General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean 29 29

[N/A]

There is some benefit to not posting a grade and it has nothing to do with integrity or a lack of it - some people just love to argue grade for the sake of arguing and not posting one and simply providing a description and pics provides the buyer with enough information to form their own opinion without having to answer for someone else's grading standards.

 

Obviously, in a perfect world grades would be spot on, buyers would be honest (along with sellers) and everybody should be on the same page - but not everyone feels comfortable assigning a grade to a book.

Roy, your comment mentions providing a description. I agree that a robust description with pic can be adequate. However, the sales thread that prompted my queries had no Return Policy, no grade, and no descriptions, only a front cover scan. Is that providing the buyer with enough information ?

 

Absolutely not enough, I agree.

 

Interesting how I mentioned this early in the VCC discussion thread but was referred to as a joker who is always negative about sellers here. I guess expecting a higher standard for sellers trying to move 3 digit books here is asking too much.

 

I don't see it as mutually exclusive.

[VintageComics]

There is some benefit to not posting a grade and it has nothing to do with integrity or a lack of it - some people just love to argue grade for the sake of arguing and not posting one and simply providing a description and pics provides the buyer with enough information to form their own opinion without having to answer for someone else's grading standards.

 

Obviously, in a perfect world grades would be spot on, buyers would be honest (along with sellers) and everybody should be on the same page - but not everyone feels comfortable assigning a grade to a book.

Roy, your comment mentions providing a description. I agree that a robust description with pic can be adequate. However, the sales thread that prompted my queries had no Return Policy, no grade, and no descriptions, only a front cover scan. Is that providing the buyer with enough information ?

 

Absolutely not enough, I agree.

 

Interesting how I mentioned this early in the VCC discussion thread but was referred to as a joker who is always negative about sellers here. I guess expecting a higher standard for sellers trying to move 3 digit books here is asking too much.

 

There's a big difference between someone having no description, no return policy, no grade and only a front cover scan - which almost anyone will agree is a waste of people's time unless they are a well known seller with tight grading - and someone who isn't a perfect grader.

 

The latter former shouldn't be selling. The former latter is the majority of the comic book world.

[techtre2003]

There is some benefit to not posting a grade and it has nothing to do with integrity or a lack of it - some people just love to argue grade for the sake of arguing and not posting one and simply providing a description and pics provides the buyer with enough information to form their own opinion without having to answer for someone else's grading standards.

 

Obviously, in a perfect world grades would be spot on, buyers would be honest (along with sellers) and everybody should be on the same page - but not everyone feels comfortable assigning a grade to a book.

Roy, your comment mentions providing a description. I agree that a robust description with pic can be adequate. However, the sales thread that prompted my queries had no Return Policy, no grade, and no descriptions, only a front cover scan. Is that providing the buyer with enough information ?

 

Absolutely not enough, I agree.

 

Interesting how I mentioned this early in the VCC discussion thread but was referred to as a joker who is always negative about sellers here. I guess expecting a higher standard for sellers trying to move 3 digit books here is asking too much.

 

There's a big difference between someone having no description, no return policy, no grade and only a front cover scan - which almost anyone will agree is a waste of people's time unless they are a well known seller with tight grading - and someone who isn't a perfect grader.

 

The latter shouldn't be selling. The former is the majority of the comic book world.

 

I think you have that flipped around; in which case I'd agree.

[comicdonna]

There is some benefit to not posting a grade and it has nothing to do with integrity or a lack of it - some people just love to argue grade for the sake of arguing and not posting one and simply providing a description and pics provides the buyer with enough information to form their own opinion without having to answer for someone else's grading standards.

 

Obviously, in a perfect world grades would be spot on, buyers would be honest (along with sellers) and everybody should be on the same page - but not everyone feels comfortable assigning a grade to a book.

Roy, your comment mentions providing a description. I agree that a robust description with pic can be adequate. However, the sales thread that prompted my queries had no Return Policy, no grade, and no descriptions, only a front cover scan. Is that providing the buyer with enough information ?

 

Absolutely not enough, I agree.

 

Interesting how I mentioned this early in the VCC discussion thread but was referred to as a joker who is always negative about sellers here. I guess expecting a higher standard for sellers trying to move 3 digit books here is asking too much.

