Suspense Comics #3 Church copy just showed up 2 2

[lou_fine]

12 minutes ago, mrmitchgro said:

4 hours ago, MrBedrock said:

Mostly runs. The books I remember - all of the Fiction House, all of the ECs including the early pre trend, many of the Fox (Mystery Men and Wonderworld for sure), many Fawcetts including Whiz 3-10, Captain Marvel Jr. 1, Special Edition 1 and the Mr. Mind serial in Capt. Marvel, some of the early Detectives (#33, 39 and 40 for sure).

Wonder where those Pre Trend ECs are today...

Not sure about the Pre Trend EC's, but it looks like some of the other runs ended up in Bob Overstreet's personal collection after Burrell had picked them up directly from Chuck. 

Not sure if Bob would have also gone after the EC's since they were apparently the reason why he got into comic collecting in the first place, and hence should have already had a high grade run of them long before then. 

[Sqeggs]

17 hours ago, MrBedrock said:

Burrel did not get the Suspense 3. I definitely would have remembered that one.

He also did not store his books in an attic. 

Was his name even actually Burrel? 

[Sqeggs]

On 3/11/2017 at 8:32 AM, rob_react said:

I'm writing this up right now. There's no copy in the catalog multiple people have stated categorically that there's no Church copy. This book didn't pick up steam until the Gerber Guide came up so it wouldn't have been kept out of the catalog as a "key." This is pretty crazy. 

When this issue was discussed on the boards previously, there seemed to be a consensus that there was no Church copy.  The main argument as I recall was that since all the other issues in the run are listed in Chuck's catalog and this issue didn't have the high desirability then that it has now, no one would have picked that issue out to buy from Chuck pre-catalog.

I never thought that argument was entirely convincing because the cover is striking, which is why it's so desirable now.  It seems plausible to me that someone flipping through the Church books might have been taken with it even if they had never previously realized it existed.  In addition, some of the other Church books missing from Chuck's catalog -- such as some Baker St John romance books -- were also far from being the most desirable books in the collection from an early 1970s perspective.

In any event, it will be interesting to know the backstory, if it ends up being disclosed -- as perhaps it will as part of Heritage's write up in the auction catalog.

[rob_react]

32 minutes ago, Sqeggs said:

When this issue was discussed on the boards previously, there seemed to be a consensus that there was no Church copy.  The main argument as I recall was that since all the other issues in the run are listed in Chuck's catalog and this issue didn't have the high desirability then that it has now, no one would have picked that issue out to buy from Chuck pre-catalog.

I never thought that argument was entirely convincing because the cover is striking, which is why it's so desirable now.  It seems plausible to me that someone flipping through the Church books might have been taken with it even if they had never previously realized it existed.  In addition, some of the other Church books missing from Chuck's catalog -- such as some Baker St John romance books -- were also far from being the most desirable books in the collection from an early 1970s perspective.

In any event, it will be interesting to know the backstory, if it ends up being disclosed -- as perhaps it will as part of Heritage's write up in the auction catalog.

That's the likely scenario. I love the idea that someone just spotted this book and grabbed it years before the rest of us caught on. 

I guess it would have been weird either way. Either someone just happened to pull out one of the biggest books a decade before it was notable ("wow, what a cover") or Edgar missed a month on a title that was otherwise complete (which would have been unlikely.)

[Pickie]

49 minutes ago, Sqeggs said:

In any event, it will be interesting to know the backstory, if it ends up being disclosed -- as perhaps it will as part of Heritage's write up in the auction catalog.

 From an auctioneer's point of view in terms of the hammer price it would be a big mistake not to go into it and reveal as much as possible about the complete provenience. 

[lou_fine]

3 hours ago, rob_react said:

3 hours ago, Sqeggs said:

When this issue was discussed on the boards previously, there seemed to be a consensus that there was no Church copy.  The main argument as I recall was that since all the other issues in the run are listed in Chuck's catalog and this issue didn't have the high desirability then that it has now, no one would have picked that issue out to buy from Chuck pre-catalog.

I never thought that argument was entirely convincing because the cover is striking, which is why it's so desirable now.  It seems plausible to me that someone flipping through the Church books might have been taken with it even if they had never previously realized it existed.  In addition, some of the other Church books missing from Chuck's catalog -- such as some Baker St John romance books -- were also far from being the most desirable books in the collection from an early 1970s perspective.

In any event, it will be interesting to know the backstory, if it ends up being disclosed -- as perhaps it will as part of Heritage's write up in the auction catalog.

That's the likely scenario. I love the idea that someone just spotted this book and grabbed it years before the rest of us caught on. 

I guess it would have been weird either way. Either someone just happened to pull out one of the biggest books a decade before it was notable ("wow, what a cover") or Edgar missed a month on a title that was otherwise complete (which would have been unlikely.)

