Marvel's Falling Sales 6 6

[Prince Namor]

6 hours ago, NUNYABZ said:

You do a pretty good job of distracting from the original theme of this thread.  Especially when Marvel is stating that diversity was their intent and it's affecting their bottom line.  

Marvel was poo poo before and they've sunk even lower now thinking they could jump on the social justice wimp bandwagon.

In my lifetime, Marvel has ALWAYS diversified. 

An unheard of teen age superhero who was the star of his own book - a black superhero who was the star of his own book, a black superhero from Africa! - a black Captain Marvel - a team of mutants from all over the world - remember that one? Giant Size X-Men #1 that featured an African female, an Indian, a Canadian, an Irishman - was that Social Justice?

The purpose of it was to attract readers of different nationalities! Oh my god! Those hippie socialists!

What about earlier than that? Remember their expansion to attract female readers with The Cat, Shanna, and Night Nurse, the latter having been written by a female! The horrors! What were they trying to do to the impressionable minds of America???

Nothing. They were trying to sell more books and couldn't figure out how.

They STILL don't know how.

Marvel's current diversification and inability to market it is no different than at any other time - they've added new characters that really were just remakes of what they'd did before...

Was Spider-woman really such a sensational idea, to still be accepted 30+ years later, as ok and original? How is that so different from Spider-Gwen?

Yes, Marvel said they were going for diversity here. No different than before. They also said those characters aren't going anywhere. Same as before.

Sure. they would've liked to have seen those new characters sell better (though Jane Foster and Riri were two of their top selling regular titles).

But everything else played out exactly as it always has: Shake up the line, stir up some controversy, create new properties, have an angle to come back to the classic characters. 

It's no different than what they've always done. Recycle, retread, reboot.

Only difference now is the tin foil hat 'wimp' whiners with their political agendas on here have another imaginary enemy of the people to point at.

Seriously, it's getting old and it's against forum rules.

The only thing Marvel is really guilty of is listening to the squeaky wheel.

 

 

[kav]

10 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

The only thing Marvel is really guilty of is listening to the squeaky wheel.

Speaking of squeaky wheels...

You do realize you are repeating yourself?  WE GOT IT.  We just don't agree with it.

[ComicConnoisseur]

Not just Marvel sales now,as it seems all comic sales took a big fall  in sales in April.

What could be the cause? 

Unlucky 13%: Comics Book Sales Take a Plunge in April.

http://www.newsarama.com/34374-unlucky-13-comics-book-sales-take-a-plunge-in-april.html

Marvel Comics's Secret Empire #0 and DC Comics's Batman #21 and The Flash #21 (the start of the four-part "The Button" crossover) couldn't stop April 2017's Direct Market comic book sales from falling over 13% versus last year, as signs continue to point to the industry being in the midst of its first sales decline in five years. 

[Mercury Man]

On 5/5/2017 at 3:26 AM, Chuck Gower said:

An unheard of teen age superhero who was the star of his own book - a black superhero who was the star of his own book, a black superhero from Africa! - a black Captain Marvel - a team of mutants from all over the world - remember that one? Giant Size X-Men #1 that featured an African female, an Indian, a Canadian, an Irishman - was that Social Justice?

With the exception of Captain Marvel, those were all new characters that were created.    Not some cheap replacement behind the mask. 

[ComicConnoisseur]

On 5/5/2017 at 3:26 AM, Chuck Gower said:

It's no different than what they've always done. Recycle, retread, reboot.

Only difference now is the tin foil hat 'wimp' whiners with their political agendas on here have another imaginary enemy of the people to point at.

I will point out another difference, and it is the most important one.

Marvel sales are down. Way down. That is all that matters. For some reason their loyal fans are tuning them out, and have gone on to other things. 

 

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

5 minutes ago, Mercury Man said:

With the exception of Captain Marvel, those were all new characters that were created.    Not some cheap replacement behind the mask. 

+1

 

[romanheart]

49 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

Not just Marvel sales now,as it seems all comic sales took a big fall  in sales in April.

What could be the cause? 

Unlucky 13%: Comics Book Sales Take a Plunge in April.

http://www.newsarama.com/34374-unlucky-13-comics-book-sales-take-a-plunge-in-april.html

Marvel Comics's Secret Empire #0 and DC Comics's Batman #21 and The Flash #21 (the start of the four-part "The Button" crossover) couldn't stop April 2017's Direct Market comic book sales from falling over 13% versus last year, as signs continue to point to the industry being in the midst of its first sales decline in five years. 

I am going to take a stab at this one.

Comic book movie/tv show fatigue.

I for one couldn't care less about keeping up with most of the shows. I was dedicated to Gotham, DD, and Agent Carter before it was cancelled, and even I can't keep on top of all those series. I saw some JJ, and IF, and personally was not impressed. It seems to me, they are employing the same CB tricks to pump their tv show ratings. Other than DD, I refuse to be hooked on anything. Batman had the most meaning for me but I absolutely detest B. Afleck as an actor.

