BLACK WIDOW: THE MOVIE (TBD) 4 4

[@therealsilvermane]

2 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

At least you know you're a clown. And by the way, that $55M budgeted film made more revenue than any comic book film ever did.

'Investor'

Even with that, too bad Joker still couldn't help pull DC's head out of its rear end. Maybe Warner Bro-hams should consider a JCU (Joker Cinematic Universe) because that's about all DC is good for, Joker movies.

[Bosco685]

3 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Even with that, too bad Joker still couldn't help pull DC's head out of its rear end. Maybe Warner Bro-hams should consider a JCU (Joker Cinematic Universe) because that's about all DC is good for, Joker movies.

Joker movies? How many of these were made that you saw from the MCU glasses you see the world through?

[@therealsilvermane]

1 hour ago, Bosco685 said:

Joker movies? How many of these were made that you saw from the MCU glasses you see the world through?

Generally, the only thing DC makes that's worth a darn is a movie with Joker in it, except Suicide Squad. Jeopardy answer: The only really good Burton era Batflick (or at the least the one that didn't short-term torpedo the careers of the creatives involved) What is 1989 Batman featuring Joker? Another Jeopardy answer: The only DC movie in the Top 20 All-Time U.S. Domestic Box Office Gross. What is The Dark Knight featuring Joker? Then there's The Joker, of course. Heck even the only decent DC Snyder flick IMO was the one with Joker in the end credits.

Edited April 6, 2021 by @therealsilvermane

[Bosco685]

8 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Generally, the only thing DC makes that's worth a darn is a movie with Joker in it, except Suicide Squad. Jeopardy answer: The only really good Burton era Batflick (or at the least the one that didn't short-term torpedo the careers of the creatives involved) What is 1989 Batman featuring Joker? Another Jeopardy answer: The only DC movie in the Top 20 All-Time U.S. Domestic Box Office Gross. What is The Dark Knight Returns featuring Joker? Then there's The Joker, of course. Heck even the only decent DC Snyder flick IMO was the one with Joker in the end credits.

[@therealsilvermane]

1 hour ago, Bosco685 said:

1 hour ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Expand  

At least you know you're a clown.

Yeah, a clown who does the Joker dance every time I sell yet another Marvel Silver Age key for like 5 times or more what I paid for it because Marvel is a better investment than gold.

[▫️]

17 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Yeah, a clown who does the Joker dance every time I sell yet another Marvel Silver Age key for like 5 times or more what I paid for it because Marvel is a better investment than gold.

You’re right, certain Marvel keys are better investments than gold. I have invested in both. 
Meanwhile, DC owns the top spots for most valuable comics ever printed. And highest price ever paid. 

[Bosco685]

22 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Yeah, a clown who does the Joker dance every time I sell yet another Marvel Silver Age key for like 5 times or more what I paid for it because Marvel is a better investment than gold.

"Investor"

You make yourself look worse each time you play this "I'M BIG TIME" when all you are about is MCU vs The World. And that truly is very close-minded. But pretend again all other studios are misogynists and bigots. Let's remember that famous Tony Stark line:

 

Iron Man rape jokes didn't set you off (MCU blinders were on then). But someone says "Captain Marvel" and watch out world:

The Waterboy truly is the best characterization of your antics. And that's sad!

[Bosco685]

4 minutes ago, Oddball said:

You’re right, certain Marvel keys are better investments than gold. I have invested in both. 
Meanwhile, DC owns the top spots for most valuable comics ever printed. And highest price ever paid. 

But can you upgrade your SUV with that money? That's the key question.

[Bosco685]

38 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Yeah, a clown who does the Joker dance every time I sell yet another Marvel Silver Age key for like 5 times or more what I paid for it because Marvel is a better investment than gold.

Nov-2020: Detective Comics 27 CGC 7.0 - $1.5 million

Jun-2018: Action Comics 1 CGC 8.5 - $2,052,000

Aug-2014: Action Comics 1 CGC 9.0 - $3.2M

I hope one day the next Joker movie boosts these lagging sales. DC needs it!

[drotto]

1 hour ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Yeah, a clown who does the Joker dance every time I sell yet another Marvel Silver Age key for like 5 times or more what I paid for it because Marvel is a better investment than gold.