Well, if I was the lucky individual going through that massive pile of 20,000 books and came across the short 12-issue run of Suspense Comics, I would have taken both the Suspense 3 and also the Suspense 8 with the classic spider cover. 

In no uncertain terms would I be tossing those 2 books back into the big pile of undesireables. 

[rob_react]

21 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Well, if I was the lucky individual going through that massive pile of 20,000 books and came across the short 12-issue run of Suspense Comics, I would have taken both the Suspense 3 and also the Suspense 8 with the classic spider cover. 

In no uncertain terms would I be tossing those 2 books back into the big pile of undesireables. 

The pair would have set you back $27

[lou_fine]

21 minutes ago, rob_react said:

44 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Well, if I was the lucky individual going through that massive pile of 20,000 books and came across the short 12-issue run of Suspense Comics, I would have taken both the Suspense 3 and also the Suspense 8 with the classic spider cover. 

In no uncertain terms would I be tossing those 2 books back into the big pile of undesireables. 

The pair would have set you back $27

Well, that's a lot more than what I was expecting to pay.

In that case, I'll just take the covers and leave the interiors behind and I should be able to get them both for under $15 then.   

[N e r V]

3 hours ago, rob_react said:

That's the likely scenario. I love the idea that someone just spotted this book and grabbed it years before the rest of us caught on. 

I guess it would have been weird either way. Either someone just happened to pull out one of the biggest books a decade before it was notable ("wow, what a cover") or Edgar missed a month on a title that was otherwise complete (which would have been unlikely.)

Am I correct that it was the appearance in the Gerber book that got collectors interested with the books current demand?

Because unlike artists like Lou Fine or LB Cole who in some ways had to wait to be "discovered" by the collectors in the 70's Alex Schomburg was a "known" artist to the early collectors due to his Timely work. It might not be such a reach that someone would pull aside a signed cover of his that happens to be fairly exciting to look at.

A lot of pricing didn't land in comics where we all thought. Suspense comics #3 and Fantastic comics #3 were not a big deal to anyone in the 1980's vs other key books. They still had strong covers to look at back then.

If someone did just pull the book out based on the cover well god bless their good taste in comic covers.

 

 

[N e r V]

23 hours ago, Bronty said:

well, take another look?  My first thought when I saw it was that it looked a little crispy.   Nothing to kick out of bed, but a little toasty.    You can see it in the logo, and there is even a noticeable color change change between the toastiness at the left edge of the logo, and the middle and right of the logo.

 

 

The logo on the crippen copy seems much whiter.

 

I noticed the difference right away too.

 

So is it a bad scan? Heritage (and others) have produced some weak looking scans of books I bought from them up to and including weaker colours.

Is it weaker colours due to long term storage? We all know what heat or Mr. sun can do to colours even slowly over time.

Or maybe it's just a weak original colour strike. I've seen numerous HG GA books now with really weak colour strikes. Planet comics come to mind with several I've seen.

 

I'm not sure what it is but the structure looks tight and it's certainly got the history going for it. At 250k or whatever it hits I'd want to kick the tires in person.

[Sqeggs]

12 minutes ago, N e r V said:

Am I correct that it was the appearance in the Gerber book that got collectors interested with the books current demand?

Because unlike artists like Lou Fine or LB Cole who in some ways had to wait to be "discovered" by the collectors in the 70's Alex Schomburg was a "known" artist to the early collectors due to his Timely work. It might not be such a reach that someone would pull aside a signed cover of his that happens to be fairly exciting to look at.

A lot of pricing didn't land in comics where we all thought. Suspense comics #3 and Fantastic comics #3 were not a big deal to anyone in the 1980's vs other key books. They still had strong covers to look at back then.

If someone did just pull the book out based on the cover well god bless their good taste in comic covers.

 

 

I think it was Gerber that brought the book to people's attention because it's pretty scarce, so not many people knew it existed.  I'm not too sure that Schomburg would have been that big a selling point in the early 1970s. I don't recall him being nearly as popular as he is now, but I could be wrong and maybe some people were focused on him even then. 

[N e r V]

Alex Schomburg, Lou Fine, Bill Everett,etc. seemed to have exploded just in the last few years. I was only making the point that he was a pretty well known artist at the time. As a kid my great uncle introduced me to him as the Timely guy. Lou Fine was only starting to get noticed thanks to his works appearance in Steranko's HOC and try and find many people who knew who LB Cole was back then. He started getting his due in the early 80's.

 

Edited March 12, 2017 by N e r V

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

I love reading stuff like this. It's fascinating how the hobby has evolved in the last 40 years or so, in terms of collecting focus. It would be great if that Pedigree book ever appears. I mean the one that is supposed to be written by Ritter & Co.

