Amazon's THE LORD OF THE RINGS: THE RINGS OF POWER (2022) 5 5

[Dr. Love]

Female Orcs?  umm ok, I understand that while it's not exactly canon, it's not not-canon either.  One big Orc tent, then!   

But getting behind the plight of the downtrodden Orcs - hey they have names and hearts too you know!  - now that is a stretch, for me.

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free".  

Free the Orcs!  A home at last they can call their own, and a human in every pot!

 

Edited October 1, 2022 by Dr. Love

[Bosco685]

At this point with The Rings of Power we are still in The Second Age. So we have many years of stories that may be told.

What You Need to Know Before Seeing ‘The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power’

Quote

The Rings of Power begins long before the likes of Frodo, Sam, and Aragorn were even a figment of the universe’s imagination. It’s the dawn of the Second Age: A dark power is slumbering, but not for long. Here’s everything you need to know:

 

What year is it?
If you’re familiar with The Lord of the Rings, you know that the Fellowship’s journey to destroy Sauron’s One Ring in the fires of Mount Doom took place in something called the “Third Age.” Middle Earth has been around for a very long time, and its people—elves, dwarves, hobbits, men, etc.—are very diligent at keeping track of current events. The history of Middle Earth is separated into a number of ages, each made up of some thousands of years, and each ending with some near-catastrophic world-changing event.

 

The First Age begins with the awakening of the elves on Arda (the name of the planet that Middle Earth, the central-most continent, exists on) and ends with the “Great Battle,” during which Morgoth, the world’s first Dark Lord, was overthrown by an alliance of elves, men, and immortal gods called the Valar. These events are chronicled in The Silmarillion, Tolkien’s contextual companion to The Lord of the Rings, finished and published posthumously by his son, Christopher. The Second Age picks up right afterward, when Middle Earth is putting itself back together and Sauron, Morgoth’s feared lieutenant, tricks the elves into forging their rings of power, binding them with his secret One Ring. The One Ring would control the other bands and their bearers, bringing them under the sway of Sauron, previously the most cunning and powerful of Morgoth’s servants.

 

In response, the elves and men form their so-called “Last Alliance,” and the Second Age concludes with a climactic battle that destroys Sauron’s physical form (but, critically, not his spirit), the key events of which you see depicted in the prologue of The Fellowship of the Ring film.

 

The Third Age begins right afterward, charting the downfall of the human king Isildur and the rise of general unrest in Middle Earth. Almost three thousand years after the One Ring was lost in some nondescript riverbed, the artifact is discovered by a hobbit named Déagol—Sméagol’s cousin—accelerating the events that lead to the formation of the Fellowship and, finally, the destruction of the ring. So begins the Fourth Age, which starts after the end of The Lord of the Rings. It is an age of peacetime, the Age of Men, when the dominion of the other races across Middle Earth came to an end.

 

[Beige]

I think people just need to accept that the show runner took parts from Tolkein that they thought they could use to make a watchable show.

 

It's not as written.

 

Timelines have changed.

 

In 6 episodes we have seen the birth of Mt Doom and the realm of Mordor.

The origin of Mythrir.

The flood that will end the Dwarves..

That Shadowfax is immortal.

The beginning of the age of men.

The origin of Sauroman or Gandalf.

The half-foots becoming Hobbits

 

I think we have only seen 2 of the Kings of Men so far - 7 to go.

 

I still don't understand 50% of it - but it has 4 1/2 seasons to go, and at the end - all the Kings of Men, Elven-folk and Dwarves will be revealed.

 

And I'm loving the ride so far.

 

 

[Bosco685]

I need to go back and watch this. 

[BuscemasAvengers]

On 10/2/2022 at 7:51 AM, Bosco685 said:

I need to go back and watch this. 

To me, it's remarkable how close Jackson's 'Fellowship' mirrors the Bakshi film.

[sfcityduck]

On 10/1/2022 at 10:42 AM, drotto said:

Along with the fact that a water source would not be enough to trigger an eruption like that. Or that a random broken sword, that just happens to get found, would fit in slot in a wall, that just happens to be in the fort they were hiding in.  That somehow just behind a bit of overgrowth, but yet ignored for hundreds of years.  I would much prefer if they had actually shown Sauron or his minions setting this up (yes I know they were digging tunnels, was never hinted at at the purpose), figuring out what the hilt was.  Show the audience the scheming, show us the planning, show us the why.  All this is essentially skipped, so the ultimate reveal while momentarily shocking, ultimately rings hollow and feels unearned. it feels like they know they needed a big moment, so they just said this will happen here.

