ComicLink Summer Featured Auction 2017 1 1

[Bronty]

48 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

 

To anyone who knows cars, Nissan GT-R vs. Lambo Gallardo is absolutely a fair and relevant comparison to two high-end pieces of OA.  I didn't pull that example out of my azz, it was an analogy originally published in a major car magazine (minus the OA reference of course)!  Don't have to only compare same car marques or covers from the same title by the same artist.   

The point is they are different markets and different eras.    If you want to compare a 60s muscle car worth X to a brand new sportscar worth X, to me that's a better comparison because it acknowledges the difference in era and fundamental makeup of the art.   We can agree to disagree.   Point is, car comparisons have little to do with the price of tea in... New York, or Stockholm.   You may be right, and I may be wrong, but it won't be because the UXM has a better drivetrain

Edited August 11, 2017 by Bronty

[delekkerste]

10 minutes ago, rocket1312 said:

Remember that #275 is also a gatefold.  While the image itself isn't as memorable as #268, I would think the size alone would push it over.  I do agree that #274 probably wouldn't surpass #268, but I put them both in the upper tier of Lee/Williams X-Men and about even in terms of recognition factor.  No Wolverine is a minus, but Magneto/Rogue might make up for that.  I know I like the #274 cover better, but that doesn't mean much.   All things being equal, I'd take the X-Men #3 cover over all of them, but that's purely a nostalgia thing on my part.

I guess I just don't think the image is as strong or memorable on the #275 to warrant the kind of price #268 would fetch, even if it is a wraparound.  I love X-Men #3 as well, but, it's a cover that you have to look up if someone mentions it - even though it's a fantastic example, it just not as iconic and doesn't have the same level of instantaneous recall that the #268 does.

 

10 minutes ago, Bronty said:

(please don't light the torches I get people like it and that's fine I'll just never be a huge fan of it or understand paying even 20% of the number being tossed around).

 

Edited August 11, 2017 by delekkerste

[delekkerste]

2 minutes ago, Bronty said:

 Point is, car comparisons have little to do with the price of tea in... New York, or Stockholm.

But how about comparing New York vs. Stockholm?  

[Bronty]

Just now, delekkerste said:

But how about comparing New York vs. Stockholm?  

Not bad!

[Bronty]

1 hour ago, stinkininkin said:

Interesting, but I threw up in my mouth a little bit.  I remember selling the Xmen 268 cover for $650.  

Scott

that sucks Scott, sorry    That was probably a pretty good price then and I guess you just have to be pragmatic - the partnership with Jim worked out well for you overall and if there was a mistake or two made along the way in selling things, well, such is life.     You have always been "in the market" so whether you could have gotten better returns or whatever - well, at least it all worked out well overall.      Best to just let it go.     I'm sure you've done a lot better by the sale of your originals than most    And, I suppose the silver lining is that if Gene's valuation is correct, and I have no reason to doubt it  then when that sells one day, it will be a big deal and it certainly won't hurt the market for your other originals!

Edited August 11, 2017 by Bronty

[BCarter27]

I don't know who this Kirby guy is but Gambit vs X-23 is the real showdown! Gen X vs Millennials... discuss!

[delekkerste]

3 minutes ago, BCarter27 said:

I don't know who this Kirby guy is but Gambit vs X-23 is the real showdown! Gen X vs Millennials... discuss!

Jack Kirby?

[stinkininkin]

28 minutes ago, Bronty said:

that sucks Scott, sorry    That was probably a pretty good price then and I guess you just have to be pragmatic - the partnership with Jim worked out well for you overall and if there was a mistake or two made along the way in selling things, well, such is life.     You have always been "in the market" so whether you could have gotten better returns or whatever - well, at least it all worked out well overall.      Best to just let it go.     I'm sure you've done a lot better by the sale of your originals than most    And, I suppose the silver lining is that if Gene's valuation is correct, and I have no reason to doubt it  then when that sells one day, it will be a big deal and it certainly won't hurt the market for your other originals!

Thanks Bronty, but I was mostly kidding--I made that UXM 268 sale 25 years ago and have long ago moved on.  Life is too short for those kinds of regrets and as you said, I've done quite well over all so there really is nothing for me to complain about, and quite the opposite really.  It's also the nature of the hobby.  Show me one person who's been at this for any length of time  who has not made "mistakes" and I'll show you a unicorn.

Scott

[chrisco37]

Personally, I love the FF 77 cover and think it's a great (not the best) example of prime cosmic Kirby/Sinnott.  I have a bit of a soft spot as that book is from my 2nd favorite FF arc of all.  I'm not typically a fan of "panel" covers (for instance, I think FF17 is horrible!), but this has everything as far as I'm concerned.  You get the FF (+Crystal), Surfer, Galactus, some Kirby "crackle" and machinery, some heavy Sinnott inks.  It checks all boxes for me.  I certainly think it's superior to 76. 

For Galactus + Surfer covers, I'd rank them:

49

74

77

75

[Andahaion]

2 hours ago, Hekla said:

Comiclink has to feel good. On the day of the Summer HA auction, the biggest CGC OA discussion is about an auction that doesn't start for another 19 days.