 

There's a big difference between someone having no description, no return policy, no grade and only a front cover scan - which almost anyone will agree is a waste of people's time unless they are a well known seller with tight grading - and someone who isn't a perfect grader.

 

The latter shouldn't be selling. The former is the majority of the comic book world.

Correct me if i'm wrong but, I think Bob is referring to FD's VCC booth?

[VintageComics]

I think you have that flipped around; in which case I'd agree.

 

Apologies, corrected it!

[VintageComics]

Correct me if i'm wrong but, I think Bob is referring to FD's VCC booth?

 

I actually have no idea who Bob is talking about but if it's a reputable seller like FD who has always been a contributing part of this community since the dawn of time, they get a lot more leeway with me than an unknown seller who is a roll of the dice.

 

I realize the rules need to be fair for everyone but I personally wouldn't be making an example out of someone like FD.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[N/A]

Correct me if i'm wrong but, I think Bob is referring to FD's VCC booth?

 

I actually have no idea who Bob is talking about but if it's a reputable seller like FD who has always been a contributing part of this community since the dawn of time, they get a lot more leeway with me than an unknown seller who is a roll of the dice.

 

I realize the rules need to be fair for everyone but I personally wouldn't be making an example out of someone like FD.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

+1

[comicdonna]

Correct me if i'm wrong but, I think Bob is referring to FD's VCC booth?

 

I actually have no idea who Bob is talking about but if it's a reputable seller like FD who has always been a contributing part of this community since the dawn of time, they get a lot more leeway with me than an unknown seller who is a roll of the dice.

 

I realize the rules need to be fair for everyone but I personally wouldn't be making an example out of someone like FD.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, aside from forum rules, FD may be a perfect example for this discussion. His claims (which I believe to be true) are he's a tight grader, and used OSPG as a pricing tool. A pic and a price should be enough.

[Bomber-Bob]

Guys, I never took this personal and I don't want this to be a discussion of whether Donut is a good dealer or not. That isn't the point. I don't know Donut. How am I or anybody else that doesn't know Donut supposed to differentiate. You guys are basically saying the rules are for guys that don't know how to grade. The rules should be for everyone. Period. I never called Donut out, just asked about the rules. That is what I want to discuss. I don't want to discuss Donut.

[Iceman399]

Guys, I never took this personal and I don't want this to be a discussion of whether Donut is a good dealer or not. That isn't the point. I don't know Donut. How am I or anybody else that doesn't know Donut supposed to differentiate. You guys are basically saying the rules are for guys that don't know how to grade. The rules should be for everyone. Period. I never called Donut out, just asked about the rules. That is what I want to discuss. I don't want to discuss Donut.

 

The more rules there are the more rules there are to break, whine about, hump buttons on etc.

 

If a seller thinks they will maximize their return by simply posting a single scan with no grade, no description the power to them.

 

If a buyer isn't comfortable buying a book based on a single scan with no grade, no description they have a couple of options pm and ask or move on.

[VintageComics]

As I said, I realize there needs to be rules for everyone.

 

My personal opinions on various angles of this conversation?

 

Asking everyone to commit to front AND rear cover scans for every book they list is unreasonable as high volume sellers won't do it and low volume sellers will then use the high volume sellers as an excuse not to.

 

As an aside, I now I'm recognized as a good grader now but when I joined here 11 years ago I wasn't a very good grader even though I've been collecting for decades. To be honest, almost nobody knew how to 'CGC grade' when CGC opened up. Grading has changed and it seems to continue to if we're going to be honest.

 

Asking everyone to provide a grade, even if it's just a guess is reasonable but it does open the door to arguing over grade for those who don't have a clue. And lets face it, there is a lot of arguing over grade. It's one of the main reasons I decide to go with almost exclusively slabbed books - especially because CGC can be inconsistent even if a seller isn't.

 

Posting a return policy is definitely a benefit and a very nice way of giving people an idea of whether they want to deal with the person or not - especially if grading ability is suspect or there are other areas that make a buyer feel uncomfortable.

 

Maybe the policy of 'either post large scans of the front and rear or supply a grade' is a possible solution but that would need to be discussed.

 

I'm just not a fan of too many rules.

 

Ultimately, it's really falls to being a choice for the buyer - if you don't like the way the seller is selling his books then just walk away.