Yes, Marvel for the most part rules the Silver and Bronze age.  DC absolutely crushes the companies that evolved into Marvel in the Golden age. Batman and Superman will forever be the absolute single issue comic books champions.  I say this owning primarily Marvel books. The one thing that all of the top money books have in common.  They have significant value that has nothing to do with movie and TV projects.  Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, Wolverine, the Avengers, X-Men, etc. etc.  will continue to have and hold value well beyond when comics stop being the cornerstone of pop culture entertainment. 

 

I too own a certain Captain Marvel book.  While I am still up for what I paid for it, it was up 4 or 5 times what I paid for it at one point, now it sits at about twice what I paid for it.  Many of these mid to low level key books for C and D list characters are likely FOTM and I do not see them holding value long term.  They are only driven be what is coming out, they peak and then they fall back.  They generally do not fall all the way back, but they rarely hold their highs or continue going up once the property is released. Good for you for making money off them, by they are basically flips, not long term investments. 

[@therealsilvermane]

16 minutes ago, drotto said:

Yes, Marvel for the most part rules the Silver and Bronze age.  DC absolutely crushes the companies that evolved into Marvel in the Golden age. Batman and Superman will forever be the absolute single issue comic books champions.  I say this owning primarily Marvel books. The one thing that all of the top money books have in common.  They have significant value that has nothing to do with movie and TV projects.  Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, Wolverine, the Avengers, X-Men, etc. etc.  will continue to have and hold value well beyond when comics stop being the cornerstone of pop culture entertainment. 

 

I too own a certain Captain Marvel book.  While I am still up for what I paid for it, it was up 4 or 5 times what I paid for it at one point, now it sits at about twice what I paid for it.  Many of these mid to low level key books for C and D list characters are likely FOTM and I do not see them holding value long term.  They are only driven be what is coming out, they peak and then they fall back.  They generally do not fall all the way back, but they rarely hold their highs or continue going up once the property is released. Good for you for making money off them, by they are basically flips, not long term investments. 

X-Men 1 and Fantastic Four 1, however, didn't get out of their price slump and start to see the astronomical gains of the last few years until after Disney bought Fox. Tales of Suspense #39 was a relatively cheap book until Iron Man the movie changed the world. The MCU matters and, outside of cultural icons like Detective 27, Action 1, and AF 15, are the reason the comic book back issue market is on fire.

I only sold my certain Captain Marvel book because I have multiple copies and couldn't deny the price jump prior to the movie. Yes, it's down now and will surely go back up as we approach the sequel and as Carol Danvers takes her rightful place at the head of the MCU, but I think it goes beyond FOTM. Tales to Astonish #13 was a dollar bin book for a while, then GOTG hits and it's now up there with the 1st app of Ant-Man and is staying there. I think the difference with the MCU is that characters like Groot are becoming a permanent part of pop culture, a part of Disneyana. The Guardians of the Galaxy are now and forever a ride at Disney World. This isn't like the old days. Disney buying Marvel changed everything.

[@therealsilvermane]

1 hour ago, Bosco685 said:

Let's remember that famous Tony Stark line:

 

Iron Man rape jokes didn't set you off (MCU blinders were on then). But someone says "Captain Marvel" and watch out world

First, I didn't even know what Prima Nocte was then. Now I know it's a historical myth (never really occured or at least there's zero evidence of it) and a bogeyman for what could happen when one man gets too much power. But anyway...I think we can all agree that the character of Tony Stark began movie life as a mysoginist and a d*****bag. Every other scene in Iron Man 1 and 2 was, as Pepper Potts put it, almost a "very expensive sexual harassment lawsuit." It's probably why he was so popular with the dudes and it's probably a lot of the same dudes who attacked Captain Marvel for even thinking about taking Iron Man's place at the head of the MCU. Stark was funny as heck but the MCU will be better off without him and it's good they're moving on from him. It can actually grow now which is what we're witnessing with WandaVision and FWS.

