Books you just cant find in the Wild 22 22

[Michael Browning]

Soooo many dealers bought last issues in the 90s because at the time the cat was already out of the bag and dealers knew these will sell at a premium. Chuck R used to advertise this in EVERY newssletter.. Even NM#100 :facepalm:

Now if youre talking she-hulk, you really wanna find this one:

 

 

I strongly disagree with the statement that "soooo many dealers bought last issues in the 90s because at the time the cat was already out of the bag and dealers knew these will sell at a premium." I don't know many DEALERS who subscribed to the Mile High Comics newsletter. A comic like NM 100 was ordered heavily, because it was heading into X-Force 1. A comic like Conan the Barbarian 275 was not ordered heavily. Neither was Ghost Rider 93 -- because retailers didn't know it was the last issue.

Those last issues are rare because those series' sales numbers had dropped so low that they were past Marvel's cutoff point and no one was ordering them.

I don't know a single retailer who bought to speculate on last issues at that time -- or many who do that now. When no one is buying a comic, retailers don't increase their orders for speculative purposes that far in the future. I mean, some of these ARE JUST NOW INCREASING IN PRICE, meaning a lot of retailers would have had to have gambled on the long game instead of wanting to make the fast profit and were stuck with back stock they either didn't sell or tried selling at cheap prices to make room for more stock that sold quickly.

Retailers don't sit on new comics for two decades with the hopes that they will eventually increase in value. They want to sell new comics now to make their money as quickly as they can. So, to say that a lot of retailers bought last issues doesn't make any sense and the fact that there are so few of these last issues in back issue bins in shops is proof that the print runs on those final issues were very low.

 

I think youre confusing dealers with flippers today. Dealers like Chuck, till this day, have stock to sell. Thats their business, theyre not some kid in a basement buying books to flip on eBay.

Dealers dont buy from dealers, just like Chuck, there were many other comic book shop owners that ordered heavily on these final issues because they knew they could price them accordingly.

That does not mean that they are rare as much as it doesnt mean that they are worthless.

The point is, that what you are saying was a known fact EVEN back in the 90s

 

Again, I strongly disagree with what you are stating and I hope you understand that I KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FLIPPERS AND DEALERS.

I've been involved in the comics collecting world since 1978 and have been buying and selling comics since 1990.

You are absolutely, 100% wrong that there were dealers who stockpiled last issues with the hopes that EVENTUALLY, SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE - NO MATTER HOW FAR OFF THAT WOULD BE - THESE LAST ISSUES WOULD BE WORTH MORE THAN COVER PRICE.

Comic shop owners/dealers sell comics at a profit NOW (when new comics arrive, usually every Wednesday these days, but it has been different days of the week in the past), because holding onto comics can mean a big loss. Selling at the right time, whether it be new comics or old, is the key to maximizing profits.

Over the years, many of these comics have ended up in quarter, 50 cent and dollar boxes. So, with your logic, they wouldn't sell until they were very valuable, meaning that comic shop owners/dealers would STILL BE HOLDING ONTO A LOT OF THEM.

Collecting last issues is a niche that has been around for decades (I discovered last issues in an early edition of the Overstreet Comic Book Price Guide when I noticed how high Flash 104 had shot up in value because of its scarcity), but I don't know a single comic shop owner/dealer who ever banked on buying multiple copies to HOLD ONTO FOR YEARS WITH THE HOPES THAT, ONE DAY, THOSE COMICS WOULD BE WORTH A LOT. Comic shop owners want to sell their new comics now; holding onto a comic for years that only goes up to sell for cover price or just above is something that doesn't happen very often - especially not at comic shops that are very successful.

Most of these last issues sell for just above cover price and aren't very valuable. However, there are those that are and those are the ones that dealers didn't order because no one was buying them.

 

[mec3437]

G.I. Joe Special 1. Never seen it in the wild or at a convention surprisingly. I blame my geographical location though. It's hard to find any decent back issues in shops near me.

 

I had never seen it until a few weeks ago when my LCS got one in. NM condition, and I was intrigued by the McFarlane art for GI Joe. So, I bought it, but I will admit that it was more of a lucky find.