DC and Marvel are both guilty of the same ploys. From a collector standpoint, I will only put money in the back issues. I rarely plunge in to the modern book market anymore. Digital sales and TPB make the most sense for a reader standpoint.

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

26 minutes ago, romanheart said:

I am going to take a stab at this one.

Comic book movie/tv show fatigue.

I for one couldn't care less about keeping up with most of the shows. I was dedicated to Gotham, DD, and Agent Carter before it was cancelled, and even I can't keep on top of all those series. I saw some JJ, and IF, and personally was not impressed. It seems to me, they are employing the same CB tricks to pump their tv show ratings. Other than DD, I refuse to be hooked on anything. Batman had the most meaning for me but I absolutely detest B. Afleck as an actor.

DC and Marvel are both guilty of the same ploys. From a collector standpoint, I will only put money in the back issues. I rarely plunge in to the modern book market anymore. Digital sales and TPB make the most sense for a reader standpoint.

 

I noticed that too,especially the CW shows. One thing about Daredevil Netflix was it was old school in the Dark n Gritty way, and why it was the best super hero TV series ever. I am hoping The Punisher show has the same kind of feel.

The CW Flash show may have jumped the shark when it did its Glee homage a few weeks ago. 

With the Ben Affleck Batman I am very disappointed in his performance. I was one of his biggest supporters when he got the job, but after seeing him in the role,well let's just say he is no Christian Bale. I hope Affleck quits the role before the new Batman solo movie comes out.

 

Edited May 7, 2017 by ComicConnoisseur

[SteppinRazor]

2 hours ago, Mercury Man said:

With the exception of Captain Marvel, those were all new characters that were created.    Not some cheap replacement behind the mask. 

I think his point should be well taken, as should yours.  Marvel has and has had diversity, to point to that as a cause definitely seems like Marvel is hearing the squeaky wheel.  However, it needs to lead somewhere, not just a cheap replacement as you say.  One thing is certain though, if they want to survive, they have to move forward.  Stagnate with the same characters and they will eventually die from lack of interest.  There should be a new Captain America.  Steve Rogers must be tired as $#&^%.  There should be a new Punisher (complete with a different name), it's not a stable career path.  And you're right, it can't just be shifting this guy from this costume to that costume and calling it good.  You actually need to do the work - the old guy should go out with a bang and the new guy should be created with the same level of energy as the old one was.

[CheeseFrog]

1 hour ago, romanheart said:

I am going to take a stab at this one.

Comic book movie/tv show fatigue.

I for one couldn't care less about keeping up with most of the shows. I was dedicated to Gotham, DD, and Agent Carter before it was cancelled, and even I can't keep on top of all those series. I saw some JJ, and IF, and personally was not impressed. It seems to me, they are employing the same CB tricks to pump their tv show ratings. Other than DD, I refuse to be hooked on anything. Batman had the most meaning for me but I absolutely detest B. Afleck as an actor.

DC and Marvel are both guilty of the same ploys. From a collector standpoint, I will only put money in the back issues. I rarely plunge in to the modern book market anymore. Digital sales and TPB make the most sense for a reader standpoint.

 

I absolutely cannot do modern books anymore.  I realize there is some potentially good stuff from other publishers, but DC and Marvel have completely ruined that for me.  It's just not for me... too expensive, poor art, hollow writing, and they take 5 minutes to read (they read like some long, drawn out texting conversation).  Can't do it, so that's why I don't read modern books anymore.  I recently grabbed an ASM 13 (vol 1), and it took me 30 minutes to get through it... was fantastic 

For the MCU, super hero fatigue is inevitable.  Marvel sees success in the theatres, and of course wants more of it... which is why we now have horrible TV shows like the Defenders (look, a show about 4 heroes whose super powers are to punch really hard.. *yawn* ).  I think failures like this, and DC's horrible movies  will eventually take the steam out of the theatres... and maybe they'll start hiring talent again for the books?  The problem with getting good talent on the books is that these publishers are notorious for not paying much, and with so many other higher paying avenues to pursue in the entertainment industry (film, games, etc...), good luck harvesting that talent.

Collectible books will probably always be sought after, but modern books aren't collectible, and they suck.

[ComicConnoisseur]

2 minutes ago, CheeseFrog said:

I absolutely cannot do modern books anymore.  I realize there is some potentially good stuff from other publishers, but DC and Marvel have completely ruined that for me.  It's just not for me... too expensive, poor art, hollow writing, and they take 5 minutes to read (they read like some long, drawn out texting conversation).  Can't do it, so that's why I don't read modern books anymore.  I recently grabbed an ASM 13 (vol 1), and it took me 30 minutes to get through it... was fantastic 

For the MCU, super hero fatigue is inevitable.  Marvel sees success in the theatres, and of course wants more of it... which is why we now have horrible TV shows like the Defenders (look, a show about 4 heroes whose super powers are to punch really hard.. *yawn* ).  I think failures like this, and DC's horrible movies  will eventually take the steam out of the theatres... and maybe they'll start hiring talent again for the books?  The problem with getting good talent on the books is that these publishers are notorious for not paying much, and with so many other higher paying avenues to pursue in the entertainment industry (film, games, etc...), good luck harvesting that talent.