[Bosco685]

1 minute ago, @therealsilvermane said:

First, I didn't even know what Prima Nocte was then. Now I know it's a historical myth (never really occured or at least there's zero evidence of it) and a bogeyman for what could happen when one man gets too much power. But anyway...I think we can all agree that the character of Tony Stark began movie life as a mysoginist and a d*****bag. Every other scene in Iron Man 1 and 2 was, as Pepper Potts put it, almost a "very expensive sexual harassment lawsuit." It's probably why he was so popular with the dudes and it's probably a lot of the same dudes who attacked Captain Marvel for even thinking about taking Iron Man's place at the head of the MCU. Stark was funny as heck but the MCU will be better off without him and it's good they're moving on from him. It can actually grow now which is what we're witnessing with WandaVision and FWS.

You have proof of this? Each person that had issues with Brie Larson's statements or concerns with Captain Marvel were concerned with her replacing Tony Stark?

Receipts please. Each one.

[@therealsilvermane]

41 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

You have proof of this? Each person that had issues with Brie Larson's statements or concerns with Captain Marvel were concerned with her replacing Tony Stark?

Receipts please. Each one.

The anti-Captain Marvel train began when the Carol Danvers version first appeared in Avenging Spider-Man #9 and was lumped in with the accusations that Marvel Comics was going "woke", Jane Foster Thor, gay Bobby Drake, etc. being other examples. When Carol Danvers Captain Marvel soon starred opposite Iron Man in Civil War II, the trolls accused Marvel Comics of forcing Captain Marvel into the A-status spotlight as part of that continued "wokeness". When Carol takes out Stark in the event story, that was the last straw. The misogynist Captain Marvel hate began long before Brie Larson was cast in the role. It's well documented on YouTube, Cosmic Book News, and other similar troll habitats.

Now, most people tend to think in groups. We're social creatures after all. Not everyone can be a free thinker like myself. I remember bros in my own life commenting that a reason they loved MCU Tony Stark Iron Man was he did whatever he wanted and got any girl he wanted and didn't care, a little like the James Bond effect. They liked him because he was both a hero and a bit of a misogynist. Many of these same bros, a few years later and out of nowhere, began to suddenly hate on Captain Marvel before the movie was out and when they had no idea who she was before and even before Brie Larson's Crystal Awards speech. A big part of that hate were the messages handed down by their thought leaders to hate her, and a big part of that message was that the character was going to come in and take over the Marvel Cinematic Universe (basically replace Tony Stark, just like she did in Civil War II) when she wasn't deserving of it. This is well documented on YouTube, Cosmic Book News, and other similar troll habitats.

Edited April 6, 2021 by @therealsilvermane

[Bosco685]

8 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

The anti-Captain Marvel train began when the Carol Danvers version first appeared in Avenging Spider-Man #9 when she was lumped in with accusations that Marvel was going "woke" along with Jane Foster Thor, gay Bobby Drake, etc. Then when Captain Marvel starred opposite Iron Man in Civil War II, the trolls accused Marvel Comics of forcing Captain Marvel into the A-status spotlight as part of that continued "wokeness". When Carol takes out Stark in the event story, that was the last straw. The mysoginist Captain Marvel hate began long before Brie Larson was cast in the role. It's well documented on YouTube, Cosmic Book News, and other similar troll habitats.

Now, most people tend to think in groups. We're social creatures after all. Not everyone can be a free thinker like myself. I remember bros in my own life commenting that a reason they loved MCU Tony Stark Iron Man was he did whatever he wanted and got any girl he wanted and didn't care, a little like the James Bond effect. They liked him because he was both a hero and a bit of a misogynist. Many of these same bros, a few years later and out of nowhere, began to suddenly hate on Captain Marvel before the movie was out and when they had no idea who she was before and even before Brie Larson's Crystal Awards speech. A big part of that hate were the messages handed down by their thought leaders to hate her, and a big part of that message was that the character was going to come in and take over the Marvel Cinematic Universe (basically replace Tony Stark, just like she did in Civil War II) when she wasn't deserving of it. This is well documented on YouTube, Cosmic Book News, and other similar troll habitats.

I don't focus on your hangout places. So you will know this better than me.

Meanwhile, painting the world in broad strokes to build out your warped picture of everyone not fanatical over Captain Marvel in comic books or the MCU is continuously unhealthy. As far as you being a 'free thinker' that's a stretch. As you have proven how biased your view is on the world, 'free thinker' is far from reality.

