BLACK PANTHER 2 directed by Ryan Coogler (TBD) 8 8

[Murphman13]

Just got back from seeing it. Wow just wow! 4.5 out of 5 stars. All positive things others have said about it I concur. Namor’s origin didn’t really bother me as much as I thought it would. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 11/15/2022 at 7:27 PM, gadzukes said:

I think I would rather have had a recasting of BP than what they did.  I like Shuri but I want my BP to be a man.

For me, it has less to do with BP being a man, and more to do with the fact that T'Challa's story abruptly ended. Add in the fact that Shuri is not convincing as a warrior.

[F For Fake]

Saw the movie this weekend. Like most Marvel movies, I thought it was fine. I will say, I had a bit of cognitive dissonance with the tone shift, as the movie tries to reconcile paying tribute to a very real person (who died in a very real and terribly sad way) with also having a big silly action movie about a war against blue fish people. It's a hard job, and I think it was handled about as well as it could be. Still, I'm not sure how appropriate any of it is, and if it wouldn't have been best to just not make the movie at all. Of course, with the $$$ at stake in box office and merchandising, that was never really going to be an option, so I think it was handled with about as much class as could be hoped. There's no question that all involved were trying to be as respectful as possible. 

My only real complaint is the length, which was only exacerbated by the 20-30 minutes of trailers that preceded the film. The ads started at 12:10, and we got out of the theater at 3:15. That's just a bit much.

Otherwise, I liked Namor quite a bit, and would have liked to have seen more action. The big fight at the end was pretty epic, and made me sad as I would have really loved to have seen Boseman's BP in that battle against Namor. The character who ends up taking that mantle is not exactly an imposing presence. Still, good fight.

Speaking of filling out a suit, holy carp, Lupita Nyong'o in a wetsuit. Lord have mercy. Also, how is Angela Bassett almost 30 years older than most of her costars, and still the most beautiful lady in the picture? Damn. What a lady. The movie is chockablock with killer kickass babes, and that's never a bad thing in my estimation.

Most superhero movies go in one ear and out the other, so the real barometer of success, for me, is whether or not I'd ever watch the movie again. In this instance, yeah, I'll probably watch it again when it hits Disney +. 

 

[F For Fake]

On 11/16/2022 at 8:46 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

For me, it has less to do with BP being a man, and more to do with the fact that T'Challa's story abruptly ended. Add in the fact that Shuri is not convincing as a warrior.

That's really my only gripe with Shuri being BP: the physicality. I know the powers come from a magical herb or whatever, so the physique shouldn't matter, but man, Shuri looks like a breadstick in that suit, ready to be snapped in half. That's why I was pulling for Nakia to end up in the suit, because that's a lady that I'd believe could kick some .

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 11/16/2022 at 8:52 AM, F For Fake said:

That's really my only gripe with Shuri being BP: the physicality. I know the powers come from a magical herb or whatever, so the physique shouldn't matter, but man, Shuri looks like a breadstick in that suit, ready to be snapped in half. That's why I was pulling for Nakia to end up in the suit, because that's a lady that I'd believe could kick some .

I would have wanted Okoye to be the Black Panther. Separate the BP from the crown, again, as it was before T'Chaka died. Okoye is one of Wakanda's fiercest warriors, and if any female in the land deserves the rank I think it's her.

[F For Fake]

On 11/16/2022 at 8:56 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

I would have wanted Okoye to be the Black Panther. Separate the BP from the crown, again, as it was before T'Chaka died. Okoye is one of Wakanda's fiercest warriors, and if any female in the land deserves the rank I think it's her.

I would have been fine with that, and it would have made sense to me as well, but I guess I felt like they were building up Nakia to be something, and it didn't really pay off beyond being 

Spoiler

the mother of T'Challa's son.

 

[topofthetotem]

I saw it and I liked it.

 

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 11/16/2022 at 8:58 AM, F For Fake said:

I would have been fine with that, and it would have made sense to me as well, but I guess I felt like they were building up Nakia to be something, and it didn't really pay off beyond being 

  Reveal hidden contents

the mother of T'Challa's son.

