STAR WARS : Episode IX December 20, 2019 6 6

[Bosco685]

 

[fantastic_four]

27 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

 

It takes a special kind of hate to make less money overall than you took in on opening weekend.  I'm guessing that angry viewers demanding refunds accounts for that $4.1 million decrease in revenue overall on Last Jedi!  

No, it's a simple misprint--that $24.6 mil isn't a total, it's the amount it made after opening weekend.  So the actual total is $28.7 plus $24.6.

Just the fact that Iger is pulling Feige in tells me he knows what to do--it's time to get someone with vision in to helm the franchise.  My current hope is that Dave Filoni is that guy...he's certainly proved his worth with Clone Wars, Rebels, and The Mandalorian.  I'm not sure he actually wants to be an executive type like Feige, but I sure hope he does.    Realistically, my guess is that's not what he wants because creative people usually want to do creative stuff instead of sitting behind desks wearing suits.  Geoff Johns ultimately didn't want that with DC and is writing up a storm since he stepped down.

Edited December 20, 2019 by fantastic_four

[KEY ISSUES Comics]

7 hours ago, Rip said:

Still processing.

The good: C3P0 was great, Poe was good. Lando was fantastic. I think one of my sons teared up a bit. Emperor was cool. Dio was cool.

The bad: Very mixed, a massive amount of information tossed at me and it didn't seem to flow right. Not enough time to tell a proper story. Felt like some big editing and story gaps. Should have been 30 min longer and maybe a few less hoops. I understand the critics problems. Felt like they read message boards about the problems of the Last Jedi and was VERY overt on the fixes. (They are clearly listening, maybe a little too much at times)

Overall didn't hate it but felt a bit soulless. It really really tries to make everyone happy. I will watch it again to absorb things better.

Then the bad listed above makes it a bad movie. It's like ordering a pizza, then saying the crust was burned, the sauce was bland, the cheese was cold, etc. But I liked a piece of mushroom on it. Tell me, is that a good or bad pizza?

I think we've lost touch as a whole with what a "good" movie is (Not singling you out Rip by the way). We are conditioned to be unquestioningly brand loyal. It's as though we're afraid to dislike something with Star Wars or Spider-man in it. Heaven forbid we be critical! I LOVE Star Wars, or what once was Star Wars. This latest trilogy is just terrible. I could care less about the characters, the story and plot--what little there is--is mostly a rehash of the original trilogy. It's just fan service with a bunch of special effects. But that can be said about sooo many movies nowadays. Special effects should enhance a movie, not be the raison d'etre. 

Man, I sure do miss the old days before movies focused too much on F/X. However, the sheer quantity of quality of TV serials is astounding these days and ultimately makes up for Hollywood's downward spiral. I used to watch 3-5 movies/week, but my viewing habits have changed as TV/streaming sites have evolved and become the place to go for truly great content.

The Expanse anyone? 

[Bosco685]

25 minutes ago, KEY ISSUES Comics said:

The Expanse anyone? 

I only watched the first two episodes of this show. Would you recommend it?

[bane]

13 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

I only watched the first two episodes of this show. Would you recommend it?

How are you not watching the Expanse!!????? 

[Bosco685]

7 minutes ago, bane said:

How are you not watching the Expanse!!????? 

 

Okay then!

[paperheart]

‘Star Wars: Rise Of Skywalker’ Feels The Force Thursday Night With Around $44M+ – Early B.O. Read

https://deadline.com/2019/12/star-wars-rise-of-skywalker-opening-weekend-box-office-cats-bombshell-1202814594/

[drotto]

I will be seeing the movie tonight, but these are my thoughts heading in, not reviews on individual films, but how we got to where fans are right now.  I am calling it the nostalgia and fan service trap.

 

I will admit this, for a movie making company, is a massive temptation,  because the initial rewards can be massive, but it is also a minefield long term, and I think Star Wars has illustrated this perfectly.

 

Disney acquires and decides to make new Star Wars films, because who would not there is tons of money to be made.  They have a choice, do a fan service film, or attempt to break new ground in an existing IP.  The first option is by far the easier route, and from an initial return standpoint the safer route.  You just spent 4.5 billion, you want to recoup that quickly.   So Disney took the easy route, and man did it work.  But without knowing they set the trap.

