Marvel's Falling Sales 6 6

[Prince Namor]

5 hours ago, 1Cool said:

I get what you are saying and I can sort of agree to an extent.  The general populace has become so jaded over the years that it takes more and more extremes to get people's juices flowin.  Killing off Wolverine for an issue won't do it - we have to kill him off for a year and temporarily replace him with an Asian girl to get everyone fired up.  I'm not 100% sure Marvel is that smart but maybe it is all one big long game that they have been planning for years.  If they are it may blow up in their faces since people tend to move on if strung along too long and most will never come back. 

Of course it's a game. 

Marvel is a BUSINESS. It's a CORPORATION.

The comic book hobby is full of people who still believe it's about 'characters'.

Marvel's goal is to sell comics. 

Convince the customers something is happening to sell more books. Been going on since the Golden Age. 

Thats why more emphasis is placed on the covers than any other part of the book. By the publisher AND the hobbyist. 

It's what sells it. It's what you remember. 

Edited April 13, 2017 by Chuck Gower

[Prince Namor]

9 hours ago, kav said:

If you don't get it there's not much anyone can say to explain it.  Pretty much everyone else can see the forced diversity, and it has nothing to do with making Jimmy Olsen a fish boy.  Not even close.

Ah, troll bait. Nothing to add to the conversation. Par for the course.

No thanks.

[kav]

1 minute ago, Chuck Gower said:

Ah, troll bait. Nothing to add to the conversation. Par for the course.

No thanks.

wow you worked 3 cliche phrases into one short post!!!  

[Prince Namor]

4 hours ago, drotto said:

The concept of forced diversity is not because Marvel is creating minority characters.  The perception of forced diversity is from those characters replacing long established ones, being given media coverage way beyond the characters popularity, and the characters being given solo books, and prime storyline roles ahead of established characters.  Essentially the characters are being given the spotlight without "earning" it or having the popularity to deserve it.

You mean, sort of how they did with the New Universe? And 2099? And Ultimate? And... what are some other ones...

In other words.... Been done before. It's about expanding. Same old, same old.

It's not about diversity. It's about expanding.

[Prince Namor]

Just now, kav said:

wow you worked 3 cliche phrases into one short post!!!  

More troll bait. Still nothing to add, Point proven.

No thanks.

[Prince Namor]

4 hours ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

+1 

Black Panther was a welcomed NEW character! Maybe "forced" is a strong word, but I can see where people are coming from. If the diversity comes from out of nowhere and replaces a established character, I wouldn't turn it away at least not right away. But it would have to seem justified and that's why I think X23 is popular, if they hadn't of killed off Wolverine then X23 would still be in the background and not at the forefront as a character. A sidekick if you will. As far as other diversity, maybe, Marvel wanted us to take a hard look at a different way of doing things. If that's it, so be it. But then to come out and tell us that we're stubborn because we miss the old style and that "we" won't embrace diversity and that loyalty aint but a thang, is a different story entirely.

If they were actual "new" characters with diversity with a "soul" these would be different arguements.

I don't know how to nest in this new forum, so I;ll try and address this the best I can....

It was the 60's... if you don't think that there were people not happy with the idea of a black character in comics, then you may want to talk to people who grew up during that time. I knew people who wouldn't read Luke Cage because he was a black character, and that was in the 70's... He may be accepted NOW, by a generation of people who were not there to get shocked by him when he first appeared, but... that's the whole point.

Create, shock and over time people will just accept it.

Stan Lee had the foresight to have Jack Kirby draw a full face covering mask (originally the Panthers mouth and jaw were exposed, SHOWING he was black) because he was worried how it'd be seen.

And X-23 is just as forced a character as any you're talking about, she's had numerous solo series, long before Wolvie got killed. And what about Miles Morales... what'd HE do to get so accepted? Wasn't he FORCED upon everyone? When Bendis tried to tell us he was going to be the MAIN Spider-man in the Marvel Universe last year (a lie used to sell more books), there was no outrage.... why?

He was forced upon us. They stayed with it. He's accepted.

And I've explained why there isn't any 'new' characters, and the 'soul' of any of the classic ones was sucked out a long time ago....