[Michael Browning]

I think youre confusing dealers with flippers today. Dealers like Chuck, till this day, have stock to sell. Thats their business, theyre not some kid in a basement buying books to flip on eBay.

Dealers dont buy from dealers, just like Chuck, there were many other comic book shop owners that ordered heavily on these final issues because they knew they could price them accordingly.

That does not mean that they are rare as much as it doesnt mean that they are worthless.

The point is, that what you are saying was a known fact EVEN back in the 90s

I don't think it's so much confusing dealers with flippers. Rather, it's using dealers interchangeably with retailers/comic shops. Sure, a lot of comic shops are probably dealers as well. However, those who rely on new comics for majority of their income would probably prefer to sell stock quickly rather than tie up capital on old stock in the hopes of the comic appreciating.

 

Ghost Rider #93 may be selling for $30-90 now but during that 18-year period, the retailer could have used the funds to buy comics that sell quickly and dependably. Let's say the retailer makes $1 per comic and they sell every month, over the years, that would have net them $200+.

 

Exactly. Thank you!

[Aweandlorder]

.. but I don't know a single comic shop owner/dealer who ever banked on buying multiple copies

 

Well You dont know any, and I do. So lets agree to disagree. Cool?

[Michael Browning]

G.I. Joe Special 1. Never seen it in the wild or at a convention surprisingly. I blame my geographical location though. It's hard to find any decent back issues in shops near me.

 

I had never seen it until a few weeks ago when my LCS got one in. NM condition, and I was intrigued by the McFarlane art for GI Joe. So, I bought it, but I will admit that it was more of a lucky find.

 

I'm not a GI Joe collector, but this is one that I have kept an eye out for over the years. I have only ever seen one copy of this in a comic shop and it was a shop in Myrtle Beach, S.C., last year.

It was priced at $150, if I remember correctly, and was in about Fine condition.

 

[Aweandlorder]

I think youre confusing dealers with flippers today. Dealers like Chuck, till this day, have stock to sell. Thats their business, theyre not some kid in a basement buying books to flip on eBay.

Dealers dont buy from dealers, just like Chuck, there were many other comic book shop owners that ordered heavily on these final issues because they knew they could price them accordingly.

That does not mean that they are rare as much as it doesnt mean that they are worthless.

The point is, that what you are saying was a known fact EVEN back in the 90s

I don't think it's so much confusing dealers with flippers. Rather, it's using dealers interchangeably with retailers/comic shops. Sure, a lot of comic shops are probably dealers as well. However, those who rely on new comics for majority of their income would probably prefer to sell stock quickly rather than tie up capital on old stock in the hopes of the comic appreciating.

 

Ghost Rider #93 may be selling for $30-90 now but during that 18-year period, the retailer could have used the funds to buy comics that sell quickly and dependably. Let's say the retailer makes $1 per comic and they sell every month, over the years, that would have net them $200+.

 

Your average LCS will not buy comic books to sell at a premium on eBay. Thats exactly what Im saying. However, seasoned dealers, like chuck, were and are aware of trends and buy accordingly.

[Michael Browning]

I think youre confusing dealers with flippers today. Dealers like Chuck, till this day, have stock to sell. Thats their business, theyre not some kid in a basement buying books to flip on eBay.

Dealers dont buy from dealers, just like Chuck, there were many other comic book shop owners that ordered heavily on these final issues because they knew they could price them accordingly.

That does not mean that they are rare as much as it doesnt mean that they are worthless.

The point is, that what you are saying was a known fact EVEN back in the 90s

I don't think it's so much confusing dealers with flippers. Rather, it's using dealers interchangeably with retailers/comic shops. Sure, a lot of comic shops are probably dealers as well. However, those who rely on new comics for majority of their income would probably prefer to sell stock quickly rather than tie up capital on old stock in the hopes of the comic appreciating.

 

Ghost Rider #93 may be selling for $30-90 now but during that 18-year period, the retailer could have used the funds to buy comics that sell quickly and dependably. Let's say the retailer makes $1 per comic and they sell every month, over the years, that would have net them $200+.

 

Your average LCS will not buy comic books to sell at a premium on eBay. Thats exactly what Im saying. However, seasoned dealers, like chuck, were and are aware of trends and buy accordingly.

 

We're talking about finding books in the wild, right? Like, in a shop?

