Marvel's Falling Sales 6 6

[Prince Namor]

10 hours ago, Mercury Man said:

With the exception of Captain Marvel, those were all new characters that were created.    Not some cheap replacement behind the mask. 

Okay let's look at the late 70's into the eighties, what'd we get?

Spider-woman? Derivative.   

She-Hulk? Derivative.

Moon Knight was original? Basically Marvel's rip off of Batman. That must mean Silk is original too!

A new team of MUTANTS? How many of those played a big part?

Alpha Flight was a new idea - of diversity!

Excalibur? Another team of diverse foreigners.

What about those Guardians of the Galaxy teams made up of an Inhuman or a Skrull or a future version of Yellowjacket or Wonder Man? Rehash.

New Warriors? A diverse group of YOUNG teen superheroes featuring some rehash - Namorita, some unused (Marvel Boy)...

Scarlet Spider?

Spider-Girl? These aren't NEW.

Marvel has ALWAYS rehashed characters and ideas. And tried to diversify and reach more markets.

C'mon. It's been DECADES since Marvel really TRIED to get creative with REALLY new comics.

And that ended in the failure of the New Universe.

 

 

[Prince Namor]

8 hours ago, SteppinRazor said:

I think his point should be well taken, as should yours.  Marvel has and has had diversity, to point to that as a cause definitely seems like Marvel is hearing the squeaky wheel.  However, it needs to lead somewhere, not just a cheap replacement as you say.  One thing is certain though, if they want to survive, they have to move forward.  Stagnate with the same characters and they will eventually die from lack of interest.  There should be a new Captain America.  Steve Rogers must be tired as $#&^%.  There should be a new Punisher (complete with a different name), it's not a stable career path.  And you're right, it can't just be shifting this guy from this costume to that costume and calling it good.  You actually need to do the work - the old guy should go out with a bang and the new guy should be created with the same level of energy as the old one was.

This is a thinking they've had for 20 years. DC as well.  

Theyve tried to replace Cap before, and Iron Man, and Green Lantern and Robin, and Superboy and the Hulk and Thor, and many other lesser names...

Been going on for decades.

The problem is, it hasn't really brought the new sales and excitement it hoped it would.

So they reboot, retread and recycle more.

Only in 2016-17, it's somehow became 'political' to do so.

[Bird]

I myself enjoy many of the new "legacy" characters. The hero form may be derivative but I like Amadeus Cho as a character (not that I read Totally Awesome Hulk but I read the hulk/Hercules series when he was introduced). I always liked Monica Rambeau, powers that are useful in very limited situations but she became leader of The Avengers. Miles Morales was fun when I read that stuff initially. et cetera, et cetera

Even Batman is derivative. Many superheroes derive from Superman who was himself derivative.

I agree that the politics of the times now are behind much of the "outrage".

[Prince Namor]

1 minute ago, Bird said:

I myself enjoy many of the new "legacy" characters. The hero form may be derivative but I like Amadeus Cho as a character (not that I read Totally Awesome Hulk but I read the hulk/Hercules series when he was introduced). I always liked Monica Rambeau, powers that are useful in very limited situations but she became leader of The Avengers. Miles Morales was fun when I read that stuff initially. et cetera, et cetera

Even Batman is derivative. Many superheroes derive from Superman who was himself derivative.

I agree that the politics of the times now are behind much of the "outrage".

But kav has WE who outnumbers everyone! The board community!

Hee hee hee!

[kav]

3 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

But kav has WE who outnumbers everyone! The board community!

Hee hee hee!

I don't see folks agreeing with you here on your SJW rants.

[kav]

2 hours ago, Ken Aldred said:

 

Here's some top, value-for-money reading material, Kav, from my all-time favourite comicbook company...

 

 

 

Thx to you I just had to order the Gemstone reprint of this book to find out was happens to Cora-and HARRY!  I ordered a bunch of others too from MCS.

[Prince Namor]

2 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

Yes, except that Monica Rambeau was a new, unique character. The reason she used the name of an old character is the same reason She-Hulk and Spider-Woman were created: trademark, not diversity.

Ah, I see. So as long as the retread is justified in your eyes it's okay. I'll be sure to ask from now on. 

And that means... Cindy Moon (Silk) is a new character. And Riri Williams as the new Iron Man. 

New unique individual character replacing the old... wait I thought that's what the WE around here was mad about. 