Edited April 13, 2017 by Chuck Gower

[Prince Namor]

4 hours ago, classicaaron said:

I know we all want legacy numbering but its not likely it will ever stick or last.  this latest ploy is just marketing to hit some milestone numbers and they will be right back to vol 20 # 1 in no time.  So instead of starting over time and time again at random would it be better off if they just used an yearly number system.  for instance each year has 12 issues, so right now for april the book would be labeled 2017 #4, come January its 2018 #1 and it runs through #12.  at least we could keep track of when things came out and would be much easier to know what volume these books are in.

I really noticed how frustrating all these different volumes are this past month as I converted my comic spreadsheet over to a comic app and had to search 10 volumes of punisher to find the right #1's.  and its like this for basically every title now and will only get worse.

The purpose is to have sales spikes for #1's and new events, so.... they probably won't do that.

If there ever comes a time when numbers stabilize, in the 100,000+ range, they may consider it.... but I imagine for now they're going to keep doing what they're doing because they get that 100,000 copy sales spike when they do it.

[ComicConnoisseur]

4 hours ago, OrangeNemesis said:

i cant even build up enough energy to discuss Marvel anymore. That's how much of a sour taste i have regarding them and their antics.

The funny thing is their upcoming movies are all home runs. So hard to believe that Hollywood Marvel is actually doing a better job than comic book Marvel.  I remember thinking I hope the Hollywood guys do not mess it up. It seems they are getting it right,while the comics division is lost.

 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2017 by ComicConnoisseur

[Prince Namor]

19 hours ago, drotto said:

I wonder if a seemingly radical idea might work for Marvel.  Reduce, consolidate, and simplify.....

 

Put you best teams on the main books and really concentrate on quality and keeping those teams consistent....

 

Gives this setup a minimum of 2 to 3 years to re-establish and stabilize the MU....

 

Lower the prices.....

This is all the Marvel CEO would actually hear of what you said.... right before he threw you out the 52nd floor window. LOL.

Marvel's purpose.... isn't to establish a cohesive Superhero Universe... it's to make money.

NOTHING is going to bring back the days of 250,000 copy a month comic books. They already played the majority part in killing that.

Walking Dead is the BIGGEST deal in comics. And it sells, what.... 70,000 copies a month?

Marvel is in an endless cycle of hype. There is NOTHING that is going to save it.

Least of all, tidying up their 'universe'.

It might make a small portion of comicdom happy, but it won't make Marvel's CEO anything other than out of a job.

 

[comicquant]

On 4/3/2017 at 8:15 PM, lizards2 said:

It looks like they airbrushed out her middle finger...,.

Not a single nipple either

[Prince Namor]

3 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

The funny thing is their upcoming movies are all home runs. So hard to believe that Hollywood Marvel is actually doing a better job than comic book Marvel.  I remember thinking I hope the Hollywood guys do not mess it up. It seems they are getting it right,while the comics division is lost.

 

 

 

There are plenty of well written and well drawn comics that come out every month. People just don't read new comics anymore. Or not enough anyway.

[Broke as a Joke]

Marvel has always thrown everything at the wall and hoped something sticks.  Problem now is the people throwing it are talentless and horribly uncreative.

[masterlogan2000]

28 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

Marvel is a BUSINESS. It's a CORPORATION.
Marvel's goal is to sell comics. 

Convince the customers something is happening to sell more books.

It's what sells it. It's what you remember. 

And yet, that's the heart of the conversation here.  "Marvel's Falling Sales".

Clearly these gimmicks are not selling anymore.  They are not convincing anyone to buy more books.  They are alienating their core readership and losing more readers than they are picking up.

As a BUSINESS, they have done an awful job with regards to comic sales.

11 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

It was the 60's... if you don't think that there were people not happy with the idea of a black character in comics, then you may want to talk to people who grew up during that time. I knew people who wouldn't read Luke Cage because he was a black character, and that was in the 70's... He may be accepted NOW, by a generation of people who were not there to get shocked by him when he first appeared, but... that's the whole point.

Create, shock and over time people will just accept it.