I don't consider a dealer at a show having a last issue up on his wall at a jacked-up price finding a book in the wild.

[Aweandlorder]

I think youre confusing dealers with flippers today. Dealers like Chuck, till this day, have stock to sell. Thats their business, theyre not some kid in a basement buying books to flip on eBay.

Dealers dont buy from dealers, just like Chuck, there were many other comic book shop owners that ordered heavily on these final issues because they knew they could price them accordingly.

That does not mean that they are rare as much as it doesnt mean that they are worthless.

The point is, that what you are saying was a known fact EVEN back in the 90s

I don't think it's so much confusing dealers with flippers. Rather, it's using dealers interchangeably with retailers/comic shops. Sure, a lot of comic shops are probably dealers as well. However, those who rely on new comics for majority of their income would probably prefer to sell stock quickly rather than tie up capital on old stock in the hopes of the comic appreciating.

 

Ghost Rider #93 may be selling for $30-90 now but during that 18-year period, the retailer could have used the funds to buy comics that sell quickly and dependably. Let's say the retailer makes $1 per comic and they sell every month, over the years, that would have net them $200+.

 

Your average LCS will not buy comic books to sell at a premium on eBay. Thats exactly what Im saying. However, seasoned dealers, like chuck, were and are aware of trends and buy accordingly.

 

We're talking about finding books in the wild, right? Like, in a shop?

I don't consider a dealer at a show having a last issue up on his wall at a jacked-up price finding a book in the wild.

Theyre hard to find in the wild.. Many final issues were posted here before, even by me.. That still doesnt mean that dealers dont have ample stock of these.

This is not hard to figure out

 

[aerischan]

I don't think it's so much confusing dealers with flippers. Rather, it's using dealers interchangeably with retailers/comic shops. Sure, a lot of comic shops are probably dealers as well. However, those who rely on new comics for majority of their income would probably prefer to sell stock quickly rather than tie up capital on old stock in the hopes of the comic appreciating.

 

Ghost Rider #93 may be selling for $30-90 now but during that 18-year period, the retailer could have used the funds to buy comics that sell quickly and dependably. Let's say the retailer makes $1 per comic and they sell every month, over the years, that would have net them $200+.

 

Your average LCS will not buy comic books to sell at a premium on eBay. Thats exactly what Im saying. However, seasoned dealers, like chuck, were and are aware of trends and buy accordingly.

Right. I think that's the point of contention between you and @MichaelBrowning. He uses the term dealer in reference to and interchangeably with your average LCS.

 

Mind, while you may personally know plenty of dealers who have done this, I doubt majority of comic shops did. Otherwise, there'd just be too much stock available that there would be no scarcity ergo not much appreciation. Also, more likely than not, LCS who regularly over-ordered comics ended up liquidating them to dealers for pennies on the dollar.

[mec3437]

 

This is my white whale right now. 1:25 retailer incentive for Transformers Spotlight Orion Pax. Nothing in stores, the Bay, cons, or even the boards when I try to find this book.

[manetteska]

No variants.

 

(but noted)

[Aweandlorder]

I don't think it's so much confusing dealers with flippers. Rather, it's using dealers interchangeably with retailers/comic shops. Sure, a lot of comic shops are probably dealers as well. However, those who rely on new comics for majority of their income would probably prefer to sell stock quickly rather than tie up capital on old stock in the hopes of the comic appreciating.

 

Ghost Rider #93 may be selling for $30-90 now but during that 18-year period, the retailer could have used the funds to buy comics that sell quickly and dependably. Let's say the retailer makes $1 per comic and they sell every month, over the years, that would have net them $200+.

 

Your average LCS will not buy comic books to sell at a premium on eBay. Thats exactly what Im saying. However, seasoned dealers, like chuck, were and are aware of trends and buy accordingly.

Right. I think that's the point of contention between you and @MichaelBrowning. He uses the term dealer in reference to and interchangeably with your average LCS.

 

Mind, while you may personally know plenty of dealers who have done this, I doubt majority of comic shops did. Otherwise, there'd just be too much stock available that there would be no scarcity ergo not much appreciation. Also, more likely than not, LCS who regularly over-ordered comics ended up liquidating them to dealers for pennies on the dollar.

