MOST VALUABLE MODERN VARIANTS - THE RANKINGS 17 17

[ygogolak]

1 hour ago, Jaydogrules said:

It does have to be three years old.

And, ygoglak, super high ratio variants would make the list if they warranted it. The exclusion of the ultra high variant ratio books was on the CBSI list I believe.  This list will not exclude those books.  

-J.

Great, can't wait to get that Vader Down garbage on this list of beauties.

 

[Jaydogrules]

Just now, ygogolak said:

Great, can't wait to get that Vader Down garbage on this list of beauties.

 

Yeah fortunately we still have just a bit under two years before that becomes a possibility.  

-J.

[ygogolak]

8 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Yeah fortunately we still have just a bit under two years before that becomes a possibility.  

-J.

Right, but they are starting to stack up now. Still time to drop off I guess.

Venom 1 1:1000

Venom 6 1:1000

ASM 25 1:1000

 

[isiTrue]

16 hours ago, SquareChaos said:

A lot of people would say a comic book isn't "art". I'm personally not sure a stuffed animal couldn't be called an expression of creativity, and if so, why couldn't it be considered art by those who appreciate it?

Making yourself a gatekeeper for what is art is roughly equivalent to someone else making themselves the gatekeeper for what is a collectible. Technically, the only qualification for something to be a collectible, is for someone to wish to collect it. No one ever said collectibles had to be valuable or hold whatever value they may have once held - quite the contrary, as we're all well aware.

 

Having said that... I'm always a little amused when some of the people here seem surprised or defensive when a visitor yells out, what from their perspective, appear to be warnings that people should be very careful when paying thousands of dollars for comic books that are just a few months - or dozen months at best - old. I mean, on the face of it, they probably feel like they're trying to help people wouldn't you think?

 

If you saw someone reaching out to grab on to what you believed was a searing hot piece of metal, you might very well yell out a warning as well - regardless of whether or not the person doing the reaching saw any danger in the action. I like to think they mean well.

There is a big difference between a general consensus of what is considered valuable art and simple "artistic expression" which could be applied to just about anything.  Beanie babies are plush toys.  Could they be considered a form of artistic expression?  Sure, because someone had to design it.  However, that's stretching the boundaries of what is generally considered art.  I could take a piece of canvas, cr4p on it, swirl it around with a stick, let it dry, and place it on my wall.  Is it art?  In the broadest sense of the word, yes it is.

Now comes the issue of value.  I can understand warning others with good intentions, but these flawed doom and gloom arguments have been around for a long time.  What they fail to keep in mind is the constant influx of new movies (among other things) that rake in viewers and thus increase demand for comics.  Prices don't climb without reason.  That being said, there's always the possibility that a crash could happen, but unless it's another economic meltdown, the chances for that occurring are extremely slim in the current market environment.  There are always small corrections, but the trend is up.

8 hours ago, Jaydogrules said:

Hello.  

I don't see any sales for Iron Man 512 Venom for the amount that you are indicating.  The most recent sale I see is for $1200 in February 2017, which is well below the current #12 on the list.  If you have a link for that sale, feel free to post it. 

As to the Transformers book, I am aware of it, but there just aren't enough (or any) public (graded) sales of the book, and strictly private sales of books are not considered.   

-J.

Iron Man #512:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Iron-Man-512-VENOM-Variant-CGC-9-8-Rare-HTF-Comic-Highest-Grade-On-Census-/252569894023?hash=item3ace56bc87:g:qA8AAOSwOyJX8~VM

Transformers Universe #1: http://www.ebay.com/itm/401119507030

7 hours ago, Jaydogrules said:

Because that would be a whole other can of worms.   

The sales relied upon have to be readily viewable by the public, or side debates about whether or not a sale really did or did not happen would inevitably erupt.  

-J.

On the other hand, public sales can be shilled and private sales can be verified.  

However, I guess I understand the issue regarding private sales in order to simplify the list (even though it does somewhat impede tracking of current realized prices).  

I personally like to hear what a book I'm interested in sold for privately.  It can always be taken with a grain of salt.

Edited March 25, 2017 by isiTrue
"" is a censored word!? Really?

[SquareChaos]

5 hours ago, ygogolak said:

You're talking about different things. You're referencing content inside a comic book as opposed to the artwork. Is Roy Lichtenstein an artist or "idiotic"?