But was Luke Cage "FORCED" upon the readers?  You "knew people who wouldn't read Luke Cage," so I'm guessing the answer is no.  Did Luke Cage take over the Captain America mantle?  Did The Incredible Hulk comic get canned so that Luke Cage could be promoted?

Creating a NEW character and publishing a NEW comic series based on that character is far different from changing the RACE or GENDER of an already ESTABLISHED character.  You can still sell comics with the former, and you're not FORCING anything on your readership to accomplish it.

[Get Marwood & I]

20 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

The funny thing is their upcoming movies are all home runs. So hard to believe that Hollywood Marvel is actually doing a better job than comic book Marvel.  I remember thinking I hope the Hollywood guys do not mess it up. It seems they are getting it right,while the comics division is lost.

 

True, but the movies are still new and fresh and can cherry pick from the best of the last 60 years of storytelling. What do you honestly think the Guardians of The Galaxy 27 Part II film will be like?

[kav]

yep

with Aunt May Groot.  And variant endings.

Edited April 13, 2017 by kav

[ADAMANTIUM]

44 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

I don't know how to nest in this new forum, so I;ll try and address this the best I can....

It was the 60's... if you don't think that there were people not happy with the idea of a black character in comics, then you may want to talk to people who grew up during that time. I knew people who wouldn't read Luke Cage because he was a black character, and that was in the 70's... He may be accepted NOW, by a generation of people who were not there to get shocked by him when he first appeared, but... that's the whole point.

Create, shock and over time people will just accept it.

Stan Lee had the foresight to have Jack Kirby draw a full face covering mask (originally the Panthers mouth and jaw were exposed, SHOWING he was black) because he was worried how it'd be seen.

And X-23 is just as forced a character as any you're talking about, she's had numerous solo series, long before Wolvie got killed. And what about Miles Morales... what'd HE do to get so accepted? Wasn't he FORCED upon everyone? When Bendis tried to tell us he was going to be the MAIN Spider-man in the Marvel Universe last year (a lie used to sell more books), there was no outrage.... why?

He was forced upon us. They stayed with it. He's accepted.

And I've explained why there isn't any 'new' characters, and the 'soul' of any of the classic ones was sucked out a long time ago....

I hear you! I can imagine with a name like "Black Panther" that didn't rest well with some either  No Worries and thanks for setting me straight, I thought twice about it when I was typing but hit send anyway X 23 didn't seemed forced on me but I wasn't with her from the beginning, and the Spiderman, I agree didn't go over well or didn't find his mainstay even though he was marketed as such.

 

Thank you for speaking  and don't worry about the new boards, I always welcome the others views as I don't think that I know a lot  

[Hamlet]

One thing I wonder about is from a practical standpoint, are there really any more new, original stories to tell about these long running characters anymore? 

The reboots, and the renumberings, and the constant tinkering with gender/race/etc may stem from the fact that at some point you just run out of stories to tell and have to start retelling them over and over with something changed.

Some of those retellings are good ( say Miller's Batman Year One ) and some are bad, but frankly, there is going to be difficulty with rehashing the same things over and over for 50 years.

On the one hand, people want the comics to be true to the characters, but on the other hand, in order for the comic to actually be new, it has to different in some way from the past issues.  How do you actually do that with any consistently after 50 years of stories?  Either its the same old thing that you've read 10 times already, or they've changed something too much and it doesn't feel like the character you grew up with.

 

[lizards2]

44 minutes ago, comicquant said:

On 4/3/2017 at 5:15 PM, lizards2 said:

It looks like they airbrushed out her middle finger...,.

Not a single nipple either

[lizards2]

13 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

I hear you! I can imagine with a name like "Black Panther" that didn't rest well with some either

The proto-type from the old Assless publishing group was the "Black Pantser".  That version didn't quite take in many locales either.

[kav]

There are only a certain number of stories but there is an infinite number of variations on how you tell them.  Essentially there is man  vs man, man vs self, man vs nature.  There will always be great stories to be told unfortunately Marvel is not doing that.  They are just regurgitating.  Not only are they regurgitating other comic stories they are regurgitating stuff you would see on the CW.