 

At this point I dont even know what he means in general... Finding comic books for me "in the wild" is finding them in thrift stores, mom n pops, craigslist, etc.. for cover or below!

I can go to almost any dealer, or to a convention in my area and find any and most books mentioned in this post, ESPECIALLY final issues "in the wild".. Only difference being, I would have to pay a premium for them.

LCS do not buy comic books with the intention of selling them for a premium on eBay - in general. Although some nowadays do with variants...but dealers in the caliber of Chuck, Joe Koch, etc HAVE BEEN doing that on a daily basis.

And back to what I originally posted - in the 90s the mentality of these dealers and even LCS was to buy heavily on trending books, that included final issues

[CBT]

not weighing in on the debate per se, but I would point out that just because people "dont ever see book X at a comic shop", doesnt mean it didnt used to be in ALL the comic shops, was ordered lots, and now is just not in the content that gets moved around frequently.

 

Most comic shops are NOT re-supplying themselves with 90s books.

 

 

[mec3437]

My bad.

[Aweandlorder]

not weighing in on the debate per se, but I would point out that just because people "dont ever see book X at a comic shop", doesnt mean it didnt used to be in ALL the comic shops, was ordered lots, and now is just not in the content that gets moved around frequently.

 

Most comic shops are NOT re-supplying themselves with 90s books.

 

 

Thats exactly correct sir.

Most comic shops today buy and sell primarily to their buyers. theyre not in the "speculating" market.

Dealers back then were HEAVILY into speculating. We all know that

Chuck was THE KING of Pump n Dump. The absolute king.

He would pick up on trends and pump mercilessly on his monthly newssletters.

On a few occasions he would hit, just like Wizard would, but mostly it was buying books he would know he could dump easily.

[Michael Browning]

not weighing in on the debate per se, but I would point out that just because people "dont ever see book X at a comic shop", doesnt mean it didnt used to be in ALL the comic shops, was ordered lots, and now is just not in the content that gets moved around frequently.

 

Most comic shops are NOT re-supplying themselves with 90s books.

 

 

Thats exactly correct sir.

Most comic shops today buy and sell primarily to their buyers. theyre not in the "speculating" market.

Dealers back then were HEAVILY into speculating. We all know that

Chuck was THE KING of Pump n Dump. The absolute king.

He would pick up on trends and pump mercilessly on his monthly newssletters.

On a few occasions he would hit, just like Wizard would, but mostly it was buying books he would know he could dump easily.

 

I think that with you spreading the gospel of 1990s-Chuck Rozanski so many times in these last few messages that you should probably do a thread telling of your discipleship of Chuck.

I like how you're backtracking now, saying that comic shop owners aren't the dealers you are referring to and that you agree that comic shops don't order multiples of comics with the far-off hopes that they sell them for more than cover price.

How many comic shop owners AREN'T dealers? They sell comics, right? So, that would make them a comic dealer.

And, what small percentage of comic show dealers aren't comic shop owners? I don't know many "dealers" who only do shows who could order multiples of comics to stockpile WITHOUT a dealer contract with Diamond (or, at that time, Capital and the small guys like Heroes World and a few other distributors).

If these books are so plentiful, as you say, then why don't we see them show up in comic shops more often?

I mean, at least a few of these shop owners have to be dealers, too, so wouldn't now be the time to bring those rare last issues out into the open for sale while they are so hot? Or, are they still holding onto them so that they can make an even bigger profit years on down the road?

[Aweandlorder]

not weighing in on the debate per se, but I would point out that just because people "dont ever see book X at a comic shop", doesnt mean it didnt used to be in ALL the comic shops, was ordered lots, and now is just not in the content that gets moved around frequently.

 

Most comic shops are NOT re-supplying themselves with 90s books.

 

 

Thats exactly correct sir.

Most comic shops today buy and sell primarily to their buyers. theyre not in the "speculating" market.

Dealers back then were HEAVILY into speculating. We all know that

Chuck was THE KING of Pump n Dump. The absolute king.

He would pick up on trends and pump mercilessly on his monthly newssletters.

On a few occasions he would hit, just like Wizard would, but mostly it was buying books he would know he could dump easily.