 

I know many of you liked this episode and like this show, but it is a series of happenstances like this, that are never developed, never hinted at other than being a generic mystery box, that drive me absolutely nuts.  I bothers me that the timelines make no sense at all.  It bothers me that characters seem to teleport because the writers needed them for the next event, with no sense on the time or journey needed to get them there. Just we need Galadriel's army at the siege, just in the nick of time, so they will just be there, be damned if this would have taken weeks or months of travel. I hate that remotely realistic logistics are completely ignored. There is no way 500 people horses, armor, gear and supplies would fit on those 3 ships (unless they work like the Tardis). Or how 500 soldiers would have a chance against the many thousands of orcs shows previously. That the villagers would leave a village because it was not defendable (lets forget to take food when we flee also), to a logical fortified position, and leave it for the place they said was not defendable. That a tower that stood for hundreds if not thousands of years was held up by one rope (if they were shown weakening the tower this would have been ok).  I hated that GoT degenerated into many of the same types of things over its last 2 or 3 seasons, and I do not like it here either. I am just disappointed.

 

Ok, I have vented, continue your enjoyment.

Dude, your hatred of RoP is more than a little weird.

The science on the eruption has been validated by geologists in numerous articles on the internet right now: "“VIOLENT VOLCANIC ERUPTIONS OCCUR IN LARGE PART BECAUSE WATER IS INVOLVED. THE WATER IS DISSOLVED IN THE MAGMA. THE MAGMA RISES TO THE SURFACES, THE WATER MAKES BUBBLES THAT CAN TURN TO STEAM AND THE STEAM AND WATER EXPAND SO RAPIDLY THAT THEY BASICALLY BLOW THE MAGMA APART. THAT STUFF PILES UP NEAR A CENTRAL VENT AND THAT’S WHAT MAKES BIG VOLCANOES." - Jeffrey Carson, a professor of Earth and Environmental Sciences at Syracuse University, whose area of expertise is volcanic activity.

The broken sword was not random, it has been a major driver of the plot. It did not "just happens to be in the fort they were in hiding in," it has been in the possession of characters and traveled from location to location. And, yes, we saw lots of digging going on and it was left as a surprise as to why.  Which is certainly one normal way to tell a story. I don't share your opinion on earned or unearned. 

The battle in this episode was very similar to the movie battles. And as far as overcoming long odds, I'd suggest you brush up on history such as the Battle of Agincourt in which an army of 12,000 Englishman defeated a French Army of four or five times their size. That battle is also telling on the logistics as the English fleet of less than 1,500 ships transported over 12,000 men and 20,000 horses. 

As for timelines, the show is eliminating the down time of travel. Undoubtedly many of the events we are seeing are spread out over weeks or months - we saw that passage of time in the "migration map" scene for example - but they have made the creative choice to assume the audience knows that and that they don't need to document every step. 

Ultimately, every show depends upon some degree of suspension of disbelief.  If this show doesn't do that for you, I get it. I felt the same way about GOT as a book (and never could make it to the tv show it was a non-starter for me). 

Edited October 2, 2022 by sfcityduck

[drotto]

On 10/2/2022 at 10:51 AM, sfcityduck said:

Dude, your hatred of RoP is more than a little weird.

The science on the eruption has been validated by geologists in numerous articles on the internet right now: "“VIOLENT VOLCANIC ERUPTIONS OCCUR IN LARGE PART BECAUSE WATER IS INVOLVED. THE WATER IS DISSOLVED IN THE MAGMA. THE MAGMA RISES TO THE SURFACES, THE WATER MAKES BUBBLES THAT CAN TURN TO STEAM AND THE STEAM AND WATER EXPAND SO RAPIDLY THAT THEY BASICALLY BLOW THE MAGMA APART. THAT STUFF PILES UP NEAR A CENTRAL VENT AND THAT’S WHAT MAKES BIG VOLCANOES." - Jeffrey Carson, a professor of Earth and Environmental Sciences at Syracuse University, whose area of expertise is volcanic activity.

The broken sword was not random, it has been a major driver of the plot. It did not "just happens to be in the fort they were in hiding in," it has been in the possession of characters and traveled from location to location. And, yes, we saw lots of digging going on and it was left as a surprise as to why.  Which is certainly one normal way to tell a story. I don't share your opinion on earned or unearned. 

