arguing semantics". It is rhetorical, and NO I'm not biting your head off  nor you me, it is just a way to pass time on a "message board" on a Sunday.  Cheer up, do what works for you!! 

[MAR1979]

On 10/8/2023 at 11:58 AM, D2 said:

See what I did there?

I acknowledge the fact that this is a message board chat thread of a few guys arguing over semantics. 

So let’s set some ground rules.

Rule A: Sellers will always want to max out their profits.

Rule B: When trying to assess a sale price, Sellers will refer to past sales, whether it’s last sale (singular), sales (grouped figure), or highest sale (within a specific timeframe). ERGO, metric.

When Rule B is unavailable, Rule C is applied: Best guess pricing, typically grounded on, you guessed it, loosely based… metrics.

And if all else is inapplicable, Rule D: A price is determined without metrics, based on emotionally placed value.

Let’s begin:

1) RULE A: LCS will inflate their numbers based on… metrics. 

2) RULE B: Private sales are based on metrics OR RULE A: seller, who is trying to max out their numbers or RULE D: is asking an emotional value based on their own interests. 

3) RULE B, group sale figure

4) RULE D! 

5) RULE B, group sale figure

6) Pick a rule, know their stuff? Based on… metrics, or RULE D… sounds like a RULE D schmuck. 

7) RULE B, if it’s under fmv, then what are you basing the final sale on?  (a metric)

8) RULE A, nailed it. 
 

I'd like to add, I've personally never met a Comic Book dealer who isn't totally making s*** up (aka Lying) when they mention "private sale" or "have a buyer who will pay amount being asked".  If that's the case then why are you at this show/con trying to peddle it?

Edited October 8, 2023 by MAR1979

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 10/8/2023 at 1:01 PM, MAR1979 said:

I'd like to add, I've personally never met a Comic Book dealer who isn't totally making s*** up (aka Lying) when they mention "private sale" or "have a buyer who will pay X amount".  If that's the case then why are you at this show/con trying to peddle it.  I've told more than one dealer eff that noise and I walk away from their table.

Lol this is also true, it is all true, but explaining metrics takes reasoning or rational thoughts. Towards your sentiment everyone or every instance has its own condition as to "why?" To say the least getting the most out of each situation would be why or why not they're "tracked!"

That's why I was adamant (ium) that the transaction is between buyer and seller, all third parties are after the fact. There are more than a million metrics as to why a transaction doesn't benefit a third party not associated, hence why private sales hence why tracking and non tracking.

I just didn't think the facepalm was being a good sport to answering questions asked. If it is a facepalm to the reasonings for a "private sales" well that can be TRUE, but who are we to judge!

[darkstar]

On 10/8/2023 at 12:42 PM, Ryan. said:

You must not deal with Golden Age often.

He's on record saying the Golden Age is finished because all of the boomers that collect it are dying off.