In the Shadow of the Atomic Age 6 6

[jbcomicbox]

Can there be any question that if "two eyes are better than one", "four eyes are better than two"?

 

[adamstrange]

RE: Geronimo

 

That's another great Kinstler cover!

 

RE: Space Action

 

They called me four eyes as a kid but I didn't look like that -- my body wasn't covered with spots.

 

 

Edited April 3, 2005 by adamstrange

[adamstrange]

Edited April 3, 2005 by adamstrange

[adamstrange]

Light romance -- courtesy Edgar Church

 

Edited April 3, 2005 by adamstrange

[rjpb]

I recall back in the mid-nineties that Dark Age, Atom Age and Atomic Age were all being used to describe the late forties to mid-fifties era of horror, crime, sci-fi, war and various esoteric comics.

It looks looks Atom Age had won out by 1998. Whatever the genisis of the term, it was a long overdue recognition that there was a period between the Golden & Silver Ages when other genres eclipsed the costumed hero books.

 

I've stated before my belief that the various comic ages really overlap rather than suddenly change on a given date, and sometimes the transition for titles that bridge the ages can be difficult to assess. Is the end of the Atom Age for Atlas horror/fantasy titles marked by the arrival of the comics code, or is it when they changed to Kirby dominated "monster" books? Yellow Claw - Atom age or Silver Age book (issue #1 would have been on the stands concurrent with Showcase #4)? What is the first Atom Age Batman or Superman book? Should Superhero comics even be called Atom Age? Do all comics dated 9/56 suddenly switch from Atom Age to SA titles just because Showcase #4 is released with that cover date? Even if they are Romance, Dells or Westerns? Isn't the arrival of the comics code a more defining moment for non-superhero books than the appearance of Showcase #4? Do Superhero books published during WW2 suddenly become Atom Age titles with a 1946 cover date, even if they only continued for a few more issues? Both Fawcett and Quality "superhero" books took on an Atom Age feel towards the end with an emphasis on "horror" and anti-communist themes, but this was in the early 50s, not 1946, so would this be a better place to make the change for these titles?

 

There seems to be little consensus as to where the Silver/Bronze age split should come, with an increasing acceptance that it may be different dates for diffferent titles, let alone companies, and this is an era where across the board cover price hikes would make it possible to take the easy way out. The Gold/Atom age split has no such luxury, and while the arrival of the code makes for an easy Atom/Silver visual marker, it includes a years worth of comics that pre-date Showcase #4. Any opinions on when the Golden Age and Atom Age really come to an end?

[adamstrange]

I recall back in the mid-nineties that Dark Age, Atom Age and Atomic Age were all being used to describe the late forties to mid-fifties era of horror, crime, sci-fi, war and various esoteric comics.

It looks looks Atom Age had won out by 1998. Whatever the genisis of the term, it was a long overdue recognition that there was a period between the Golden & Silver Ages when other genres eclipsed the costumed hero books.

 

I've stated before my belief that the various comic ages really overlap rather than suddenly change on a given date, and sometimes the transition for titles that bridge the ages can be difficult to assess. Is the end of the Atom Age for Atlas horror/fantasy titles marked by the arrival of the comics code, or is it when they changed to Kirby dominated "monster" books? Yellow Claw - Atom age or Silver Age book (issue #1 would have been on the stands concurrent with Showcase #4)? What is the first Atom Age Batman or Superman book? Should Superhero comics even be called Atom Age? Do all comics dated 9/56 suddenly switch from Atom Age to SA titles just because Showcase #4 is released with that cover date? Even if they are Romance, Dells or Westerns? Isn't the arrival of the comics code a more defining moment for non-superhero books than the appearance of Showcase #4? Do Superhero books published during WW2 suddenly become Atom Age titles with a 1946 cover date, even if they only continued for a few more issues? Both Fawcett and Quality "superhero" books took on an Atom Age feel towards the end with an emphasis on "horror" and anti-communist themes, but this was in the early 50s, not 1946, so would this be a better place to make the change for these titles?

 

There seems to be little consensus as to where the Silver/Bronze age split should come, with an increasing acceptance that it may be different dates for diffferent titles, let alone companies, and this is an era where across the board cover price hikes would make it possible to take the easy way out. The Gold/Atom age split has no such luxury, and while the arrival of the code makes for an easy Atom/Silver visual marker, it includes a years worth of comics that pre-date Showcase #4. Any opinions on when the Golden Age and Atom Age really come to an end?