The battle in this episode was very similar to the movie battles. And as far as overcoming long odds, I'd suggest you brush up on history such as the Battle of Agincourt in which an army of 12,000 Englishman defeated a French Army of four or five times their size. That battle is also telling on the logistics as the English fleet of less than 1,500 ships transported over 12,000 men and 20,000 horses. 

As for timelines, the show is eliminating the down time of travel. Undoubtedly many of the events we are seeing are spread out over weeks or months - we saw that passage of time in the "migration map" scene for example - but they have made the creative choice to assume the audience knows that and that they don't need to document every step. 

Ultimately, every show depends upon some degree of suspension of disbelief.  If this show doesn't do that for you, I get it. I felt the same way about GOT as a book (and never could make it to the tv show it was a non-starter for me). 

The original trilogy is my favorite movie trilogy of all time.  I loved the books, but am not a Tolkien scholar. That makes this the biggest disappointment to me of anything in recent memory.  All of this stems from that disappointment, I desperately wanted this to be good. I could also say you seem desperate to defend this show. Hope we can reach at least an understanding.

 

Yes, I think the writing here is beyond bad, it completely ruins my ability to immerse myself in the show.  The show looks good, but I have not found a single character or storyline as presented to latch onto.  In order for me to love a show or movie a few things must happen, so this is admittingly 100% my opinion.

 

1. A character I find interesting, complex, that is well acted, and I care about their story. I do not care about a single one of these characters at this point. That charcter does not need to be likable. 

2. I fully understand that some suspension of disbelief is required for any property.  But for that disbelief, the writers need to do something to establish their rules for their world. I could except the ships, if they gave me some reason that they work.  I could believe 500 soldiers winning if they showed me they were exceptional fighters, or had added powers.  That was never shown till the battle.

3. I find the stories paint by numbers fantasy, there is nothing here that redefines what the genre can be.  I am not inherently a fantasy fan, I lean much more Sci-Fi and Superhero, despite TLOTR being m pretty much may favorite movies.  So for shows to really get me, they need to push the envelope ( at least for me) a bit. I also consider the Hobbit movies a massive disappointment. 

4. The best entertainment for me is ultimately character driven, that is what keeps me engaged long term, otherwise it becomes string of random events. This is event driven, and they have failed to establish the grand scope they are aiming for, and the characters are just along for the ride. I do not care about the events since they are milestones, ultimate it is how that event affects and/or changes the character.

5. Good dialog.  This can be genre specific and appropriate.  I do not expect a medieval warrior to talk the same as a cosmic politician.   But is needs to be sharp, it needs to convey appropriate emotions and fit the story.  So much of the dialog here is generic platitudes.

 

So you understand where I am coming from what is personally my favorite TV shows of all time (will keep it to serialized drama side of things).

The Expanse

Buffy the Vampire Slayer

Game of Thrones (seasons 1 to 5)

Dexter (seasons 1 to 4)

Breaking Bad

Farscape

Firefly

Yellowstone

The Boys

Six Feet Under

 

Edited October 2, 2022 by drotto

[sfcityduck]

On 10/2/2022 at 4:09 PM, drotto said:

The original trilogy is my favorite movie trilogy of all time.  I loved the books, but am not a Tolkien scholar. That makes this the biggest disappointment to me of anything in recent memory.  All of this stems from that disappointment, I desperately wanted this to be good. I could also say you seem desperate to defend this show. Hope we can reach at least an understanding.

 

Yes, I think the writing here is beyond bad, it completely ruins my ability to immerse myself in the show.  The show looks good, but I have not found a single character or storyline as presented to latch onto.  In order for me to love a show or movie a few things must happen, so this is admittingly 100% my opinion.

 

1. A character I find interesting, complex, that is well acted, and I care about their story. I do not care about a single one of these characters at this point. That charcter does not need to be likable. 

2. I fully understand that some suspension of disbelief is required for any property.  But for that disbelief, the writers need to do something to establish their rules for their world. I could except the ships, if they gave me some reason that they work.  I could believe 500 soldiers winning if they showed me they were exceptional fighters, or had added powers.  That was never shown till the battle.

3. I find the stories paint by numbers fantasy, there is nothing here that redefines what the genre can be.  I am not inherently a fantasy fan, I lean much more Sci-Fi and Superhero, despite TLOTR being m pretty much may favorite movies.  So for shows to really get me, they need to push the envelope ( at least for me) a bit. I also consider the Hobbit movies a massive disappointment. 