2 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

The X-Men revamp featured a mostly new team because the old team failed (whether that was the fault of the characters featured

 

...made up of a diverse group of foreign superheroes! Marvel was trying to tell us we're all the SAME! The horror! The outrage!

2 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

Regardless, nobody here is complaining about the creation of unique characters, even if they're lame like Rage or Squirrel Girl.

 

Uhh... yes they are. 

[Prince Namor]

16 minutes ago, Bird said:

I myself enjoy many of the new "legacy" characters. The hero form may be derivative but I like Amadeus Cho as a character (not that I read Totally Awesome Hulk but I read the hulk/Hercules series when he was introduced). I always liked Monica Rambeau, powers that are useful in very limited situations but she became leader of The Avengers. Miles Morales was fun when I read that stuff initially. et cetera, et cetera

And that's what current READERS of Marvel continue to tell me.

The complainers always seem to be people who aren't reading the books anymore anyway.

Thor readership has remained consistent through Jane Fosters reign. 

'Oldschool' titles like Amazing Spider-man have lost readers without any diversity. Where are the long time readers still defending it?

Overall comic sales are down for almost everyone, not just Marvel.

Personally, I like to see some new blood at Marvel... and retailers in particular SHOULD like it, because it's one of the few things making people actually check out new books and grow the market.

[Ken Aldred]

20 minutes ago, kav said:

Thx to you I just had to order the Gemstone reprint of this book to find out was happens to Cora-and HARRY!  I ordered a bunch of others too from MCS.

ECs have some brilliant stories and a lot of A-list 1950s comic art.  Sure you'll enjoy them.

[1950's war comics]

27 minutes ago, kav said:

Thx to you I just had to order the Gemstone reprint of this book to find out was happens to Cora-and HARRY!  I ordered a bunch of others too from MCS.

No kidding this one page alone is sooo intriguing  ! Wow is he going to try and throw her off the roller coaster ?? this is brilliant !

[kav]

Just now, 1950's war comics said:

No kidding this one page alone is sooo intriguing  ! Wow is he going to try and throw her off the roller coaster ?? this is brilliant !

Yep I think so.  Cora is toast but pretty sure she'll have her REVENGE:

[1950's war comics]

11 minutes ago, Ken Aldred said:

ECs have some brilliant stories and a lot of A-list 1950s comic art.  Sure you'll enjoy them.

I might have to get some GA Suspenstories or romance reprints myself too ! or i know you can still get lots of the not so popular GA romance comics for little more than the price of a new issue of todays modern politically correct DREK!

Edited May 8, 2017 by 1950's war comics

[Lucky Baru]

3 hours ago, Ken Aldred said:

The book that sticks out in my mind as taking me forever to read, just poring over the often intricate artwork and the dialogue, is Batman vs Grendel 1 by Matt Wagner. Absolutely brilliant comic. Early 90s, but still before the trend towards increasing decompression and cinematic widescreen filler techniques.

Same way he handled the Shadow.  Matt Wagner is underrated.

[kav]

Just now, NKOTB4EVA said:

Frazetta's only solo work for EC.

[kav]

Wait i have this book and it has a Frazetta story.  Sent to me by someone who hates GA

[kav]

Its probably williamson ferzetta...

[rjrjr]

11 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

I will point out another difference, and it is the most important one.

Marvel sales are down. Way down. That is all that matters. For some reason their loyal fans are tuning them out, and have gone on to other things. 

 

 

Event fatigue, variant fatigue, #1 fatigue...  Tons of reasons this is happening.  I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner.

[kav]

anyone have a list of all the EC williamson/frazetta books?

[kav]

36 minutes ago, NKOTB4EVA said:

Williamson/Frazetta ain't so bad 

NKOTB4EVA

 I got it!

[SteppinRazor]

1 hour ago, Chuck Gower said:

This is a thinking they've had for 20 years. DC as well.  

Theyve tried to replace Cap before, and Iron Man, and Green Lantern and Robin, and Superboy and the Hulk and Thor, and many other lesser names...

Been going on for decades.

The problem is, it hasn't really brought the new sales and excitement it hoped it would.

So they reboot, retread and recycle more.

Only in 2016-17, it's somehow became 'political' to do so.

They've tried, but not with finality, so people never got engaged.  They always had the door propped open.  Moving on from Bruce Wayne for example is simple - Batman Beyond.  Story's already there, just need to adjust technology to current.  There's an easy way to move on from each of those characters, but the commitment has to be there to stick it through.