 

I think that with you spreading the gospel of 1990s-Chuck Rozanski so many times in these last few messages that you should probably do a thread telling of your discipleship of Chuck.

I like how you're backtracking now, saying that comic shop owners aren't the dealers you are referring to and that you agree that comic shops don't order multiples of comics with the far-off hopes that they sell them for more than cover price.

How many comic shop owners AREN'T dealers? They sell comics, right? So, that would make them a comic dealer.

And, what small percentage of comic show dealers aren't comic shop owners? I don't know many "dealers" who only do shows who could order multiples of comics to stockpile WITHOUT a dealer contract with Diamond (or, at that time, Capital and the small guys like Heroes World and a few other distributors).

If these books are so plentiful, as you say, then why don't we see them show up in comic shops more often?

I mean, at least a few of these shop owners have to be dealers, too, so wouldn't now be the time to bring those rare last issues out into the open for sale while they are so hot? Or, are they still holding onto them so that they can make an even bigger profit years on down the road?

 

I think youre taking this too personal.

Most people who read my comments understood what I was saying. You didnt

No need to read too much into this.

Have a nice day sir

[fastballspecial]

 

This is my white whale right now. 1:25 retailer incentive for Transformers Spotlight Orion Pax. Nothing in stores, the Bay, cons, or even the boards when I try to find this book.

 

Try the Transformer Thread they can tell you more about that book I would think.

 

We don't do variants in this thread. There are others for that.

 

[fastballspecial]

not weighing in on the debate per se, but I would point out that just because people "dont ever see book X at a comic shop", doesnt mean it didnt used to be in ALL the comic shops, was ordered lots, and now is just not in the content that gets moved around frequently.

 

Most comic shops are NOT re-supplying themselves with 90s books.

 

 

Thats exactly correct sir.

Most comic shops today buy and sell primarily to their buyers. theyre not in the "speculating" market.

Dealers back then were HEAVILY into speculating. We all know that

Chuck was THE KING of Pump n Dump. The absolute king.

He would pick up on trends and pump mercilessly on his monthly newssletters.

On a few occasions he would hit, just like Wizard would, but mostly it was buying books he would know he could dump easily.

 

I think that with you spreading the gospel of 1990s-Chuck Rozanski so many times in these last few messages that you should probably do a thread telling of your discipleship of Chuck.

I like how you're backtracking now, saying that comic shop owners aren't the dealers you are referring to and that you agree that comic shops don't order multiples of comics with the far-off hopes that they sell them for more than cover price.

How many comic shop owners AREN'T dealers? They sell comics, right? So, that would make them a comic dealer.

And, what small percentage of comic show dealers aren't comic shop owners? I don't know many "dealers" who only do shows who could order multiples of comics to stockpile WITHOUT a dealer contract with Diamond (or, at that time, Capital and the small guys like Heroes World and a few other distributors).

If these books are so plentiful, as you say, then why don't we see them show up in comic shops more often?

I mean, at least a few of these shop owners have to be dealers, too, so wouldn't now be the time to bring those rare last issues out into the open for sale while they are so hot? Or, are they still holding onto them so that they can make an even bigger profit years on down the road?

 

I think youre taking this too personal.

Most people who read my comments understood what I was saying. You didnt

No need to read too much into this.

Have a nice day sir

 

I agree relax. Its a discussion here not a personal vindication being right. Soak up the information here this is a lot.

 

I knew several dealers in the 90s that didn't own comics shops. There were plenty of ways to get books back then without owning a comic shop. I was in college and did several shows or flea markets a year without owning a comic shop.

 

Edited December 30, 2016 by Fastballspecial

[Lonzilla]

I knew several dealers in the 90s that didn't own comics shops. There were plenty of ways to get books back then without owning a comic shop. I was in college and did several shows or flea markets a year without owning a comic shop.

Funny, the 1st flea market I ever did was in 1989 the weekend the Tim Burton Batman movie came out and I sold every batman book that I had with me, close to a full longbox. I was buying 5-10 of every issue of Batman, X-men, ASM for a few years with the intent of doing weekend fleas or low level shows eventually.

If you really wanna laugh, I had a full set of 1986 Fleer basketball cards on my table priced at $25 and nobody even looked at it.