4. The best entertainment for me is ultimately character driven, that is what keeps me engaged long term, otherwise it becomes string of random events. This is event driven, and they have failed to establish the grand scope they are aiming for, and the characters are just along for the ride. I do not care about the events since they are milestones, ultimate it is how that event affects and/or changes the character.

5. Good dialog.  This can be genre specific and appropriate.  I do not expect a medieval warrior to talk the same as a cosmic politician.   But is needs to be sharp, it needs to convey appropriate emotions and fit the story.  So much of the dialog here is generic platitudes.

 

So you understand where I am coming from what is personally my favorite TV shows of all time (will keep it to serialized drama side of things).

The Expanse

Buffy the Vampire Slayer

Game of Thrones (seasons 1 to 5)

Dexter (seasons 1 to 4)

Breaking Bad

Farscape

Firefly

Yellowstone

The Boys

Six Feet Under

 

Nothing wrong with disagreement and spirited discussion. We all get to have our own opinions - it’s just some are more well-founded than others LOL!

The Expanse is a brilliant book series. Have not been tempted to watch the show. 
In my view the Buffy musical episode was one of the greatest and most daring ever!

GoT is the single worst fantasy series I ever read - I gave up partway through book 3 because the author clearly had no idea where he was going - and I guess that is borne out by the fact he has not finished.  My son enjoyed the tv series until the end where he thought it all fell apart which I guess is a not uncommon reaction.

I loved wheel of Time at the start - but it dragged and the author died and it ended with a whimper. Can’t bring myself to check it out on tv.

I never really gave Firefly or farscape a look - working too much. 
 

For me, Avatar Airbender may be the greatest carton ever made. I enjoy all things Star Wars (and most things Star Trek but the quant is a little too high and similar).

I trend towards escapism and don’t need major doses of depressing stories in my life - sorry Breaking Bad is likely fantastic I just had no interest.

Welcome to Wrexham is worth checking out, and not just for the celeb connections.

There’s a lot to life.  No need to waste time thinking about things you do not enjoy.  My advice walk away from RoP if it brings you no joy.  That’s my reaction to GoT despite a few good actors.

 

 

 

 

[Beige]

On 10/3/2022 at 3:44 PM, sfcityduck said:

 

The Expanse is a brilliant book series. Have not been tempted to watch the show. 
 

 

 

Don't.

It will destroy your soul to see what they have done to the wonderful written series.

 

The TV show was a complete abomination leaving out 60% of the books.

In the show,they didn't even go through the rings to hardly any 'new colonies'.

No ghostships. No Emperor Duarte.

 

Totally **** tbh

Edited October 3, 2022 by Beige

[Bosco685]

Quote

It’s official: Amazon’s The Rings of Power has started filming its next season. Production got underway on Monday at the new hub at Bray Studios just outside London.

 

The news follows the first official Nielsen ratings being released Thursday for the Prime Video series, showing The Rings of Power topped the streaming charts for its debut week with 1.3 billion minutes viewed (likely an Amazon series record given that only two hours were released). The first season of the show was filmed in New Zealand over an epic stretch of 18 months during the pandemic. For season 2, which will consist of eight episodes, Amazon switched the show’s production to the U.K., which is considered more economical and is also where the company is establishing a multi-show hub.

 

[jsilverjanet]

Not sure what the first 22 pages are about, but finally watched this over the weekend (all caught up) and absolutely love it

 

[Bosco685]

On 10/3/2022 at 6:57 PM, jsilverjanet said:

Not sure what the first 22 pages are about, but finally watched this over the weekend (all caught up) and absolutely love it

 

When I see a rare few that go from thread to thread posting "Yup - this sucks too" I kind of wonder what level of discontent have some achieved in life.

[The Commissioner]

On 10/3/2022 at 5:57 PM, jsilverjanet said:

Not sure what the first 22 pages are about, but finally watched this over the weekend (all caught up) and absolutely love it

 

Glad to see another fan here!  I think it is a great show so far.  Hope you continue to enjoy it!

[The Commissioner]

On 10/2/2022 at 6:51 AM, Bosco685 said:

I need to go back and watch this. 

I would have loved for them to make the full trilogy

[kimik]

Watched episode 6 with my son last night, and he thinks the Stranger is Tom Bombadil based on the magic he used on the wolves being similar to what he does in the video game. Time will tell, I guess. 

And, despite my quibbles with the whole eruption/pyroclastic cloud scene, I am really enjoying the show (even the first two episodes that were slowly setting the stage). The main reason is seeing everything build up to the ending that we know is coming, and also to see Numenor/Atlantis in action before the cataclysm.