 

Nakia is the weirdest character. She's played narrative-ly as some anchor to T'Challa, but she's relegated to nothing other than basic love interest, it seems. Like, they fleshed-out Pepper Potts a good bit, I think, considering her screen time in some movies. They went the opposite direction with Nakia.

Marvel is struggling with legacy. Passing of the mantle to familiar characters feels off. Passing of the mantle to new characters feels off. Why Falcon, Riri, and Shuri when we have Bucky, Harley Keener (could recast), and Okoye?

[gadzukes]

On 11/16/2022 at 8:58 AM, F For Fake said:

I would have been fine with that, and it would have made sense to me as well, but I guess I felt like they were building up Nakia to be something, and it didn't really pay off beyond being 

  Reveal hidden contents

the mother of T'Challa's son.

 

I didn't buy....

Spoiler

Nakia being able to infiltrate Telocan in spy mode to find Shuri and Riri. 

It's one thing to do a spy mission where you can blend in with other humans, maybe capture one and force them to tell you where a prisoner is, etc... but in this instance Nakia was truly a stranger in a strange land.  There's simply no way she could sneak into where the prisoners were being held.

And then they got out of there so fast and back to the surface..... aren't the "bends" a real thing anymore? Namor made a big speech to Shuri that her body would be crushed at the bottom of the ocean without that suit.

Edited November 16, 2022 by gadzukes

[gadzukes]

On 11/16/2022 at 8:46 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Shuri is not convincing as a warrior.

This

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/16/2022 at 11:50 AM, gadzukes said:

I didn't buy....N'akia infiltrating Telocan.

N'akia never infiltrated Telocan. She infiltrated an underwater cave about a hundred feet or so beneath the surface. 

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/16/2022 at 9:08 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Nakia is the weirdest character. She's played narrative-ly as some anchor to T'Challa, but she's relegated to nothing other than basic love interest, it seems. Like, they fleshed-out Pepper Potts a good bit, I think, considering her screen time in some movies. They went the opposite direction with Nakia.

N'akia is much more than that. In two films, she saves Wakanda, as M'Baku states. She operates as an X-factor who is not tied down to tradition. She follows her own path, allowing her to do things that wouldn't be done under Wakandan tradition or international treaty, but what must be done.

This was most evident in the first film when she didn't care that Killmonger was king by ritual combat, but knew it was wrong and acted on it, stealing a heart shaped herb and rescuing Shuri and Ramonda.

[gadzukes]

On 11/16/2022 at 1:29 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

N'akia never infiltrated Telocan. She infiltrated an underwater cave about a hundred feet or so beneath the surface. 

Am I remembering this wrong?  I thought it was Telocan.  Of course it was a long movie so maybe I'm confused LOL

Edited November 16, 2022 by gadzukes

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/16/2022 at 3:08 PM, gadzukes said:

Am I remembering this wrong?  I thought it was Telocan.  Of course it was a long movie so maybe I'm confused LOL

You remembered wrong. Shuri and Riri  were housed by Namor in a cave close to the surface, that's why Ramonda was able to pinpoint her earrings location. When Shuri went with Namor to visit Telocan, she had to wear a deep submersible suit. She is then returned to the shallow cave with Riri, which is where they're rescued by N'akia.

[gadzukes]

On 11/16/2022 at 3:17 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

You remembered wrong. Shuri and Riri  were housed by Namor in a cave close to the surface, that's why Ramonda was able to pinpoint her earrings location. When Shuri went with Namor to visit Telocan, she had to wear a deep submersible suit. She is then returned to the shallow cave with Riri, which is where they're rescued by N'akia.

OK..... that makes more sense.  