Naturally, there will always be those that dislike change. They will look for gender or race changes just to rattle their swords bad intent is coming. The great thing is they are not the majority or the world would be a much darker place. Adding to this by then taking an opposite extreme view and unjustly accusing others of misogyny or racial hate doesn't make things more relevant. It just just as disruptive and twisted to feed your social need to prove your opinions are more just and fair. Yet you fall into the trap of NOT achieving this level of focus. Look at how disruptive you became trying to accuse Henry Cavill of being a misogynist just to detract from his Superman role. So who do you think you are kidding? Other than yourself.

[drotto]

2 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

The anti-Captain Marvel train began when the Carol Danvers version first appeared in Avenging Spider-Man #9, and she was lumped in with accusations that Marvel was going "woke" with Jane Foster Thor and gay Bobby Drake etc. Then when Captain Marvel starred opposite Iron Man in Civil War II, the trolls accused Marvel of forcing Captain Marvel into the A-status spotlight as part of that continued wokeness. When Carol takes out Stark in the event story, that was the last straw. The mysoginist Captain Marvel hate began long before Brie Larson was cast in the role. It's well documented on YouTube, Cosmic Book News, and other similar troll habitats.

Now, most people tend to think in groups. We're social creatures after all. Not everyone can be a free thinker like myself. I remember bros in my own life commenting that a reason they loved MCU Tony Stark Iron Man was he did whatever he wanted and got any girl he wanted, a little like the James Bond effect. They liked him because he was both a hero and a bit of a misogynist. Many of these same bros, a few years later and out of nowhere, began to suddenly hate on Captain Marvel before the movie was out and when they had no idea who she was before and even before Brie Larson's Crystal Awards speech. A big part of that hate were the messages handed down by their thought leaders to hate her, and a big part of that message was that the character was going to come in and take over the Marvel Cinematic Universe (basically replace Tony Stark, just like she did in Civil War II) when she wasn't deserving of it. This is well documented on YouTube, Cosmic Book News, and other similar troll habitats.

I am not a fan of the current version of Carol, and as a long time comic reader going back at least 30 years, she was never a major player until about 6 years ago.  She was a fairly regular Avengers supporting cast member, granted, and she has been elevated more recently.  But again, coming from a comic standpoint, even after her elevation, she has not been able to sustain a solo book, and I think her series is on its 5th reboot, and about to be rebooted again.  Hold this up against characters like Iron Man, the X-Men, FF, Avengers, Thor, Captain America and many more, which have been published more or less continuously for 50 years, and she is not even close to as important from a sales perspective. That is a very thin history of comic success as compared to proven long term winners with very deep histories. You can't necessarily assign labels like misogamy to people not liking her character. People are allowed to like or not like the character. Even with the smaller sales of modern comics, her books numbers lag behind many other Marvel books, that is all the result of a vast conspiracy again CM and Brie Larson?  To me when I read Civil War 2, she came across as the villain of the story.

 

Her movie was fine, I rank it in the bottom third of MCU films.  That seems fairly consistent with many other fans.  For me, and I can only speak for myself, she was the least interesting character in her own movie. Moving forward that is a problem. Given these things, I do question if she is the right pick to lead the new MCU. I do think she is going to play a big role however.

 

I would argue that even Disney has seemed to pull back some as her being the new head of the MCU. CM2 has now morphed into much more of a team film, with Marvel heavily advertising other characters that will be in it.  Also it seems that they keep pushing projects like Dr. Strange 2, Anti-Man and Wasp, Guardians, Thor, and the streaming shows more heavily. There have also been some rumblings about how much of Larson's contract has been fulfilled at this time (it was rumored to be a 3 or 4 movie deal, but I could be wrong).  If that is true after CM2 she will have made the majority of her contracted appearances, and there has yet to be any large announcements about an extension.

[chezmtghut]

3 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

Let's remember that famous Tony Stark line

 

Iron Man rape jokes didn't set you off (MCU blinders were on then).

 

It's actually Prima Nocta & while it was a dumb move adding that line, it is part of history. They're making people aware of these things at any rate. There being truth to it wouldn't surprise me, as people hurting on others for their own amusement is nothing new. Just because it wasn't written into law, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Royalty has a history of being spoiled & getting what they want at the cost of others, including changing history books in their favor. What would the MCU history books look like if Ultron or Thanos beat the Avengers?