[VintageComics]

The more rules there are the more rules there are to break, whine about, hump buttons on etc.

 

If a seller thinks they will maximize their return by simply posting a single scan with no grade, no description the power to them.

 

If a buyer isn't comfortable buying a book based on a single scan with no grade, no description they have a couple of options pm and ask or move on.

 

Yeah, this is the side I lean to. More rules just means more arguing.

 

If a guy's books don't sell then they will eventually get the point. I mean we've had sellers ask questions here and improve their sales threads.

 

Again, I'm all for what everyone agrees on but the above is the way I'm leaning.

[N/A]

Guys, I never took this personal and I don't want this to be a discussion of whether Donut is a good dealer or not. That isn't the point. I don't know Donut. How am I or anybody else that doesn't know Donut supposed to differentiate. You guys are basically saying the rules are for guys that don't know how to grade. The rules should be for everyone. Period. I never called Donut out, just asked about the rules. That is what I want to discuss. I don't want to discuss Donut.

 

If you don't have enough information then ask or move on. Why would I force sellers with a proven track record to accommodate a nervous buyer?

[jsilverjanet]

Guys, I never took this personal and I don't want this to be a discussion of whether Donut is a good dealer or not. That isn't the point. I don't know Donut. How am I or anybody else that doesn't know Donut supposed to differentiate. You guys are basically saying the rules are for guys that don't know how to grade. The rules should be for everyone. Period. I never called Donut out, just asked about the rules. That is what I want to discuss. I don't want to discuss Donut.

 

If you don't have enough information then ask or move on. Why would I force sellers with a proven track record to accommodate a nervous buyer?

 

+1 not sure why this is still being discussed. To have all sellers conform to a set of rules for a buyer makes no sense

 

We have basic rules, if they aren't followed notify the seller (not the moderator)

 

If you need more info then contact the seller etc.

 

If you see a seller that isn't providing the info you need or don't agree with his sales thread (price,grade, return policy) then move on. Plenty of books from other sellers. I'm sure one will come along and meet your needs.

 

 

[N/A]

And this was the VCC I believe. There is no fear that someone will post in the thread before a buyer can work out details. I would like to encourage more sellers and not discourage those that are.

[Dick Pontoon]

Word.

 

[VintageComics]

And this was the VCC I believe. There is no fear that someone will post in the thread before a buyer can work out details. I would like to encourage more sellers and not discourage those that are.

 

Great point. The VCC is an entirely different animal than an open sales thread.

[Jeffro.]

Guys, I never took this personal and I don't want this to be a discussion of whether Donut is a good dealer or not. That isn't the point. I don't know Donut. How am I or anybody else that doesn't know Donut supposed to differentiate. You guys are basically saying the rules are for guys that don't know how to grade. The rules should be for everyone. Period. I never called Donut out, just asked about the rules. That is what I want to discuss. I don't want to discuss Donut.

 

If you don't have enough information then ask or move on. Why would I force sellers with a proven track record to accommodate a nervous buyer?

 

Because the rules as they exist should apply to everyone, across the board. This isn't about Donut, or me, or you, or Roy, or someone who signed up today and started selling. This is about a set of rules/guidelines that everyone is expected to adhere to if they want to sell here.

Just because you have a proven track record doesn't mean you can operate any way you like.

 

 

[Jeffro.]

This discussion has proven one thing, If you sell comics and don't assign a grade, you are losing potential buyers.

[VintageComics]

Guys, I never took this personal and I don't want this to be a discussion of whether Donut is a good dealer or not. That isn't the point. I don't know Donut. How am I or anybody else that doesn't know Donut supposed to differentiate. You guys are basically saying the rules are for guys that don't know how to grade. The rules should be for everyone. Period. I never called Donut out, just asked about the rules. That is what I want to discuss. I don't want to discuss Donut.

 

If you don't have enough information then ask or move on. Why would I force sellers with a proven track record to accommodate a nervous buyer?

 

Because the rules as they exist should apply to everyone, across the board. This isn't about Donut, or me, or you, or Roy, or someone who signed up today and started selling. This is about a set of rules/guidelines that everyone is expected to adhere to if they want to sell here.

Just because you have a proven track record doesn't mean you can operate any way you like.

 

 

I agree that there should be a minimum standard, just like for any interpersonal interaction. It's where that standard should be that most people disagree on.