 

Excellent summary of the questions!

 

I would add one more. Why does it matter what "age" a book belongs to?

[jbcomicbox]

I recall back in the mid-nineties that Dark Age, Atom Age and Atomic Age were all being used to describe the late forties to mid-fifties era of horror, crime, sci-fi, war and various esoteric comics.

It looks looks Atom Age had won out by 1998. Whatever the genisis of the term, it was a long overdue recognition that there was a period between the Golden & Silver Ages when other genres eclipsed the costumed hero books.

 

I've stated before my belief that the various comic ages really overlap rather than suddenly change on a given date, and sometimes the transition for titles that bridge the ages can be difficult to assess. Is the end of the Atom Age for Atlas horror/fantasy titles marked by the arrival of the comics code, or is it when they changed to Kirby dominated "monster" books? Yellow Claw - Atom age or Silver Age book (issue #1 would have been on the stands concurrent with Showcase #4)? What is the first Atom Age Batman or Superman book? Should Superhero comics even be called Atom Age? Do all comics dated 9/56 suddenly switch from Atom Age to SA titles just because Showcase #4 is released with that cover date? Even if they are Romance, Dells or Westerns? Isn't the arrival of the comics code a more defining moment for non-superhero books than the appearance of Showcase #4? Do Superhero books published during WW2 suddenly become Atom Age titles with a 1946 cover date, even if they only continued for a few more issues? Both Fawcett and Quality "superhero" books took on an Atom Age feel towards the end with an emphasis on "horror" and anti-communist themes, but this was in the early 50s, not 1946, so would this be a better place to make the change for these titles?

 

There seems to be little consensus as to where the Silver/Bronze age split should come, with an increasing acceptance that it may be different dates for diffferent titles, let alone companies, and this is an era where across the board cover price hikes would make it possible to take the easy way out. The Gold/Atom age split has no such luxury, and while the arrival of the code makes for an easy Atom/Silver visual marker, it includes a years worth of comics that pre-date Showcase #4. Any opinions on when the Golden Age and Atom Age really come to an end?

 

Excellent summary of the questions!

 

I would add one more. Why does it matter what "age" a book belongs to?

 

 

I do not think "it matters" in a substantive sense. But as a "descriptor", it conjures up images of certain style of books, genres and story lines.........When you say Golden Age I do not think of Spider-Man, or crime....."Hi, what do you collect?'....."Early Golden Age"....."Early Atlas", Silver Age DC"....it simply helps describe- accurately or not- a type of book and time period....

[rjpb]

Why does it matter what "age" a book belongs to?

 

It many respects, you are right, it shouldn't, but for organizational purposes, whether it's surfing ebay, searching through dealer stock, or merely sorting my own collection, I am grateful for the various "ages", no matter how imprecise.

[adamstrange]

Why does it matter what "age" a book belongs to?

 

It many respects, you are right, it shouldn't, but for organizational purposes, whether it's surfing ebay, searching through dealer stock, or merely sorting my own collection, I am grateful for the various "ages", no matter how imprecise.

 

My trouble is that I collect a little of everything, so the ages don't really help me find or describe what I collect. Most folks are a little more focused and the ages do help them. I think another reason we have ages is to define the key books and key influences. Action 1 and Showcase 4 are the generally acknowledged linchpins of their respective ages and there is greater demand for those two than if they were not.

 

BTW, I've talked with Jon about the Dark Ages label and I do like it. It neatly summarizes much of the 50s as a period where, comparatively, not much has been written about and pictured, but contains the development of a number of different ideas/threads affecting SA and beyond. My personal preference is to start the "prime era" of the Silver Age as 1960, with the 50s being the Dark Ages. But then I have no explanation for the 1946-1949.

[esquirecomics]

Reply: Take it directly from this horse's mouth. I, Jon Berk, never used or suggested the term "Atom Age". Actually, I suggested for this '49/'50-'56 period the term "Dark Age"....many of the books were "dark"......horror....crime ....etc....Also as used in historical terms the Dark Ages preceded the Renainnace ....(Silver Age)....BUT DESPITE being known historically as the Dark Age some very fine work....art, math etc. was done......So my suggestion was and had been for this time period in the comics: "The Dark Age" (not that anyone cares but my term for the present age.....with the mania of slabbing....is the "Plastic Age" of Comics...jb

 

But, but, but, if this is wrong in the Guide, then ... that ... could ... mean ... other .... things ... are ... wrong .... too.