Not really. I'm stating flatly that it isn't hard to find people that don't consider many artistic forms of expression lofty enough to be called art. If you want to ignore that fact, feel free.

[ygogolak]

3 minutes ago, SquareChaos said:

Not really. I'm stating flatly that it isn't hard to find people that don't consider many artistic forms of expression lofty enough to be called art. If you want to ignore that fact, feel free.

And there are people that think the earth is flat. 

[SquareChaos]

Just now, ygogolak said:

And there are people that think the earth is flat. 

 

Interesting that you don't understand the difference between a topic that is subjective, like art, and one that is objective, like earth science.

[ygogolak]

19 minutes ago, SquareChaos said:

 

Interesting that you don't understand the difference between a topic that is subjective, like art, and one that is objective, like earth science.

Good talk.

As per you usual M.O., an antagonist approach that brings nothing the community.

[SquareChaos]

Just now, ygogolak said:

Good talk.

As per you usual M.O., an antagonist approach that brings nothing the community.

You're the one that compared my comment to people saying the Earth is flat 

 

Anyway, my level of discourse changes based on the people I'm talking to, but at least you kept your pants on.

[ygogolak]

6 minutes ago, SquareChaos said:

You're the one that compared my comment to people saying the Earth is flat 

 

Anyway, my level of discourse changes based on the people I'm talking to, but at least you kept your pants on.

You're just lucky they didn't build a camera feature into the new board.

[Jaydogrules]

2 hours ago, isiTrue said:

There is a big difference between a general consensus of what is considered valuable art and simple "artistic expression" which could be applied to just about anything.  Beanie babies are plush toys.  Could they be considered a form of artistic expression?  Sure, because someone had to design it.  However, that's stretching the boundaries of what is generally considered art.  I could take a piece of canvas, cr4p on it, swirl it around with a stick, let it dry, and place it on my wall.  Is it art?  In the broadest sense of the word, yes it is.

Now comes the issue of value.  I can understand warning others with good intentions, but these flawed doom and gloom arguments have been around for a long time.  What they fail to keep in mind is the constant influx of new movies (among other things) that rake in viewers and thus increase demand for comics.  Prices don't climb without reason.  That being said, there's always the possibility that a crash could happen, but unless it's another economic meltdown, the chances for that occurring are extremely slim in the current market environment.  There are always small corrections, but the trend is up.

Iron Man #512:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Iron-Man-512-VENOM-Variant-CGC-9-8-Rare-HTF-Comic-Highest-Grade-On-Census-/252569894023?hash=item3ace56bc87:g:qA8AAOSwOyJX8~VM

Transformers Universe #1: http://www.ebay.com/itm/401119507030

On the other hand, public sales can be shilled and private sales can be verified.  

However, I guess I understand the issue regarding private sales in order to simplify the list (even though it does somewhat impede tracking of current realized prices).  

I personally like to hear what a book I'm interested in sold for privately.  It can always be taken with a grain of salt.

That Iron Man 512 sale is an outlier.  There is nothing before that or since that anywhere near that price for the book.  As such its averages will keep it well off the list.  

The transformers book's sale is noted, but this sale wouldn't be enough to get the book on the list. Unfortunately, it may be a victim of its own extreme niche and rarity.  Either way I will add it to the watch list.  

As for not using public sales, the purpose of the list was never meant to track individual sales or keep a permanent record of that (not even public the public sales), but to rank the tip top of books based on the public sales at the time it's updated. Public sales can be shilled or faked as well, but at least those sales can be scrutinized publicly. I also know of multiple private sales of many of the less frequently available books on the list, including private sales that were publicized on these boards, or deals that transacted between people I know personally.  None of those sales are used when compiling the list either.  

Speaking of which, it's almost time to update this thing again already.  

-J.

[fastballspecial]

19 hours ago, Lethal_Collector said:

 

Say what you will, but it's worth what someone is willing to pay for it (and continues to pay for it time and time again).  Will these book continue to hold value?  Time will tell

 

Jerome

That's a fair assessment.  If I was a collector of books like that it would make me very nervous just honestly due to the fact that with that type of money involved it brings some of the wrong element in our hobby sometimes.

[Okeydoke]

On 3/24/2017 at 10:35 PM, isiTrue said:

 

Well said.  Also, beanie babies are not art.