 

TFA comes out and makes tons of money.  It is a massive fan service film, banking heavily on nostalgia, but does throw in a few new characters and bits.  It is easy to argue that Disney knowing made a thinly veiled remake of ANH, but the public ate it up.  The new stuff mainly gets lost and pushed aside by the old, the old stuff rules.  The movie is a success, but after a few months or a year, it does not have the staying power or impact of the original, because it is essentially a remake. Some fans begin to turn.

 

Ok time for movie two, and in retrospect what JJ set up was for Disney to essentially remake the original trilogy, so fans were expecting this movie to have many of the same beats and a similar structure to Empire, and in many ways it did.  Here, however, you get a director that decides to subvert expectations, for whatever reason.  Disney let's him, because Star Wars is on a roll, they do not forsee an issue.  So he takes a movie with the same beats as Empire then flips some main elements as almost the anti-Empire.  The film is also much lighter on fan service and nostalgia.  Disney has now, for some fans, crossed a line.  This is a more original film, it is a bolder take, but it pisses a lot of fans off, and the money goes down.  They are now caught in the trap.

 

So now time for the third film, and Disney is a very difficult spot. Do they push the harder more bold route and break from basically remaking the OT, or retreat to the original plan and make their version of ROTJ? The trap has now been sprung and no matter what, somebody is going to be upset. Disney decides to attempt the easier route again, and makes a nostalgia heavy, fan service heavy film.  They hope this is the right formula.

 

Is it? I don't know right now, I will know more in a few hours.  From reviews, leaks, and monetary projections, this film risks not doing as well.  It will make money, but what is success for Star Wars? It is not you average film or trilogy. I am also not sure the trap could have been avoided.  Long term making more original films that were 100% new but within the universe and honored the originals, may have been the better route. They would have stood on their own more, stood out, grown the story, and likely have had more staying power. The monetary return would have been lower initially, and was the riskier stratagy, but in the long term could strengthen the IP.  From a corporate standpoint however, you need to make money, and corporations by nature like to play it safe. So short term what Disney did was the right move. The new trilogy monetarily is a success,  but where does it leave the IP long term?

 

So in the end, I think fans unknowingly set the trap, and Disney unavoidably walked into it.

[theCapraAegagrus]

The problem with TLJ is not that it is "original". The problem is that it flat-out does nothing for any characters - old or new.

Luke gets peed on. Leia turns into Mary Poppins.

Rey is still Mary Sue. Ben is still angry about everything.

The entire plot of the movie is 'float in space, create an unnecessary mutiny and meaningless side quest' and then...? It answers nothing and sets-up even less. How or why did anyone think this would make for interesting cinema, let alone a good Star Wars title...?

[Rip]

1 hour ago, KEY ISSUES Comics said:

Then the bad listed above makes it a bad movie. It's like ordering a pizza, then saying the crust was burned, the sauce was bland, the cheese was cold, etc. But I liked a piece of mushroom on it. Tell me, is that a good or bad pizza?

I think we've lost touch as a whole with what a "good" movie is (Not singling you out Rip by the way). We are conditioned to be unquestioningly brand loyal. It's as though we're afraid to dislike something with Star Wars or Spider-man in it. Heaven forbid we be critical! I LOVE Star Wars, or what once was Star Wars. This latest trilogy is just terrible. I could care less about the characters, the story and plot--what little there is--is mostly a rehash of the original trilogy. It's just fan service with a bunch of special effects. But that can be said about sooo many movies nowadays. Special effects should enhance a movie, not be the raison d'etre. 

Man, I sure do miss the old days before movies focused too much on F/X. However, the sheer quantity of quality of TV serials is astounding these days and ultimately makes up for Hollywood's downward spiral. I used to watch 3-5 movies/week, but my viewing habits have changed as TV/streaming sites have evolved and become the place to go for truly great content.

The Expanse anyone? 

The movie has problems no doubt but I think unlike you I like some of the new characters and I am hoping Poe/ BB8 and Zorii  get a Disney plus series together.

I think Disney was/is in repair mode. I've seen some amazing stuff with the Mandalorian.  I'm hoping to see more of what happening on the small screen maybe some day on the big screen. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

Instead of setting up Purple Hair B to sacrifice her meaningless life for The Resistance, Poe could have had a meaningful moment (or Ackbar).