Edited October 4, 2022 by kimik

[The Commissioner]

Throwing out my first Sauron theory here.

Spoiler

I think that Halbrand might be Sauron.  In the previous episode, Adar told Galadriel that he killed Sauron, then when Halbrand ran into Adar in the woods, he asked him if he knew who he was, then almost killed him when he said "no".  We know that Sauron is a shapeshifter and a master deceiver according to Tolkien, so I'm wondering if Sauron took the form of the heir of the Southlands.

Plus, Numenor gets destroyed when Sauron tricks the Numenorians into attacking Valinor, and Halbrand is already with the Numenorians..... 

 

[Bosco685]

Quote

VARIETY: “Rings of Power” uses Tolkien’s work as a foundation, but there’s a lot of material that’s not from the “LOTR” canon. How did you set the tone for that material?

 

SALKE: There’s so much darkness in the world. Leaning into light was the other thing that was really appealing to everybody — bringing something to our global customer base that is hopeful and has light and that a family can watch. So many people have grown up with this literature, and we wanted this series to pay it forward for new generations of Tolkien lovers. The line we’ve been using is “If you’re old enough to read the books, you’re old enough to watch the show.” We knew from the beginning that this was not our “Game of Thrones.” In fact, the fans spoke up from the minute the deal was closed, saying, “Please don’t try to insert sex and a level of provocative violence,” things that don’t feel true to the stories that Tolkien wanted to tell.

 

[Bosco685]

On 10/4/2022 at 10:34 AM, The Commissioner said:

Throwing out my first Sauron theory here.

  Hide contents

I think that Halbrand might be Sauron.  In the previous episode, Adar told Galadriel that he killed Sauron, then when Halbrand ran into Adar in the woods, he asked him if he knew who he was, then almost killed him when he said "no".  We know that Sauron is a shapeshifter and a master deceiver according to Tolkien, so I'm wondering if Sauron took the form of the heir of the Southlands.

Plus, Numenor gets destroyed when Sauron tricks the Numenorians into attacking Valinor, and Halbrand is already with the Numenorians..... 

 

There are many theories now pointing to this very thinking. And I am right there with you.

Spoiler

Why Rings of Power Fans Are Convinced That Halbrand Is Actually Sauron

After Adar's defeat and the incredibly real eruption of Mount Doom, the series has to be nearing the official emergence of Sauron. The thing is, Sauron is known for his shapeshifting abilities and may have already covertly appeared. Several characters could fit the bill as an undercover Sauron, but after Episode 6, "Udûn," fans are pretty convinced that Halbrand is the Dark Lord.

Even though the arguments for Meteor Man being Sauron are strong, a lot of fans have started to believe that Halbrand is Sauron. As an original character, some fans initially predicted that he could be a form of Sauron -- and it didn't take long for those theories to find some backing. For the longest time, Halbrand conspicuously kept his identity (which could still be a lie) a secret. And the idea that Galadriel couldn't find Sauron because she was talking to his undercover self would have made Sauron into an absolute troll. More concretely, Halbrand showed that he was a master smith in Númenor, which was one of Sauron's calling cards.

He just seems so accepted by everyone for no other reason than he is the role they threw him into, it feels like there is some undertone darker story.

[Bosco685]

[sfcityduck]

I think Halbrand is likely a bit of misdirection.  Sauron has to influence the Elves to forge the rings before he subverts the men of Numenor to sail West.  And as far as we can tell, Halbrand has been nowhere near the elves.  All we do know is that he can forge a sword. If he heads off to hang out with Elven craftsman, sure, I'll buy that. But right now he just seems too obvious a candidate. As far as we know, the rings of power are not even being forged yet.

Some folk think that the stranger is Tom Bombadil which makes zero sense. Not sure why they think RoP would use a character that LOTR famously omitted. If it is not Gandalf, I'll be shocked.

And everyone should keep in mind that there were a lot of Balrogs in Middle Earth.  

I dunno, I think that Halbrand and Galadriel's little moment was not about romance - it seemed to be about evil. Both Galadriel and Halbrand were struggling with the evil inside of them. Both had to be restrained from murdering Adar. 

I think this show likes misdirection.

I did like the reveal about Adar being one of the stolen Elves who were corrupted into or who did the corrupting of Elves to create Orcs. That is LOTR canon (such as it exists). 

I think this story is doing exactly what JRR wanted to happen with his story - they have taken up sketches of bits and pieces and are fleshing them out.  I am enjoying it immensely.