 

... or this is a good diversion tactic by some board members to keep attention away from the current auction

Didn't distract from what I wanted.  Hush page for $10K.  Yowza.  Uh, guess I'll find another Lee story to purchase from or something.  

[Bronty]

1 hour ago, stinkininkin said:

Thanks Bronty, but I was mostly kidding--I made that UXM 268 sale 25 years ago and have long ago moved on.  Life is too short for those kinds of regrets and as you said, I've done quite well over all so there really is nothing for me to complain about, and quite the opposite really.  It's also the nature of the hobby.  Show me one person who's been at this for any length of time  who has not made "mistakes" and I'll show you a unicorn.

Scott

[batman_fan]

5 hours ago, delekkerste said:

I had hoped that my post would generate some good debate, and I'm not disappointed.  

That said, I perhaps (intentionally) stacked the deck against the UXM #266 by taking money out of the picture.  In the real world, of course, I think most would agree that the FF #77 cover would be worth more.  I would estimate on the order of $50K more, but, it could easily be $60-75K (of course, if some here are to be believed, the FF cover should be worth $100-$200K+ MOARRRRRR!!!)  Would anybody's answer change if the question was, would you rather have the UXM #266 cover plus $50K-75K cash or the FF #77?  You could, of course, spend the $50-75K on any other art of your choosing if you so decided...

A few other comments:

Yeah, of course I get it's Andy Kubert vs. Jack Kirby.  But, then again, you can pretty much throw out the artist when it comes to key/classic/memorable pieces.  The fact that Herb Trimpe drew the Hulk #180 last page and Hulk #181 cover and interiors isn't going to devalue those pages one iota, nor not make the #181 cover (assuming it's out there) one of the very most valuable pieces of comic art in existence.  Most people here would probably not self-identify as Rob Liefeld fans, but most of us would recognize that the New Mutants #98 (or #87) cover is an important and valuable piece of comic art.  IMO, my recently acquired ASM #98 cover would not be worth any more had it been drawn by Romita instead of Kane - classic is as classic does.  Speaking of which, I'm a little shocked at how cavalierly people are putting values on this FF #77 cover that are in excess of the classic ASM #98.  Or, if #98 is not your cuppa, then how about the ASM #68, 69, 70, 75, 90, 97 or 101 covers?  Or the 1st MJ page?  Or a twice-up Kirby Thor or Cap cover?  Heck, some people here have the FF #77 near/at/over what the ASM #121 cover would probably fetch now, as well as a number of Ditko ASM splashes and Romita twice-up ASM covers.  

I also get the sentiment about being thrilled to own *ANY* Kirby FF cover (I might add that the FF #92 cover sold for not that much - mid 5 figures? - at CLink not that long ago, which was within reach for a number of collectors who might not have been otherwise willing or able to spend $150-$200K+ for an example).  I feel similarly about the Byrne X-Men run - given prices/rarity, if I ever do get an example, it will most likely be a middle of the pack example.  Which would still be awesome!  That said, I considered making (separate) cash/trade offers for both a mid-pack Byrne UXM cover, as well as a mid-pack Miller DD cover, using one or the other of my best in class pieces plus (or minus/receiving) cash as a makeweight (yes, that's all intentionally vague).  In the end, though, I just couldn't do it, even though Byrne UXM and Miller DD are both at or near the top of my all-time favorite runs.  If you have something unimproveable, it's tough to step down to something that isn't, even if it is a nice cover from a more prestigious run and/or artist.  I mean, sure, if we were talking about one of the top 5 or 6 Miller DD covers or top 10 Byrne UXM covers, it would have been an interesting discussion, but, not for examples squarely in the middle of the pack. 

Count me among those not keen on the "stitched together" look of the FF #77.  I'm generally not a fan of multi-scene covers and think that there is a valuation penalty in the marketplace for them (one famous example being the much-unloved ASM #155 cover, which bounced around from collection to collection like a red-headed stepchild in the 2000s...apologies in advance to any gingers out there).  The multiple vignettes and the oversized image of Psycho Man in the center result in everything else being quite small/cramped...not my cup of tea.  The big draw here is of course Galactus and the Surfer, without which I think the cover would be more like $125K-ish.  But, for the consignor's sake (whose identity I don't know), I hope that he finds two people who "have to have" a Kirby FF cover with Surfer and Galactus and that it goes for  money!  Good luck!!  

I think a better poll would be

FF cover

Xmen cover + 50k

$250k

which would you take?  For me it is easy, $250k

[Bronty]

32 minutes ago, batman_fan said:

I think a better poll would be

FF cover

Xmen cover + 50k

$250k

which would you take?  For me it is easy, $250k

Its easy for me too, 250k, but I think you'd get 99% of the respondents agree with you.    Need something a little more 50/50.   

Throw in some supermodel underwear, or something.