Instead of setting up some out-of-Knowhere relationship between n00b Rose and Fin, Fin could have sacrificed his life to help save his friends.

The characters setup in TFA, which was 50/50 old-and-new, didn't get their due. Instead, we get even more useless characters. Do something with the already-established characters that we're led to believe f^&*ing matter in this new trilogy.

Edited December 20, 2019 by theCapraAegagrus
Typo.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Instead of, "oh that was a cool visual moment" during the light-speed sacrifice (which in and of itself makes no damn sense), it could have had emotional depth with Poe dying. A guy who was portrayed as willing to do anything necessary to give his team hope. They sacrificed storytelling for really dumb moments that lack multiple-dimensional impact. There's no thick substance behind anything of TLJ. Either it's PC trash, or visually cool, or a verbal message. Nothing overlaps. It's paper-thin carp and we deserved better.

[Rip]

You might like this one in some ways then. It specifically calls out some of your problems. As if some scenes were written just for you. If you didn't like Rose you might also be happy.

Edited December 20, 2019 by Rip

[theCapraAegagrus]

Remember when Hulk snaps in Endgame, and you see Clint's wife calling, with that uplifting music? That scene had more depth than the entirety of TLJ. Barton's emotional reaction to his family being alive, the visually stunning brightness and optimism, and the score all combine to give you an absolute rise. It's then immediately torn down by Thanos' assault. Visual despair, emotional fear & curiosity, and the sound of war destroying everything.

[drotto]

Early reports are Thursday night was about 44 million.  By comparison, TFA was 57 million, and TLJ was 45 million.  

 

The movie if this holds and tracks similar to TLJ will hit that 170 to 200 million opening weekend mark, and if it performs similar to the TLJ (an assumption here) would finish below that movie's 1.3 billion in about the 1.2 billion range. That may adjust somewhat downward based on the weak China numbers, which could forshadow lower international numbers.

Edited December 20, 2019 by drotto

[adampasz]

2 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

I only watched the first two episodes of this show. Would you recommend it?

It's a great show, but I had a tough time getting into it. Took me about 2/3 of the first season. I think the acting is suspect in the early episodes (it gets better). Also, the Thomas Jane Blade Runner-lite storyline never engaged me.

[adampasz]

Rise of Skywalker - Non-Spoiler

I really enjoyed it. However, if you are expecting much beyond a classic movie serial romp, you will probably be disappointed.

[Krismusic]

3 hours ago, KEY ISSUES Comics said:

 

I think we've lost touch as a whole with what a "good" movie is (Not singling you out Rip by the way). We are conditioned to be unquestioningly brand loyal. It's as though we're afraid to dislike something with Star Wars or Spider-man in it. Heaven forbid we be critical! I LOVE Star Wars, or what once was Star Wars. This latest trilogy is just terrible. I could care less about the characters, the story and plot--what little there is--is mostly a rehash of the original trilogy. It's just fan service with a bunch of special effects. But that can be said about sooo many movies nowadays. Special effects should enhance a movie, not be the raison d'etre. 

Man, I sure do miss the old days before movies focused too much on F/X. However, the sheer quantity of quality of TV serials is astounding these days and ultimately makes up for Hollywood's downward spiral. I used to watch 3-5 movies/week, but my viewing habits have changed as TV/streaming sites have evolved and become the place to go for truly great content.

 

I agree with the story and plot being kind of a re-hash of the same trilogy.. 

Also I found recently that I have found better stories in TV content, than compared to movies.. I use to love Sat or Friday nights as around 8pm it would be movie night and take-out/pizza now its evolved into TV series nights but has changed to Sunday afternoons. 

[Krismusic]

11 hours ago, valiantman said:

We had some cheers at various times, but generally quiet for the size of the theater. I think the fact that it was the first showing meant that most of the crowd was "serious" fans with "serious" faces. 

I was at the fan event and there were only cheers to see nostalgia characters.. otherwise.. very quiet no cheering for story moments, either.. maybe everyone was very serious although everyone was debating about certain aspects after the movie, which I won't reveal, don't want to spoil anything. 

[Foley]

Saw it today.

Didn't like it.

Glad the sequel trilogy is over.