[adamstrange]

Schomburg was one of the first artists to be featured on the cover of Overstreet but not until #10 which came out a couple years after the Church collection.

[N e r V]

Outside of family introductions I think I got introduced to Alex Schomburg with Steranko's HOC volume 1 (1970). I'm not old enough to have bought it originally but after showing an interest in his work I was given a copy. The book is littered with his covers along with a nice piece on the artist. Those two volumes probably had the biggest impact of my interest in GA books/creators outside of seeing the real deal. Also got my pulp collecting going along with a love of Paul's covers in the field.

By the time Overstreet featured Schomburg on its cover he had already returned to Marvel and did an issue of the Invaders I believe. There were a few other old timers in that issue if I remember correctly. 

I think the LB Cole Overstreet issue followed that one too. 

[Philflound]

On 3/11/2017 at 3:02 AM, quicksilver said:

I have actually, it is rather disappointing.

You should pop round and you can read it yourself.

http://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=29030

[Randall Dowling]

5 hours ago, N e r V said:

Am I correct that it was the appearance in the Gerber book that got collectors interested with the books current demand?

Because unlike artists like Lou Fine or LB Cole who in some ways had to wait to be "discovered" by the collectors in the 70's Alex Schomburg was a "known" artist to the early collectors due to his Timely work. It might not be such a reach that someone would pull aside a signed cover of his that happens to be fairly exciting to look at.

A lot of pricing didn't land in comics where we all thought. Suspense comics #3 and Fantastic comics #3 were not a big deal to anyone in the 1980's vs other key books. They still had strong covers to look at back then.

If someone did just pull the book out based on the cover well god bless their good taste in comic covers.

 

 

This is what most people say today but my recollection of the time was a little different.  When the Photo Journals came out, there were already a group of elite collectors that had been identifying the unusual and special golden age and precode horror books for over a decade.  Some of those people are on these boards, like Jon Berk and Pat Calhoun (among others).  Those guys were actively researching and writing about these "off the beaten track" gems in CBG and other fanzines and eventually the Comic Book Marketplace.  Those guys were after books like Suspense 3, Terrific 5, Fantastic 3, Hit 25, Black Cat 50, Crime Does Not Pay 24, Eerie 2, and many, many others long before the rest of the market had any idea.  Most collectors in the 1980s that ever ventured earlier than silver age hero books were busy chasing DC, Timely, EC, and maybe Fawcett.  But that small minority forged through quarter boxes, dollar bins, back rooms and basements for the cool stuff nobody else wanted.  And had been doing so for some time.  To these guys, Suspense 3 was a big deal.

When Ernie Gerber published his books, it opened up this much, much wider world to the rest of us.  I (and many other fellow collectors) would spend hours combing through those pages for new gems to find, making lists and then searching through mail order catalogs and the CBG to find these rarities.  But by then it was already pretty late.  Suspense 3 was on my first list and I searched and searched for a copy to no avail.  Being from Wisconsin and Minnesota, there just wasn't the access.  When I started looking, I think guide on it was a few hundred dollars.  But you would never find one for that price (same as today, pretty much).  The books that Ernie put on the dust jacket weren't arbitrary.  It's a pretty awesome cross section of all comics from all publishers.  Anyway, I've always had a lot of respect for those "trailblazers" like Pat and Jon (among others) that spent hours, days, weeks of their lives enduring boxes of comics in some old guy or lady's smelly basement or attic to clue the rest of us in. 

And, of course, much gratitude to Ernie Gerber, too!

Edited March 13, 2017 by Randall Dowling

[N e r V]

That post reminded how stupid other collector's thought I was in the 1980's and 1990's for going after Matt Baker books. Romance? Really. 

Lots of other stuff too I acquired with full abuse back then.

I always liked the good but obscure stuff. 

[Randall Dowling]

Or Archie's!  Remember how much condescension those collectors got? 

[lou_fine]

21 minutes ago, Randall Dowling said:

When the Photo Journals came out, there were already a group of elite collectors that had been identifying the unusual and special golden age and precode horror books for over a decade.  Some of those people are on these boards, like Jon Berk and Pat Calhoun (among others).  Those guys were actively researching and writing about these "off the beaten track" gems in CBG and other fanzines and eventually the Comic Book Marketplace.  Those guys were after books like Suspense 3, Terrific 5, Fantastic 3, Hit 25, Black Cat 50, Crime Does Not Pay 24, Eerie 2, and many, many others long before the rest of the market had any idea.

Well, somebody should have clued Geppi and Overstreet in on Terrific 5 when they sold the Overstreet copy for only $600 bsck in '95, only to have Metro listing it in the CBG at something like 10X that amount a mere 2 or 3 weeks later.   

Well, Metro paid for that in the end anyways when it came time for Geppi to price out their big piles of books.