Edited August 11, 2017 by Bronty

[Bronty]

1 hour ago, chrisco37 said:

Personally, I love the FF 77 cover and think it's a great (not the best) example of prime cosmic Kirby/Sinnott.  I have a bit of a soft spot as that book is from my 2nd favorite FF arc of all.  I'm not typically a fan of "panel" covers (for instance, I think FF17 is horrible!), but this has everything as far as I'm concerned.  You get the FF (+Crystal), Surfer, Galactus, some Kirby "crackle" and machinery, some heavy Sinnott inks.  It checks all boxes for me.  I certainly think it's superior to 76. 

For Galactus + Surfer covers, I'd rank them:

49

74

77

75

Oh wow, yeah, 75 blows hard now that I look at it!  I agree completely with your rankings.  Floating heads!

Edited August 11, 2017 by Bronty

[Flambit]

I thought a lot about the blue chip mid-pack vs best in class.  My knee jerk reaction is that I would always take a blue chip mid pack and the current example for me is no contest: I have long coveted a Kirby FF cover and I have zero interest whatsoever in 90's X-Men (no slam against 90's X-Men, I just have no attachment to them in any way).  Even if the FF cover went for 20-30k less, I'd be thrilled with it.

But then I think in terms of my own wheelhouse: would I take, say, the Alpha Flight #1 cover over a mid-pack Byrne FF cover?  At one point, AF covers were pretty cheap.  I'd be getting Austin inks and that whole cast of characters, vs probably not an Austin FF cover.  I can't even begin to guess what the AF 1 cover is worth now, but I know there was a terrific Byrne FF cover with the Inhumans that was only 40k on Heritage recently.  So I guess the AF cover wins - but is it a best in class, or is it just an insanely valuable cover you'd be nuts to pass on vs. a Byrne FF cover?

Or: would I take a Byrne FF cover over the very best Kirby post New Gods work, but ruling out some of the huge examples like some of his great post 70's FF covers (I'd take FF 200 in a heartbeat) or Cap 193 because of their inherent value now... Say it was Machine Man 1, Omac 1, the Demon 1, Sandman 1, maybe even Kamandi 1 (but that's a pretty iconic cover now).  I almost included Black Panther 1, but I think even that one is a bit too iconic at this point for Byrne FF covers to compete. 

That's a hard one.  

At one point I would have said these were worth far less than a Byrne FF cover, but now, probably more.  It would really start to depend on what FF cover, and I'd probably have to go with one of the Kirby ones

I guess it really comes down to personal preference and how fueled you are by nostalgia.  That's the problem with this game, even things that seem equal, really aren't equal when you look closely at them.  

[Bronty]

More than anything it depends on the specific examples you choose to compare.    The best Byrne AF cover (#1) OK yeah, I can see it.    The best Byrne Namor cover, not so much.

[Flambit]

1 hour ago, Bronty said:

More than anything it depends on the specific examples you choose to compare.    The best Byrne AF cover (#1) OK yeah, I can see it.    The best Byrne Namor cover, not so much.

For sure.  Yeah I wouldn't include anything Byrne after his jump to DC/Superman - maybe his first Action Comics (which we all know just went for 25k) and Superman 1 cover if you want - but I'd still go with the AF 1 cover.  Even as much as I love and want a WCA cover, it's not in the same class.  But I'd take a WCA cover over the most awesome Strawberry Shortcake cover!

This is something I've considered for a while.  I have a couple of definitely mid-to-low pack examples from a well known run, and I have grappled with trading them off at one time or another.  But what would that cost me?  A better example would cost a ton of money plus my current example - for the same artist from the same run - so I sit on it.  But trading them for something "lesser," but in a different class?  Well, then I no longer have a piece of a well known run (that I loved).  

[MyNameIsLegion]

X-Men #268 is far superior to #266 in most every aspect. For one, aside from the first Gambit appearance, the interiors are forgettable, as is the story. This was the tail end of Claremont's meandering post Seige Perilous story-line that wandered far too long and was plague by a series of fill ins once Silvestri left. #267 was a better book for the Portacio/Lee art, and I often mistake it for Gambit's 1st appearance in my mind. But #268 is a modern classic - cover and interiors, and had a greater impact on the Wolverine (and Widow) mythos. 

the real problem with valuation of the #266 OA is that the OA market still hasn't hit a ceiling, but Gambit's popularity peaked almost 20 years ago. You have to discount the first app of a once hot character that has since cooled off considerably. 

Going back to Gene's discussion of Byrne X-men covers- if you really look, there's more mediocre ones than you realize. I think Cockrum's covers were stronger as a whole.

[glendgold]

On 8/10/2017 at 3:58 PM, PhilipB2k17 said:

It's in the subtext of the Heroes donation blurb. 

You sure? 

[John E.]

If I were in it to win it then I'd gun for X-Men #266 over the FF #77 because it's in my nostalgic wheelhouse. If I was the owner of the XM266 and someone wanted to trade me for the FF77, I'd probably do it. If I were the owner of the FF77 and someone wanted to trade me for the XM266, I wouldn't. That must mean something.