Edited April 6, 2021 by chezmtghut

[chezmtghut]

52 minutes ago, drotto said:

I am not a fan of the current version of Carol, and as a long time comic reader going back at least 30 years, she was never a major player until about 6 years ago.  She was a fairly regular Avengers supporting cast member, granted, and she has been elevated more recently.  But again, coming from a comic standpoint, even after her elevation, she has not been able to sustain a solo book, and I think her series is on its 5th reboot, and about to be rebooted again.  Hold this up against characters like Iron Man, the X-Men, FF, Avengers, Thor, Captain America and many more, which have been published more or less continuously for 50 years, and she is not even close to as important from a sales perspective. That is a very thin history of comic success as compared to proven long term winners with very deep histories. You can't necessarily assign labels like misogamy to people not liking her character. People are allowed to like or not like the character. Even with the smaller sales of modern comics, her books numbers lag behind many other Marvel books, that is all the result of a vast conspiracy again CM and Brie Larson?  To me when I read Civil War 2, she came across as the villain of the story.

 

Her movie was fine, I rank it in the bottom third of MCU films.  That seems fairly consistent with many other fans.  For me, and I can only speak for myself, she was the least interesting character in her own movie. Moving forward that is a problem. Given these things, I do question if she is the right pick to lead the new MCU. I do think she is going to play a big role however.

 

I would argue that even Disney has seemed to pull back some as her being the new head of the MCU. CM2 has now morphed into much more of a team film, with Marvel heavily advertising other characters that will be in it.  Also it seems that they keep pushing projects like Dr. Strange 2, Anti-Man and Wasp, Guardians, Thor, and the streaming shows more heavily. There have also been some rumblings about how much of Larson's contract has been fulfilled at this time (it was rumored to be a 3 or 4 movie deal, but I could be wrong).  If that is true after CM2 she will have made the majority of her contracted appearances, and there has yet to be any large announcements about an extension.

It seems that the new agenda is to make women appear more masculine & men more feminine. I think women are already strong, but there is more to strength than physical muscles. Tony Stark has shown that with his brain power & I feel they portrayed that well with Doctor Strange, Shuri & in WandaVision as well. I really hope we don't see a buff Jane Foster in Thor 4, as that would cheaper her being worthy to wield Mjolnir in my opinion.

Edited April 6, 2021 by chezmtghut

[Bosco685]

17 minutes ago, chezmtghut said:

It's actually Prima Nocta & while it was a dumb move adding that line, it is part of history. They're making people aware of these things at any rate. There being truth to it wouldn't surprise me, as people hurting on others for their own amusement is nothing new. Just because it wasn't written into law, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Royalty has a history of being spoiled & getting what they want at the cost of others, including changing history books in their favor. What would the MCU history books look like if Ultron or Thanos beat the Avengers?

Well since we are going to get completely accurate, 'jus primae noctis' (a right consummating a marriage granted to someone other than the bridegroom by the law or custom of some cultures).

For anyone to assume it never occurred in history, they need to go back and read some Medieval books and the noble class dominating people as serfs in a Feudalist society. I didn't realize until reading about it later in life people were treated as part of land when it was sold to other nobles or traded off. Supposedly not as bad as a slave, but less than a free man. Ugly!

 

[drotto]

3 minutes ago, chezmtghut said:

It seems that the new agenda is to make women appear more masculine & men more feminine. I think women are already strong, but there is more to strength than physical muscles. Tony Stark has shown that with his brain power & I feel they portrayed that well with Doctor Strange, Shuri & in WandaVision as well. I really hope we don't see a buff Jane Foster in Thor 4, as that would cheaper her being worthy to wield Mjolnir in my opinion.

The other thing about the MCU that people seem to ignore is Iron man was not expected to be the big break out character.  He was crass, rude, sexist, and an alcoholic.  He was everything that was not PC.  Captain was honorable, respectful, and wholesome.  I think CA was supposed to be the leader when the MCU was first mapped out, but Tony exploded in popularity, because of RDJ, and well it turns out the public likes to root for jerks sometimes. So the writers adjusted what they were doing based on the popularity of the characters. It just proves that sometimes you can not force who takes off, and sometimes you can not predict it.  Attempting to force CM as the main character of the MCU is not the way to make her popular.  You need to give the public good stories, and good characters, and then watch what happens. Once you see what gets traction you then make adjustments.