 

As for the list, I'm surprised that Transformers Universe #1 Botcon Unicron variant isn't listed... it sold for over 1K at auction last year.  I sold my copy for roughly $2,900 (if applying Ebay pricing) a few months back.

Iron Man #512 Venom variant in 9.8 went for around 2K on Ebay three months ago.

 

A comic book itself isn't art...it just isn't. They are printed publications. I love them. I've collected them for decades and have over 10 thousand, but a floppy isn't a piece of art. I don't care how much you bought or sold one with a really cool "limited edition" cover for. The craft of creating a comic is an art. The -script of a comic is piece of art. An original page of pencils, inks or colors is art. The comic book itself is a collectible, like a beanie baby. Heck, creating the designs for beanie babies is an art too. The result is a collectible.

[aerischan]

9 hours ago, ygogolak said:

Right, but they are starting to stack up now. Still time to drop off I guess.

Venom 1 1:1000

Venom 6 1:1000

ASM 25 1:1000

 

Venom #150 has a 1:2000 variant (B&W/sketch of 1:1000) and I believe the upcoming X-books are also getting 1:1000 (iirc, Gold, Blue, Jean Grey, maybe some others). Blue and Gold are recycling old Jim Lee art.

[ygogolak]

1 hour ago, Okeydoke said:

A comic book itself isn't art...it just isn't. They are printed publications. I love them. I've collected them for decades and have over 10 thousand, but a floppy isn't a piece of art. I don't care how much you bought or sold one with a really cool "limited edition" cover for. The craft of creating a comic is an art. The --script of a comic is piece of art. An original page of pencils, inks or colors is art. The comic book itself is a collectible, like a beanie baby. Heck, creating the designs for beanie babies is an art too. The result is a collectible.

Hmm, an afiniciado I see...

[ygogolak]

1 hour ago, aerischan said:

Venom #150 has a 1:2000 variant (B&W/sketch of 1:1000) and I believe the upcoming X-books are also getting 1:1000 (iirc, Gold, Blue, Jean Grey, maybe some others). Blue and Gold are recycling old Jim Lee art.

Oh....great....

[isiTrue]

2 hours ago, Okeydoke said:

A comic book itself isn't art...it just isn't. They are printed publications. I love them. I've collected them for decades and have over 10 thousand, but a floppy isn't a piece of art. I don't care how much you bought or sold one with a really cool "limited edition" cover for. The craft of creating a comic is an art. The --script of a comic is piece of art. An original page of pencils, inks or colors is art. The comic book itself is a collectible, like a beanie baby. Heck, creating the designs for beanie babies is an art too. The result is a collectible.

So, posters are not art?  Lithographs?  Prints?  Only original works are considered art?  I think not.  Many people frame comic books and display them on a shelf or wall.  Once it reached that stage, they became pieces of art too.  Hulk #181 on a wall?  How about Amazing Fantasy #15?  And if those are considered art, then by extension a modern book with a fantastic cover could as well.

Regarding the beanie baby analogy, I said much the same in a post further up; perhaps you missed it.  My argument was in response to SquareChaos; the Transformers book (aka "really cool limited edition cover") was a separate discussion.

What it really comes down to is this: there's a very fine line separating all the aspects considered works of art.

 

[aerischan]

1 hour ago, ygogolak said:

Oh....great....

And I wouldn't be surprised if the switch to legacy numbering involves a ton more super high ratio variants. Maybe we'll see a 1:10,000 now.

 

Edited March 26, 2017 by aerischan

[fastballspecial]

I can't remember have we discussed the ASM 546 Book Market Variant. I rarely see this book. I sold  VG/F copy a couple of years ago for around $160 raw. GPA has very limited sales and I only see one up currently. Does this book not count because its not a true variant? I can't remember.

[Jaydogrules]

1 hour ago, fastballspecial said:

I can't remember have we discussed the ASM 546 Book Market Variant. I rarely see this book. I sold  VG/F copy a couple of years ago for around $160 raw. GPA has very limited sales and I only see one up currently. Does this book not count because its not a true variant? I can't remember.

Is it a variant?   It has the identical art it just says "Book Market" on it. 

Either way I'm familiar with it and haven't seen any sales that would get it anywhere near the Dirty Dozen. 

-J.