Collectible books will probably always be sought after, but modern books aren't collectible, and they suck.

 

The thing that gets me is though is they have the money to pay these top creators,but they don't.

Let's do an example. Are these top creators going to create characters for Marvel/DC comics or video game companies who pay more?

 

[CheeseFrog]

Video game companies for sure... I've worked with a good handful, especially on Star Wars.  They have a ton of horror stories about the comics industry.

I think the root of the budgeting issue is the fact that Marvel is part of a publicly traded company, and therefor has quarterly reports that need to meet investor expectations.  An easy way to skew numbers in their favor (temporarily) is to keep overhead low.

 

edit

 

...and by the way, most of these folks are not 'top creators.'  They're people that can't find that kind of creative employment anywhere else.  Top creators get paid well, but are usually only doing cover art or their own series.

 

 

Edited May 7, 2017 by CheeseFrog

[Mercury Man]

13 minutes ago, CheeseFrog said:

I recently grabbed an ASM 13 (vol 1), and it took me 30 minutes to get through it... was fantastic 

Isn't that funny?   I can read 4 Modern books in the time it typically takes to get through 1 Silver Age book.  Maybe I am just taking my time, enjoying the art, ads, and backgrounds of the old stuff.  There seems to be more dialogue, and thought put into the word bubbles back then, keeping in mind these were typically written for a younger audience.   Today's comic is more 1 or 2 lines of dialogue in a panel, more spread pages, and these books are typically written for a more mature audience.   

[Ken Aldred]

4 hours ago, Mercury Man said:

Isn't that funny?   I can read 4 Modern books in the time it typically takes to get through 1 Silver Age book.  Maybe I am just taking my time, enjoying the art, ads, and backgrounds of the old stuff.  There seems to be more dialogue, and thought put into the word bubbles back then, keeping in mind these were typically written for a younger audience.   Today's comic is more 1 or 2 lines of dialogue in a panel, more spread pages, and these books are typically written for a more mature audience.   

The book that sticks out in my mind as taking me forever to read, just poring over the often intricate artwork and the dialogue, is Batman vs Grendel 1 by Matt Wagner. Absolutely brilliant comic. Early 90s, but still before the trend towards increasing decompression and cinematic widescreen filler techniques.

Edited May 7, 2017 by Ken Aldred

[kav]

old vs new:

[Ken Aldred]

 

Here's some top, value-for-money reading material, Kav, from my all-time favourite comicbook company...

 

 

 

Edited May 7, 2017 by Ken Aldred

[Lazyboy]

7 hours ago, Mercury Man said:

On 2017-05-05 at 2:26 AM, Chuck Gower said:

An unheard of teen age superhero who was the star of his own book - a black superhero who was the star of his own book, a black superhero from Africa! - a black Captain Marvel - a team of mutants from all over the world - remember that one? Giant Size X-Men #1 that featured an African female, an Indian, a Canadian, an Irishman - was that Social Justice?

With the exception of Captain Marvel, those were all new characters that were created.    Not some cheap replacement behind the mask. 

Yes, except that Monica Rambeau was a new, unique character. The reason she used the name of an old character is the same reason She-Hulk and Spider-Woman were created: trademark, not diversity.

The X-Men revamp featured a mostly new team because the old team failed (whether that was the fault of the characters featured is a matter for debate). Marvel always believed the idea of a mutant team was good, but the original execution of the idea resulted in cancellation.

Luke Cage and the Black Panther didn't replace anybody, let alone get their own series while the major character they replaced didn't have one. I'm assuming the "unheard of teen age superhero who was the star of his own book" is Spider-Man, which means you're just wrong because AF 15 definitely exists and preceded ASM. Regardless, nobody here is complaining about the creation of unique characters, even if they're lame like Rage or Squirrel Girl.

 

 

 

[kav]

25 minutes ago, Ken Aldred said:

 

Here's some top, value-for-money reading material, Kav, from my all-time favourite comicbook company...

 

 

 

wow I want that

[Mercury Man]

1 hour ago, Lazyboy said:

nobody here is complaining about the creation of unique characters, even if they're lame like Rage or Squirrel Girl

Wrong, I am complaining about those two.  They suck out loud.  

Edited May 7, 2017 by Mercury Man

[Prince Namor]

10 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

Not just Marvel sales now,as it seems all comic sales took a big fall  in sales in April.

What could be the cause? 

Unlucky 13%: Comics Book Sales Take a Plunge in April.

http://www.newsarama.com/34374-unlucky-13-comics-book-sales-take-a-plunge-in-april.html

Marvel Comics's Secret Empire #0 and DC Comics's Batman #21 and The Flash #21 (the start of the four-part "The Button" crossover) couldn't stop April 2017's Direct Market comic book sales from falling over 13% versus last year, as signs continue to point to the industry being in the midst of its first sales decline in five years. 

Yep. Industry wide.