[godzilla43]

Marvel should have made this a prequal. Here is my story for Wakanda Forever:
- WW2 is going on. More scenes with Cap and Howling Commandos
- Also scenes with the original Human Torch
- Then the war disturbs Talocan and Tenoch Huertas Sub-Mariner starts fighting against the Nazis
- Talocan ask help from the current Black Panther and Wakanda 
- Wakanda decides not to help and this leads to war against Talocan
- Wakanda wins
- In the end credits there is big homage to Chadwick Boseman
- Second end credits you see Tenoch Huertas Sub-Mariner as a homeless in some bad neighborhood
- Lastly the movie ends with Black Panther will return and Marvel recasts T'Challa

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/17/2022 at 1:39 AM, godzilla43 said:

Marvel should have made this a prequal. Here is my story for Wakanda Forever:
- WW2 is going on. More scenes with Cap and Howling Commandos
- Also scenes with the original Human Torch
- Then the war disturbs Talocan and Tenoch Huertas Sub-Mariner starts fighting against the Nazis
- Talocan ask help from the current Black Panther and Wakanda 
- Wakanda decides not to help and this leads to war against Talocan
- Wakanda wins
- In the end credits there is big homage to Chadwick Boseman
- Second end credits you see Tenoch Huertas Sub-Mariner as a homeless in some bad neighborhood
- Lastly the movie ends with Black Panther will return and Marvel recasts T'Challa

If this were a writer's circle, here are my questions for your pitch:

- What is the purpose of showing Cap and Human Torch? Do they meet Namor and make it an Invaders film? Or are they just part of the background, the setting?

- If this is a Black Panther movie, what is the narrative set-up for the current Black Panther? Is he a flat character in his own movie? Is he there just to defend Wakanda? What is his story arc?

- If war, is disturbing Talocan, why doesn't Namor also wage war against America and Britain? In turn, does Namor ask for Wakanda's help against both the Allies and the Axis powers? Most importantly, why does Namor need Wakanda's help? Are the primitive U-boats and surface warships too much for Namor and the Talocans? Does something happen that it becomes too much for him?

- Why would Namor and Talocan wage war against Wakanda when the Wakandans are not even doing anything against the underwater kingdom? What happened to the oceanic threats to Talocan caused by the warring American and European nations? Does Namor just forget about them?

- So far, this seems more like a Namor story, not a Black Panther story.

- Lastly, who do you imagine will play T'Chaka's dad? Does that make T'Chaka a baby boomer?

 

[Bosco685]

On 11/17/2022 at 7:22 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

If this were a writer's circle, here are my questions for your pitch:

Spoiler

- What is the purpose of showing Cap and Human Torch? Do they meet Namor and make it an Invaders film? Or are they just part of the background, the setting?

- If this is a Black Panther movie, what is the narrative set-up for the current Black Panther? Is he a flat character in his own movie? Is he there just to defend Wakanda? What is his story arc?

- If war, is disturbing Talocan, why doesn't Namor also wage war against America and Britain? In turn, does Namor ask for Wakanda's help against both the Allies and the Axis powers? Most importantly, why does Namor need Wakanda's help? Are the primitive U-boats and surface warships too much for Namor and the Talocans? Does something happen that it becomes too much for him?

- Why would Namor and Talocan wage war against Wakanda when the Wakandans are not even doing anything against the underwater kingdom? What happened to the oceanic threats to Talocan caused by the warring American and European nations? Does Namor just forget about them?

- So far, this seems more like a Namor story, not a Black Panther story.

- Lastly, who do you imagine will play T'Chaka's dad? Does that make T'Chaka a baby boomer?

 

Good point about having someone challenging back in the writers' room.

Although YouTube's Critical Drinker can be a snob of a -script critic, at times he hits on items missed in movies.

I know. 'Anti-Woke' - whatever that implies.

[godzilla43]

On 11/17/2022 at 2:22 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

 

- Lastly, who do you imagine will play T'Chaka's dad? Does that make T'Chaka a baby boomer?

 

I only wrote Black Panther so it could be T'Challas grandmother as that WW2 era Black Panther.

[Jaydogrules]

Ruh-roh.  Mid-week business has been below Love and Thunder so far.

Not what Disney was expecting or hoping for, I'm sure.  

-J.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Jaydogrules