 

I can't deal with such a mental concept on a Sunday.

[rjpb]

Perhaps I'm being too literal, but Dark Age conjurs up images of pre-code crime and horror to the exclusion of much else. This is why I prefer Atom Age to Atomic Age - the latter once again seems descriptively limited, where as the the late forties and the entire decade of the fifties has ben refered to as the "Atom Age" outside the realm of comic books. I would argue that much as the term Golden Age is used in the loosest sense to describe super-hero comics published up to the arrival of the comics code, that the Atom Age could be expanded in the its most liberal definition to include all pre-hero sci-fi and fantasy titles, and perhaps other non-super genres up through the end of the dime era. Sure the rise in cover price from 10 to 12¢ is somewhat arbitrary in relation to content, but it does allow for a clean visual break. The other advantage to this expansion, is that while scores of titles transitioned easily into the post-code era, most of them were long defunct (especially Atlas titles) well before the rise in cover price to 12¢. I realize it is probably too late to convince many of this arguement, as the term Atom Age has pretty well become identified with pre-code comics, but allowing for overlaps into both the Golden and Silver Ages, gives the Atom Age room to include nearly all comics not easily defined in terms of precious metals.

 

Sure, fandom got along for nearly 40 years without even bothering to find a catch-all name for the era the fell inbetween the Golden and Silver ages, and as Adamstrange implies, it is still hardly necessary, but if collectors are anything, they are prone to organization, and seem driven to catalog comics in broader terms than title, publisher, or genre.

[adamstrange]

Sure, fandom got along for nearly 40 years without even bothering to find a catch-all name for the era the fell inbetween the Golden and Silver ages, and as Adamstrange implies, it is still hardly necessary, but if collectors are anything, they are prone to organization, and seem driven to catalog comics in broader terms than title, publisher, or genre.

 

All good thoughts, Rjpb. If I had more energy, I'd respond more, but I've been doing quite a bit of posting/scanning. This kind of discussion does require energy because there are quite few trends inside, and, as you pointed out, outside of comics to consider. I think if you assigned 3 different PhDs to the topic that you'd end up with different mappings for the ages.

 

I love your line about collectors being prone to organization.

 

That's certainly true of many of the early founders of fandom who were/are indexers at heart. You can see this reading through the old RBCC as they INDEX everything -- radio shows, tv shows, serials, etc. I'm organized, but I ain't that obsessed!

 

Regarding it being too late to change: I'm not so sure. It used to be that just a few voices could be heard in the hobby. With the internet I think that good ideas can win out, regardless of the speaker. If there's a better way to define the ages and a good case is made for it, it's certainly possible for it to change. How many people say "Church" copy rather than Mile High?

Edited April 3, 2005 by adamstrange

[tth2]

Ok, you will either love or hate these next scans. Something totally different. I collected these because my wife and I met in Air Force basic training; therefore we were :

Silver, these GI Sweethearts were fantastic! Truly relics of a different era.

[tth2]

I saw the 10c silver thread mentioned in Comics General and wandered over. When you guys started discussing this thread there, I decided to join in. I would've posted in the silver thread, but it seemed to be more about high grade books, and I was strictly a low to mid-grade kinda gal. Because this thread was new, I figured you wouldn't mind some of my not-so-high grades. If you don't mind beaters in the silver thread, I've got plenty more DCs I could post.

Joanna, please DO feel free to post in the 10 cent SA thread. It is absolutely NOT for high grade books only.

[tth2]

Adam, very cool Black Knight cover!

[adamstrange]

Adam, very cool Black Knight cover!

 

Thanks!

 

Alas, there are no Maneely stories inside -- all Brodsky.

[rjpb]

Here is my favorite Quality superhero/horror hybrid issues Plastic Man #38 from 1952, the floating corpse was recycled for the cover of Web of Evil #15 a couple years later. While Cole didn't do the cover he did do a couple of interior stories and they too show Atom Age influences. This copy is worse shape than I remember with spine splits top and bottom, but you get the idea.

 

[rjpb]

This is the splash to the first story - a great example of Plas taking on Korean bad guys, but still retaining that unmistakable Cole style.

 

[rjpb]

A page from the Monk Mauley cover story - Cole combines humor and horror beautifully in this tale of the dead rising from the grave to enact their revenge - that's Plas at the bottom pretending to be Satan in order to send the corpses back to their graves.

 

[Bonds25]

Thanks to everyone who contibuted to this thread so far - AWESOME AWESOME books!!